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Thanks gravitons, now we may have a multiverse to deal with

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Kimawolf

Member
http://www.newscientist.com/article...th-glimpse-of-big-bang-ripples.html?full=true


Wave hello to the multiverse? Ripples in the very fabric of the cosmos, unveiled this week, are allowing us to peer further back in time than anyone thought possible, showing us what was happening in the first slivers of a second after the big bang.

The discovery of these primordial waves could solidify the idea that our young universe went through a rapid growth spurt called inflation. And that theory is linked to the idea that the universe is constantly giving birth to smaller "pocket" universes within an ever-expanding multiverse.

The waves in question are called gravitational waves, and they appear in Einstein's highly successful theory of general relativity. On 17 March, scientists working with the BICEP2 telescope in Antarctica announced the first indirect detection of primordial gravitational waves. This version of the ripples was predicted to be visible in maps of the cosmic microwave background (CMB), the earliest light emitted in the universe, roughly 380,000 years after the big bang.

"If confirmed, this result would constitute the most important breakthrough in cosmology over the past 15 years. It will open a new window into the beginning of our universe and have fundamental implications for extensions of the standard model of physics," says Avi Loeb at Harvard University. "If it is real, the signal will likely lead to a Nobel prize."

And for some theorists, simply proving that inflation happened at all would be a sign of the multiverse.

"If inflation is there, the multiverse is there," said Andrei Linde of Stanford University in California, who is not on the BICEP2 team and is one of the originators of inflationary theory. "Each observation that brings better credence to inflation brings us closer to establishing that the multiverse is real."


The simplest models of inflation, which the BICEP2 results seem to support, require a particle called an inflaton to push space-time apart at high speed.

"Inflation depends on a kind of material that turns gravity on its head and causes it to be repulsive," says Alan Guth at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, another author of inflationary theory. Theory says the inflaton particle decays over time like a radioactive element, so for inflation to work, these hypothetical particles would need to last longer than the period of inflation itself. Afterwards, inflatons would continue to drive inflation in whatever pockets of the universe they inhabit, repeatedly blowing new universes into existence that then rapidly inflate before settling down. This "eternal inflation" produces infinite pocket universes to create a multiverse.

Quantum harmony

For now, physicists don't know how they might observe the multiverse and confirm that it exists. "But when the idea of inflation was proposed 30 years ago, it was a figment of theoretical imagination," says Marc Kamionkowski at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland. "What I'm hoping is that with these results, other theorists out there will start to think deeply about the multiverse, so that 20 years from now we can have a press conference saying we've found evidence of it."

In the meantime, studying the properties of the swirls in the CMB might reveal details of what the cosmos was like just after its birth. The power and frequency of the waves seen by BICEP2 show that they were rippling through a particle soup with an energy of about 1016 gigaelectronvolts, or 10 trillion times the peak energy expected at the Large Hadron Collider. At such high energies, physicists expect that three of the four fundamental forces in physics – the strong, weak and electromagnetic forces – would be merged into one.

One possible wrinkle is that previous temperature maps of the CMB suggested that the signal from primordial gravitational waves should be much weaker that what BICEP2 is seeing. Those results set theorists bickering about whether inflation really happened and whether it could create a multiverse. Several physicists suggested that we scrap the idea entirely for a new model of cosmic birth.

Taken alone, the BICEP2 results give a strong-enough signal to clinch inflation and put the multiverse back in the game. But the tension with previous maps is worrying, says Paul Steinhardt at Princeton University, who helped to develop the original theory of inflation but has since grown sceptical of it.

"If you look at the best-fit models with the new data added, they're bizarre," Steinhardt says. "If it remains like that, it requires adding extra fields, extra parameters, and you get really rather ugly-looking models.[/bold]


So thanks to this discovery the multiverse would exist and it would solve the problem of what came before. As inflation is eternal. Or the notion of inflation is wrong because what we see vs what we expected are vastly different.

Ha this is great and so interesting.
 

Chojin

Member
Not sure what form the multiverse exists based on that. The mental picture I'm forming in my head is someone with a toy bubble pipe making a bunch of bubbles and our own universe is one of those bubbles in the mix?
 

Exotoro

Member
Does that mean there's a universe where I'm Spider-Man?

all of the possibilities are endless. there's at least a hundred thousand like that, and they all branch off from another timeline where radioactive spiders were made. you might be a spiderman with forty breasts and twenty dogs growing off your shoulders. your aunt may might be a carrot. you might be in a asylum where you are under the delusion that you are spiderman. that's even assuming that it's branching off the stuff we already know from our universe; there might even be other timelines with stuff that's never been seen on earth; another template of a universe.

if there is a multiverse and it works based off time, there are hundreds of thousands of universes just like you describe.
 
Not sure what form the multiverse exists based on that. The mental picture I'm forming in my head is someone with a toy bubble pipe making a bunch of bubbles and our own universe is one of those bubbles in the mix?

Each one infinite within itself?? It's a pretty wild concept.
 
Multiverse does not involve a bunch of different versions of this universe right?
It just means that there are other universes other than our own, all together in who knows where?
 

Tawpgun

Member
Stop the universe I want to get off.

Crazy shit, would explain how outr universe got here but it just moves the goalposts... Where did the first universe/inflation particles come from?
 

Flo_Evans

Member
ok I guess.

I realize that this is how since works (building knowledge on earlier theories/experiments) but it is always slightly annoying when some dude just goes all nuts and claims some experiment validates his hypothesis but can't really prove it for another 20 years.
 

Chojin

Member
Each one infinite within itself?? It's a pretty wild concept.

Yeah,it kind of bridges the bubble universe with the infinitely splitting timeline universes.

What I'm picturing in my head is a single "point" like a wellspring where universes are constantly erupting from it all the time.

Maybe we're just a puff of vapor in someones e-cig

(puffs his e-cig)
 

explodet

Member
tumblr_ll9060Djhy1qcx70y.gif
 
I don't understand the infinite multiverse theory.

If there are an infinite number of universes, there are an infinite number of universes that are slightly like our own, where I for example misspelled the word 'infinite' once, with that being the only difference.

If this is correct, then that means that there must be universes in which people can travel to other universes, because infinite possibilities. This would mean though, that in a certain universe, someone has travelled through multiverse-space to our universe and publicly peed on President Obama. But this didn't happen. How couldn't it have in an infinite number of universes?

I think I can see where my reasoning is faulty, but to not break my head on this I would like you all to point it out.
 

Chojin

Member
Dreams are actually visions of yourself from other universes.

But that means I somehow married both Gadget from Rescue Rangers, Zartanna from G.I. Joe and ripped my own penis off with my bare hands. Oh and my mom is an Aswang!

Multiverse Chojin what is wrong with you!?

Oh and apparently there's a lot of universes with zombies and my teeth crumbling in my mouh as well :(
 

Flo_Evans

Member
Yeah,it kind of bridges the bubble universe with the infinitely splitting timeline universes.

What I'm picturing in my head is a single "point" like a wellspring where universes are constantly erupting from it all the time.

Maybe we're just a puff of vapor in someones e-cig

(puffs his e-cig)

I may be reading it wrong (most definitely) but it seems like he is proposing that the new universes are created inside of ours, so we have this infinite expanding bubble with many more infinite bubbles inside of it also expanding (like a fractal image?)

This raises an interesting question of just where we sit on the hierarchy (although I'm not sure its actually important) are we a "new" bubble? what happens when the bubble above us "pops"? Does it ever end or?

To me its kind of a mind fuck, surely anything so massive as to appear infinite from the inside created in nanoseconds can also be destroyed in nanoseconds? And if the universe is constantly creating more where is it getting all this mass? Is mass even "real" in this scenario?
 

Kimawolf

Member
Multiverse does not involve a bunch of different versions of this universe right?
It just means that there are other universes other than our own, all together in who knows where?

Well if it the theory of inflation/ infinite universe holds up, then it definitely means somewhere there's another "You" out there, it just is really, really far away. After all there are only a finite way for particles to be arranged, which means look far enough away, or wait long enough, the particles that make up you, will eventually be arranged in that way again, even if it's 100 trillion light years away, in an infinite universe there would still be millions of you out there, each one with a slightly different life, ranging from eating an apple instead of an orange to being emperor of the world. To a universe where physics are tweaked/different enough for you to be Superman.

At least that is how I understand it.
 

Chojin

Member
I may be reading it wrong (most definitely) but it seems like he is proposing that the new universes are created inside of ours, so we have this infinite expanding bubble with many more infinite bubbles inside of it also expanding (like a fractal image?)

This raises an interesting question of just where we sit on the hierarchy (although I'm not sure its actually important) are we a "new" bubble? what happens when the bubble above us "pops"? Does it ever end or?

To me its kind of a mind fuck, surely anything so massive as to appear infinite from the inside created in nanoseconds can also be destroyed in nanoseconds? And if the universe is constantly creating more where is it getting all this mass? Is mass even "real" in this scenario?

Isn't Mass and Energy the same thing? I'll just say Protoculture and leave it at that. Robotech answers all.
 

Chojin

Member
The very notion that there's a version of me out there that enjoys the Dave Matthews Band is mortifying.

Cheer up, its very possible Dave Matthew's Band in the other universes isn't some shitty band from the University of Richmond.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Not sure what form the multiverse exists based on that. The mental picture I'm forming in my head is someone with a toy bubble pipe making a bunch of bubbles and our own universe is one of those bubbles in the mix?

This is one of the more commonly accepted models yeah. Keep in mind guys, this is completely separate (I think) from the "many worlds" theory that says there are infinite universes representing every possible state of our universe, this is talking about an overarching system that frequently has entirely new, unique universes generated within it.

EDIT: Although as someone pointed out if it does lead to literally infinite universes then it does also kind of contain "many worlds" inside it because of probability.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
I don't understand the infinite multiverse theory.

If there are an infinite number of universes, there are an infinite number of universes that are slightly like our own, where I for example misspelled the word 'infinite' once, with that being the only difference.

If this is correct, then that means that there must be universes in which people can travel to other universes, because infinite possibilities. This would mean though, that in a certain universe, someone has travelled through multiverse-space to our universe and publicly peed on President Obama. But this didn't happen. How couldn't it have in an infinite number of universes?

I think I can see where my reasoning is faulty, but to not break my head on this I would like you all to point it out.

Not everything is possible. You will never see a sentient icecream planet. You will never see an irrational number in an infinitely long rational number set
 
This would mean though, that in a certain universe, someone has travelled through multiverse-space to our universe and publicly peed on President Obama. But this didn't happen. How couldn't it have in an infinite number of universes?

wouldn't that be a slightly different universe that's just almost exactly like our own minus the peeing on obama part? Sort of like the branching timeline theories in some TV shows.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Not everything is possible. You will never see a sentient icecream planet. You will never see an irrational number in an infinitely long rational number set

What? Are you claiming that we have evidence that only carbon-based lifeforms are possible? That consciousness cannot arise from mostly water-based beings? (Winkwink) I am sure the conditions from sentient sugary water is already met somewhere in our universe, multiverse or not.
 

Kimawolf

Member
I may be reading it wrong (most definitely) but it seems like he is proposing that the new universes are created inside of ours, so we have this infinite expanding bubble with many more infinite bubbles inside of it also expanding (like a fractal image?)

This raises an interesting question of just where we sit on the hierarchy (although I'm not sure its actually important) are we a "new" bubble? what happens when the bubble above us "pops"? Does it ever end or?

To me its kind of a mind fuck, surely anything so massive as to appear infinite from the inside created in nanoseconds can also be destroyed in nanoseconds? And if the universe is constantly creating more where is it getting all this mass? Is mass even "real" in this scenario?

Well if the energy state of our universe isn't the lowest it will tunnel to another lower energy state at the speed if light destroying us in the process.We could live In a false vacuum . I am sure there is a physicist on the board who could explain it better than me though.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-higgs-boson-might-spell-doom-for-the-universe/
 
What? Are you claiming that we have evidence that only carbon-based lifeforms are possible? That consciousness cannot arise from mostly water-based beings? (Winkwink) I am sure the conditions from sentient sugary water is already met somewhere in our universe, multiverse or not.

Life forms made from sugar water? Your telling me there may be a planet filled with delicious kool aid people? WHY AREN'T WE HUNTING THEM DOWN YET
 

Flo_Evans

Member
This is one of the more commonly accepted models yeah. Keep in mind guys, this is completely separate (I think) from the "many worlds" theory that says there are infinite universes representing every possible state of our universe, this is talking about an overarching system that frequently has entirely new, unique universes generated within it.

EDIT: Although as someone pointed out if it does lead to literally infinite universes then it does also kind of contain "many worlds" inside it because of probability.

Random thought: could these new universes (forming inside our own) be the source of "dark energy"? i.e the force that is making our own universe constantly expand?
 

G.ZZZ

Member
Infinite variations don't cover all possibilities, just saying. You could easily have infinite universes and none of them except our own to harbor life.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Random thought: could these new universes (forming inside our own) be the source of "dark energy"? i.e the force that is making our own universe constantly expand?

I don't know enough to speculate. Actually...I'm not sure who would know enough to speculate. Maybe? Dark matter/energy is really just matter and energy that does interact with gravity but doesn't interact with the electromagnetic force. Its "dark" because light doesn't interact with it so we can't see it, just see its gravitational influence. But as to what it is...who knows?
 

Flo_Evans

Member
I don't know enough to speculate. Actually...I'm not sure who would know enough to speculate. Maybe? Dark matter/energy is really just matter and energy that does interact with gravity but doesn't interact with the electromagnetic force. Its "dark" because light doesn't interact with it so we can't see it, just see its gravitational influence. But as to what it is...who knows?

Ok I am just going to go curl up in a ball in the corner then. Wake me in 20 years when we have it all sorted science!

Hopefully we have hover boards by then.
 

harmonize

Member
I wonder what I'm doing in that one universe where that atom in my left shoulder is slightly farther left relative to my body and space than it is in the universe I'm currently in. Truly exciting to think about.
 

BouncyFrag

Member
I'm more concerned with the multi-verse versions of GAF and whether or not the mods have the power to ban you over possible posts done by other versions of yourself.
 

RangerX

Banned
This would be such an amazing discovery if true. It could have all sorts of philosophical implications too. I fucking love science. Its such an intellectually stimulating time to be alive
 
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