• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED

The benefit of Dolby Vision is that it maps to the specs of your TV. When the Sony X930E gets updated with Dolby Vision it'll be to that TVs spec. I don't see any reason why it would be different for LCD.

The Sony Z9D and X930E are interesting for me too. Because I have a feeling those two will excel at Dolby Vision once the updates hit.


HDTV Test confirming what i was saying that an HDR10 high peak LCD matched Dolby Vision on an OLED in terms of colour and detail.


Dolby Vision delivered a superior HDR image compared with HDR10 4K Blu-ray on the LG OLED55E6, displaying less highlight clipping and more accurate colours;

The most effective method to recover the blown-out highlights in Ultra HD Blu-ray movies on the LG E6 was by lowering the [Contrast] on the source player.
A top-end 4K HDR LED LCD TV with high peak brightness and correct tone-mapping (for example the Samsung UE65KS9500) could present HDR10 UHD Blu-ray films in a manner that’s not inferior to Dolby Vision.

In other words, Dolby Vision pulled ahead of HDR10 4K Blu-ray when the display featured suboptimal peak brightness/ colour volume/ tone-mapping, but the gap was closed to negligible levels by a high-end HDR TV with 1000+ nit peak luminance and accurate tone-mapping.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/dolby-hdr-201606214303.htm
 

MazeHaze

Banned
So should I not get the C7? I would use it as a PC monitor for browsing and gaming as well as for movies and netflix, but all this burn in stuff is kind of putting me off.
 

Bustanen

Member
So should I not get the C7? I would use it as a PC monitor for browsing and gaming as well as for movies and netflix, but all this burn in stuff is kind of putting me off.
Don't get it for browsing, image retention is guaranteed and in the worst case permanent burn in.
 

Kyoufu

Member
So should I not get the C7? I would use it as a PC monitor for browsing and gaming as well as for movies and netflix, but all this burn in stuff is kind of putting me off.

I don't know what's going on with my set. I don't know how the Netflix logo found its way to the bottom right corner and why I'd only notice it many months later.

edit: Looks like the built-in Netflix app was the culprit, but the app itself has a screensaver so how the fudge did the logo burn in and why hasn't it cleared by now? Haven't used Netflix in like 5-6 months!
 

Bustanen

Member
I don't know what's going on with my set. I don't know how the Netflix logo found its way to the bottom right corner and why I'd only notice it many months later.

edit: Looks like the built-in Netflix app was the culprit, but the app itself has a screensaver so how the fudge did the logo burn in and why hasn't it cleared by now? Haven't used Netflix in like 5-6 months!
It can happen quickly especially in torch mode. Someone from AVS got their settings menu burn in and the menu won't stay on more than 2 minutes at a time. Yellow and red colours are apparently most likely to burn in.

H0yoyfrl.jpg

Damnit. So what TV should I be looking at? I'm coming from a KS8000 so I have to at least meet that. Maybe try to find another one of those?
Sony x900/930, Panasonic dx902 maybe.
 

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
It can happen quickly especially in torch mode. Someone from AVS got their settings menu burn in and the menu won't stay on more than 2 minutes at a time. Yellow and red colours are apparently most likely to burn in.

H0yoyfrl.jpg


Sony x900/930, Panasonic dx902 maybe.

but is this visible on anything except a red slate?!


like guys, there's uniformity issues on all TVs which you can find if you look at a slate. Are they relevant if they don't appear in content?

Similarly, if something only shows on bright complete red slating - and is barely visible even then, is that relevant in full view field content?


also --- is that burn in (the settings) or just image retention because he's messing with settings while on said slate.


people showing me red screens means jack shit, honestly, show it in content and we can talk. LG would tell you the same thing.
 

Kyoufu

Member
but is this visible on anything except a red slate?!


like guys, there's uniformity issues on all TVs which you can find if you look at a slate. Are they relevant if they don't appear in content?

Similarly, if something only shows on bright complete red slating - and is barely visible even then, is that relevant in full view field content?


also --- is that burn in (the settings) or just image retention because he's messing with settings while on said slate.


people showing me red screens means jack shit, honestly, show it in content and we can talk. LG would tell you the same thing.

I actually noticed it during a CNN ad break where the screen turned red and purple briefly. Otherwise no, it's not noticeable on other colours.

For me it's definitely burn in because the logo comes from an app I haven't used in many months. You'd think compensation cycles would have cleared something from months ago by now.

And since it took at least 4 months for me to notice it, that should tell you how noticeable it is during normal content, ie. not at all.
 

Bustanen

Member
but is this visible on anything except a red slate?!


like guys, there's uniformity issues on all TVs which you can find if you look at a slate. Are they relevant if they don't appear in content?

Similarly, if something only shows on bright complete red slating - and is barely visible even then, is that relevant in full view field content?


also --- is that burn in (the settings) or just image retention because he's messing with settings while on said slate.


people showing me red screens means jack shit, honestly, show it in content and we can talk. LG would tell you the same thing.
Something that small shouldn't be wisible in normal use but once you see it you'll always see it.

I think he got the panel replaced eventually http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2804065-oled-screen-burn-photos.html

Luckily nothing on my tv yet but it's only 2 months old.
 
I got my LG C7 and have two questions.

What are the reliable settings to use for games or movies? Is it well calibrated out of the box?

Is there a decent HDMI switcher than can pass a 4K 60hz signal? Supposedly the one I was using doesn't. It may not be a big deal since I can still use it with my Switch and Wii U.
 

Mrbob

Member
Not tv related but if you have a Hulu subscription watch the show Casual. It's great.

HDTV Test confirming what i was saying that an HDR10 high peak LCD matched Dolby Vision on an OLED in terms of colour and detail.


Dolby Vision delivered a superior HDR image compared with HDR10 4K Blu-ray on the LG OLED55E6, displaying less highlight clipping and more accurate colours;

The most effective method to recover the blown-out highlights in Ultra HD Blu-ray movies on the LG E6 was by lowering the [Contrast] on the source player.
A top-end 4K HDR LED LCD TV with high peak brightness and correct tone-mapping (for example the Samsung UE65KS9500) could present HDR10 UHD Blu-ray films in a manner that’s not inferior to Dolby Vision.

In other words, Dolby Vision pulled ahead of HDR10 4K Blu-ray when the display featured suboptimal peak brightness/ colour volume/ tone-mapping, but the gap was closed to negligible levels by a high-end HDR TV with 1000+ nit peak luminance and accurate tone-mapping.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/dolby-hdr-201606214303.htm

Yeah I read that already. Article over a year old and tech advances. This is why I'm interested in seeing Dolby Vision in action on the X930E. With Dolby handling the tone mapping you don't have to rely on the tv manufacturer to get it right. Plus the X930E is one of the brightest TVs for HDR, and goes above the 1000 nits barrier.

Is your argument HDR10 is good enough for most people? Great, I agree. I watch HDR10 content all the time on my TV and it looks fine. All the features Dolby Vision implements will start becoming bigger buzzwords when HDR10+ starts to get more traction.

I got my LG C7 and have two questions.

What are the reliable settings to use for games or movies? Is it well calibrated out of the box?

Is there a decent HDMI switcher than can pass a 4K 60hz signal? Supposedly the one I was using doesn't. It may not be a big deal since I can still use it with my Switch and Wii U.

I go into PC mode and use ISF bright calibration since I have low light.

Not sure about the HDMI switcher.
 

BumRush

Member
I actually noticed it during a CNN ad break where the screen turned red and purple briefly. Otherwise no, it's not noticeable on other colours.

For me it's definitely burn in because the logo comes from an app I haven't used in many months. You'd think compensation cycles would have cleared something from months ago by now.

And since it took at least 4 months for me to notice it, that should tell you how noticeable it is during normal content, ie. not at all.

Could anyone else in the house have used it?
 

Evo X

Member
So my brother is looking to get some large 75"+ TVs for his new house.

His first choice was the 77" LG OLED, but it is a ridiculous price point.

What is the second best option available at this point? 4K HDR streaming mostly.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
So my brother is looking to get some large 75"+ TVs for his new house.

His first choice was the 77" LG OLED, but it is a ridiculous price point.

What is the second best option available at this point? 4K HDR streaming mostly.

Sony X940E. It only comes in one size, but it is pricey.
 
Not tv related but if you have a Hulu subscription watch the show Casual. It's great.



Yeah I read that already. Article over a year old and tech advances. This is why I'm interested in seeing Dolby Vision in action on the X930E. With Dolby handling the tone mapping you don't have to rely on the tv manufacturer to get it right. Plus the X930E is one of the brightest TVs for HDR, and goes above the 1000 nits barrier.

Is your argument HDR10 is good enough for most people? Great, I agree. I watch HDR10 content all the time on my TV and it looks fine. All the features Dolby Vision implements will start becoming bigger buzzwords when HDR10+ starts to get more traction.



I go into PC mode and use ISF bright calibration since I have low light.

Not sure about the HDMI switcher.

I can guarantee that it would be no different now than it was last year, an HDR10 LCD that can achieve 1000nits + and displaying 1000nit content does not need DV at all, it's all in the article, and like it says it's excellent for displays that have a lower peak brightness. I was saying It's a nice advantage for LCD's given how much 1000nit content is out there.

That's the other thing, all LCD's that can hit 1000nits + are high end anyway, and all have superb tone mapping.
 

Decado

Member
So should I not get the C7? I would use it as a PC monitor for browsing and gaming as well as for movies and netflix, but all this burn in stuff is kind of putting me off.
Doesn't sound like it is with the risk. I'm going LCD. Leaning towards 900e or Vizio P65-E1.
 
Question on HDR / deep color

So lg oled needs to enable deep color on per hdmi port basis and I did this. Horizon zero dawn looks best with this, and all the video modes on PS4 are set to auto .

But uncharted 4 which I think has no hdr optimization (?) i noticed when I go underground after the bell falls down, it's so dark I can't see anything (much). Disabling deep color on the LG, the picture goes black then comes back as I remember it, I guess.
If I turn off hdr on the display output settings on the PS4, things don't change. (Didn't restart the game though):

So now I am confused .. is enabling deep color on the LG making dark areas look too dark unless the game/input content over hdmi has been coded for HDR ?

(I see others not liking hdr for uncharted. Maybe I need to turn up the brightness, in the game options or only play in a pitch black room).
 

BumRush

Member
So my brother is looking to get some large 75"+ TVs for his new house.

His first choice was the 77" LG OLED, but it is a ridiculous price point.

What is the second best option available at this point? 4K HDR streaming mostly.

Any chance he'd want to go Projector? The new Epson 6040 UB semi-4K looks ridiculous (at a great price) and is killing it in reviews. I have my eye on it for an eventual theatre room.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epson-6040ub-home-theater-projector-review.htm

Obviously it's not perfect, but you said 75" plus and if he wants more, this will do the trick
 

Kudo

Member
Burn-in talk has me wondering my B7 but I think I won't cancel the order.. Hoping the 2017 models have better measures against the burn-in and now that I know even the UI can cause it and OLED Light should be kept low, hopefully I can somehow avoid it.
This is a TV I want to keep for at least 5 years so burn-in on first year is awful to hear.
 
Burn-in talk has me wondering my B7 but I think I won't cancel the order.. Hoping the 2017 models have better measures against the burn-in and now that I know even the UI can cause it and OLED Light should be kept low, hopefully I can somehow avoid it.
This is a TV I want to keep for at least 5 years so burn-in on first year is awful to hear.

Just get extended warranty!
 
Question on HDR / deep color

So lg oled needs to enable deep color on per hdmi port basis and I did this. Horizon zero dawn looks best with this, and all the video modes on PS4 are set to auto .

But uncharted 4 which I think has no hdr optimization (?) i noticed when I go underground after the bell falls down, it's so dark I can't see anything (much). Disabling deep color on the LG, the picture goes black then comes back as I remember it, I guess.
If I turn off hdr on the display output settings on the PS4, things don't change. (Didn't restart the game though):

So now I am confused .. is enabling deep color on the LG making dark areas look too dark unless the game/input content over hdmi has been coded for HDR ?

(I see others not liking hdr for uncharted. Maybe I need to turn up the brightness, in the game options or only play in a pitch black room).

Do you have a standard PS4 or a PS4 Pro?
 

Bustanen

Member
Burn-in talk has me wondering my B7 but I think I won't cancel the order.. Hoping the 2017 models have better measures against the burn-in and now that I know even the UI can cause it and OLED Light should be kept low, hopefully I can somehow avoid it.
This is a TV I want to keep for at least 5 years so burn-in on first year is awful to hear.
I think it might be even more susceptible to BI as it has the same panel but gets even brighter than previous models.

I recommend keeping the OLED light setting below 50 in everything other than HDR. Also avoid long viewings of news channels and games with bright color huds.
 

Kudo

Member
I think it might be even more susceptible to BI as it has the same panel but gets even brighter than previous models.

I recommend keeping the OLED light setting below 50 in everything other than HDR. Also avoid long viewings of news channels and games with bright color huds.

Probably not gonna watch regular TV on it at all, games with bright HUDs are going to be a problem so might have to lower the OLED Light for them just to be "safe".
Hopefully OLED Light under 50 will be enough for dark room viewing, I plan to buy darkening blinds.
 
Another dilemma I'd like some feedback on.

Given the choice between a 65 inch B6 or a 55 inch C7/E6, which would you choose? They're virtually the same price.

I reckon there's a case to be made for the larger size being a more noticeable benefit than the range of benefits both of the 55 inch models bring.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Another dilemma I'd like some feedback on.

Given the choice between a 65 inch B6 or a 55 inch C7/E6, which would you choose? They're virtually the same price.

I reckon there's a case to be made for the larger size being a more noticeable benefit than the range of benefits both of the 55 inch models bring.

The bigger the better tbh.
 
Another dilemma I'd like some feedback on.

Given the choice between a 65 inch B6 or a 55 inch C7/E6, which would you choose? They're virtually the same price.

I reckon there's a case to be made for the larger size being a more noticeable benefit than the range of benefits both of the 55 inch models bring.

That's not even a choice...virtually same PQ (at least E6 vs B6 unless you really care about 3D...and even if you do, 10 extra inches is a huge increase in immersion)
 

Kyoufu

Member
Question on HDR / deep color

So lg oled needs to enable deep color on per hdmi port basis and I did this. Horizon zero dawn looks best with this, and all the video modes on PS4 are set to auto .

But uncharted 4 which I think has no hdr optimization (?) i noticed when I go underground after the bell falls down, it's so dark I can't see anything (much). Disabling deep color on the LG, the picture goes black then comes back as I remember it, I guess.
If I turn off hdr on the display output settings on the PS4, things don't change. (Didn't restart the game though):

So now I am confused .. is enabling deep color on the LG making dark areas look too dark unless the game/input content over hdmi has been coded for HDR ?

(I see others not liking hdr for uncharted. Maybe I need to turn up the brightness, in the game options or only play in a pitch black room).

When the issue is that your image is too dark, you need to set the brightness higher so that you're not crushing blacks and shadow details. It doesn't have anything to do with Deep Colour being on or off.

Also check that your PS4 and TV match RGB/Black Level settings. Limited + Low or Full + High. I use the latter.
 

aravuus

Member
So I've been reading about LG B6 here and there since I'm going to be buying one soon. Dim HDR Game Mode picture doesn't (in theory) bother me much since I like to play in a dark-ish room anyway.

But I'm obviously slightly concerned about possible image burn-in. The B6 is an expensive purchase, I don't want to buy a new TV in just a year or two. So if I'm planning to, say, play a game that has a static and bright HUD or browse the internet or something for extended periods of time (3-4+ hrs), what's a good way to try and minimize possible image retention/burn-in aside from the obvious TV settings that are meant to reduce it? Would something like turning the TV off for 5-10 minutes every couple of hours help? Generally turning the TV off whenever I'm taking a break, be it a minute or two in the bathroom or 30 minutes eating lunch?
 

Marmelade

Member
I think it might be even more susceptible to BI as it has the same panel but gets even brighter than previous models.

I recommend keeping the OLED light setting below 50 in everything other than HDR. Also avoid long viewings of news channels and games with bright color huds.

As a plasma owner these are the things I don't want to ever have to do again.
Having to baby a TV sucks
 

Kyoufu

Member
So I've been reading about B6 here and there since I'm going to be buying one soon. Dim HDR Game Mode picture doesn't (in theory) bother me much since I like to play in a dark-ish room anyway.

But I'm obviously slightly concerned about possible image burn-in. If I'm planning to, say, play a game that has a static and bright HUD or browse the internet or something for extended periods of time (3-4+ hrs), what's a good way to try and minimize possible image retention/burn-in aside from the obvious TV settings that are meant to reduce it? Would something like turning the TV off for 5-10 minutes every couple of hours help?

Setting OLED Light to 50 or below would help tremendously I think. I have burn-in on my set which appears to be months and months old, probably back when I had OLED Light at 100 all the time.
 

aravuus

Member
Setting OLED Light to 50 or below would help tremendously I think. I have burn-in on my set which appears to be months and months old, probably back when I had OLED Light at 100 all the time.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind! What's the difference between the OLED Light and Brightness settings? Is the latter for the backlight or something, which I imagine wouldn't have an effect on burn-in so I could raise it as high as I feel like?

I'm hopelessly behind on TV technology lmao, haven't had to think about these things in years.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind! What's the difference between the OLED Light and Brightness settings? Is the latter for the backlight or something, which I imagine wouldn't have an effect on burn-in so I could raise it as high as I feel like?

I'm hopelessly behind on TV technology lmao, haven't had to think about these things in years.

There are two settings on LG's TVs called OLED Light and Brightness.

OLED Light controls the pixel light (or backlight if you prefer) and Brightness controls the black level which determines how dark your picture is or isn't. Brightness won't have any impact on burn-in or image retention, but OLED Light can as you're basically increasing or decreasing each pixel's luminosity.

I still have no idea how I got a Netflix logo burnt in on mine and how it took me 4+ months to notice it.

Of all the things I've done with this TV (gaming, browsing etc) a fucking Netflix logo!!!!!! lol
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Are dead/stuck pixels still an issue on the TVs we're talking about here? Since there are sooo many pixels on a 4K display it seems like it would be more likely that you'd get a few today compared to the 1080p days, unless the manufacturing processes and QA have significantly improved? Is it more of an issue on LCD or OLED TVs? Is it even noticeable on a 4K display, with such small pixels?
 
On my C6 I keep my OLED light pretty low, but in HDR mode it looks a lot less impressive with the OLED light down. Also, all the recommended settings I see online say that for HDR mode you should have the OLED light set to 100...then again I guess most of those recommended settings were put out before people started experiencing burn in problems.

Sucks that OLED owners have to compromise like this, only had my C6 a few weeks but I'm really paranoid about this now. It was pretty damn expensive so I plan to have this TV for years, would really suck to get some permanent burn in.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Are dead/stuck pixels still an issue on the TVs we're talking about here? Is it more of an issue on LCD or OLED TVs? Is it even noticeable on a 4K display?

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

You can find dead/stuck pixels on any display and they can be noticeable on 4K displays.
 

Kyoufu

Member
On my C6 I keep my OLED light pretty low, but in HDR mode it looks a lot less impressive with the OLED light down. Also, all the recommended settings I see online say that for HDR mode you should have the OLED light set to 100...then again I guess most of those recommended settings were put out before people started experiencing burn in problems.

Sucks that OLED owners have to compromise like this, only had my C6 a few weeks but I'm really paranoid about this now. It was pretty damn expensive so I plan to have this TV for years, would really suck to get some permanent burn in.

I never go below 100 for HDR. I mean, I played FFXV and some other games in HDR for hundreds of hours and never had any retention or burn-in with those games.

A fucking Netflix logo... *shakes fist*
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
Yes, yes, yes and yes.

You can find dead/stuck pixels on any display and they can be noticeable on 4K displays.

Ok. But, like, how common is it? Should I expect to find a few on the X930E I have on the way? And if I do, should I bother getting it replaced, or am I just as likely to get another one with similar issues?
 

Mrbob

Member
I can guarantee that it would be no different now than it was last year, an HDR10 LCD that can achieve 1000nits + and displaying 1000nit content does not need DV at all, it's all in the article, and like it says it's excellent for displays that have a lower peak brightness. I was saying It's a nice advantage for LCD's given how much 1000nit content is out there.

That's the other thing, all LCD's that can hit 1000nits + are high end anyway, and all have superb tone mapping.

Content is starting to get mastered above 1000 nits though, going up to 4000 nits. This is why HDR10+ is coming along too.

Better to have standards than each manufacturer do their own thing.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Ok. But, like, how common is it? Should I expect to find a few on the X930E I have on the way? And if I do, should I bother getting it replaced, or am I just as likely to get another one with similar issues?

I don't think they're terribly common but if you're unlucky you can get a panel with some. Would I worry? No, but I did worry about it when my E6 came through the door. It's just normal nerves when you're hoping for a "perfect" panel.

If you do get any stuck/dead pixels, try running the videos that can fix them and if that fails then return it to the store and get another one. You're more likely to get one without issues so I wouldn't sweat it.
 

aravuus

Member
On my C6 I keep my OLED light pretty low, but in HDR mode it looks a lot less impressive with the OLED light down. Also, all the recommended settings I see online say that for HDR mode you should have the OLED light set to 100...then again I guess most of those recommended settings were put out before people started experiencing burn in problems.

Sucks that OLED owners have to compromise like this, only had my C6 a few weeks but I'm really paranoid about this now. It was pretty damn expensive so I plan to have this TV for years, would really suck to get some permanent burn in.

Why wouldn't you have OLED Light at 100 when you're watching HDR content? There's zero chance of anything burning in when you're watching a show or a movie and I'd imagine this goes for games too, since most of them don't have ridiculously bright and static HUDs or anything like that.

If someone as profoundly unlucky as Kyoufu didn't get image burn-in from extended FFXV play sessions, I really doubt there's any reason to worry most of the time.
 
Content is starting to get mastered above 1000 nits though, going up to 4000 nits. This is why HDR10+ is coming along too.

Better to have standards than each manufacturer do their own thing.

Yeah definitely, and in that respect having DV on a TV is excellent; more and more films will be mastered to 4000nits. Very nice for X93E and ZD owners to have both.
 

BumRush

Member
My plasma was doing something alarming while watching this week's episode of GoT. The scene where
Jon and Dany and matching wits at Dragonstone
, the screen kept flickering between light and dark (imagine ~10% change in brightness). I haven't seen it on anything else, and GoT's HBO Go stream can be utter shit at times, but I'm still worried.
 
Why wouldn't you have OLED Light at 100 when you're watching HDR content? There's zero chance of anything burning in when you're watching a show or a movie and I'd imagine this goes for games too, since most of them don't have ridiculously bright and static HUDs or anything like that.

If someone as profoundly unlucky as Kyoufu didn't get image burn-in from extended FFXV play sessions, I really doubt there's any reason to worry most of the time.

Just a bit paranoid with all the burn in talk, and trying to play it safe. But good to know that at least for HDR content I most likely don't have to worry too much!
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
I don't think they're terribly common but if you're unlucky you can get a panel with some. Would I worry? No, but I did worry about it when my E6 came through the door. It's just normal nerves when you're hoping for a "perfect" panel.

If you do get any stuck/dead pixels, try running the videos that can fix them and if that fails then return it to the store and get another one. You're more likely to get one without issues so I wouldn't sweat it.

What would be the best way to test for it? Just display some different solid colors? I guess white should do it, that should reveal both dead and stuck ones.

I've never, ever had any luck with those "pixel fixers". I've had stuck pixels on phones, my old DS, etc, and nothing has ever helped. In those cases I've learned to accept it after a while, but this X930E was quite a bit more expensive than any of those, so I'd be very disappointed to get an imperfect panel.
 
Top Bottom