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Television Displays and Technology Thread: This is a fantasy based on OLED

K

Kyoufu

Member
i noticed some image retention or even possibly burn-in today on my E6. Only shows up on one colour and it's on the bottom right corner of the screen. What's weird is, it says "NETFLIX" but Netflix logos are never in the bottom right of the screen. I'm baffled. Going to run a comp cycle to see if it'll clear. I can't see it in normal content so I wonder when it actually became a thing. I haven't used Netflix in months haha. How did the logo get to that part of the screen and when?!

If anything, I would have expected CNN's logo to be there, not Netflix. Huh.

I could be eating a lot of crow if this doesn't go away... lol
 
D

DieH@rd

Banned
Mrbob said:
Yeah it will be curious what Sony does next year. Sony overshot the competition in it's price range with the x900e which Samsung did last year with their ks line. I hope Sony doesn't regress their line like Samsung did this year.
Click to expand...

I hope there will be more competition next year in low-end HDR range [sub-1000€].

Sony fumbled hard with IPS-driven XE80 this year, Samsung and LG's product are shit in that pricing range, and TLC has good entry TV, but it is available only in the US.
 
M

moltonasty

Member
GinoFelino said:
Hey, Kyoufu (and anyone else willing to chime in of course), random question. I'm curious what you'd recommend as an E6 owner.

The E6 and C7 are the same price where I live, and I'm having a hard time deciding between the two (I'm upgrading soon).

I'd appreciate the design, soundbar, 3D capability (3D blu-rays are cheap af right now) and more versatile legacy analog inputs of the E6, but the C7 with improved hardware and software features (Youtube HDR, better panel, 1080p 120Hz PC mode, low input lag in PC mode etc) is very tempting too.

What's your take, having the E6 and having used it extensively?
Click to expand...

As a C6 owner I'm biased, but the 3D is bar none the best I've ever seen, and for that alone I would recommend the E6 over C7. Seriously, the combination of OLED, 4K display and Passive 3D is unbelievably good.

Kyoufu said:
i noticed some image retention or even possibly burn-in today on my E6. Only shows up on one colour and it's on the bottom right corner of the screen. What's weird is, it says "NETFLIX" but Netflix logos are never in the bottom right of the screen. I'm baffled. Going to run a comp cycle to see if it'll clear. I can't see it in normal content so I wonder when it actually became a thing. I haven't used Netflix in months haha. How did the logo get to that part of the screen and when?!

If anything, I would have expected CNN's logo to be there, not Netflix. Huh.

I could be eating a lot of crow if this doesn't go away... lol
Click to expand...

Oh shit...I just got my C6 a few weeks ago and this is making me nervous! lol.
 
B

BumRush

Member
Kyoufu said:
i noticed some image retention or even possibly burn-in today on my E6. Only shows up on one colour and it's on the bottom right corner of the screen. What's weird is, it says "NETFLIX" but Netflix logos are never in the bottom right of the screen. I'm baffled. Going to run a comp cycle to see if it'll clear. I can't see it in normal content so I wonder when it actually became a thing. I haven't used Netflix in months haha. How did the logo get to that part of the screen and when?!

If anything, I would have expected CNN's logo to be there, not Netflix. Huh.

I could be eating a lot of crow if this doesn't go away... lol
Click to expand...

Could it have been the word Netflix from a list of Smart TV apps? Still strange...
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
BumRush said:
Could it have been the word Netflix from a list of Smart TV apps? Still strange...
Click to expand...

I have 0 devices other than the TV itself with Netflix on them so I'm really, really confused.

One thing I just noticed is that I had "Screen shift" option disabled. Don't turn that off, folks lol.
 
B

BumRush

Member
Kyoufu said:
I have 0 devices other than the TV itself with Netflix on them so I'm really, really confused.

One thing I just noticed is that I had "Screen shift" option disabled. Don't turn that off, folks lol.
Click to expand...

No, I mean on Web OS. Doesn't Netflix's icon appear small on the bottom of the screen?
 
G

GinoFelino

Member
Kyoufu said:
I can't see myself choosing the E6 over the newer C7, but I don't watch 3D movies. If that's really important to you then the E6 would the way to go. The question you should ask yourself is, do you see yourself keeping the TV long-term? If so, do you plan on watching 3D movies long-term? If no, get the C7. Both are great TVs though so you wouldn't be getting a dud either way.

You may also want to consider the ZD9 if it's at a similar price. Image quality is superb and it has 3D/Dolby Vision.
Click to expand...
ZD9 is way more expensive here, unfortunately.

Thanks for the answer. 3D is only part of the equation, but you're quite adamant in choosing the C7 over the E6 that you own, so that must mean something. What's the decisive factor in choosing the C7 for you? PQ improvements?


Yappadappadu said:
Hah, I'm asking myself the same question.
As a longtime E6 user I like to watch the 3D versions of new movie blu-ray releases, but having tested a B7 (same as C7, different stand), I also noticed the further improved input lag. The rest of the advantages are not that important to me (1080p 120 Hz), can be fixed by using an external device (Youtube HDR) or barely noticeable (lower ABL, less near black artefacts).
Where I live the 65C7 is currently about 1.000€ less than the 65E6D (german version with brightness sensor that I tend to use).
Click to expand...
Not sure I understand you there.

The near black artefact improvements and ABL are barely noticeable to you (as are all the other differences), but a 5 ms input lag improvement is a big deal to you? :) Did I understand that correctly?
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
BumRush said:
No, I mean on Web OS. Doesn't Netflix's icon appear small on the bottom of the screen?
Click to expand...

I thought about that but no, my Netflix icon is towards the left of the UI so it'd be impossible.

Also, WebOS's menus have an idle timer where the TV triggers the screensaver after 5-10 minutes.

Also just above the "N" is a small blotchy area. What is this nonsense?!

moltonasty said:
Wait, why not?
Click to expand...

I must have forgotten to enable it after messing around with settings. Oops.
 
Y

Yappadappadu

Member
GinoFelino said:
Not sure I understand you there.

The near black artefact improvements and ABL are barely noticeable to you (as are all the other differences), but a 5 ms input lag improvement is a big deal to you? :) Did I understand that correctly?
Click to expand...
It's 13 ms (34 for the E6 and 21 ms for the C7).
Coming from several Sony LCD TVs that all had max. 18 ms I feel more at home with the B7/C7 when it comes to gaming.
Not saying that playing on the E6 is the worst, but it's noticeable to me. Still a heck better than the 2015 LG OLEDs with abt. 50 ms.
 
M

moltonasty

Member
Kyoufu said:
I thought about that but no, my Netflix icon is towards the left of the UI so it'd be impossible.

Also, WebOS's menus have an idle timer where the TV triggers the screensaver after 5-10 minutes.

Also just above the "N" is a small blotchy area. What is this nonsense?!



I must have forgotten to enable it after messing around with settings. Oops.
Click to expand...

I meant why should we not turn it off? Does having it off increase your chance of burn in?
 
M

moltonasty

Member
Yappadappadu said:
It's 13 ms (34 for the E6 and 21 ms for the C7).
Coming from several Sony LCD TVs that all had max. 18 ms I feel more at home with the B7/C7 when it comes to gaming.
Not saying that playing on the E6 is the worst, but it's noticeable to me. Still a heck better than the 2015 LG OLEDs with abt. 50 ms.
Click to expand...

Game mode and HDR game mode on the C6 is fantastic IMO. I also own a G-Sync monitor so I know what a fast display feels like and the C6 input lag doesn't bother me one bit. Obviously it's not the fastest out there, but the picture quality is so good that it balances out for me.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
moltonasty said:
I meant why should we not turn it off? Does having it off increase your chance of burn in?
Click to expand...

It shifts the pixels periodically to prevent burn-in/retention, so it's best to keep it on.

The comp cycle didn't clear it btw. Hmmmmm. I'm not bothered because I can't see it in normal content but I find it really strange that a Netflix logo would be on the bottom right of the screen. Perplexing.
 
M

moltonasty

Member
Oh shit that's good to know. These burn in stories are making me paranoid about my recent purchase tbh. Hopefully it clears up on your set, I've seen some reports that it may take multiple comp cycles apparently.
 
B

BumRush

Member
This is NOT a knock on any specific TV, just modern TVs in general...why are there so many "rules" when watching content / with different inputs?

I mean, PC Input can do X, while HDMI 2 can do Y but brightness needs to be set at Z in order to see the content the way you need it (poor example maybe, but you get the point). I just don't understand why everything has to be so damn complicated.
 
K

Klotera

Member
BumRush said:
This is NOT a knock on any specific TV, just modern TVs in general...why are there so many "rules" when watching content / with different inputs?

I mean, PC Input can do X, while HDMI 2 can do Y but brightness needs to be set at Z in order to see the content the way you need it (poor example maybe, but you get the point). I just don't understand why everything has to be so damn complicated.
Click to expand...

This is a legitimate problem. For example, on Sony sets, you need to use the right HDMI ports (and why it's 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 2 or 3 and 4, I have no idea). On top of that, you have to go into settings and set that port to enhanced hdmi. While I'm sure it's all in the documentation somewhere, I guarantee the average person will miss it. They'll hook up their components, not get HDR, and say it looks basically the same as regular HDTV.
 
D

DOT DASH DOT

Member
Kyoufu said:
i noticed some image retention or even possibly burn-in today on my E6. Only shows up on one colour and it's on the bottom right corner of the screen. What's weird is, it says "NETFLIX" but Netflix logos are never in the bottom right of the screen. I'm baffled. Going to run a comp cycle to see if it'll clear. I can't see it in normal content so I wonder when it actually became a thing. I haven't used Netflix in months haha. How did the logo get to that part of the screen and when?!

If anything, I would have expected CNN's logo to be there, not Netflix. Huh.

I could be eating a lot of crow if this doesn't go away... lol
Click to expand...

On the Shield Netflix app it's bottom right.

20170801_203447p6jcj.jpg
 
D

DOT DASH DOT

Member
Klotera said:
This is a legitimate problem. For example, on Sony sets, you need to use the right HDMI ports (and why it's 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 2 or 3 and 4, I have no idea). On top of that, you have to go into settings and set that port to enhanced hdmi. While I'm sure it's all in the documentation somewhere, I guarantee the average person will miss it. They'll hook up their components, not get HDR, and say it looks basically the same as regular HDTV.
Click to expand...

Yeah I have to agree, on the 902 Panny you've got mode 1 and 2 hidden deep in the menu, so if it happens to be on mode 1, you ain't getting HDR.

Crazy, and very average Joe unfriendly.

Kyoufu said:
I don't have a Shield. :(

It's not that big either. I'm so confused!
Click to expand...

That is weird, not like you wouldn't know about the logo either.
 
sobaka770

sobaka770

Banned
DOT DASH DOT said:
Has anyone done any comparisons of an DV film on OLED vs HDR10 on an LCD?
Click to expand...

Read the despicable me 4k reviews. Most people say the difference is very noticeable.

I only compared Mass effect Andromeda by connecting my PC to my C6. Honestly, Dolby Vision destroys HDR10 so badly that I'm quite sad that adoption is so low. Don't listen to naysayers - Dolby Vision is a significant improvement.

Unfortunately I'm my opinion Netflix TV shows are too compressed to showcase the difference.
 
B

BumRush

Member
Klotera said:
This is a legitimate problem. For example, on Sony sets, you need to use the right HDMI ports (and why it's 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 2 or 3 and 4, I have no idea). On top of that, you have to go into settings and set that port to enhanced hdmi. While I'm sure it's all in the documentation somewhere, I guarantee the average person will miss it. They'll hook up their components, not get HDR, and say it looks basically the same as regular HDTV.
Click to expand...

DOT DASH DOT said:
Yeah I have to agree, on the 902 Panny you've got mode 1 and 2 hidden deep in the menu, so if it happens to be on mode 1, you ain't getting HDR.

Crazy, and very average Joe unfriendly.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And seriously, 99% of people who buy TVs are average joes. Only a small handful of the population cares enough to visit forums, etc.
 
Y

Yappadappadu

Member
J

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
sobaka770 said:
Read the despicable me 4k reviews. Most people say the difference is very noticeable.

I only compared Mass effect Andromeda by connecting my PC to my C6. Honestly, Dolby Vision destroys HDR10 so badly that I'm quite sad that adoption is so low. Don't listen to naysayers - Dolby Vision is a significant improvement.

Unfortunately I'm my opinion Netflix TV shows are too compressed to showcase the difference.
Click to expand...

For instance:

"Back and forth comparisons also reveal the Dolby Vision version is noticeably better than the HDR10 and the BD with a significantly richer, more vibrant color palette throughout."

"When compared to HDR10, Dolby Vision offers a notably wider array of secondary hues further complimenting an already spectacular picture and giving the overall presentation bit more pop. Sunset skies glow with an arrangement of magentas, creamsicle orange and fiery orange while the faint freckles on Angus and the liver spots on Dr. Nefario are far more apparent and discrete from the rest of the rosy peach skin tones. Viewers can even see the light wrinkles around the eyes of Gru because they're of a slightly darker shade, and Kyle actually shows teal-colored hairs..."

"Blacks also receive a marked improvement, looking darker and inkier in Dolby Vision than in the BD and HDR10 counterparts. With exceptional gradational differences between the various shades, viewers can better make out the wrinkles and threading in Gru's charcoal-grey jacket. Although the HDR10 version is pretty stunning in its own right, brightness levels seem a tad richer and realistic in Dolby Vision, allowing various leather-made objects to reveal a rough, pitted lifelike texture that further. And in Gru's underground lair, there's better visibility of the every object and piece of equipment in the Nefario's lab without losing the rich, penetrating darkness in the shadows, making this Dolby Vision HDR presentation one of the best and finest currently available. "
 
D

DOT DASH DOT

Member
sobaka770 said:
Read the despicable me 4k reviews. Most people say the difference is very noticeable.

I only compared Mass effect Andromeda by connecting my PC to my C6. Honestly, Dolby Vision destroys HDR10 so badly that I'm quite sad that adoption is so low. Don't listen to naysayers - Dolby Vision is a significant improvement.

Unfortunately I'm my opinion Netflix TV shows are too compressed to showcase the difference.
Click to expand...

jstevenson said:
For instance:

"Back and forth comparisons also reveal the Dolby Vision version is noticeably better than the HDR10 and the BD with a significantly richer, more vibrant color palette throughout."

"When compared to HDR10, Dolby Vision offers a notably wider array of secondary hues further complimenting an already spectacular picture and giving the overall presentation bit more pop. Sunset skies glow with an arrangement of magentas, creamsicle orange and fiery orange while the faint freckles on Angus and the liver spots on Dr. Nefario are far more apparent and discrete from the rest of the rosy peach skin tones. Viewers can even see the light wrinkles around the eyes of Gru because they're of a slightly darker shade, and Kyle actually shows teal-colored hairs..."

"Blacks also receive a marked improvement, looking darker and inkier in Dolby Vision than in the BD and HDR10 counterparts. With exceptional gradational differences between the various shades, viewers can better make out the wrinkles and threading in Gru's charcoal-grey jacket. Although the HDR10 version is pretty stunning in its own right, brightness levels seem a tad richer and realistic in Dolby Vision, allowing various leather-made objects to reveal a rough, pitted lifelike texture that further. And in Gru's underground lair, there's better visibility of the every object and piece of equipment in the Nefario's lab without losing the rich, penetrating darkness in the shadows, making this Dolby Vision HDR presentation one of the best and finest currently available. "
Click to expand...

Thing is that's OLED vs OLED, we need OLED DV and HDR10 vs LCD HDR10.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
I think this phantom Netflix logo is permanent. Burn-in on OLED confirmed :(

I say phantom because I have absolutely no idea how a Netflix logo would be on the bottom corner. I will never understand how this happened. :/
 
D

DOT DASH DOT

Member
Kyoufu said:
I think this phantom Netflix logo is permanent. Burn-in on OLED confirmed :(

I say phantom because I have absolutely no idea how a Netflix logo would be on the bottom corner. I will never understand how this happened. :/
Click to expand...

Can't you leave a white noise screen on all day and see how it is after that? Was always a good way on Plasma.
 
J

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
Kyoufu said:
I think this phantom Netflix logo is permanent. Burn-in on OLED confirmed :(

I say phantom because I have absolutely no idea how a Netflix logo would be on the bottom corner. I will never understand how this happened. :/
Click to expand...

what slide are you looking at?
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
DOT DASH DOT said:
Can't you leave a white noise screen on all day and see how it is after that? Was always a good way on Plasma.
Click to expand...

Never had burn in on my plasma. Do you mean this kind of video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0I4mTEdAf8

jstevenson said:
what slide are you looking at?
Click to expand...

This one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhed1YdIR-U

No idea why Netflix would be on the bottom right corner. Haven't used it in months and the app never had the logo on that portion of the screen. It's weird that I'm only noticing it now.
 
Caayn

Caayn

Member
Kyoufu said:
I think this phantom Netflix logo is permanent. Burn-in on OLED confirmed :(

I say phantom because I have absolutely no idea how a Netflix logo would be on the bottom corner. I will never understand how this happened. :/
Click to expand...
Do you happen to have the Disney WoW calibration disc? There's a good (1080p) pixel flipper on the disc.

Burn-in sounds strange to be honest, I'd give it a little time before declaring it burn-in.
 
G

GinoFelino

Member
Kyoufu said:
I think this phantom Netflix logo is permanent. Burn-in on OLED confirmed :(

I say phantom because I have absolutely no idea how a Netflix logo would be on the bottom corner. I will never understand how this happened. :/
Click to expand...
Did you do a cycle? All reported instances of burn-in are only temporary afaik.
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
GinoFelino said:
Did you do a cycle? All reported instances of burn-in are only temporary afaik.
Click to expand...

I'm on the 4th cycle atm.

Yes, 4th!

I'm so baffled at this. The rest of the panel looks clean. I would have expected a CNN logo not a Netflix logo. Hopefully the white noise helps.
 
J

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
Kyoufu said:
I'm on the 4th cycle atm.

Yes, 4th!

I'm so baffled at this. The rest of the panel looks clean. I would have expected a CNN logo not a Netflix logo. Hopefully the white noise helps.
Click to expand...

run a different red slide if you can, curious what would happen
 
K

Kyoufu

Member
jstevenson said:
run a different red slide if you can, curious what would happen
Click to expand...

Tried a darker one, it's there as well. I first noticed it when changing to the Patapon Remastered theme on PS4, with the red background during app transitions.

If this has been there for a while then I imagine it was caused by having OLED Light at 100 for many months. Not sure why and how the logo was there but still, OLED Light at maximum is probably not a good idea.

Makes me wonder about sports and news broadcasts being HDR enabled some day and if it'd increase the likelihood of image retention.
 
M

Mrbob

Member
DOT DASH DOT said:
Thing is that's OLED vs OLED, we need OLED DV and HDR10 vs LCD HDR10.
Click to expand...

The benefit of Dolby Vision is that it maps to the specs of your TV. When the Sony X930E gets updated with Dolby Vision it'll be to that TVs spec. I don't see any reason why it would be different for LCD.

The Sony Z9D and X930E are interesting for me too. Because I have a feeling those two will excel at Dolby Vision once the updates hit.
 
M

Metalstrike

Member
Kyoufu said:
Tried a darker one, it's there as well. I first noticed it when changing to the Patapon Remastered theme on PS4, with the red background during app transitions.

If this has been there for a while then I imagine it was caused by having OLED Light at 100 for many months. Not sure why and how the logo was there but still, OLED Light at maximum is probably not a good idea.

Makes me wonder about sports and news broadcasts being HDR enabled some day and if it'd increase the likelihood of image retention.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear about your retention/burn in. I agree with you about high OLED light probably being a culprit as I've mentioned mine getting burn in after playing Persona 5 for around 185 hours at light level 90. It does seem to be slightly fading after around 300 hours of further use and cycles but I'm not getting my hopes up of it going away. It only shows on red/orange backgrounds.

I encourage anyone who claims that they have zero burn in to check on a red/orange background before making that claim, if you're curious about your own panel of course!
 
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