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Tesla laying off more than 10% of staff globally as sales fall
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
The visibility of the truck windows looks terrible. Looks like you can’t see shit!
XXL
Member
The irony of this is the vehicle pretty much saved my life last year.RIP friend
I was driving about to go through an intersection and the car just slammed on the brakes out of nowhere and another car was going through the red light going really fast, that I never saw.
It would have T-boned the drivers side, going about 70kms.
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XXL
Member
Right now FSD I would say is above an average driver, but not as good as a really good driver. It has some minor logic issues that require intervention, but 98% of my driving done by FSD is pretty much flawless. The other day I had someone in the backseat drove around for about 45 mins (using FSD) traveling to our destination and they didn't even know I wasn't driving. It's pretty amazing.
Thaedolus
Member
I’m glad it worked and you didn’t get hurt. Mature automakers have had that feature since at least 2014, because that’s the year I experienced something similar in my parents’ Dodge Durango which auto braked for me. Also my Camry did the same thing like 2 months ago in a situation where I felt it was overly sensitive, so I found the setting to turn it down a bit because I was braking already. Here comes the but:
There’s like a billion other issues with Tesla’s quality control and examples of safety failures that make me never want to buy one. I’ll stick to my Toyotas and Volvos, and even Ram trucks where there’s maybe a bit of trade off in quality but have the capabilities I need for my situations.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I would never trust a car to do full autopilot.
But if my car had it, I'd give it a test doing parking assist. I've always been total trash parallel parking no matter how small the car is I'm driving. lol
But if my car had it, I'd give it a test doing parking assist. I've always been total trash parallel parking no matter how small the car is I'm driving. lol
Good to hear, I hope it continues to get better. There's just so many things that drivers mess up that I wish self driving would replace most driving. Then they could make the driving test really hard so only people that were good drivers got to drive the car themselves.(Watching people actually slow down to get on the highway is just mind boggling.)
Dirk Benedict
Member
Many industries across the board are doing layoffs. It's not just Tesla.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
For those of you looking to get an EV, this is a potential blessing. If demand is slowing, Tesla and other EV makers might start dropping the price to spur demand. I dont follow the industry but I think government grants come and go. If demand is trending down, it might make govs put back rebates making it even cheaper.
So wait it out and see what happens to the price.
So wait it out and see what happens to the price.
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XXL
Member
Just curiously, what do you feel it struggles with on city streets?
The only issues I've really had is it (rarely) being super adamant about being in a specific lane and it being hesitant when there is a high fence/tree line being off to the side while it's deciding to make a turn.
Btw, auto lane change is fucking amazing.
XXL
Member
I personally know many people who have different models of Telsa's. None of us have had any significant issues.
The only issue I've known someone experienced multiple times was the Model X wing doors having issues with the sensors, so they wouldn't close properly automatically.
I don't know anyone with Cybertruck yet, so I can't speak on that.
I know they had QC issues before in the past, but to my knowledge they don't seem to anymore (within reasonable expectations of any vehicle).
If you'd rather have a Toyota or a Volvo than a Model 3/Y/X/S, have at it.
ForAcademicPurposes
Gold Member
Here in Europe they offload their secondhand cars to Africa and other eastern European countries once the wealthy find a new car to cling on to. You can't do that with electric cars and hybrids because the infrastructure ain't present in the third world.
There's going to be a a giant scrapyard of EV's here because the same reason nobody would buy a used phone. Anyway. its interesting to see how things are going to pan out in the near future.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Tesla trashed the resale value of their cars by price dumping. So leasing / fleet companies are going to avoid them like the plague going forward. A real problem when (at least in Germany) over 90% of EVs are leased.
The whole battery capacity was already a problem for resale value (uncharted territory for most of Teslas live) but in combination really hurts them. Letting people go that produce products is different to MS letting people go but every service can continue as before.
The whole battery capacity was already a problem for resale value (uncharted territory for most of Teslas live) but in combination really hurts them. Letting people go that produce products is different to MS letting people go but every service can continue as before.
Nobody_Important
“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Laying off everyone but the person that they need to get rid of the most.
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Unfortunately that’s the way they do things
j0hnnix
Member
Thaedolus
Member
They still have many documented QC issues. Autopilot is cool, but not safely ready for prime time imo. On Cybertruck in particular, going stainless on the exterior is incredibly dumb, as documented by Tesla’s own cleaning recommendations and users reporting on already having rust issues. Also having a giant tablet display in the middle with a nonstandard UI to replace a standard gauge cluster that’s in front of you is dumb. Also not having normal driver input methods like a turn signal lever or having a drive by wire system which has been shown to be unreliable is dumb. (BTW, this was/is a problem other automakers have had too…going from what everyone was used to, to a knob or lever that you bump multiple times to shift gears rather than having multiple positions you move a lever to with tactile feedback. People are used to it now, I am with my Ram’s knob shifter, but I still don’t like it and this change was likely partially responsible for the death of the actor that played Chekov in the Star Trek reboot movies)
Having electric door openers where you need to know where there’s a manual release in an emergency is unsafe, and I believe I read on some models that the manual release only exists for the front passengers, which makes it extra unsafe.
In the industry I work in, we have to do human factor studies with actual end users to prove that new designs and methods won’t introduce additional risk of misuse of devices which could harm patients…and it boggles my mind that with Teslas, they’re just out there with all this nonstandard bullshit that runs counter to muscle memory for basic things like how do you use a turn signal or open a door. Any other brand of car, in any other country I’m traveling to, I’m not gonna have to figure out something weird in an emergency like is this the button to roll down the window or open my door?
Don’t get me wrong, I think going electric is the future and Tesla has certainly shown it’s viable and the cars have some cool innovative features. But I also think they’re all ugly, especially Cybertruck, and there are reasons other auto manufacturers have chosen to not make some of the choices Tesla made, because they’re unsafe. And the tech bro attitude of “we’ll figure that out later” with a software update doesn’t really cut it when I’m strapping my children into a vehicle.
So yeah, I’m sticking with other manufacturers that have mature quality management systems and designs
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OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Who can afford these things? With the interest rates being where they are getting even a used car is a struggle now.
*Nightwing
Member
Electric cars will never be more economical than combustion engines in both construction and energy spent per mile driven like we have known for over 100 years now.
Every electric car company eventually failing without being wholly subsidized by someone is the only historical outcome each and every time.
Time always reveals the truth eventually, too bad humanity is stupid and forgets it
Every electric car company eventually failing without being wholly subsidized by someone is the only historical outcome each and every time.
Time always reveals the truth eventually, too bad humanity is stupid and forgets it
Thaedolus
Member
Nah, electric is definitely the future, and Tesla and Musk, whom I’ve come to deplore lately, still deserve credit for pushing us there. The problems with Tesla aren’t because it’s an electric car company, they’re because it’s a young company being run like a tech bro software company and its president may or may not be a checked out drug addled social media obsessed idiot.
You can only get so much energy from a gallon of gasoline or diesel, which are finite in supply and prone to huge shifts in price. Meanwhile, novel and better existing methods for generating renewable energy come online every day. And that doesn’t even address the environmental impact of fossil fuels, where 100% of that gas or diesel is going into the air we breath, while the percentage of electricity coming from fossil fuels decreases every day.
XXL
Member
Standard Autopilot did that.
I haven't had any close calls with FSD yet, but FSD just in general is more responsive so I wouldn't be surprised if it's even better at that kind of stuff.
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bronkonagurski
Gold Member
Indeed. My now former employer laid off 5% recently and I was part of that group (financial services industry).
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
And they stopped delivering Cybertrucks as the acceleration pedal can dislodge and gets stuck. What a week for them.
EU‘s legacy carmakers aren’t. But some of them also said that EV adoption will cool off and raise slowly - got flack for saying that even.
EU‘s legacy carmakers aren’t. But some of them also said that EV adoption will cool off and raise slowly - got flack for saying that even.
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Thaedolus
Member
Just one example of a rookie design mistake you could comfortably say an older automaker with a longer history likely wouldn’t make. Also, maybe there have been a few good reasons trucks have a certain layout/design to them which hasn’t deviated much…I dunno, just spitballing as someone who’s worked with R&D in manufacturing and design quality over the years
Ownage
Member
It's not that I don't like Tesla or Elon, I do. They make interesting cars and he's an interesting figure. Tesla and Toyota/Lexus should get together and make better vehicles.
I hate the woke Karen virtue signalers who think that their EV is saving the environment, and many of them choose Tesla as their signal platform.
I hate the woke Karen virtue signalers who think that their EV is saving the environment, and many of them choose Tesla as their signal platform.
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Pretty much one of the huge advantages of electric cars is the idea of energy currency which you basically are getting at. If I want to buy something at the store as long as I didn't commit a crime to get the money nobody cares where I got the money for my purchase. The same applies to electric cars. If I have a gas car my energy comes from gas. If I have an electric car my energy could have come from numerous places (gasoline, coal, nuke) and it can be changed at any time. (Kind the same idea if you switch jobs. Money is coming in from a new source, it doesn't matter to the person getting the money. However if you switch from farming wheat to corn maybe the person that you want to trade with doesn't want the corn.)
Thaedolus
Member
My brother in law was trying to say last year “what’s the point of an EV if you’re still just burning coal or gas at the power plant you charge it from?”
And I said exactly what I said here: you’re not. 100% of an ICE’s fuel goes into the air, and if you’ve ever heard of solar, wind, nuclear, etc. then you know an electric car’s energy is coming from something with at a minimum fewer emission, and they get fewer every day. Hell, my parents spent like $60k installing solar and batteries in their house and can charge an EV. How is that not progress?
And I just saw that the US’s per capita carbon emissions are back down to like 1910 levels and dropping. This stuff is working. And Musk and Tesla deserve some credit for it, my other opinions about them aside
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That's just a capitalist society, man. Leadership fucks up, but you're the one that gets fucked.
*Nightwing
Member
Time will tell, and history is a good reference point for how it will end up including the continuing improvement of mpg of combustion engines despite “being at the limit of technology “ yet continuing to improve decade over decade. And how companies dependent upon gov subsidies to survive, rarely ever survive once those subsidies are removed.
As to envoimental sustainability Cobalt mining destroys that argument entirely.
Time will tell and history points to one likely outcome that is electric cars are a fad that is unsustainable
Thaedolus
Member
This is flabbergasting. You’re not going to be able to keep making ICEs produce more energy per gallon even if they can get cars to get more MPG. Brand new 6 cylinder twin turbo tech in a truck is great just driving around town, but when you’re putting them under load they still burn up gas like a V8. And then they’re so complicated they tend to be less reliable. It’s obvious there’s going to be a limit to what you get out of them, while battery tech has room to improve and there’s a shit ton of minerals to provide for that without burning fossil fuels and releasing all of that into the atmosphere. The sun will keep shining and the wind will keep blowing long after oil wells dry up. And again, the improvements we’ve made in renewable energy production are obvious and measurable considering the US, as probably the most energy hungry country in the world is now back down to 1910 levels of carbon output per capita.
Calling it a fad is Luddite thought
Lukaku's First Touch
Member
I'll never buy a Testla in my life from that Russian loving prick.
*Nightwing
Member
Please don’t be disingenuous and quote me correctly
It’s an unsustainable fad
Also resorting to as hominem attacks rather than discussing and using critical thinking to offer a differing point of view is ceasing and abandoning discourse, implying you’re own lack of faith in your own argument.
Thaedolus
Member
I apologize for not including the unsustainable part and if you feel like that was disingenuous of me. It wasn’t my intention to be disingenuous; but with that said I don’t think it changes anything I’d have said. Also ad hominem refers to attacking a person rather than the argument, while what I was doing was directing the Luddite comment toward the thought process, not calling you a Luddite. There is a difference there.
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Mortisfacio
Member
Tesla cuts 5-10% of staff every 2-3 years. This isn't really new. Private companies shed expense in downturns (for nearly every company, wages and benefits are the #1 expense of budget). Union/government jobs just hold onto bloat and is a large part of why they're so inefficient. Taxpayers have no say there, though. The dead weight just keeps collecting a paycheck on your dime.
ICEs are unsustainable as well, so where do you suggest we go?
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
So, is this indicative of the electric car issues or the economy in general? I’m leaning to the latter.
Thaedolus
Member
Probably depends on what country you’re in. Mine’s looking pretty good:
US to grow at double the rate of G7 peers this year, says IMF
Fund also upgrades inflation forecasts as strong demand and tight labour market delay possible Fed rate cuts
www.ft.com
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
I’ve seen that about the USA and it seems to be rather strange. People are screaming that the sky is falling but growth is high. It seems there is disconnect, or rather several.Probably depends on what country you’re in. Mine’s looking pretty good:
US to grow at double the rate of G7 peers this year, says IMF
Fund also upgrades inflation forecasts as strong demand and tight labour market delay possible Fed rate cuts
*Nightwing
Member
Electromagnetic propulsion via superheavy element de-radiating
But that’s decades possibly centuries away, until then continued improvement in ICE via AI research
Tesla's business is really struggling, at least in the world of hyper-growth megacap companies that Tesla tries to be in. Their product line is stale, with the Models S and Y being ancient by now. They can't seem to create a new vehicle and get it produced at scale with any kind of speed, with concepts like a mass-produced Tesla Semi constantly slipping behind schedule. Demand for EV vehicles is dropping and Chinese makers like BYD are forcing them into a price war over what diminished demand there is. Tesla's lack of advertising and dealerships to let people try out their cars is really hurting now and their go-to solution to drum up demand has been to cut prices and see their profit margins drop. The Cybertruck is a nightmare to produce due to its angular design and that's why they roll off the assembly line looking like they're each uniquely off-spec.
I'm surprised Tesla's stock is holding up as well as it is, with the problems they have I could have imagined a quick drop to the low $100's. There's nothing the market hates more than a growth company that's not growing.
I'm surprised Tesla's stock is holding up as well as it is, with the problems they have I could have imagined a quick drop to the low $100's. There's nothing the market hates more than a growth company that's not growing.
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