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Tabata Talks Final Fantasy XV Story Imbalances and the Teams Unconventional Decision
- Thread starter Koozek
- Start date
Really? You can do that for a lot of FF characters too. However, I again say that Luna was pivotal to the story.
in KG, she risked her life to bring the ring out of the city. She's the one waking the Astrals so Noctis would be strong enough to fight against the Empire. She continues to correspond to Noctis in a way that gave him hope that his future wasn't a complete mess. She's healing the sick. And she proves to be key to Ardyn's twisted plan: Her death accelerates the Starscourge and completely unhinges Noctis
There's enough there alone to show her importance to the story. She would definitely benefit from her own DLC or even 30 or so minutes of added cutscenes just around her.
Tabata was a bad director going into this. 3rd Birthdsy and Type-0 are absolute trash. Crisis Core was ten years ago.
I think most of us can agree on this. I enjoyed FFXV and was genuinely surprised by the combat system...but Tabata (and his story team) needs to stay away from the next FF story.
XV promising story concept was pretty much destroyed by the worst storytelling I've witnessed in a long while. Key plot points are revealed out of order and often in the dumbest way. Important characters are not given the proper screen time to form a connection with the player. The actions of the people in XV are often de-synced with the events happening around the world (i've never felt any true sense of an occupation, much less the aftermath of a brutal war).
But really it boils down to this: Telling a story purely from the protagonist's viewpoint is nothing new and definitely can work...i just don't think Tabata understands what it means or more importantly, have the capability to do so.
Autoignition
Member
I'm not talking about other FF characters, though. I'm talking about Luna. (Though you're right, there are plenty of extra characters in FF that don't need to be there.) I'm also not talking about Kingsglaive; I'm just talking about the game. Were the events of Kingsglaive actually showcased and played out in the game, I would agree with you, but they're not, so this is meaningless.
If you scrubbed the Oracle from the lore, you could just give the Lucian bloodline the power to
speak with the Astrals
healing the sick
her death accelerating the Starscourge
The only thing I would concede on is that she helps give Noct focus in the latter half of the game, but I honestly feel like that role would've been better played out by the guys. By the end of the game, we still don't fully understand what Luna and Noctis's relationship is like. We don't really know why she's so important to him or what her presence means for him. The rest of the party are his best friends. They're always there for him, and they want nothing more than for him to be king. Noct relies on them for everything and trusts them with his life. That role of picking him up and urging him forward should've fallen to them. Take Luna out of the game, and the narrative is immediately tighter and more concise.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I don't believe this for a second.
This is right up there with "FFXIII was inspired by the linearity of CoD" as something they thought up late in the process and told themselves to justify the fact that they were cutting corners left and right.
This is right up there with "FFXIII was inspired by the linearity of CoD" as something they thought up late in the process and told themselves to justify the fact that they were cutting corners left and right.
ShockingAlberto
Member
It seems like it would be better to not respond to the criticism than to respond like this.
They're not actually excusing themselves.That would've been tolerable.
They're actually spinning this into something along the lines "we tried something so revolutionary. We are making our own incredible story telling rules"
Rather than admitting short comings, they're lecturing devs on how to tell stories in games.Its disturbing.
This franchise is pretty much done for.
royox
Member
In what way 13's story was a nonsense? It was the story of a group of people chosen by a god to destroy their own people. The whole game tells the struggle each one of them has. They are forced to choose between saving themselves or saving their people. You see how each one of them break apart till they find some inner peace when they start searching for "another way". It was amazing...but you had to read a lot of the codex lol.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Been kinda out of the loop on FFXV; not gonna start until all the patches come out at this rate. Just what about it is so disappointing? I've heard the characters (the main gang that is) have good dynamics, but that the story is somehow even worse than XIII's? Does the gameplay not hold up?
Mr. Pointy
Member
So they purposefully made it wrong? As a joke?
McMoneyman
Member
Yeah I have to agree with you there.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Tabby-san is the Wimp Lo of Squeenix.
"If you have a beloved story to tell I'll ruin it!"
Irishonion
Member
The gameplay is fine.
The story is just bits here and there with no direction whatsoever.
MissDeviling
Member
royox
Member
The story/lore is great. The problem is the way the game tells you (or tries to) a lot of major plot points.
Imagine you are playing a game you have been waiting for 10 years. 10 years of E3 and GamesCo trailers. And then you are playing it KNOWING there will be a point where the story will blow your mind and a big revelation will happen....aaaand that "big revelation" is found in some misable sheets of paper scattered on the most horrible and boring section of the game and other big things are never explained because of reasons.
That's FFXV. The story had the potential to be one of the best ever told in the FF franchise and they fucked up in the way of telling it.
ScherzoPrime
Member
Is the whole Leviathan thing from the trailers cut?
Autoignition
Member
Most of the gameplay parts of it are, yeah. It got watered down into a "Hold O to win" encounter.
Did you play 13? You sound like you didn't play 13.
Nah, there's ways to make it coherent. It's not like this is some huge novel conept. Many games, books movies ect. never cut away from the main character.
FFXV isn't coherent because the story is told badly. Not because of it's structure.
Holy cow the way the story is formed makes SO much sense now.... why don't more developers tell the story from their protagonists point of view? Without additional "stuffing" and "filler" ?
I don't know how
and neither does Noctis and I am fine with that. It makes more sense this way.
I don't know how
Ignis went blind
Of course it's easy for him to try and retrofit an explanation of the unconventional (read: poor) way that XV's story unfolded, but I really have a hard time believing it's anything but that; a made-up reason why it was so spotty.
edit:
Well he could've just, y'know, asked? If Tabata really wanted to just make things from Noctis' viewpoint, they could've at least made him less incompetent with comprehension of things like the aforementioned.
edit:
Well he could've just, y'know, asked? If Tabata really wanted to just make things from Noctis' viewpoint, they could've at least made him less incompetent with comprehension of things like the aforementioned.
Yabberwocky
Member
The birth of a new Final Fantasy meme. After "HD towns are too hard." it's now: "We made the story shitty on purpose!"
Oh, man, I wish I could go back to high school and use the 'didn't want to create a comprehensive and perfectly balanced story' response when I messed up with creative writing assignment - or any assignment, really. It was intentional, sir, I swear!
theofficefan99
Junior Member
I mean this is obviously just an excuse because it doesn't make sense. Like another poster said, an interview with Tabata is like an interview with Kellyann Conway.
Tabata: "the story wasn't bad, it was intentionally alternative-good."
Tabata: "the story wasn't bad, it was intentionally alternative-good."
LiquidSolid
Member
Yeah, when I finished the game and realised this, I suggested they adopt a more western approach to development by having two directors: A game director handling the game design and a creative director handling the story and performances. I think that's how you get around Tabata's very obvious flaws.
I dunno if I'd say it's fine. It's fun but it turns into a complete mess in tight spaces, against groups of enemies, against larger enemies (the adamantoise is the worst battle I've ever had in FF) and whenever you fight underneath trees.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
So basically around 90% of the fights. Because the camera and lock-on are a joke.
Plus the very odd decision to have these long-ass animations that cannot be cancelled. Makes using the two-handed swords unbearable.
Noctis finding on a newspaper doesn't bother me.
As I understand, Regis knew for some time the city was going to fall, so he devised a plan for Noctis to be far from the city when it happened. This way, Noctis would be kept alive and would have a head-start on finding the weapons.
Nobody of rank contacted Noctis, simply, because it was ordered by the king not to do so. They needed the future king as far away from danger until he got stronger.
In a sense, you could say that Noctis was played by the King.
The 3 companions were probably hand-picked by Regis, from all of Noctis' acquaintances, as the more fitting to take care of the future king in his journey. This would also explain why they were so little surprised with all of the happenings. They had a rough idea of what was going on. Their mission was to keep Noctis moving.
Noctis realizes all of this by the time he first meets with Cor for the first time. This is why he's mostly angry.in that scene. He knows Regis played him by now.
Now, when they first find out, they decide to return to the city, but are blocked by the Empire. The only explanation I can think of is, that they wanted Noctis to see with his own eyes that "looking back" was of no use at this point.
As I understand, Regis knew for some time the city was going to fall, so he devised a plan for Noctis to be far from the city when it happened. This way, Noctis would be kept alive and would have a head-start on finding the weapons.
Nobody of rank contacted Noctis, simply, because it was ordered by the king not to do so. They needed the future king as far away from danger until he got stronger.
In a sense, you could say that Noctis was played by the King.
The 3 companions were probably hand-picked by Regis, from all of Noctis' acquaintances, as the more fitting to take care of the future king in his journey. This would also explain why they were so little surprised with all of the happenings. They had a rough idea of what was going on. Their mission was to keep Noctis moving.
Noctis realizes all of this by the time he first meets with Cor for the first time. This is why he's mostly angry.in that scene. He knows Regis played him by now.
Now, when they first find out, they decide to return to the city, but are blocked by the Empire. The only explanation I can think of is, that they wanted Noctis to see with his own eyes that "looking back" was of no use at this point.
I havent seen Kingsglaive and I'm early in the game.
Donniewahlberg
Banned
I mean okay, sure. Tabata's still out there selling his game, that by all accounts has sold quite well, so he's not going to say much otherwise. If that's totally true too, that it was purely his choice, then fair enough on owning it honestly. That said, I'm not sure insisting it was a total creative choice to deliver the story as they did in order to prioritise the characters - when as a character driven story it doesn't work too well - is the best move.
At least finishing FFXV I was able to say fuck this game has some serious problems, but so did the entire project and these guys had to come in after years of difficulty and rewrite the story, the characters, rework the game design. They inherited baggage, a budget and time limit, and basically had to do what they did to get the game out at all. At least next time they will be totally free of all that given they did actually turn this into a success story financially, and with a technology base in place they can build a much better experience in 3-4 years. His claim basically invalidates that hope though, by reinforcing that this is literally what he wants, similar to the talk to how it was always the plan to pace the game as such that came up as a thread yesterday. Well, okay man, you might have wanted this stuff and chose to present the game, story and characters as is out of pure choice, but that just kind of makes me feel he's a terrible director and no reason to think he would make some hideous choices next time too.
Time will tell I guess, and as I mentioned at the top, he is still out there selling a product, I really hope he doesn't actually believe this shit and knows that regardless of these justifications, it doesn't change what the end experience for a lot of users were.
At least finishing FFXV I was able to say fuck this game has some serious problems, but so did the entire project and these guys had to come in after years of difficulty and rewrite the story, the characters, rework the game design. They inherited baggage, a budget and time limit, and basically had to do what they did to get the game out at all. At least next time they will be totally free of all that given they did actually turn this into a success story financially, and with a technology base in place they can build a much better experience in 3-4 years. His claim basically invalidates that hope though, by reinforcing that this is literally what he wants, similar to the talk to how it was always the plan to pace the game as such that came up as a thread yesterday. Well, okay man, you might have wanted this stuff and chose to present the game, story and characters as is out of pure choice, but that just kind of makes me feel he's a terrible director and no reason to think he would make some hideous choices next time too.
Time will tell I guess, and as I mentioned at the top, he is still out there selling a product, I really hope he doesn't actually believe this shit and knows that regardless of these justifications, it doesn't change what the end experience for a lot of users were.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
There are moments I can actually believe and see this line of thinking, like Regus's death being found in a newspaper on the train. But as a whole, I don't buy it one bit. There are moments of it I buy but not the whole thing.
encephalon
Member
FFXV lacks a basic sequence of events leading the story from one plot point to the next. If the focus is on the perspective of main characters, then what is it that they are experiencing?
Probably one of the most incompetently written rpgs in a long time.
Hell I am not even convinced this game had a writer per se. Just a collection of people jamming half finished ideas together.
Why on earth would you hide great swaths of your games story in external material?
I guess the answer is money, but did that shitty Kingsglaive movie really make that much money?
Like playing the game all you know is that Regis is Noctis' father and he is a King.
Then 5 minutes later you find out he died in some epic battle or something.
Like why should we care?!
We saw the character for 5 mins then he died.
Hell I am not even convinced this game had a writer per se. Just a collection of people jamming half finished ideas together.
Why on earth would you hide great swaths of your games story in external material?
I guess the answer is money, but did that shitty Kingsglaive movie really make that much money?
Like playing the game all you know is that Regis is Noctis' father and he is a King.
Then 5 minutes later you find out he died in some epic battle or something.
Like why should we care?!
We saw the character for 5 mins then he died.
The story was disjointed but I still loved it. I also love the theories being Ifrit and Eos explaining why Ifrit turned against the other summons. This may even play into Noctis being partially immortal setting up a sequel as he may be part Astral. Wild theory, but many parts make sense.
The invasion was cut because time/money. Tabata mentioned it would've taken another year or w/e to build in a pre-release interview.
Otherwise, I'm not really sure why this is surprising to anyone. Games like The Third Birthday, Crisis Core and FF: Type-0 already proved this guy has nfi how to tell a story.
Devilinthiscity
Member
I'm sure they got a lot of complaints about the story in that survey they put out. I agree that the smart thing to do would be to not say anything at all though. Also, announcing that cup of noodle hat thing sure isn't helping these statements. I'm surprised they didn't sell an upgraded coleman camp set as DLC.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Funny thing: Why would Tabata be apologizing after his game was generally very well received by press and public alike?
The game builds up to the "gag" with the
at the end. The reaction to that is what justifies the way the story is constructed.
Not to say that the game or the story-telling is flawless; but in a broad sense it works extremely well at building identification with Noctis and his bro's, so the climax of the story actually means something emotionally, and isn't just empty spectacle.
The game builds up to the "gag" with the
photograph
Not to say that the game or the story-telling is flawless; but in a broad sense it works extremely well at building identification with Noctis and his bro's, so the climax of the story actually means something emotionally, and isn't just empty spectacle.
Disagree Guy
Member
Completely agree.
He's trying to spin the best he can out of a glitter covered dog shit that is FF15
Now the added insult of Cup Noodle DLC.....