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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED

Weevilone

Member
I wish I could define it better. Essentially, the image on the C6 has a bit of grain and a yellowish/greyish hue, neither of which I could see on the E6. I think iit was caused predominantly by being able to see the ABL kicking in. Of course, that was comparing retail displays which is never the best comparison anyway. I will try to get a shot tonight that shows it up.

I tried Tomb Raider and The Last Of Us this morning, and one thing that struck me was how I had to turn the brightness way up on the in-game menus to be able to see anything in the dark, which I'd previously cranked way down on my old TV. Two very different panels.

Thanks everyone. I'm hooking up my Samsung UE55HU8500 one more time tonight to get a good comparison again, and then I'll decid for sure. If I do go Samsung it'll be odd, though, as I've had an OLED phone for years, love it, and have always wanted an OLED tv. I just don't think I'm really feeling *this* particular model. Maybe in 2-3 years...

There is no way you are ever going to get your eyes to adjust to the new display if you keep running them side-by-side. That's a bad idea. I have 2 different tablets and if I view them alone they both look great. If I view them together, they both look terrible, as one looks yellow and one looks blue when I see whites. They are just different color temperatures, but they bias my eyes and neither looks good.

Your settings are far from reference so it's tough to assist you. It's also difficult to make judgments using photos of a screen, which we then view on our LCD monitors. That being said, the Batman pic you posted looks far from flat or dull as you mentioned.
 

holygeesus

Banned
I don't really know what to recommend to you wiped really - you are choosing to use settings that people are telling you are bad and then complaining your set looks bad. It seems you don't really want to make it look any good for some reason. I think you are best to take it back.
 

Wiped89

Member
Your settings are far from reference so it's tough to assist you. It's also difficult to make judgments using photos of a screen, which we then view on our LCD monitors. That being said, the Batman pic you posted looks far from flat or dull as you mentioned.

Yeah all are fair points. Yes the Batman image looks great, but my camera seems to add brightness - it looks just like that but about 30% dimmer IRL. I can't quite adjust to the lower brightness and ABL yet.

To the poster above, my settings are pretty close to what has been suggested for me through this thread now.
I'll stop spamming here and make my mind up now. Thanks guys.
 

DieH@rd

Banned

4f3a2dfe634192ed48c065fede5b4387.jpg
 

Paragon

Member
Go big or go home.
Not everyone is American.
46" was the perfect size to use as a monitor too, since that is 96 PPI at 4K.
I think my current Sony TV from 2010 was the last time you could buy a flagship below 55".

That is on the TV's built in Netflix, so signal doesn't come into it.
I would assume that the TV doesn't give you a levels option for built-in apps, but it wouldn't hurt to try.
If it's not that, it could be a bug with the app or perhaps even that specific video, if only some are affected.
Either way something is clearly wrong with the OLED picture, and it's not intentional.

Perhaps you're right; looking at that Pan's shot, it's almost 1:1. Perhaps I'm in a serious re-adjustment phase, having spent years looking at a souped up, brightened Samsung picture to make up for the LED's flaws, and now 'accurate' looks dull to me.
The color grading for the movie seems like the intent was to make it have an "old photograph" look, since it's set in the '40s.
It's definitely not supposed to look bright and vivid.

I have also got some HDMI problems, last night I got a crazy green and black light show when I tried to play a regular bluray, and then had to restart multiple times to get the signal to show up. This has happened multiple times now, so Curry's has agreed to a return. It has faulty HDMIs for sure.
Have you tried other cables?

My key problem now is: do I go for the same OLED again, knowing that I'm irritated by the ABL, or go for the 65" Samsung KS8000 at the same price, and risk hating the colours/blacks? I'm not sure now.
Well if you're coming from an older Samsung LCD, moving to a newer Samsung LCD is probably going to be an improvement either way.
If you hate the ABL, you aren't going to hate it any less over time.
If anything, I found the ABL on displays which had them to be more annoying the longer I spent with that TV.
 

Wiped89

Member
I would assume that the TV doesn't give you a levels option for built-in apps, but it wouldn't hurt to try.
If it's not that, it could be a bug with the app or perhaps even that specific video, if only some are affected.
Either way something is clearly wrong with the OLED picture, and it's not intentional.

The color grading for the movie seems like the intent was to make it have an "old photograph" look, since it's set in the '40s.
It's definitely not supposed to look bright and vivid.

Have you tried other cables?

Well if you're coming from an older Samsung LCD, moving to a newer Samsung LCD is probably going to be an improvement either way.
If you hate the ABL, you aren't going to hate it any less over time.
If anything, I found the ABL on displays which had them to be more annoying the longer I spent with that TV.

I think you're right on most of these points. Yes, I've tried other cables, although these cables are the 4K high speed cables I've been using on my old 4K TV for quite some time, so should be fine.

I agree. I'm 90% sure I'm going to swap for the 65" Samsung tomorrow. If all else fails, it's newer and bigger. Safe choice. Real shame I'll lose 3D though. Maybe next time, OLED.
 

Yawnny

Member
I agree. I'm 90% sure I'm going to swap for the 65" Samsung tomorrow. If all else fails, it's newer and bigger. Safe choice.

Let us know what your thoughts are when you get your Samsung .

I hope it works out for ya and looking forward to your impressions!
 
Just why? Why no small size screens this year? Not even 49 inches which would be affordable and fit for small spaces.

It's easier to make money out of bigger screen sizes, it gets harder to get various models out there with different sizes, because in the end it gets all too close with price tags if there are too many models.

One thing for sure is the X90 and XE93 is making the Q7 look really shite.
 

Weevilone

Member
I think you're right on most of these points. Yes, I've tried other cables, although these cables are the 4K high speed cables I've been using on my old 4K TV for quite some time, so should be fine.

I agree. I'm 90% sure I'm going to swap for the 65" Samsung tomorrow. If all else fails, it's newer and bigger. Safe choice. Real shame I'll lose 3D though. Maybe next time, OLED.

I wouldn't trust any HDMI cables for 4k unless they have the Premium Certified logo. There are far too many out there that won't carry the full bandwidth. Your issue is classic cabling symptoms. There are still tons of people fighting cables in the Oppo 203 thread on AVS.

Edit: Can't get my image embed from Dropbox going.

Regarding ABL, I don't have any issues with it at all. I think most people won't if they aren't trying to turn an OLED into an LED based LCD.
 

Modoru

Member
So I'm not 100% certain where to post this, so here goes:

It's my understanding that last year's models start getting clearanced out in April, is there any veracity to this? I have a semi limited budget but if I can fight my way to a discounted 2016 tv, I'll do it, lol.

Moreso, what sort of discount/models should I expect to find? I used to be totally fine with a Hisense 43H7C2, but I had to move and couldn't bring it with me, so I figured I'd take this chance to upgrade.
 

Weevilone

Member
So I'm not 100% certain where to post this, so here goes:

It's my understanding that last year's models start getting clearanced out in April, is there any veracity to this? I have a semi limited budget but if I can fight my way to a discounted 2016 tv, I'll do it, lol.

Moreso, what sort of discount/models should I expect to find? I used to be totally fine with a Hisense 43H7C2, but I had to move and couldn't bring it with me, so I figured I'd take this chance to upgrade.

They have been doing clearance sales on last year's sets for a while now, since last fall.
 

Madness

Member
Just why? Why no small size screens this year? Not even 49 inches which would be affordable and fit for small spaces.

What do you mean? The X900E comes in 49" this year and is probably the best you could get at that size. Smaller sizes are increasingly niche. They still have the 40-43" sizes for people who really can't fit anything, but 55" is the new standard size and cannibalizes 49" sales. I think eventually they may do 46" again and just merge 43" and 49" etc. These days even 65" which was unheard of for mass market size is increasingly sold. I have one and I truly feel I could fit a 75" if I needed to.

Crazy thing about this is that the X930E has around 25 ms of input lag with HDR. Seems all manufacturers realized how important it was.
 

Wiped89

Member
I wouldn't trust any HDMI cables for 4k unless they have the Premium Certified logo. There are far too many out there that won't carry the full bandwidth. Your issue is classic cabling symptoms. There are still tons of people fighting cables in the Oppo 203 thread on AVS.

Edit: Can't get my image embed from Dropbox going.

Regarding ABL, I don't have any issues with it at all. I think most people won't if they aren't trying to turn an OLED into an LED based LCD.

That is surprising... but I was using these cables to run 4K Bluray into my old TV. I would assume they're also fine for HDR? Am I wrong?
 

hitgirl

Member
The Sony KD-55XE9305 returned different lag times depending on whether the incoming signal was 1080p or 2160p. With a HD Linker device upscaling the 1080p output from our Leo Bodnar tester to 4K, input lag measured 25ms (which is very responsive) in both SDR and HDR modes. However, sending a 1080p video signal to the TV bumped input lag up by one frame to 42ms, presumably due to the set's internal upconversion.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/kd55xe9305-201703274446.htm

Wow, add this to the myriad of reasons why I still don't reccomend a 4K TV purchase. I'm happy to see a 4k input lag of 25ms though.
 

Weevilone

Member
That is surprising... but I was using these cables to run 4K Bluray into my old TV. I would assume they're also fine for HDR? Am I wrong?

There are many different combinations of resolution, refresh rate, color depth, etc. They all use varying bandwidth. It's been a huge issue for many people. It could be that the current display/source combination is more finicky about this, or it could be that for whatever reason you're using more bandwidth.

I don't know that this is absolute gospel in terms of permitted combos but it's a good representation. I know I can pass 4K 4:2:0 from my Oppo to my display and it works fine, despite not being part of the official HDMI spec.

HDMI_data_rates.png


There are people with $200+ cables that aren't certified and are failing at the boundaries of today's tech.
 
There are many different combinations of resolution, refresh rate, color depth, etc. They all use varying bandwidth. It's been a huge issue for many people. It could be that the current display/source combination is more finicky about this, or it could be that for whatever reason you're using more bandwidth.

I don't know that this is absolute gospel in terms of permitted combos but it's a good representation. I know I can pass 4K 4:2:0 from my Oppo to my display and it works fine, despite not being part of the official HDMI spec.

HDMI_data_rates.png


There are people with $200+ cables that aren't certified and are failing at the boundaries of today's tech.

The whole cable thing is insane, I'm using an 10 year old HDMI cable that cost me $100, and to my amazement runs 4K 60hz HDR! But I have some new cables that wont do it for shit, but my point being that there are ancient cables that were never even specc'd for 4K 60 2.0a that work, so it seems it purely comes down to the kind of quality the cables are made at.
 

Weevilone

Member
The whole cable thing is insane, I'm using an 10 year old HDMI cable that cost me $100, and to my amazement runs 4K 60hz HDR! But I have some new cables that wont do it for shit, but my point being that there are ancient cables that were never even specc'd for 4K 60 2.0a that work, so it seems it purely comes down to the kind of quality the cables are made at.

Unfortunately there are also brand new cables that are advertised as being compatible (but aren't certified) and they don't work, regardless of price and (apparent) quality. Of course some/many that aren't certified work great.

Certification is just what it sounds like, just an external layer of testing that -should- ensure that you're good to go. If you already have cables, by all means test them. But if you have issues then swapping in a cheap Monoprice certified cable is a great first step for troubleshooting. The first thing I did when upgrading to a 4k display was grab 1 certified cable so I could A/B test them if/when an issue arose.
 
I spent a couple of hours fiddling to get HDR working right on my OLED from my Xbox One S. Checklist for other OLED owners:

Make sure your cables are high speed. My Monoprice high speed (not certified) cables are working fine.

Must enable HDMI deep color manually on the OLED. Under settings-> general -> find HDMI port you are using. Toggle on Deep Color. Reboot required.

For ARC (if you are using) be sure to use HDMI2 on the TV (keep in mind this doesn't support the advanced codecs).

For my Onkyo TX-NR646, my biggest mistake was using the wrong ports. Only ports 1-3 support hdcp2.2.

Nicest thing I have found so far is that the TV input is saving settings for each type of input. I.E. Xbox One games -> remembers game mode. HDR comes on for 4k BD and it switches back to the saved color code for HDR content. Not just input memory. Nice. Assume I'll encounter some issues with games that support HDR at some point but I haven't tried one yet.

As far as the plasma burn in talk - I have a 2010/2011 Panasonic GT25 plasma I did tons of gaming on (in fact, generally I play a lot of hours of the same game for months at a time...Right now it is Overwatch). Image retention for a couple of hours - yes, if I got up close to the screen, otherwise it was pretty hard to see. Burn in? Nope. I cranked the contrast/brightness down and was nice to it early on, and ran it calibrated after that.
 
What do you mean? The X900E comes in 49" this year and is probably the best you could get at that size. Smaller sizes are increasingly niche. They still have the 40-43" sizes for people who really can't fit anything, but 55" is the new standard size and cannibalizes 49" sales. I think eventually they may do 46" again and just merge 43" and 49" etc. These days even 65" which was unheard of for mass market size is increasingly sold. I have one and I truly feel I could fit a 75" if I needed to.

Crazy thing about this is that the X930E has around 25 ms of input lag with HDR. Seems all manufacturers realized how important it was.

All the high end X930E/940E, ZD9,A1E don't have anything below 55 inches : https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarcher/2017/02/09/sonys-2017-tv-line-up-with-prices/#21e58ef93ab4

The X900E isn't high end. I doesn't support Dolby Vision and I don't expect it to have as much nits and otehr features like the others.

The Samsung Q7/8/9 this year don't have anything below 55 inches too.

55 inches shoulmdn't be the standard, not yet, not only because not all have huge space where to put but also bigger screens means much more expensive.
Also if there are are flaws in a stream or game like jaggies, you gonna see them accentued in a bigger screen.
49 inches is the best size space/price.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
So for the XE93 the input lag for 1080p gaming is not that good. Can I force my PS4 Pro to upscale 4k for any game I play to get the lower input lag?
Yeah the Pro and and Xbox One S will do that automatically.

A Switch, standard PS4, and the standard Xbox One (as well as older consoles) would probably have issues though.
 

ACH1LL3US

Member
Why do you think that you can't get burn-in with OLEDs? There is an OLED TV at the local Best Buy with HORRIBLE burn-in.


First off, the oled's in the store are shutoff at the mains meaning the comp cycle is never run on them, period. This means all that static content is collecting and the comp cycle isn't run to get rid of it like it should, kinda like an etch a sketch ( am I showing my age here?).

I have a 65B6 that has 142hrs on it. I accidentally left it on when I left the house on PS4 youtube and it stopped at the next video screen with all the boxes on all over on a black screen. The screen was like this for almost 12hrs!?!!! I came home freaked out as at the time the tv only had 40hrs on it.

I saw clear image retention on grey screens and even colored screens. I ran one full comp cycle in the menu system and it got rid of 50% of it and then ran again immediately a second comp cycle and it was 100% clear!

Now you would think I would never make that mistake again right? Wrong! I did it again a month later and had to do two comp cycles to get rid of the image retention.

Now everyone has to keep in mind I turned off the absl in the service menu before all of this which auto dims a static image, so that was off and I had in the menu of the tv not to turn off or shift pixels and the PS4 I had the dim feature or sleep mode turned off. So this is the worst case scenario!

Having gone through this with oled I would 100% say they are totally fine for gaming. No way you would do what I did with gaming, ever!
 

KevinG

Member
My PS4 Pro says that the HDMI cable I'm using is 1.4 and may not support 4K?

It's the cord that came with the Pro. I'm new to all of this and I'm confused. Haha.
 

vpance

Member
Only in 1080p mode like the X930E right?

I think so. Here's the translated part in question

In Cinema Pro mode, the display delay is rather disappointing (95 ms), especially compared to the Sony 65XD9305. Switching to Game mode allows the lag input to be reduced to only 47 ms; Again, it is a bit higher than on the 65XD9305 (36 ms). The Bravia A1 is almost 3 frames per second behind the source, which does not have much impact on the solo game, but fierce competitors will turn to other more reactive models like the Samsung 55KS7000 or the new Oled LG (65W7) whose input lag goes down to 20 ms.

Quick check on the lag results for the XD93 shows 36ms for 1080p so I guess they weren't talking about 4K. False alarm!
 

SourBear

Banned
So I'm considering jumping on either the Sony x900e or the x930e.

x900e: cheaper and has fald but doesn't have dolby vision
x930e: nits are really good but is edge lit
 

vpance

Member
So I'm considering jumping on either the Sony x900e or the x930e.

x900e: cheaper and has fald but doesn't have dolby vision
x930e: nits are really good but is edge lit

Despite the X930E being edge lit, the dimming is still better than X900E's according to a few different reviews. You can also see for yourself on Rtings.

That said, the 930 gets really bright. So in some specific HDR situation I'm sure it could look worse.

Logically I think the 900E will be good enough in most cases. But if you can afford it, the 930 is still the way to go I think. Don't want to regret missing that eyeball searing HDR.
 

ShapeGSX

Member
That's fine and I am the first to admit these sets aren't perfect, yet nigh on every post you make in here seems to be slamming the set you have no wish to buy. Just seems an odd agenda.

You take this stuff way too personally. I still have a $700 deposit down on an E6 at Best Buy. I just decided not to get it because of the reasons I mentioned. I have to go get my deposit back. And when you said it was impossible to get burn in when I just saw one with an insane amount of burn in, I mentioned it. That's not slamming.

I think the OLEDs are gorgeous. With a few more years of development and other manufacturers using the screens, I think they will be absolutely incredible. I will end up with one. Just not yet. I just spent $5000 on a TV 3 years ago. :p
 

Sky Chief

Member
That is on the TV's built in Netflix, so signal doesn't come into it.

Perhaps you're right; looking at that Pan's shot, it's almost 1:1. Perhaps I'm in a serious re-adjustment phase, having spent years looking at a souped up, brightened Samsung picture to make up for the LED's flaws, and now 'accurate' looks dull to me.

Having said that, I went into the store again today and looked at the TVs side by side. There is no doubt, the colour reproduction is fantastic on OLED. What looked green on the LG was off-green on the Samsung beside it. But I do think there is a 'cheapness' to the C6's picture that is not apparent on the E6, which I also looked at (and is out of my price range!). The C6 looks grainy and muted in comparison, it isn't just my eyes, and the ABL is obvious on any white image, which is just grey.

I have also got some HDMI problems, last night I got a crazy green and black light show when I tried to play a regular bluray, and then had to restart multiple times to get the signal to show up. This has happened multiple times now, so Curry's has agreed to a return. It has faulty HDMIs for sure.

My key problem now is: do I go for the same OLED again, knowing that I'm irritated by the ABL, or go for the 65" Samsung KS8000 at the same price, and risk hating the colours/blacks? I'm not sure now.

Just exchange the OLED for an LCD for everyone's sake. The way you want to set yours up is a crime against TVs. It's like buying a $500 bottle of wine and then complaining that it doesn't taste good mixed with Sprite (or tastes cheap with Sprite, duh). Just buy the Two Buck Chuck if you so want to bastardize the original manufacturers intent.
 

holygeesus

Banned
You take this stuff way too personally. I still have a $700 deposit down on an E6 at Best Buy. I just decided not to get it because of the reasons I mentioned. I have to go get my deposit back. And when you said it was impossible to get burn in when I just saw one with an insane amount of burn in, I mentioned it. That's not slamming.

I don't get personal over TVs trust me. I just find it pretty astonishing that people think they know better than someone who owns a set, has gamed on it for nigh a year, throughly investigated every aspect of it, because they've seen one once in their local Best Buy. I will always correct misinformation posted as fact, because it annoys me, more than anything.
 

J-Rzez

Member
I have a 65EF9500 I got around their launch availability. I game, we watch movies streamed or now from my Sony 4k bd-player, wife watches basic cable. TV sees 6-8hrs use a day at the very least.

Zero burn in.

So yeah, you have to purposely try to damage them. Or be very unlucky and/or stupid enough to leave something of crazy static contrast on it for days.
 
My PS4 Pro says that the HDMI cable I'm using is 1.4 and may not support 4K?

It's the cord that came with the Pro. I'm new to all of this and I'm confused. Haha.

Probably a really dumb question, but the PS4 Pro comes with the proper cable for 4K HDR, correct?

I actually had the same question awhile ago. From what I tested, they seem to work well, but honestly I didn't test them thoroughly on different sources, only on the PS4 Pro. I am pretty sure I read it's a 4K/60 2.0 HDMI cable somewhere so I imagine that you should be fine with them. I also got some Monoprice 4k/60 2.0 HDMI cables and they seem to be very close when I compared them. When I checked the PS4 Pro, it said HDCP 2.2 on both the pack in PS4 Pro cables and the Monoprice if I remember correctly.
 

finalflame

Member
Well, ended up with a 55" B6 and am very happy with the image quality. Can't quite tell any imperfections with the panel, but do notice annoying motion handling. What are optimal motion handling settings that peopler recommend?
 

JamiieCarter

Neo Member
Hello guys, I'm just looking for some advice, I'm currently torn between either purchasing a 55' 4K television or looking at possibly buying a 2x 4k Monitor.

I have around £700-800 to be working with and could probably give or take a little bit more than that. I currently have a normal launch PS4 but I get the feeling that this is slowly dying as I've had to reformat the PS a few too many times and have also been taken to the safe startup screen on a few occasions too, so upgrading to the PS4 Pro is also an option should my current PS 'conk out'.

I have a decent gaming rig with a Sapphire Radeon R9 290 Tri-X Edition 4GB so this could potentially utilise the dual 4k monitors. I currently have some DELL 1080p standard monitors that aren't really that great for gaming/working on after long periods, I'm an IT Engineer/Consultant that does remote work from home a few days a week.

I'm currently looking into the following 4k television after reading great reviews about it:

http://www.ebuyer.com/746778-samsung-ku6400-55-ultra-hd-smart-tv-ue55ku6400uxxu

or if I decide to go the dual 4k monitor route I have been looking at the following:

http://www.ebuyer.com/707243-samsung-ue590d-28-ultra-hd-freesync-monitor-lu28e590ds-en

http://www.ebuyer.com/639060-asus-pb287q-28-4k-60hz-uhd-hdmi-monitor-pb287q

Any other recommendations for either a 4k TV or a dual 4K monitor setups in the UK> I'm looking to get great value for my money and to try and 'future proof' myself for the next few years so any advice would be great.
 
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