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[ss_lemonade]

What's the best way to know if you have your black levels properly set? I always see people saying you either get:

1. Too dark a screen/crushed blacks
2. Just right
3. Too light/washed out

Problem is on my ps3 and a w900a, all 4 combinations give me different output.

1. PS3 Full + TV Limited = very dark, crushed blacks
2. PS3 Full + TV Full = just a bit dark, blacks not as crushed, not washed out
3. PS3 Limited + TV Limited = just a bit lighter, blacks not crushed, not too washed out
4. PS3 Limited + TV Full = very light, washed out.

If I set the TV to Auto instead, I get either 2 (if PS3 is set to Full) or 3 (if PS3 is set to Limited).

So which one is actually correct? I thought there shouldn't be any difference between full-full and limited-limited, yet I see 4 different outputs instead of 3

 

[kagete]

After a month, I was finally able to return my defective Samsung KS8000. Now prices have shot back up and I am determined to buy only at a brick and mortar retail store and not online.

I generally liked the KS8000 but could notice its faults with blooming and poor contrast especially at night. It's now shot up in price and I would like to get everyone's feedback on what they would recommend with a $2,000 max budget from Best Buy.

$1,800 - 65" KS8000 - Default choice, but it bums me that I had to return the same TV I bought at $1080 via EPP.

$1,600 - 65" KS8500 - Curved version is actually cheaper right now. I don't mind but I'm not sure what others feel about curved sets.

$2,000 - 65" Sony 930D - Supposedly better local dimming and motion processing than Samsungs at a slight premium.

$2,000 - 55" LG B6P - Smaller, but supposedly the best at this price point.

$2,000 - 55" LG C6P - Smaller, and curved with a different processor than the B6, so it gets the same patches as the more expensive G and E models before the B series (like the HDR input lag update).

 

[NYR]

After a month, I was finally able to return my defective Samsung KS8000. Now prices have shot back up and I am determined to buy only at a brick and mortar retail store and not online.

I generally liked the KS8000 but could notice its faults with blooming and poor contrast especially at night. It's now shot up in price and I would like to get everyone's feedback on what they would recommend with a $2,000 max budget from Best Buy.

$1,800 - 65" KS8000 - Default choice, but it bums me that I had to return the same TV I bought at $1080 via EPP.

$1,600 - 65" KS8500 - Curved version is actually cheaper right now. I don't mind but I'm not sure what others feel about curved sets.

$2,000 - 65" Sony 930D - Supposedly better local dimming and motion processing than Samsungs at a slight premium.

$2,000 - 55" LG B6P - Smaller, but supposedly the best at this price point.

$2,000 - 55" LG C6P - Smaller, and curved with a different processor than the B6, so it gets the same patches as the more expensive G and E models before the B series (like the HDR input lag update).

I would go with the B6, it's the best out of the list provided. The C6 if you want to the curve.

I would also wait for CES, see what is out there to see if it is worth waiting.

 

[kagete]

I would go with the B6, it's the best out of the list provided. The C6 if you want to the curve.

I would also wait for CES, see what is out there to see if it is worth waiting.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply.

We currently have a 42" from 2011 our bedroom that's dwarfed by a large living room. The room has a lot of light but we do most of our watching at night when it's darker because one of us works night shifts. PS4 pro for gaming, and just standard comcast cable box. No plans for a 4k bluray player yet.

I'm not really willing to wait because the smaller TV goes back to our bedroom as soon as we get a new one. Plus, even though CES will have next year's models revealed, the earliest I'd buy any new model is when it's slightly discounted a few months after release. That could be 6-8 months from today. We don't mind buying another TV next Black Friday sale period. That old 42" TV is the only TV we have in the house right now!

 

[dreamcastfan]

Trading in my Sony 940D, due to some HORRIBLE ghosting/trailing/smearing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_csIEzVa6yk I hate to, because the picture otherwise is fantastic. But Sony seems to either tell people it's normal, or they have a defective unit. Over on AVS forum, some have swapped their set out 3-6 times with the SAME issue. This TV was 8,000 dollars when it was released, and this problem is acceptable according to sony?! Imagine how bad animation looks with black lines against bright backgrounds. Happy Feet was hard to watch because of the ghosting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRQkJqrMI_c
So, I'll be moving to the LG65C6 soon.

 

[Insane Metal]

Trading in my Sony 940D, due to some HORRIBLE ghosting/trailing/smearing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_csIEzVa6yk I hate to, because the picture otherwise is fantastic. But Sony seems to either tell people it's normal, or they have a defective unit. Over on AVS forum, some have swapped their set out 3-6 times with the SAME issue. This TV was 8,000 dollars when it was released, and this problem is acceptable according to sony?! Imagine how bad animation looks with black lines against bright backgrounds. Happy Feet was hard to watch because of the ghosting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRQkJqrMI_c
So, I'll be moving to the LG65C6 soon.

Goddamn, yeah that's really bad :/

 

[EvB]

I hope this CES brings HDR to the masses. I would like to see some home LED 4K projectors.

HDR basically isn't really possible In a projection setup, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Future movie content is going to end up being mastered for theatres and for TVs.

 

[III-V]

HDR basically isn't really possible In a projection setup, so I wouldn't get your hopes up.
Future movie content is going to end up being mastered for theatres and for TVs.

Its possible. You don't need 1000 nits when your screen is 10 foot wide.

 

[Karspankey]

What's the best way to know if you have your black levels properly set? I always see people saying you either get:

1. Too dark a screen/crushed blacks
2. Just right
3. Too light/washed out

Problem is on my ps3 and a w900a, all 4 combinations give me different output.

1. PS3 Full + TV Limited = very dark, crushed blacks
2. PS3 Full + TV Full = just a bit dark, blacks not as crushed, not washed out
3. PS3 Limited + TV Limited = just a bit lighter, blacks not crushed, not too washed out
4. PS3 Limited + TV Full = very light, washed out.

If I set the TV to Auto instead, I get either 2 (if PS3 is set to Full) or 3 (if PS3 is set to Limited).

So which one is actually correct? I thought there shouldn't be any difference between full-full and limited-limited, yet I see 4 different outputs instead of 3

If your TV can do full, then yes, do number 2!

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply.

We currently have a 42" from 2011 our bedroom that's dwarfed by a large living room. The room has a lot of light but we do most of our watching at night when it's darker because one of us works night shifts. PS4 pro for gaming, and just standard comcast cable box. No plans for a 4k bluray player yet.

I'm not really willing to wait because the smaller TV goes back to our bedroom as soon as we get a new one. Plus, even though CES will have next year's models revealed, the earliest I'd buy any new model is when it's slightly discounted a few months after release. That could be 6-8 months from today. We don't mind buying another TV next Black Friday sale period. That old 42" TV is the only TV we have in the house right now!

C6 is the better option, better chipset than the B6, steady relatively low lag 35-38ms range and that's HDR mode too, B6 has high lag, for a gamer it doesn't make sense to pick the B6 knowing what we do. The curve is very slight and not an issue, it's the best value for money.

 

[EvB]

Its possible. You don't need 1000 nits when your screen is 10 foot wide.

A projector setup can't achieve the same black levels as a TV, so the contrast ratio is physically limited.

 

[kagete]

C6 is the better option, better chipset than the B6, steady relatively low lag 35-38ms range and that's HDR mode too, B6 has high lag, for a gamer it doesn't make sense to pick the B6 knowing what we do. The curve is very slight and not an issue, it's the best value for money.

Thanks for the input. I will try to view them at BestBuy later. It all hinges on what the wife thinks as well!

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Thanks for the input. I will try to view them at BestBuy later. It all hinges on what the wife thinks as well!

I'd also take the C6 over the B6, despite preferring flat to curved. But it's for a different reason that no one mentioned, the C6 is 3D-capable. And although I haven't seen it myself, impressions are that LG's OLED passive 3D is the best available in a home display.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

I'd also take the C6 over the B6, despite preferring flat to curved. But it's for a different reason that no one mentioned, the C6 is 3D-capable. And although I haven't seen it myself, impressions are that LG's OLED passive 3D is the best available in a home display.

Yup completely forgot to mention the 3D!! Just reinforces the better buy.

 

[jstevenson]

I'd also take the C6 over the B6, despite preferring flat to curved. But it's for a different reason that no one mentioned, the C6 is 3D-capable. And although I haven't seen it myself, impressions are that LG's OLED passive 3D is the best available in a home display.

yeah the 3D is stunning on the E6/B6.

 

[Nobility]

The hope...it rises...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5usEIbDjQqc

 

[Paragon]

A projector setup can't achieve the same black levels as a TV, so the contrast ratio is physically limited.

Yeah that's the problem with projectors.
Your black level is typically determined by the room more than the projector specs itself, as it can never be darker than your screen.
You really have to go all-out with room treatments if you want the best black level because any amount of ambient light or light from the projector reflecting back onto the screen will raise the black level.

Another issue is that D-ILA projectors have the best black level by far, but are lacking in ANSI contrast, while DLP projectors have very good ANSI contrast but much lower static contrast.
So a DLP would be better for high brightness HDR content, but D-ILA for low brightness content.
I know that a lot of people seem to favor black level over everything else, but I think I actually prefer the higher ANSI contrast and sharpness of DLP.
The $500 DLP projector that I bought just to see if I liked using one was actually higher contrast than the $6000 D-ILA I upgraded to in bright scenes.
Much punchier image with around 1000:1 contrast rather than 300:1. Yes, you read those numbers correctly.

I think I just prefer cheaper projectors in general though. With a cheap projector you can get a huge image for not a lot of money.
Even cheap DLPs still put out a very sharp punchy image. You get a lot for your money and they're a lot of fun.
You have to spend a lot more money to get a good image from an SXRD or D-ILA projector, the image is much softer due to the 3-chip design, ANSI contrast is lower, and motion is a lot more like a big LCD.
I don't think I would consider buying an expensive projector again - at least not for gaming. It just wasn't a worthwhile upgrade.

I don't have a projector set up in my new place, but I'm thinking I would rather just buy a 65" or larger TV - probably OLED - and sit closer.
I do miss having a 12ft screen but projectors are a lot of work and expense.

 

[Dave_6]

The hope...it rises...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5usEIbDjQqc

Not really interested in the 'wallpaper' screen, just give me an E7 with some noteworthy improvements and I'll be happy.

 

[kagete]

Thank you everyone... We got the 55C6P! I'm up way too late but i feel that we got a perfect TV with no issues we can see yet!

I will say that Samsung's auto-detection of HDMI connected devices is unbeatable and I really think the breakout OneConnect box is better than LG putting all the hdmi ports on the left edge of the TV.

 

[holygeesus]

C6 is the better option, better chipset than the B6, steady relatively low lag 35-38ms range and that's HDR mode too, B6 has high lag, for a gamer it doesn't make sense to pick the B6 knowing what we do.

Have you gamed on the B6? No issue on mine. Even HDR gaming feels fine.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Have you gamed on the B6? No issue on mine. Even HDR gaming feels fine.

No, but the lag on the B6 would be too high for me, I'm just saying why would anyone choose the B6 over the C6, when it's the same price, and it's better? It wouldn't make sense, and the curve isn't an argument as it's very slight.

 

[Nick]

Is there a chance the KS8000 can receive a price drop after CES?

 

[Anarion07]

No, but the lag on the B6 would be too high for me, I'm just saying why would anyone choose the B6 over the C6, when it's the same price, and it's better? It wouldn't make sense, and the curve isn't an argument as it's very slight.

In Germany for example the c6 costs 1000€ more than the b6.
I don't really notice the input lag on the b6 either, even in HDR.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

In Germany for example the c6 costs 1000€ more than the b6.
I don't really notice the input lag on the b6 either, even in HDR.

That's fair enough, most people would choose the B6 with that kind of price difference, in the UK they cost the same.

 

[holygeesus]

No, but the lag on the B6 would be too high for me, I'm just saying why would anyone choose the B6 over the C6, when it's the same price, and it's better? It wouldn't make sense, and the curve isn't an argument as it's very slight.

The lag only seems to be an issue to people who don't even own a B6. Weird. As I say, not had any issues here either on PC or consoles using Game mode and standard HDR. If you are a twitch gamer then even the C6 won't be fast enough for you, nor will most modern sets. Probably should stick to CRT.

 

[ss_lemonade]

If your TV can do full, then yes, do number 2!

Problem is, both 2 and 3 can kind of look correct to me since neither is too dark nor too light

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

The lag only seems to be an issue to people who don't even own a B6. Weird. As I say, not had any issues here either on PC or consoles using Game mode and standard HDR. If you are a twitch gamer then even the C6 won't be fast enough for you, nor will most modern sets. Probably should stick to CRT.

Im happy you are enjoying your B6! But lag is lag, just because it's 60ms on the B6 it doesn't suddenly make it better than 60ms on another TV.

Mine is 35ms for everything (Panasonic 902)
If I turn on interpolation it rises to 47ms, to me it feels horrible, just the way it is.

So if someone has the chance to buy a C6 which is the same price, adds features and sorts input lag, why would you buy the B6? Fair question.

 

[holygeesus]

Im happy you are enjoying your B6! But lag is lag, just because it's 60ms on the B6 it doesn't suddenly make it better than 60ms on another TV.

Mine is 35ms for everything (Panasonic 902)
If I turn on interpolation it rises to 47ms, to me it feels horrible, just the way it is.

So if someone has the chance to buy a C6 which is the same price, adds features and sorts input lag, why would you buy the B6? Fair question.

Where are you even getting 60ms from? It's 44ms in Game mode and 38.2 in HDR, according to rtings. Hardly that different to the C6.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Where are you even getting 60ms from? It's 44ms in Game mode and 38.2 in HDR, according to rtings. Hardly that different to the C6.

Rtings:


Source Input lag
1080p @ 60Hz 44.4ms
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 61.0ms
1080p @ 60Hz @ HDR 58.0ms - 71.0ms
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 @ HDR 54.9ms - 70.7ms
4k @ 60Hz 43.2ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 59.8ms
4k @ 60Hz @ HDR 38.2ms - 54.5ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 @ HDR 38.8ms - 54.7ms

 

[holygeesus]

Rtings:


Source Input lag
1080p @ 60Hz 44.4ms
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 61.0ms
1080p @ 60Hz @ HDR 58.0ms - 71.0ms
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 @ HDR 54.9ms - 70.7ms
4k @ 60Hz 43.2ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 59.8ms
4k @ 60Hz @ HDR 38.2ms - 54.5ms
4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 @ HDR 38.8ms - 54.7ms

They are the only ones I care about, and Game mode HDR is on the way, according to LG. If you can tell the difference between 32 and 44ms when playing predominantly 30fps titles, then I don't know what to say.

People in this thread seem to think they know better than those actually owning and using the sets. I've been a gamer for over 30 years, using all manner of displays, from CRT, to LCD and a Kuro plasma, and I'm having no problem with lag on this set.

 

[MazeHaze]

They are the only ones I care about, and Game mode HDR is on the way, according to LG. If you can tell the difference between 32 and 44ms when playing predominantly 30fps titles, then I don't know what to say.

People in this thread seem to think they know better than those actually owning and using the sets. I've been a gamer for over 30 years, using all manner of displays, from CRT, to LCD and a Kuro plasma, and I'm having no problem with lag on this set.

Just because those are the only ones YOU care about doesn't mean theyre the only ones that matter.

Anybody using this for PC gaming is gonna care about 4:4:4, and 60ms at 1080p 444 is gonna feel pretty garbage with a mouse tbf.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

They are the only ones I care about, and Game mode HDR is on the way, according to LG. If you can tell the difference between 32 and 44ms when playing predominantly 30fps titles, then I don't know what to say.

People in this thread seem to think they know better than those actually owning and using the sets. I've been a gamer for over 30 years, using all manner of displays, from CRT, to LCD and a Kuro plasma, and I'm having no problem with lag on this set.

Like I said I'm very pleased you are happy! But cycling lag!? Consistency isn't too much to ask, it's quite a jump, but fingers crossed LG can fix it.

 

[Matty8787]

Well I was going to get the KS7000 (8000 in the Us) but nowhere has stock! I asked and they say they expect stock but no dates.

Do I wait or is there any other 55" 4k 10bit HDR TV I should consider?

Thoughts on the Hisense M7000?

 

[UrbanRats]

They are the only ones I care about, and Game mode HDR is on the way, according to LG. If you can tell the difference between 32 and 44ms when playing predominantly 30fps titles, then I don't know what to say.

People in this thread seem to think they know better than those actually owning and using the sets. I've been a gamer for over 30 years, using all manner of displays, from CRT, to LCD and a Kuro plasma, and I'm having no problem with lag on this set.

Sometimes it's hard to see something, but you feel it.
I have an st60 plasma and compared to my pc monitor, I couldn't see the difference with the naked eye, but when I was in game (60fps) that required me to parry and dodge accurately, I had trouble maintaining the same level of accuracy, and I would mess up a lot playing on the tv.
I even went back and forth and let other people try, to make sure it wasn't some placebo effect, and it repeated every time even for other people.

Not sure if other factors were influencing input lag (it was the same PC connected to both the monitor and the TV) but it was a big deal.

I still play on my tv, but it's hard to pretend it doesn't matter.

 

[muu]

How big of a difference are there between these oled tvs and mid-higher tier led tvs if there's going to be some ambient light present anyway? I want to add a tv to my main living room, was going to move up my old 47in but for the size of the room (15x25) it could really benefit from a bigger size tv. It's currently also a well lit room during the daytime with 4 large windows facing north. Night time unless we're doing movies we'll have a few of the lights on. How much am I really missing out on if I go with a 65in that's in the 800-1400 range? Not sure how much gaming use it will get, though I do have a steam link incoming.

 

[holygeesus]

Sometimes it's hard to see something, but you feel it.
I have an st60 plasma and compared to my pc monitor, I couldn't see the difference with the naked eye, but when I was in game (60fps) that required me to parry and dodge accurately, I had trouble maintaining the same level of accuracy, and I would mess up a lot playing on the tv.
I even went back and forth and let other people try, to make sure it wasn't some placebo effect, and it repeated every time even for other people.

Not sure if other factors were influencing input lag (it was the same PC connected to both the monitor and the TV) but it was a big deal.

I still play on my tv, but it's hard to pretend it doesn't matter.

Of course you will notice the difference flicking from one device to another, and different games will suffer more, depending on the genre, and as mentioned, control method - it just irks when people in this thread dish out the same hyperbole when they haven't even used the TV for gaming - for someone to tell me that the set is unsuitable for gaming, likely having not even seen one in action, let alone gamed on one, while I am sitting here, enjoying games without issue, is annoying.

 

[Anarion07]

Do any hdr games benefit from 10 bit colour yet or is it just brightness and contrast?

With FFXV for example I still get banding in the sky

 

[tmdorsey]

How big of a difference are there between these oled tvs and mid-higher tier led tvs if there's going to be some ambient light present anyway? I want to add a tv to my main living room, was going to move up my old 47in but for the size of the room (15x25) it could really benefit from a bigger size tv. It's currently also a well lit room during the daytime with 4 large windows facing north. Night time unless we're doing movies we'll have a few of the lights on. How much am I really missing out on if I go with a 65in that's in the 800-1400 range? Not sure how much gaming use it will get, though I do have a steam link incoming.

Sounds like you definitely should go LCD. I've read that ambient lighting on a mid-to high range LCD makes the picture quality more than satisfactory and comparable to OLED. Personally, I don't think you would be missing out on too much depending on how far away from the set you will be sitting. Most of these newer mid-to-high range sets have great picture quality anyway. Given this, I would take a bigger LCD over a smaller size OLED.

 

[Anarion07]

Sounds like you definitely should go LCD. I've read that ambient lighting on a mid-to high range LCD makes the picture quality more than satisfactory and comparable to OLED. Personally, I don't think you would be missing out on too much depending on how far away from the set you will be sitting. Most of these newer mid-to-high range sets have great picture quality anyway. Given this, I would take a bigger LCD over a smaller size OLED.

65 inch for 800-1400 dollar comparable to OLED? I'd like to read that, too

 

[MazeHaze]

Well I was going to get the KS7000 (8000 in the Us) but nowhere has stock! I asked and they say they expect stock but no dates.

Do I wait or is there any other 55" 4k 10bit HDR TV I should consider?

Thoughts on the Hisense M7000?

This happened to me, and they were all like " wellll, who knows when we will get stock? Hard to say really" because they didn't want me to leave the store without buying a tv. Tried to sell me a Sony 850D for the same price (lololol)

They got stock in a week later. I say wait.

 

[DOT DASH DOT]

Of course you will notice the difference flicking from one device to another, and different games will suffer more, depending on the genre, and as mentioned, control method - it just irks when people in this thread dish out the same hyperbole when they haven't even used the TV for gaming - for someone to tell me that the set is unsuitable for gaming, likely having not even seen one in action, let alone gamed on one, while I am sitting here, enjoying games without issue, is annoying.

I think you are taking it a bit personally, it's great that you are pleased with your purchase, but you don't have to try one to know if you'd be happy with the lag input or not, it's a great TV so enjoying it is what it's all about.

 

[BumRush]

Got a chance to check out a side-by-side of the z9d and the G6 yesterday and the picture looks incredibly similar on both. Only benefit of the Sony was that the 75" was sub $10k, but I'm trying to spend $4k anyway, so a $9K price tag isn't all that enticing.

Seriously though, both TVs have fucking INCREDIBLE pictures

 

[holygeesus]

Got a chance to check out a side-by-side of the z9d and the G6 yesterday and the picture looks incredibly similar on both. Only benefit of the Sony was that the 75" was sub $10k, but I'm trying to spend $4k anyway, so a $9K price tag isn't all that enticing.

Seriously though, both TVs have fucking INCREDIBLE pictures

They do. I can't wait to see what Sony do with OLED. Was it a proper store demo (i.e. in the dark) or just under the lights. I find you need home viewing conditions to properly see both at their best.

 

[Teknoman]

Bought a new TV ( LG 50UH5500 ) however it doesn't support rca out for speakers, only digital. Anyone know of some decent 2.1 speakers that have a digital (toslink) input?

 

[BumRush]

They do. I can't wait to see what Sony do with OLED. Was it a proper store demo (i.e. in the dark) or just under the lights. I find you need home viewing conditions to properly see both at their best.

Best buy, one of those optimally lit Magnolia rooms that has the high end TVs. I stared for way too long.

 

[tmdorsey]

65 inch for 800-1400 dollar comparable to OLED? I'd like to read that, too

The Samsung KS sets were going for around that with EPP pricing around Black Friday time. With ambient lighting these sets can produce a really good picture.

I think after CES around the time of the Super Bowl you might be able to get a KS somewhere near that price range.

 

[holygeesus]

Best buy, one of those optimally lit Magnolia rooms that has the high end TVs. I stared for way too long.

Ah cool. It still blows my mind watching the OLED in a pitch dark room and having the entire set disappear completely in dark scenes.

 

[BumRush]

Ah cool. It still blows my mind watching the OLED in a pitch dark room and having the entire set disappear completely in dark scenes.

The demo they had running was showcasing HDR content against 100% blackness and I'm not sure how TVs can get that much nicer lol.

 

[holygeesus]

The demo they had running was showcasing HDR content against 100% blackness and I'm not sure how TVs can get that much nicer lol.

That's the only issue I have with store demos - they pump out the most pristine of sources, so you see the set at it's best, then you take it home and watch Netflix and see some of the issues with near black performance et al. Same with the ZD though. All TVs have faults, and I guess it's up to us to figure out those we can live with. I couldn't go back to LCD now though or even plasma.

 

[BumRush]

That's the only issue I have with store demos - they pump out the most pristine of sources, so you see the set at it's best, then you take it home and watch Netflix and see some of the issues with near black performance et al. Same with the ZD though. All TVs have faults, and I guess it's up to us to figure out those we can live with. I couldn't go back to LCD now though or even plasma.

Well said. It's what makes sites like rtings that much more important.

On that note, I wonder why rtings has effectively cornered that market...why aren't there any other sites on par with rtings for in depth reviews (or are there)?