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That's about enough... open letter to SCEE...EU PSN Store vs US one = the last straw!

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I posted the following over at threespeech and the EU PlayStation community forums and I am also going to e-mail it to them (the more addresses you give me here, the more e-mails I will send... I forgot the e-mail address of their EU Store feedback "central").

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The design of the European version of the store, as in the way games/demos/etc... are categorized and divided, compared to the organization and sorting features in the U.S. store is appalling.

Where is a View All function ?

Why is not all content related to a single game grouped together when we view that game's page (example: people would like to look up Pixeljunk monsters and see the game, demo*, trailer, themes, etc.) ?

What made people over at SCEE think that we needed to use a set of categories different from:

Newest Releases -- PS Eye Games -- PSP Games -- PSone Classics -- View by Genre -- View by Title

which is the format used for the US PSN Store (can you honestly say that the organization of the EU PSN Store is better or even at the same level of usability and polish compared to the US PSN Store ?) ?

Will the people responsible for the EU PSN Store interface organization turn their pride down a notch and take a serious, impartial, detached, and common sense based look at both US and EU PSN Stores are think about which one allows the customer to browse and reach the content he or she wants in the easiest and more intuitive way ? (hint: it is not the EU PSN Store)

SCEE should be ashamed of itself: once again Europe is their "comeback/fortress" area and they keep under delivering compared to what they offer to U.S. consumers which are perhaps more demanding than EU consumers are and so yes it is EU/PAL customers' fault too...

I know there are probably a lot of hard working people at SCEE that realize that thier jobs will be on the line (before the jobs of their top management) when the day EU/PAL consumers start becoming as demanding as the US/Japanese ones and in turns that leads to Europe/PAL Area not guaranteeing Sony any safe net for sales/market penetration of their new Hardware and Software.

There is a limit to how much the EU Consumers (thanks to widespread Internet access it is much easier to hear/see how other consumers are treated abroad) will take the way they are treated and repeating them that no matter the price, the delays, the way they are treated they end up buying anyways (hello Mr. Reeves) as much if not more than other territories does not help your cause either.

When PS4 and PSP2 are launched and the competition from Nintendo and Microsoft will be fiercer than ever would you like EU consumers to face you with a negative or positive attitude (which could shadow whatever great evolution/innovation you have brought with either product?) ? Do you want them to have good or bad prejudices against your products and the value you offer them ?

Are you willing to bet your jobs that consumer discontent will never end up turning into your products tanking at retail just because it seemed to have worked in the past ?

Are you willing to keep under-delivering to EU consumers even though it would not cost you more to do a better job (to do a bad job it takes you about the same amount of time and money if not more than it takes you to do a good job at the start... and again turn your pride down a notch and realize you are not doing a good enough job) and how much you could be punished by keeping on tarnishing your reputation bit by bit (are you willing to bet that you will know when shit hits the fan before it is too late to quickly reverse consumer's trends ?)?
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
I approve fullheartedly of this proposition.

I just fired an email off to the Australian PS support myself about various things they screwed up in the update (missing content and whatnot).
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Whilst you're right about the other points, the mail might be more effective if it just focusses on one issue - the store.

Going off about pricing etc. will leave people simply saying "oh here we go, another rant" :p As much as you may be right.

I think it might be more powerful if it sticks to just the issue of the store.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
gofreak said:
Whilst you're right about the other points, the mail might be more effective if it just focusses on one issue - the store.

Going off about pricing etc. will leave people simply saying "oh here we go, another rant" :p As much as you may be right.

I think it might be more powerful if it sticks to just the issue of the store.

Ok I'll cut that part out in the e-mails I send... please some e-mail addresses would be appreciated :).
 

nofi

Member
Panajev2001a said:
I posted the following over at threespeech and the EU PlayStation community forums and I am also going to e-mail it to them (the more addresses you give me here, the more e-mails I will send... I forgot the e-mail address of their EU Store feedback "central").

Not sure what to say here, apart from you need to make the points more concisely, probably a few bullet points making your points more clearly. I could email it on for you, perhaps.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
nofi said:
Not sure what to say here, apart from you need to make the points more concisely, probably a few bullet points making your points more clearly. I could email it on for you, perhaps.

I wrote that filled with rage and besides I have never been known as a concise writer... it is a miracle it did not turn out to be a Lewis Black style rant "F&CK F&CK F&CK F&CK".

I'll work on it some more...


The e-mail thing would be appreciated it is not that I cannot mail them from where I am, just that I lack the addresses to send it to.
 

nofi

Member
Panajev2001a said:
I wrote that filled with rage and besides I have never been known as a concise writer... it is a miracle it did not turn out to be a Lewis Black style rant "F&CK F&CK F&CK F&CK".

I'll re-work on it some more...

Yes, please do, or it'll fall on deaf ears. I'd start again.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
nofi said:
Yes, please do, or it'll fall on deaf ears. I'd start again.

It will still fall on deaf ears until they really start losing market share in Europe, but still... more work can be done.
 
Maybe it is a experiment? You know, to see what happens with two different approaches.

US: easy to find things.

EU: force customer to look around and perhaps pick up something else when looking around.

Kind of like supermarkets.
 

nofi

Member
Panajev2001a said:
It will still fall on deaf ears until they really start losing market share in Europe, but still... more work can be done.

I can make sure it's read.

Panajev2001a said:
The e-mail thing would be appreciated it is not that I cannot mail them from where I am, just that I lack the addresses to send it to.

I appreciate that, but you need to relax, rewrite and then consider what you're saying carefully.
 

Elios83

Member
Yup I'm disappointed by the work SCEE did.
Icon transfer speed is way too slow (if you launch the service you should have tour servers ready) and the way things are categorized is really lame compared to the US store.
No 'demo' but ' family' category? :lol :lol
Where's the alphabetic search? Where's the preview function?
 

Maztorre

Member
PuppetSlave said:
Maybe it is a experiment? You know, to see what happens with two different approaches.

US: easy to find things.

EU: force customer to look around and perhaps pick up something else when looking around.

Kind of like supermarkets.

Except

a) The European store has barely any content compared to JP/US, so there isn't really much else to look around for

and

b) Their own update has actually made some titles impossible to access on the store because of their categorisation structure

It's really more like a rundown supermarket sandwiched between two top-class rivals and all of the refrigerators have padlocks on them. Oh, and the staff keep telling you everything's ok because you're European and you'll buy it anyway.

Man, I'm so glad I bought a used JP PS3 instead of directly financing Sony's continued exploitation of Europe.
 
Maztorre said:
Except

a) The European store has barely any content compared to JP/US, so there isn't really much else to look around for

Heh, yeah thats mainly why I don't really care about this thing. I just go to latest when I enter the shop. Everything else of note I have already downloaded...
 

shifty100

Banned
Holy shit ........ you guys need to get a life. ' The US store is better than the EU etc ' & ' this will affect next gen sony sales in europe ', lol .... yeah right!

The store works and you can buy shit from it, get a sense of perspective.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
I have written many words. What do I do with them?


--------------


Problems with the European PlayStation Store


The recent upgrade to Firmware 2.30 involved a massive redesign to the PlayStation Store, fixing a number of problems which existed with the previous web-based system. The redesigned European/PAL and US stores, while similar, offer different methods of game sorting. Unfortunately, there are a number of issues specific to the European/PAL stores which cause problems and inefficiency for users in those regions. These problems include:


- Limited options for game sorting
The US store offers numerous options for sorting downloadable games ("Games", "PSP Games", "PS3 Eye", "Classic", "Top Downloads", "View Genres" and "View All A-Z"). The European store only allows you to view by genre, which can be difficult and frustrating when trying to find a particular title.

- No category for PlayStation Classics
The US store offers "Classics" as a category within the Downloadable Games section, which contains all PSone Classics. The European store has PSone classics spread across 10 genres, mixed amongst PS3 games, PS3 demos and PS3 add-ons. This makes it difficult to find and browse PSone Classics.

- No category for Demos
The US store offers "Demos" as a category from the main page. The European store has no section for demos, which are simply lumped in with All Games. This makes finding demos difficult, similar to the situation with PSone Classics.

- No option to view all content related to a particular title
The US store, when viewing all games by title, allows you to select a title and then see all content related to that title (be it full games, demos, add-ons, videos, wallpapers or themes). The European store does not have this ability, and searching for multiple types of content for one title is extremely difficult.

- Limited ability to preview titles
A preview ability was demonstrated on the US PlayStation Blog, which would allow users to preview a game (either via screenshots or a video) before purchasing. There are multiple games on the European store which have trailers on the store, but do not have this preview function (eg, Piyotama, Calling All Cars). In combination with the above issues, this makes it difficult for one to preview a title before purchasing it.


In conclusion, the redesigned European PlayStation Store is riddled with a number of issues which prevent user accessibility. Poor sorting options make it difficult for users to find games they are interested in. Modelling the European store closer to the US store would alleviate many of these issues.

Specific fixes could include:
- Including more sorting options, such as "View A-Z", "PSone Classics", etc
- Remove the category "Family Games" from the main page (as it is already a genre in the All Games category) and replace it with "Demos"
- Allow users to view all online content related to a particular title
- Increase the use of the Preview function across all titles
 
shifty100 said:
Holy shit ........ you guys need to get a life. ' The US store is better than the EU etc ' & ' this will affect next gen sony sales in europe ', lol .... yeah right!

The store works and you can buy shit from it, get a sense of perspective.
Europeans screwed again... thanks for the support.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
shifty100 said:
Holy shit ........ you guys need to get a life. ' The US store is better than the EU etc ' & ' this will affect next gen sony sales in europe ', lol .... yeah right!

The store works and you can buy shit from it, get a sense of perspective.

The "affect sales" is more of a warning that a prediction... sort of feeling conflicted about wanting it to be that way to fix things and fearing about the jobs of hard working people not responsible for this mess and which would be the first one to be made redundant.

"The store works and you can buy shit from it"... lovely yeah... sigh...
 

hirokazu

Member
Meh, the Japanese store is organised pretty shitty too, especially since there's no seperate Themes and Wallpapers section so you have to navigate through the Game Add-ons and look for them there. :S

What I love about the Japanese store though, is how easy it is to tell what is for PS3, what is PSP, and what is a PSone title since the little icons are framed sorta like boxart. That should really be extended to all the other stores.

Or, you know, make the stores sorting and stuff consistent between all the regions, which I was hoping to happen with the 2.30 update.

What also annoys me is how some videos and other content can only be found on one region store and not another. What's the point in that?
 

Maztorre

Member
shifty100 said:
The store works and you can buy shit from it, get a sense of perspective.

Except when you can't buy shit from it because, as people have reported, some games have been made inaccessible in the store thanks to SCEE fucking up.

Get a sense of perspective.
 
shifty100 said:
Holy shit ........ you guys need to get a life. ' The US store is better than the EU etc ' & ' this will affect next gen sony sales in europe ', lol .... yeah right!

The store works and you can buy shit from it, get a sense of perspective.

I would suspect you for being a SCEE employee but you seem too nice for that.
 

Raist

Banned
Does someone have any reasonable and logical explanation as to why the US and EU store are different ? I mean, are there any valid technical or whatever reason behind this ?

I don't understand.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
shifty100 said:
Holy shit ........ you guys need to get a life. ' The US store is better than the EU etc ' & ' this will affect next gen sony sales in europe ', lol .... yeah right!

The store works and you can buy shit from it, get a sense of perspective.

Why don't you go give a toss somewhere else that you care about.

Some people care about some stuff they're interested in, doesn't mean they're bad people.
 

Yoboman

Member
Yeah, maybe you shouldn't try and rant about MS and Nintendo Europe doing any better by us because that's a load of shit
 

Luckyman

Banned
This new store initiative was obviously coming from SCEA.. SCEE couldn't care less. They just ported over the old stuff
 

FirewalkR

Member
Yoboman said:
Yeah, maybe you shouldn't try and rant about MS and Nintendo Europe doing any better by us because that's a load of shit

Regarding Nintendo it gets even better when you talk about their presence in Portugal because... oh wait, THERE ISN'T ANY!!!!
 

sun-drop

Member
the OP is right... i mean there should just be one store, screw this region crap, BUT, if they must seperate content between regions _WHY_ do they also have to chage the lay out from what the US store has?

i mean FFS, prior to this update we in PAL land didn't even have a PSP section ..we had to go the the PC version of the store. what a joke.

is it ment to hide the fact there is less content? trick us into thinking "oh it's prob here somewhere....i just can't find it?"
 

ChryZ

Member
Possible solutions:

-Panajev2001a to be silenced
/killed
by Sony ninjas
-PSN Store to be region locked
the grass isn't greener on the other side, if you can't see it
 

Woz

Member
I don't mind if the competion is better or worse, when the EU store is not even ON PAR with the US store... I don't understand that discrepancy... it's the same software on the same platform. Looks like the EU store is a previous version of the US one :/
 

drakesfortune

Directions: Pull String For Uninformed Rant
Panajev2001a said:
It will still fall on deaf ears until they really start losing market share in Europe, but still... more work can be done.

You think? I think Sony has been listening and implementing a lot of things with regard to the PS3 that we've been asking for. From DS3, to the PS Store, and on down the line. Granted there are still problems like you're pointing out, and SCEE seems more resistant to listening to customer wants than other parts of Sony, but it still seems that they are constantly trying to improve the PS3. Don't get me wrong, I see where the OP coming from and would be upset too. I just don't think it's fair to say that they aren't listening to what the users are asking for.

Also, I think the things the OP is asking for are rather simple things to change, it's just a matter of convincing them that they should change it.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
drakesfortune said:
You think? I think Sony has been listening and implementing a lot of things with regard to the PS3 that we've been asking for.

I think we are just getting the results of what Sony is doing mainly for the U.S. market (and also the Japanese one too). SCEE is doing the bare minimum they can get away with under the assumption that Europe is/will become Sony land (they know that their competition in EU land is neither as aggressive nor as powerful as it is in the U.S. so they concentrate their efforts where they have need to best their opponents: I guess we should be thankful that SCEE is even bothering to serve us almost the same dish that SCEA is serving, but I do not think people should be that passive).
 

Kingsgoon

Member
In conclusion, the redesigned European PlayStation Store is riddled with a number of issues which prevent user accessibility. Poor sorting options make it difficult for users to find games they are interested in. Modelling the European store closer to the US store would alleviate many of these issues.

Pretty much sums it up, hopefully someone over at SCEE will do something about this.
 

McBradders

NeoGAF: my new HOME
Panajev2001a said:
I think we are just getting the results of what Sony is doing mainly for the U.S. market (and also the Japanese one too). SCEE is doing the bare minimum they can get away with with the assumption that Europe is/will become Sony land no matter what.


Come back Phil, we are loveless and empty without you :(
 

Ponn

Banned
Are you sure they are done updating it? Has it even been 24 hours? Maybe there was a goof and they are working on it. I wouldn't get all pissed quite yet over what just might be an oversight or something that isn't finished yet. They did release it early.
 

sun-drop

Member
i think the problem is who ever is in charge of this over at the euro store ...is in the wrong job. ignorant and has no clue ... maybe some blonde who slept herhis way into the job and can't even manage to produce a good content layout when she/he has a fucking good blueprint already laied out in front by the US store.

get a clue.
 

Goldrusher

Member
Tntnnbltn said:
In conclusion, the redesigned European PlayStation Store is riddled with a number of issues which prevent user accessibility. Poor sorting options make it difficult for users to find games they are interested in. Modelling the European store closer to the US store would alleviate many of these issues.

Specific fixes could include:
- Including more sorting options, such as "View A-Z", "PSone Classics", etc
- Remove the category "Family Games" from the main page (as it is already a genre in the All Games category) and replace it with "Demos"
- Allow users to view all online content related to a particular title

.
 

nib95

Banned
I'd chill out if I were you guys. The store has barely been up 24 hours. Who's to say it's not going to get further updated very soon? The store update from what I have read came early in the EU, perhaps they didn't have time to fine tune it to the degree the US version is at.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
nib95 said:
Who's to say it's not going to get further updated very soon?

Common sense and also the fact that after witnessing EU being treated as their illegitimate son/second class citizen land it is up to SCEE to convince us that they can treat us fairly, the burden is on them not on us being more patient and hopeful.
 

Tntnnbltn

Member
nib95 said:
I'd chill out if I were you guys. The store has barely been up 24 hours. Who's to say it's not going to get further updated very soon? The store update from what I have read came early in the EU, perhaps they didn't have time to fine tune it to the degree the US version is at.
The store update came at the exact same time as the US... SCEE even announced it before SCEA.

Regardless, the store as it appears now is exactly what they've shown us in screenshots to date. Same as how the US store is exactly as it was seen in its screenshots. They haven't been finetuning the store -- this is what they were aiming for.
 
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