Unknown One
Member
Is the Tales studio owned by Namco or is it locked by contract for several years?
Namco is one of the worst publishers this generation.
Namco is one of the worst publishers this generation.
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Tales Studio is in trouble
- Thread starter Bel Marduk
- Start date
thetechkid said:
Didn't think I worded it weird but then I probably did.
I find it hard to care if they are in trouble because I didn't like either ToS or ToV on Gamecube or X360. Though I wanted to give the series one more shot to win me with Graces but it never came out here so I couldn't do it.
I never know when a game franchise will click with me, more so for RPGS. Like I really dislike most of FF IV and I think VI is the most unfun and boring game in the franchise yet I gave a few more games a chance and now FF is my favorite series going.
Rahxephon91
Banned
Pac mantrinest said:
Tekken
Soul Calibur
Gundam
Ace Combat
The Idolmaster
Ridge Racer
Xenosaga
Dead to Rights
Katamari Damacy
Klona
Time Crisis
....
I don't think Tales is their really big one.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
trinest said:
Soul Calibur. Not sure why they aren't pimping that and instead turn to friggin Ninja Theory of all companies.
Rahxephon91
Banned
The only one that's not really active is Xenosaga. All others have appeared this generation.trinest said:
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Rahxephon91
Banned
I think the orginal plan was for 6 installments, but the low sales made them cut it to three. I think chances of a new one are unlikely and monilth soft has moved on to other games(Xenoblade, Soma Bringer). But I really don't know anything about the actual development of the Xeno games. I'm sure someone else could fill in the blanks. Three though, is the conclusion of the series. Though Kos-Mos(pretty much the front lady for the games) makes regular cameos in other Namco games.ULTROS! said:
And while Tekken 6 may have not done that great, the arcade version I think still brings in good profit in Japan. I think Bloodline Rebellion was one of the most played arcade fighting games over there. There will be a Tekken 7 no doubt.
Crakatak187 said:
Namco owns the company.
Y2Kev said:
I read it but I have little knowledge of how this stuff works (or if this has even been a downwards trend for the company), so I don't think it'd be proper to make some big post about their eventual doom.
But it seems the thread's changed from their financial condition to another thread where people take the opportunity to chastise Namco for how they've been managing the series worldwide...
graywolf323
Member
eh that's because Namco are idiots and don't bring some of the best games over to America to sell
ZealousD said:
And then there's the double whammy of platform schizofrenia AND poor overseas: Tales games that are ONLY relased in either the US or Europe. European fans never got to play Tales of the Abyss and Tales of Legendia because Namco didn't bother to release them over here. On the other hand, Tales of Eternia for the PSP was only released in Europe.
Hours Left
Member
Namco Bandai only has themselves to blame for this. Maybe if they would actually release & market the Tales games outside of Japan then they wouldn't be in this situation.
It's not hard to see why Namco Bandai USA has such a dubious reputation. It's difficult to give you my money Namco, when you don't release anything.
It's not hard to see why Namco Bandai USA has such a dubious reputation. It's difficult to give you my money Namco, when you don't release anything.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
I always thought Tales was pretty huge in Japan, but it looks like the series is finally taking a hit even there.Rahxephon91 said:
I think they're getting sick of the formula.
And seeing your list of Namco games, no wonder they're struggling. A lot of those have been pretty bad. I think Tekken and SoulCalibur are like the only viable franchises in the west. Gundam always seem to sell though, even though it's always the same stuff.
God Eater did pretty well in Japan for a new IP.
They really need to examine there current status and figure things out quick. It definitely doesn't look good if they're relying on Enslaved to be their next big IP! *eyes roll*
TheFLYINGManga_Ka said:
Well, at least is IS a new IP. I was looking at the games Namco has released so far for the PS3 and 360. The only two new IPs on that list were Idolmaster and Eternal Sonata. Everything else was a sequel or part of a series.
Many of Namco's IPs are getting very stale by now. You won't get fresh gameplay and any new experiences anymore when when you get to number six or seven in a series. That won't stop Namco however. One of their new games for the 3DS was yet another Ridge Racer game. I bet that when the next console generation appears in 2012 Namco puts all their dev teams on Tekken 8, Ace Combat 7, Ridge Racer 8, Soul Calibur 5, a Katamari game and a Time Crisis game.
In my view more games like Enslaved is exactly what Namco should be doing if they want to keep selling games.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Yeah, Tekken 7 was already announced right? But at least it sells for them. And Ridge Racer is more like a tradition than a series. They always seem to bring one out for every major system's launch. So to me, RR doesn't really count as milking. I don't know why they do that though.ymmv said:
By the way, the 3DS Ridge Racer looks exactly like the PSP game. I bet it's going to be a port...but in 3D!
TheFLYINGManga_Ka said:
No, it's the platform problem. Recently, their best sales for the series have been on the PSP. And yet these are spin-off titles. You have a serious problem when your spin-offs sell better than your flagship titles.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Yeah, I guess I can see that.ZealousD said:
But I did mention that it was a big mistake by making Tales of Vesperia a timed-exclusive on the 360. Actually, they didn't even say it was timed-exclusive. I remember them insisting that it was exclusive and never coming to the PS3. It even says on my box, "Only on XBOX 360."
A lot of Japanese Tales fans probably bought a 360 just for this game. It did sell a lot at one point. And than they probably felt betrayed when they announced the PS3 version with extra content. I'm sure it pissed people off. It pissed me off.
The reason why I said they may be sick of the formula is because of Tales of Graces poor sales. I remember reading in another thread that Graces didn't sell well. Which is why I assumed they're getting tired of the formula because I would think the game would do well based on the large Wii user base.
But the bottom line is, we all know Namco Bandai is screwing up big time in this gen. It sucks to see that the Tales team is in trouble and it really sucks that we may never get Graces or Vesperia on the PS3.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
It's kind of concerning since Famitsu is saying it's the best Tales game since the Abyss, which implies that Graces is better than Vesperia.ZealousD said:
I know Famitsu has had some questionable credibility lately, but it's still worth noting.
Yup, we have at least one.TheFLYINGManga_Ka said:
I am glad I got the PS3 version of Vesperia. Back to play Abyss!
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Yeah. I saw that before.Netto-kun said:
And I wish I can read and write Japanese. Than I'll be playing Vesperia on my PS3 too.
I doubt it that it would've done better as a PS3 game. They spread their titles on too many platforms early on. It wouldn't have done well on either home console because the fan base is spread between the consoles.ZealousD said:
You either release your games on multiple platforms or you put all of your main titles on a single platform (or 1 home console, 1 handheld).
I bought Symphonia at a whim. There wasn't much to play that summer and I didn't order it but a local importer brought 1 extra copy and called me, asking if I'm interested. I fell in love with the game and it caused me to buy Abyss, Legendia and Eternia because I already had a (modded) PS2 and a PSP. I bought a 360 mainly with a Tales game in mind (and I remember being accused of being a troll by some gaffers when I asked what else there was for the 360 :lol) and now the franchise is also on the Wii with a main title. What exactly does Namco expect from me? To buy every console there is so I could play their games?
I like the Tales series, but it's not a system seller for me. If I have the platform, it's a definite buy, if not, c'est la vie.
I love Namco but it is run by people who don't know what it means to be a fan of a franchise. Don't play with your fan base or you will lose said fan base. If Namco made an announcement next gen saying that X franchise is going to be on Y platform, it would help them a lot.
Rahxephon91
Banned
I would love for the PS3 version to come out here as the new additions would give me a reason to play the game again. I honestly don't really like Vesperia that much ,but I played it off and on between a couple of months so I feel like I didn't absorb the game the way I wanted to. I don't think I gave it enough attention honestly. I can't really be bothered to play the game again on xbox ,but if the port came here I would eventually buy it and feel the need to play it.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Namco-Bandai-Square-Enix.Shard said:
It'll eventually happen at the rate they're going! :lol
And soon we'll see Atlus-NIS. Seems like a good marriage. I sometimes get the two mixed up!
Pureauthor
Member
The Tales series has been spectacularly mismanaged in almost every conceivable sense. Which is a real shame, since it's a really solid jRPG franchise.
WickedLaharl
Member
NB seems like such a crazy company. they won't localize a few tales games but they will push some shitty new action game at us and a cruddy looking splatterhouse remake.
It really hurts. Tales of Vesperia was my second tales game (First being Tales of Phantasia SNES) and I was really looking forward to what they could do from there. Hopefully the studio isn't having too much difficulty and Namco will eventually release the games over here someday.
Maybe all the people like me who bought Symphonia and felt that they got burned decided not to keep buying Tales games?
I skipped all the Tales games that came after Symphonia, except Vesperia, because I was so annoyed by Symphonia. I would've skipped Vesperia if not for an Amazon sale and the overwhelming positive word of mouth. Although honestly I still feel mislead. I'm not sure how many hours I've put in but I'm still waiting for it to be something more than a remix of all the previous Tales games. Only thing missing is a sub plot about racism!
I skipped all the Tales games that came after Symphonia, except Vesperia, because I was so annoyed by Symphonia. I would've skipped Vesperia if not for an Amazon sale and the overwhelming positive word of mouth. Although honestly I still feel mislead. I'm not sure how many hours I've put in but I'm still waiting for it to be something more than a remix of all the previous Tales games. Only thing missing is a sub plot about racism!
Rahxephon91
Banned
Its still kind of in there.bluemax said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Oh, I did. Let me translate for those not familiar with financial terms and Japanese. It says: "Y2Kev puts ketchup on his steak".Y2Kev said:
:O
Tales Studio is wholly owned by Bandai Namco since last year. The previous company housing the developer, Telenet Japan, sold off the first 60% of the developer for 700 million yen in 2003 and the remaining 34% for 668 million yen in 2006 (before going bankrupt in 2007). That seems rather little money, but its operating expenses being constant may well have been the far bigger liability. Since the developer always had been a part of a bigger parent company it doesn't have any notable assets of its own. Furthermore it doesn't act independently and as such has no own income stream, instead it develops everything for Namco Bandai Games Inc. while getting financed by its parent company. The lack of Tales games released by other publishers may well be due to this lack of independence.Crakatak187 said:
Considering all this I think Tales Studio making losses is little more than a case of balance sheet manipulation common at bigger companies with a network of wholly owned subsidiaries. Accounting them there, at NBGI or at Namco Bandai Holding Inc. makes little factual difference in the end, but allows it to tweak the impression on investors. Possibly Tales Studio's debtor is even its own parent company. That all is hard to tell without having all data. Selling off or closing Tales Studio doesn't depend on this one balance sheet, Bandai Namco could do either at any point without needing a reason.
More notable is that with currently 124 employees employment at Tales Studio is at the lowest point since 2004, and that the board for the first time since its existence consists of only the two studio heads (Kiyoshi Nagai and Eiji Kikuchi) as directors instead the usual half a dozen NBGI people of the years before, with only the president position still claimed by NBGI (Shigeru Yokoyama).
FateBreaker
Member
Pureauthor said:
It's true. There are so many missed opportunities outside of Japan that it's honestly inconceivable.
Prime crotch
Banned
I would, if I could understand what's it saying; I know how to read a balance sheet, or should to, but it's all gibberish aside from the numbersY2Kev said:
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
This is the internet; you'd be lucky if most users even correctly read the thread title to jump to conclusions with.Y2Kev said:
The only thing stupider than Namco's management & fiscal decisions is fans trying to argue that Namco's finances would somehow improve by them localizing more games guarenteed to bomb and lose money.Rpgmonkey said:
Let's do this right:
Dead IPs
(No Current Or Foreseeable Output)
Arcade through Current
Mappy
Sky Kid
Dig Dug (/Mr Driller)
Pole Position
Druaga
Rolling Thunder
Ordyne
Baten Kaitos
Xenosaga
Dragon Spirit
Active IPs
(Current-Gen Console Iteration)
Pre-NES
Pac man
Galaga
SNES/Gen/TG16
Tales Of
Splatterhouse
PS1
Tekken
Soul Calibur
Ace Combat
Ridge Racer
Klonoa
Time Crisis
PS2/XBox/GC
Dead to Rights
Katamari Damacy
Taiko Drum Master
"Current" Gen
The Idolmaster
-------------------
This is a list of every Namco IP that we could probably ever call relevant, broken down by "Generation" of origin and activity status.
Looking at it like this, the problem is immediately apparent.
- Even by the broadest definition possible, they haven't really created anything relevant and "new" in the IP world in about a decade. And, frankly, most of those that they have are fairly underwhelming or overexposed regardless.
- Their biggest wave of relevance is getting pretty dated. PS1-era games are not cutting it in the marketplace almost universally these days.
- Their dead franchise list is skeletal at this point. Nothing there seems ripe for revival.
When it comes to the home market, it's basically start from scratch or bust.
At essence, Namco was always an arcade company first and foremost. Beyond their RPGs, and a few oddballs like Katamari and Klonoa, everything on that list is arcade in origin.
The problem is, of course, that the arcade market is shrinking and becoming less relevant. Suddenly Namco has very little to "bring home," and they've never established a strategy or corporate profile to do anything else.
At this point, they can either continue to milk out their PS1-era hits for another few years as they have been doing, or face a drastic change in the way that they do business.
My prediction?
Namco will always have a place in the hearts of the gaming-faithful, but frankly, I think they're pretty much done as a notable publisher. From what I've seen in the last few years of their attempts to appeal to the modern gamer, they squarely do not understand where the market has gone.
Dead IPs
(No Current Or Foreseeable Output)
Arcade through Current
Mappy
Sky Kid
Dig Dug (/Mr Driller)
Pole Position
Druaga
Rolling Thunder
Ordyne
Baten Kaitos
Xenosaga
Dragon Spirit
Active IPs
(Current-Gen Console Iteration)
Pre-NES
Pac man
Galaga
SNES/Gen/TG16
Tales Of
Splatterhouse
PS1
Tekken
Soul Calibur
Ace Combat
Ridge Racer
Klonoa
Time Crisis
PS2/XBox/GC
Dead to Rights
Katamari Damacy
Taiko Drum Master
"Current" Gen
The Idolmaster
-------------------
This is a list of every Namco IP that we could probably ever call relevant, broken down by "Generation" of origin and activity status.
Looking at it like this, the problem is immediately apparent.
- Even by the broadest definition possible, they haven't really created anything relevant and "new" in the IP world in about a decade. And, frankly, most of those that they have are fairly underwhelming or overexposed regardless.
- Their biggest wave of relevance is getting pretty dated. PS1-era games are not cutting it in the marketplace almost universally these days.
- Their dead franchise list is skeletal at this point. Nothing there seems ripe for revival.
When it comes to the home market, it's basically start from scratch or bust.
At essence, Namco was always an arcade company first and foremost. Beyond their RPGs, and a few oddballs like Katamari and Klonoa, everything on that list is arcade in origin.
The problem is, of course, that the arcade market is shrinking and becoming less relevant. Suddenly Namco has very little to "bring home," and they've never established a strategy or corporate profile to do anything else.
At this point, they can either continue to milk out their PS1-era hits for another few years as they have been doing, or face a drastic change in the way that they do business.
My prediction?
Namco will always have a place in the hearts of the gaming-faithful, but frankly, I think they're pretty much done as a notable publisher. From what I've seen in the last few years of their attempts to appeal to the modern gamer, they squarely do not understand where the market has gone.
It's in Japanese.Y2Kev said:
MightyHedgehog
Member
Tales of Pac-Land could be cool. There hasn't been a Pac-themed RPG, has there?
Perhaps when Namco begins to slide further into financial trouble (which I think is a given at this point) they will consider selling off the Tales studio to a publisher who could handle them properly. For us fans, that might be the best thing that could happen to our beloved Tales games.
At this point, almost anybody else could do a better job with Tales than Namco has done with it.
Slightly OT but is there supposed to be another Tales game announcement at some point this year? Another HD Tales would be awesome even if I don't have any hope that it would ever be localized.
At this point, almost anybody else could do a better job with Tales than Namco has done with it.
Slightly OT but is there supposed to be another Tales game announcement at some point this year? Another HD Tales would be awesome even if I don't have any hope that it would ever be localized.
grandjedi6 said:
Atlus manages to survive as a publisher despite the fact that their business is completely reliant on niche products, many of which sell even less than the Tales games.
And nearly every single SMT game is brought over.