Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Looked like a pretty clear mash-up of some of the defining traits of SFA3 (grooves) and KOF (3-on-3) to me.General Shank-a-snatch said:
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Street Fighter X Tekken PC Coming, Console Release Mar 6 [Like ME3/XCOM/Ghost Recon]
- Thread starter CountAntonius
- Start date
corporate cheerleader
Member
Sixfortyfive said:
I said that I didn't like the controls; the way everyone moves and how the hits don't really feel solid like other SF and KOF games. I have no problems with the Grooves and 3 vs. 3.
scytheavatar
Member
BamYouHaveAids said:
SC isn't not popular but it has been a small, significant community that probably is bigger than the Blazblue community by now. Considering how SC5 looks like a much better game than SC4 and Namco declaring their intention to make SC5 more tourney friendly I think there's a decent chance of the community making a comeback.
Raging Spaniard said:
He's a producer, not an executive producer. He's the one at the very top of the project chain and who is directly responsible for ensuring that everything falls into place. So if the game flops it'll be his fault for not ensuring that Tsukamoto and co do their job.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
scytheavatar said:
Yes, I know how Game Development works.
People are blaming Ono for "losing his mind" over features, that has really nothing to do with him or his job. Of course he bears responsibility, but people are thinking that hes the one coming up with shit.
Most Producers in big studios Ive dealt with had very little input and interaction with the game in question. Hell, most of them weren't even in the same state. I assume Capcom (or Japan in general) uses Producers in a different matter, but this idea that the should get all the hate/praise is ludicrous to me. Be informed, people.
As for the gem system. Originally I dislike it, but hey, if they were gonna try some crazy features in a fighting game, this is the right game to try them on. Impressions from playtests being negative dont mean much to me right now, SF IV had some pretty negative months as well and they havent really entered the polish stage yet. The way a game "feels" can be completely changed with small additions or subtractions.
Professor Beef
Banned
Explain, because they look pretty damn similar to me.kirblar said:
I really hope this is sarcasm.Masaki_ said:
scytheavatar
Member
Why SFxT is likely to suck in a nutshell.
CountAntonius
Member
I don't think gems will make a bad player beat a good player, just dislike the forced implementation and the complications it brings to the competitive scene.
Flying Wonkey
Member
scytheavatar said:
Page 19
CountAntonius
Member
At least with post launch DLC if the uproar continues after we know more about gems.Kimosabae said:
SolarPowered
Member
All I can see is fire as far as the eye can see.enzo_gt said:
Interficium
Banned
Professor Beef said:
There weren't any DLC or pre-order exclusive items in Brawl, genius.
You don't know this, especially because we dont know much about gems period right now. They've yet to even publicly showcase them in a build, what tangible thing is Seth supposed to comment on? Wait till UMvC3 is out before he begins focusing on SFxT and it's ever-changing appearance. All the other times he's demoed the game, he has emphasized the core mechanics are a work in progress. For all you know, minor changes thus far are a result of him reporting back to the devs as he does frequently.Masaki_ said:
Seth is important because he's a special advisor for a reason, and that's because he is the voice of reason from the west talking to Japan. He's had his influences in the past, but the dev team does listen to him.
Even when Seth is selling a game, he's pretty damn honest about what he says compared to the typical PR person your painting him as.
Interesting.Masaki_ said:
Might wanna remove that if you find it so sensitive because any GAFer could read it/put it out there, but I really don't think it's damaging at all or super secretive because of the lack of hard proof.
These were my assumptions about the game anyways really. I've expressed my distaste for their "throw shit at the wall until it sticks" approach for SFxT. No refinement at all, and with the March release I hope they get their shit into gear soon to hone the mechanics a bit. There is a juicy amount of content and production value in this game, it just seems mismanaged.
"God's Beard!"
Member
You can create crazy new systems while adding to the gameplay, lowering the learning curve and deepening the tournament level play, but it's not my fault if they can't figure out how.
That said, I'm actually disappointed in how weak gems are. The MVC3 cards are much cooler.
That said, I'm actually disappointed in how weak gems are. The MVC3 cards are much cooler.
No way, Capcom will surely be able to balance hundreds of gems because they've been able to balance lesser things so well in the past, amirite?Tizoc said:
The MvC3 cards are way better because they are Mahvel'd up and add to the lunacy of gameplay, and fit very, VERY well in the context of the franchise.God's Bears said:
SFxT seems to be nobley attempting to pretty much add stat modifiers to their tried and true formula for 2D fighters, respects for that, but they seem to be completely blinded by the need to add more more more into this game and now it's a clusterfuck and they've got an overcomplicated game on their hands with a widely negative reception to it all even before gems have been demoed. Difference being SFxT has all these other bullshit mechanics they put in for the sake of being in first and foremost, and then they try to find the gameplay uses and do the balancing afterwards. (I.e. Add hundreds of gems then decide they will mostly be variants of the same few modifiers anyways, pandora in it's entirety.) The competitive scene is now shaking their head at this overcomplicated party game in front of them.
AZ Greg
Member
Even though we kinda knew already, from the SFxT FB page:
"Who's ready for Halloween? Street Fighter's Vega and Tekken's King stay ready. You have to respect the commitment."
Also, regarding gems, hopefully there's a gem that nullifies all other gems. Would solve the issue quite nicely!
"Who's ready for Halloween? Street Fighter's Vega and Tekken's King stay ready. You have to respect the commitment."
Also, regarding gems, hopefully there's a gem that nullifies all other gems. Would solve the issue quite nicely!
Professor Beef
Banned
Whoosh.Interficium said:
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
imo, there are 2 fundamental arguments going on here, instead of 1 big one.
Argument 1:
Are people in favor of the specific Gem system that is going to be implemented into SFxTekken.
Argument 2:
Are people fundamentally against a GEM/perk like system (whatever label you want to throw on it in n a fighting game, or more specifically a SF fighting game.
____________
To argument 1:
There are 2 groups arguing a point, but with different points of information. The side that is saying this sucks in it's current implementation have additional info beyond what is officially known and has been presented to the public.
That said, even the people with the additional info don't have the full picture in my opinion, as they don't know what all the Gems are, what they do specifically and their activation requirements, and how the UI for the Gems is set up. Add in a well, as nobody has the full game, with all the characters. This is a new game, with new characters, new systems, new play styles. Who knows how all this things combined with the Gems will come together and what kind of an ecosystem this will create.
From just looking at what is officially known, I am still holding a wait and see attitude on how the ecosystem of this games comes together.
IMO, people complain about devs not trying something new, then when they try something kinda new, it's getting shit on when it is not even done yet.
Plus we don't how the Gems are even implemented in the UI. Maybe there are 5 slots, but not all 100+ gems are available for each slot.
Maybe slot one is only for a certain type of "Gem class", so on slot one, there is a menu with like 25 gems, then you move the cursor to slot 2, and there is a set of 25 gems to select from. Just hopefully however it is structured, it is smooth and smart (I know, I know, capcom UI design, lulz, but there is hope).
BUT, you know, things could go wrong. It could all be shitty, the Gem UI you could be crap, or everything is horribly balanced. But I saw let the community hash it out and judge it after it is out in the wild and people have time in the lab and people are playing ranked matches and going to tournies.
What is a non-capcom dev made a fighting game with Gems? Would be praise it for taking chances and shit on Capcom for being stale?
This is a nice chance for Capcom to try something new. There are doing it with a NEW series of games. A fresh slate to throw things at the wall to see what sticks. Is that a bad thing? IDK, not really. Throw away, lets see what sticks. Patch it up, and keep it moving and improve and build on it.
____________
To argument 2:
Are you guys open to a perk/gem like system in ANY fighting game at all? Are people just against it in Capcom games?
If anybody else besides Capcom did this, would you feel any different. What if SNK did it?
How would you want one implemented?
I personally don't mind if it adds to the gameplay options. I don't think it's too much to keep track off.
I mean, people got all crazy when they added super meters back in the day, like what is all this crap. We are used to it now
My whole thing is, I want to wait until a near final build, with all available Gems in it, with final Gem selection UI in it, and detailed explanations of what these Gems do.
Let this loose in the wild for a few months, then judge from there.
I mean, people are comparing it to CFJ, but that thing at least got an SBO slot and FFA tournies, before it was declared shit.
Sorry for the wall of text, hehe.
Argument 1:
Are people in favor of the specific Gem system that is going to be implemented into SFxTekken.
Argument 2:
Are people fundamentally against a GEM/perk like system (whatever label you want to throw on it in n a fighting game, or more specifically a SF fighting game.
____________
To argument 1:
There are 2 groups arguing a point, but with different points of information. The side that is saying this sucks in it's current implementation have additional info beyond what is officially known and has been presented to the public.
That said, even the people with the additional info don't have the full picture in my opinion, as they don't know what all the Gems are, what they do specifically and their activation requirements, and how the UI for the Gems is set up. Add in a well, as nobody has the full game, with all the characters. This is a new game, with new characters, new systems, new play styles. Who knows how all this things combined with the Gems will come together and what kind of an ecosystem this will create.
From just looking at what is officially known, I am still holding a wait and see attitude on how the ecosystem of this games comes together.
IMO, people complain about devs not trying something new, then when they try something kinda new, it's getting shit on when it is not even done yet.
Plus we don't how the Gems are even implemented in the UI. Maybe there are 5 slots, but not all 100+ gems are available for each slot.
Maybe slot one is only for a certain type of "Gem class", so on slot one, there is a menu with like 25 gems, then you move the cursor to slot 2, and there is a set of 25 gems to select from. Just hopefully however it is structured, it is smooth and smart (I know, I know, capcom UI design, lulz, but there is hope).
BUT, you know, things could go wrong. It could all be shitty, the Gem UI you could be crap, or everything is horribly balanced. But I saw let the community hash it out and judge it after it is out in the wild and people have time in the lab and people are playing ranked matches and going to tournies.
What is a non-capcom dev made a fighting game with Gems? Would be praise it for taking chances and shit on Capcom for being stale?
This is a nice chance for Capcom to try something new. There are doing it with a NEW series of games. A fresh slate to throw things at the wall to see what sticks. Is that a bad thing? IDK, not really. Throw away, lets see what sticks. Patch it up, and keep it moving and improve and build on it.
____________
To argument 2:
Are you guys open to a perk/gem like system in ANY fighting game at all? Are people just against it in Capcom games?
If anybody else besides Capcom did this, would you feel any different. What if SNK did it?
How would you want one implemented?
I personally don't mind if it adds to the gameplay options. I don't think it's too much to keep track off.
I mean, people got all crazy when they added super meters back in the day, like what is all this crap. We are used to it now
My whole thing is, I want to wait until a near final build, with all available Gems in it, with final Gem selection UI in it, and detailed explanations of what these Gems do.
Let this loose in the wild for a few months, then judge from there.
I mean, people are comparing it to CFJ, but that thing at least got an SBO slot and FFA tournies, before it was declared shit.
Sorry for the wall of text, hehe.
CountAntonius
Member
I think the reasoning behind gems are pretty obvious.ThatCrazyGuy said:
DLC money,
Entry barrier.
Flashy new mechanic.
None of those address past problems and will make the game any better.
I am a huge supporter of Capcom but this just seems like the wrong direction to take their fighting games and for the wrong reasons. I really hope the rest of their fighters don't follow suit. Comparing it to supers is a bit off base since supers weren't sold as DLC.
Yeah I'll definitely wait and see before I make a final decision but I will voice my opinions and fears till then for that is the point of a discussion board.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
CountAntonius said:
I wasn't suggesting not discussing the system, we should all vent our opinions.
I was comparing to supers, in the respect that it was a new mechanic (a flashy one at that) that introduced something to the genre and people were leery of at first.
As for your 3 points.
I personally don't care if it's flashy per say. Supers are flashy, parries are flashy, team hypers are flashy, CC combos are flashy, Dark Forces are flashy. These are selling points to get people in the door. Hey, look at this cool new thing.
Entry barrier. Could be a bad or good thing. I want to see how these "helper" gems play out in a real match. If they are too much, then ban them. Nobody used those easy beginner modes in tournys in early VS games and in Alpha 1.
As for DLC money. I chalk them up to the current economic realities of the industry. Hopefully the DLC Gems are not too harmful to the core gameplay. Maybe it will just be cosmetic stuffs (everybody loves buying hats it seems).
People buy characters in LOL it seems (though that whole thing works out different), and that competitiveness seems stable (maybe it doesn't though, idk, I don't play LOL or the other games in that genre really).
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
grrrr, thats not the point at allThatCrazyGuy said:
People are not mad because of something new (Technically, its the first time even Capcom has done it in a fighting game)
Its what it is(or look like) and how it is implemented.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
~Devil Trigger~ said:
Umm, that wasn't the point of my post. That sentence was in relation to people just hating on it blindly without really thinking about it and callings Gems scrubby and comparing it to Smash Bros and calling that scrubby.
I understand if you didn't want to read my wall of text, but I commented on concerns that are specifically connected to SFxTekken's implementation of a Gem system. I'll go again...
What are people's main concerns it seems? From reading here, SRK, EH..
#1 - With so many Gems, the game will be unbalanced. There will be a uber Gem or something that will throw everything into chaos. People hate the auto-block Gem.
Well to this I say, Capcom will just have to balance the game. There have been overpowered characters in other games we play and love. It would now it be so egregious and outrageous to have a slightly overpowered Gem than a slightly overpowered character? We work around things before. I don't see why we would have to throw the baby out with the bath water.
I don't see how it is worse. I mean, if there is Gem that gives you unlimited Super Bar, then yea, that is dumb shit, and ban it. We don't know what all the Gems do yet. From what is known, I don't know how a damage multiplier with activation conditions that creates meta situations is going to be so bad. From what I see, they only add 12% either way and have time limits on them? But, there will be 100+ gems, so there could be some over top ones. I can't wait for the full reveal of them all.
I do have concerns on how the Auto-block Gem will work out in a real game. Maybe make it eat 2 meters, hehe. IDK.
#2 - DLC Gems and Pre-order Gems will be over-powered, creating a situation where you are buying wins, or something to that effect.
This is a concern. I hope Capcom realizes that selling an overpowered Gem would do more harm than good. For the pre-order, I don't what these Gems will do. I hope they are inconsequential ones (say cosmetic stuff), and the ones that come on the disc are the main ones. I also hope they become available for DLC later on.
I think buying a Gem (or a even a specific Gem already on the disc), giving you a free win is exaggerating. You still have to hit opponent and open them up.
#3 - How the Gem system will affect tournaments logistically. Will TO's have to unlock for every station, they have to buy every DLC Gem, will it take forever to cycle through the Gem menus, etc..
For this one, I think we have to see the Gem menu. I want to see how the Gems are categorized in the menus and how the layout is. Maybe the Gems are structured unto groups depending on type, so it will be easier to select them (as opposed to a huge list of a 100 that you have to scroll down).
Hopefully they improve the button config screen, to save time along with Gem selection.
I think my main point is, I don't think EVO or people should be banning anything until we see it play out in real world environments. Worry, speculation, and all of that is fine. But imo, I don't think bans should be happening and all of that. Why let our fears stomp something out before it has a chance to breathe?
I think the best stress test of a game system is it being in high level play, where it is all about the win, and how people will take advantage of the system for that end.
But what I think would be a cool thing to discuss is what we think the Gems will be and what Gems we would want. We have character speculation, let's have Gem speculation!
Maybe there will be a Gem that lets you build meter a little bit fast, like Iron Fist's deal in UMVC3. But maybe you have to land a 5 hit combo to activate it then it is active for 7 seconds.
the_log_ride
Member
Jesus Christ, I'm behind on the SFxT developments. I remember when the game was earlier on in development, and it was said there wouldn't be some crazy comeback mechanic.
scytheavatar
Member
ThatCrazyGuy said:
I am a lot more concern about the reverse: with so many gems, they will make the gems completely useless and the gems will be a stupid gimmick distracting Ono from how weak the gameplay of SFxT is at the moment. When you think about it a lot of the proposed gems just don't make sense: why should I get a power up for landing 5 normals? Or getting hit by 2 specials?
If the gems are supposed to be the main reason for buying SFxT, that game will suck hardcore.
SUPARSTARX
Member
The gems are basically Capcom's way of saying, "Here, go balance the game yourselves"
.la1n
Member
Okay after going through this entire thread and semi getting a hang of all the new information it seems that some of the concerns are well justified. I hope that this turns out well because I had really high hopes for it. The last time I got to do some hands on was quite a few builds back but I enjoyed it.
Professor Beef
Banned
Are people still considering the auto-block gem the end of days?
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Professor Beef said:
It drains your gauge (3 hots and its done), so I dont see how itll be a game breaker