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[Blade2.0]

Electromagnetic propulsion via superheavy element de-radiating

But that’s decades possibly centuries away, until then continued improvement in ICE via AI research

We don't really have decades or centuries, though. Burning fuel at this rate is bad for the world. At least everything living on it.

 

[RJMacready73]

Nah, electric is definitely the future, and Tesla and Musk, whom I’ve come to deplore lately, still deserve credit for pushing us there. The problems with Tesla aren’t because it’s an electric car company, they’re because it’s a young company being run like a tech bro software company and its president may or may not be a checked out drug addled social media obsessed idiot.

You can only get so much energy from a gallon of gasoline or diesel, which are finite in supply and prone to huge shifts in price. Meanwhile, novel and better existing methods for generating renewable energy come online every day. And that doesn’t even address the environmental impact of fossil fuels, where 100% of that gas or diesel is going into the air we breath, while the percentage of electricity coming from fossil fuels decreases every day.

You need to watch a documentary on Chinese Cobalt mines in the Congo, that shit is beyond fucked up not to mention there isn't enough rare earth materials to make EVs to replace all the ICE engines, going around thinking you're doing one for the environment is beyond ludicrous, the environmental impact is just as awful no more so for the poor souls digging it up by their hands for pennies

 

[Thaedolus]

You need to watch a documentary on Chinese Cobalt mines in the Congo, that shit is beyond fucked up not to mention there isn't enough rare earth materials to make EVs to replace all the ICE engines, going around thinking you're doing one for the environment is beyond ludicrous, the environmental impact is just as awful no more so for the poor souls digging it up by their hands for pennies

Replacing every ICE isn’t necessarily the ask though. Significantly reducing their use alone could be enough. I think a flaw in many arguments is that if we don’t have some sort of perfect replacement option, then what’s the point? But real life is about creating and accepting incremental improvements which continue to get better over time.

 

[*Nightwing]

We don't really have decades or centuries, though. Burning fuel at this rate is bad for the world. At least everything living on it.

This:

You need to watch a documentary on Chinese Cobalt mines in the Congo, that shit is beyond fucked up not to mention there isn't enough rare earth materials to make EVs to replace all the ICE engines, going around thinking you're doing one for the environment is beyond ludicrous, the environmental impact is just as awful no more so for the poor souls digging it up by their hands for pennies

EV’s are far more damaging when including complete lifecycle of every part of its manufacturing + electrical grid demands to the world. ICE are far more sustainable and less damaging. But feel free to be short sighted and cherry pick information…. It’s not like it’s going to come back and bite humanity in the ass for ignoring the totality of the data in the long term in favor for politics is it?

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Electric cars will never be more economical than combustion engines in both construction and energy spent per mile driven like we have known for over 100 years now.

Every electric car company eventually failing without being wholly subsidized by someone is the only historical outcome each and every time.

Time always reveals the truth eventually, too bad humanity is stupid and forgets it

I've spent several years now investing in and researching the EV/lithium/battery metals. The cars are getting a lot cheaper (see BYD and their booming sales), the batteries are getting much better (see CATL's tech - the world number 1 EV battery maker) and the charging is getting a lot faster with charging stations increasing quickly, as well as home charging rates.

New Ford Explorer: sub-£40k start price and 374 miles of range | Autocar

Delayed EV is "a better vehicle now" than it would have been if it launched six months ago, as planned

www.autocar.co.uk

Lithium demand has been increasing year after year and is expected to keep increasing a lot up until about 2035.

Many countries have ended the EV subsidies but the demand for them is still good despite the high costs. All major vehicle manufacturers are investing heavily into EVs.

Over the next 10-20 years as they get cheaper and better you'll be seeing a lot more uptake of them. Then if hydrogen tech finally delivers it may ulitmately phase out EVs.

Ultimately I am against net zero and the enforcement of EVs, but I am just pointing out the trend playing out right now.

 

[GHG]

We don't really have decades or centuries, though. Burning fuel at this rate is bad for the world. At least everything living on it.

You're not seeing the bigger picture at play with both EV manufacturing and charging.

There is no free lunch here.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I have no interest in current EVs for numerous reasons.

But down the road, when car selection improves, and that stuff you hear about Toyota's solid state battery, or hydrogen (which both sound way better than current EV), I'll take a look then. I think the solid state battery stuff is supposed to be around a 2030 thing. Over 1,000 km per charge, and a charge is only 10 min long.

 

[Thaedolus]

I have no interest in current EVs for numerous reasons.

But down the road, when car selection improves, and that stuff you hear about Toyota's solid state battery, or hydrogen (which both sound way better than current EV), I'll take a look then. I think the solid state battery stuff is supposed to be around a 2030 thing. Over 1,000 km per charge, and a charge is only 10 min long.

That’s where I’m at, or Ram’s upcoming “Ram Charger” EV, which includes a full on V6 gas motor as a range extender/generator…I feel like for a truck to do truck things like towing and hauling, that’s going to be a must. An EV truck isn’t worth shit to me if I have to stop and charge every 100 miles because that’s about how far they go towing. But that doesn’t mean we won’t get there sooner than later.

 

[Tams]

Here in Europe they offload their secondhand cars to Africa and other eastern European countries once the wealthy find a new car to cling on to. You can't do that with electric cars and hybrids because the infrastructure ain't present in the third world.

There's going to be a a giant scrapyard of EV's here because the same reason nobody would buy a used phone. Anyway. its interesting to see how things are going to pan out in the near future.

I feel that lots of people who have EVs haven't cottoned on to that yet. They are going to be in for a rude awakening ('it'll cost hiw much to replace the battery?!').

That said, our credit overlords will be working hard to get people to buy brand new vehicles, so people will just do that (seriously, since coming back to the UK, I've been shocked at the number of expensive vehicles on the roads these days).

What with the economy though, I don't see a lot of people willing to get themselves in such debt.

 

[JimmyRustler]

That's just a capitalist society, man. Leadership fucks up, but you're the one that gets fucked.

But isn’t leadership also responsible for there being that many jobs created?

 

[Thaedolus]

But isn’t leadership also responsible for there being that many jobs created?

Somewhat, but also being at the right place at the right time and benefitting from countless unseen people doing their jobs, hundreds of years of infrastructure paid for by those workers’ taxes, and work all around us that we all take for granted.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Somewhat, but also being at the right place at the right time and benefitting from countless unseen people doing their jobs, hundreds of years of infrastructure paid for by those workers’ taxes, and work all around us that we all take for granted.

You could say the same thing when people are laid off. Chance/luck is always a big factor.

 

[JCK75]

People invest in a car wanting it to last a long time and have a reasonable trade-in/resell value.. Electric cars will never be affordable by anyone but the ultra rich..
Maint costs are insane, and thermal runaway risks make me never want one (if it happens while it's in your garage.. your house is gone)

 

[The ninja farmer]

I work in the car industry and personally.

Come back to me when the cars are at ‘more acceptable pricing levels’, charge stations are more readily available and when you do charge. This takes 10-20 mins and delivers 500+ actual miles of range

Till then. Modern hybrids I think are the way to go. Electric only for under 40 mph and a combined near 3 figure fuel consumption per gallon, with steady mixed driving

I see lots of expensive cars with ranges of a max 300 miles on a charge. Thats just not enough and the charge reduction based on battery cycles is a hurdle that needs cleared (as does the extra thermal risks).

 

[Thaedolus]

You could say the same thing when people are laid off. Chance/luck is always a big factor.

Or it’s a choice made by people above them who would rather lay people off than maybe sacrifice a bit of their own wealth to make sure people below them can eat rather than buying a new yacht next quarter.

 

[Thaedolus]

I work in the car industry and personally.

Come back to me when the cars are at ‘more acceptable pricing levels’, charge stations are more readily available and when you do charge. This takes 10-20 mins and delivers 500+ actual miles of range

Till then. Modern hybrids I think are the way to go. Electric only for under 40 mph and a combined near 3 figure fuel consumption per gallon, with steady mixed driving

I see lots of expensive cars with ranges of a max 300 miles on a charge. Thats just not enough and the charge reduction based on battery cycles is a hurdle that needs cleared (as does the extra thermal risks).

This is why I bought a hybrid last fall, right now I think it’s the right balance as battery tech develops further

 

[NinjaMouse]

I work in the car industry and personally.

Come back to me when the cars are at ‘more acceptable pricing levels’, charge stations are more readily available and when you do charge. This takes 10-20 mins and delivers 500+ actual miles of range

Till then. Modern hybrids I think are the way to go. Electric only for under 40 mph and a combined near 3 figure fuel consumption per gallon, with steady mixed driving

I see lots of expensive cars with ranges of a max 300 miles on a charge. Thats just not enough and the charge reduction based on battery cycles is a hurdle that needs cleared (as does the extra thermal risks).

I've been driving a Model Y for over 2 years now and I 100% agree with this sentiment. A hybrid is likely where our foreseeable future will settle. I always tell people that EVs are great 350 days a year, but those 15 other days are a colossal pain in the ass that you'll almost wonder what you're doing driving it. Road trips in anywhere other than near perfect weather and landscape are very infeasible. Try driving this in the winter up north or in the summer out in west Texas where it's 115ºF outside and the speed limit is 80MPH. You'll see your range drop to 150-ish miles between charges.

Forget the fact that mine is rated at 283 miles per charge, and I don't think I've ever seen more than 220 or so.

 

[Blade2.0]

But isn’t leadership also responsible for there being that many jobs created?

No, demands for the job determines that. Leadership is usually the ones that layoff people and make everyone else work extra hard so they can keep out another cent.

 

[JimmyRustler]

No, demands for the job determines that. Leadership is usually the ones that layoff people and make everyone else work extra hard so they can keep out another cent.

But isn’t the news saying global demand is down and hence the layoffs?

 

[Blade2.0]

But isn’t the news saying global demand is down and hence the layoffs?

Wouldn't that still be on leadership for not seeing it coming? I feel like if you want to get rid if 10% of workers you should have to get rid of 10% of the leadership as well. Let them take on the risks too.

 

[ForAcademicPurposes]

I feel that lots of people who have EVs haven't cottoned on to that yet. They are going to be in for a rude awakening ('it'll cost hiw much to replace the battery?!').

That said, our credit overlords will be working hard to get people to buy brand new vehicles, so people will just do that (seriously, since coming back to the UK, I've been shocked at the number of expensive vehicles on the roads these days).

What with the economy though, I don't see a lot of people willing to get themselves in such debt.

The only reason that they've caught on here is because they are exempt from regular car taxes (which is the kerb weight of the car) but that is going to change soon within the coming here and it's going to be glorious. They're all lease cars anyway. Nobody can really afford these things anyway.

 

[jason10mm]

Time will tell, and history is a good reference point for how it will end up including the continuing improvement of mpg of combustion engines despite “being at the limit of technology “ yet continuing to improve decade over decade. And how companies dependent upon gov subsidies to survive, rarely ever survive once those subsidies are removed.

As to envoimental sustainability Cobalt mining destroys that argument entirely.


Time will tell and history points to one likely outcome that is electric cars are a fad that is unsustainable

Not only that, but is it true that the increased weight (compared to an equivalent performing ICE vehicle) of the batteries over a gas tank/motor leads to increased brake pad wear and THATs the most polluting part these days? Where do the old batteries go? What percentage of EVs are still on the road compared to ICE vehicle at the same age (5 years old, 10, etc) and where do "retired" EV cars go compared to ICE cars?

I think trying to get to a 'better' personal car is a lost game. We need to transition to a shared car system and more acceptable/convenient mass transit for peak times and get FEWER CARS in general, not an incrementally (?? at best) better car en mass.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I work in the car industry and personally.

Come back to me when the cars are at ‘more acceptable pricing levels’, charge stations are more readily available and when you do charge. This takes 10-20 mins and delivers 500+ actual miles of range

Till then. Modern hybrids I think are the way to go. Electric only for under 40 mph and a combined near 3 figure fuel consumption per gallon, with steady mixed driving

I see lots of expensive cars with ranges of a max 300 miles on a charge. Thats just not enough and the charge reduction based on battery cycles is a hurdle that needs cleared (as does the extra thermal risks).

I dont know how true or fluffy the claims are. But if Toyota's promotion of solid state batteries having triple the distance at 10 minutes charges comes true in 2030, I might hop on the train.

But that also assumes, the cars I want come in EV. Right now even if someone wanted an EV car, there's only so much selection.

 

[Thaedolus]

Finally saw a Cybertruck in the wild driving to the hardware store today. It looks dumb as hell but slightly better than you’d think because the owner had sense to wrap it.

 

[Tams]

I dont know how true or fluffy the claims are. But if Toyota's promotion of solid state batteries having triple the distance at 10 minutes charges comes true in 2030, I might hop on the train.

But that also assumes, the cars I want come in EV. Right now even if someone wanted an EV car, there's only so much selection.

On a personal level, that's my issue.

I love manual. Yes, a computer can do it better than me, but I like the feeling of control and the alertness manual requires.

Sadly, despite it being easier than ever to emulate that with EVs, only a very few high end models have it.

 

[Tams]

Cobalt-free batteries have been developed, and if I recall correctly, may well enter mass production soon. That said, the odds that they use another mineral that comes from horrible mines...

Solid state batteries are also sort of coming along, as well graphene (any day now, lol).

The problem with EVs is also the demand on power grids. Advocates love to shut down anyone who questions this, usually in nasty, duplicitous ways - 'of course there's enough power!'

The truth is, we need a bit of everything. Hydrogen is looking promising, but EVs and ICEs (both petroleum and biofuel) too.

Perhaps EVs would be best for small urban vehicles? Afterall, in the UK milk floats have been fine as EVs for decades (running on lead acid batteries for most of that!) The issue is we would need to rethink our urban layouts and planning.

 

[lmimmfn]

Source

Every time I see that truck it reminds me of Cyberpunk 2077 on PS4.

 

[XXL]

Perhaps EVs would be best for small urban vehicles? Afterall, in the UK milk floats have been fine as EVs for decades (running on lead acid batteries for most of that!) The issue is we would need to rethink our urban layouts and planning.

I know there are roads being developed (forget where) that charge EVs while driving.

 

[Rentahamster]

Electromagnetic propulsion via superheavy element de-radiating

But that’s decades possibly centuries away, until then continued improvement in ICE via AI research

EV’s are far more damaging when including complete lifecycle of every part of its manufacturing + electrical grid demands to the world. ICE are far more sustainable and less damaging. But feel free to be short sighted and cherry pick information…. It’s not like it’s going to come back and bite humanity in the ass for ignoring the totality of the data in the long term in favor for politics is it?

Why are you so confident about being able to improve internal combustion engine tech while being so pessimistic about the future of battery tech? Both technologies still have more potential to become cleaner in both their end use and manufacturing supply chains.

 

[EverydayBeast]

The tesla and electric cars are a culture thing for a long while they were thought to be a heavy presence of electric charging stations and in that regard it's been a huge let down.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I've spent several years now investing in and researching the EV/lithium/battery metals. The cars are getting a lot cheaper (see BYD and their booming sales), the batteries are getting much better (see CATL's tech - the world number 1 EV battery maker) and the charging is getting a lot faster with charging stations increasing quickly, as well as home charging rates.

New Ford Explorer: sub-£40k start price and 374 miles of range | Autocar

Delayed EV is "a better vehicle now" than it would have been if it launched six months ago, as planned

www.autocar.co.uk

Lithium demand has been increasing year after year and is expected to keep increasing a lot up until about 2035.

Many countries have ended the EV subsidies but the demand for them is still good despite the high costs. All major vehicle manufacturers are investing heavily into EVs.

Over the next 10-20 years as they get cheaper and better you'll be seeing a lot more uptake of them. Then if hydrogen tech finally delivers it may ulitmately phase out EVs.

Ultimately I am against net zero and the enforcement of EVs, but I am just pointing out the trend playing out right now.

EV's had a 10% of the global market share in 2023 (new sold cars ww), while heavily subsidized and have cooled off this past quarter significantly.

At a time where China tried to counter their slacking growth with massive amounts of exports in addition to price dumping their EV's (state sponsored) around the world. Demand has been so bad Tesla had to cut its workforce by 10% including workers who build the product.

The dream of exponential EV growth got a reality slap this year.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

EV's had a 10% of the global market share in 2023 (new sold cars ww), while heavily subsidized and have cooled off this past quarter significantly.

At a time where China tried to counter their slacking growth with massive amounts of exports in addition to price dumping their EV's (state sponsored) around the world. Demand has been so bad Tesla had to cut its workforce by 10% including workers who build the product.

The dream of exponential EV growth got a reality slap this year.

Probably because it got to a point of saturation. So despite gov rebates, improving technology and charging locations and car selection, there's only so many people who truly want an EV.

It's like Go Pro. When that company first got on the radar, it was a tech darling. Giant growth. Turns out there's only so many adventure seekers in the world willing to strap a GPRO to a helmet to show off daring stunts. So sales leveled off. The company hasnt grown revenue in 10 years. In fact, it's gone down.

GoPro's global revenue 2023 | Statista

Between 2012 and 2023, GoPro's global revenue fluctuated.

www.statista.com

 

[*Nightwing]

Why are you so confident about being able to improve internal combustion engine tech while being so pessimistic about the future of battery tech? Both technologies still have more potential to become cleaner in both their end use and manufacturing supply chains.

Physics + history

With EV’s there is a glaring flaw in energy consumption that probably due to my point on the autism slider I can’t understand how everyone that looks at the totality of the data ignores: batteries always give less energy than they take in currently at 12-15% more energy taken in to charge than a battery can give out per charge. Add all their other downsides mentioned and really, how does everyone not see it as a fad and ultimately lesser than everything else as has been determined in every point in history EVs have been attempted thus far? If you are telling me the energy grid is net zero or even on its way to try but in reality it’s all fossil fuel based and not changing anytime soon, so what gain in environmental protection is there?

EV’s won’t be realistic to me until they pass the 1 to 1 charging threshold at a minimum. (Edit: I don’t believe passing this threshold is physically possible, hence my low opinion on EV) I also consider hybrids as ICE not EV, so hopefully that explains why I’m so confidently negative on EV vs continued improving ICE