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[m0dus]

...They weren't sub-saharan Africans, either.

...and who specifically stated they would all be sub-Saharan? But we digress, that would still be a lot closer to an accurate portrayal of an actual Egyptian of that era than Gerard fucking Butler, and a lot more reasonable an approximation that equating Persian, Arab, and Indian in one broad stroke.

Edit- And again, in this context I am harping about those roles in which the character's specified ethnicity (again, such as Japanese, Arab, Indian, Persian) could be played by an actor with that actual heritage (both ethnic and linguistic) in a field in which they are poorly or not represented at all.

Edit 2 - I'm not getting testy about drilling a character down to, say, North Africa, South Africa, or north or south Vietnam, or Aleppo arabs vs Egyptian arabs, etc. a certain degree of generalization is reasonable in that context. I agree with that.
In most cases regional variations within groups are irrelevant so long as the group as a whole is being represented with reasonable accuracy.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Gods of Egypt tried really hard not to cast anyone of color in a major role. Yet, they had the time to cast minorities as servants...it's not a good look.

My man Chadwick is in there, at least. But they filled the rest of the cast with actors who are unquestionably box office poison.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

Genie gonna be like "WOOOOOOOO!"

they shoulda got Jay Pharoah to be the Genie honestly due to his impressions ability.

or Kevin Spacey if it had to be a big name.

Will smith isnt an impressions guy.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

...and who specifically stated they would all be sub-Saharan? But we digress, that would still be a lot closer to believable as Egyptian than Gerard fucking Butler, and a lot more reasonable an approximation that equating Persian, Arab, and Indian in one broad stroke, no?

Well you did say Black Panthers.

The point being it's quite difficult at times to justify specific races playing specific parts in stories based on ancient fables, Aladdin being a similar point given that the character is more Chinese than say Indian or Arab. It's a different argument when you're dealing with source material that has specific ethnic grounding or is closer to modernity. If history is your argument for why it should be different races playing different parts then get the history right, basically.

As for Gods of Egypt what they should've done is CGI'd animal heads in, fucking pointless otherwise (as posterity has shown).

Edit: I see we're broadly in agreement from your edits

 

[Alo0oy]

Well you did say Black Panthers.

The point being it's quite difficult at times to justify specific races playing specific parts in stories based on ancient fables, Aladdin being a similar point given that the character is more Chinese than say Indian or Arab. It's a different argument when you're dealing with source material that has specific ethnic grounding or is closer to modernity. If history is your argument for why it should be different races playing different parts then get the history right, basically.

As for Gods of Egypt what they should've done is CGI'd animal heads in, fucking pointless otherwise (as posterity has shown).

Disney's Aladdin is set in Iraq, near the Jordan river, can't get any more Arab than that.

 

[lightskintwin]

Gods of Egypt tried really hard not to cast anyone of color in a major role. Yet, they had the time to cast minorities as servants...it's not a good look.

My man Chadwick is in there, at least. But they filled the rest of the cast with actors who are unquestionably box office poison.

At least Gods of Egypt was a fantasy film and so out there, that the bad casting didn't get in the way of me enjoying such a spectacularly god awful film. Plus they had Chadwick play a God character

Ridley Scott's Exodus and Kings was much more egregious because it was serious in tone and it was difficult for me to suspend my disbelief watching Christian Bale, Joel Edgerton, John Turturro, Sigourney Weaver play Ancient Egyptians straight faced. And it was worse with having all the Black characters as servants.

Genie gonna be like "WOOOOOOOO!"

they shoulda got Jay Pharoah to be the Genie honestly due to his impressions ability.

or Kevin Spacey if it had to be a big name.

Will smith isnt an impressions guy.

Jamie Foxx, bruh.

 

[Scully Scully Scoo]

i really hope it isn't dev patel or riz ahmed, seems like these are the default guys give someone else a chance. in a continent of billions apparently hollywood can only find 2 guys. Plus they look nothing like aladdin and are too old to play him.

someone mentioned daniel day lewis as jaffar earlier, now that would be amazing.

 

[eLGee]

Eh, just cast Jake Gyllenhaal. What could go wrong with that?

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

again, Jay Pharoah would have been perfect as Genie. especially a more modern updated one.

i really hope it isn't dev patel or riz ahmed, seems like these are the default guys give someone else a chance. in a continent of billions apparently hollywood can only find 2 guys. Plus they look nothing like aladdin and are too old to play him.

someone mentioned daniel day lewis as jaffar earlier, now that would be amazing.

crazy, Dev Patel looks like aladdin and was born for the role.

 

[Alo0oy]

At least Gods of Egypt was a fantasy film and so out there, that the bad casting didn't get in the way of me enjoying such a spectacularly god awful film. Plus they had Chadwick play a God character

Ridley Scott's Exodus and Kings was much more egregious because it was serious in tone and it was difficult for me to suspend my disbelief watching Christian Bale, Joel Edgerton, John Turturro, Sigourney Weaver play Ancient Egyptians straight faced. And it was worse with having all the Black characters as servants.

Gods of Egypt is worse because the director was a white guy that grew up in Egypt, so he knew exactly what Egyptians looked like.

 

[Prologue]

yay or nay?

 

[RustyNails]

Eh, just cast Jake Gyllenhaal. What could go wrong with that?

Actually just make a Judd Apatow version with Seth Rogen as Aladdin and James Franco as Genie.

 

[lightskintwin]

Gods of Egypt is worse because the director was a white guy that grew up in Egypt, so he knew exactly what Egyptians looked like.

Well that's true. But his film was like watching a live action anime. LOL

again, Jay Pharoah would have been perfect as Genie. especially a more modern updated one.

You're disagreeing with my Jamie Foxx pick? Jamie is more accomplished actor and does as many if not more impressions than Jay Pharoah. Plus Jamie Foxx can sing which is needed for this Disney musical. Not sure how Will is gonna sound doing those numbers.

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

yay or nay?

fuck yea, ginme both slumdog millionaire characters

love that movie

 

[lightskintwin]

It's funny we're speaking about how Egyptians are depicted, because there was a time Disney was trying to do a live action film adaptation of their Broadway musical hit Aida. And if anybody has ever seen it, all the Egyptians are depicted by White people and all the Nubians are depicted by Black people.

I remember 10 years ago there were early reports of the film adaptation with Christina Aguilera playing the princess that becomes Pharaoh and Beyonce playing the Nubian title character.

Now I don't think they'll ever make a live action film due to the potential casting controversy and the only way it ever gets made into a film is by animation like The Prince of Egypt.

 

[Dude Abides]

They'll just go Dev Patel and Priyanka Chopra and call it a day.

 

[Raw64life]

Similar to BATB, they could cast a dog to play Aladdin and a cat to play Jasmine and this shit still gonna top a billion. I doubt they'll waste too much more time on this.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Disney's Aladdin is set in Iraq, near the Jordan river, can't get any more Arab than that.

Today, yes, however Arabs being a majority in Mesopotamia is a relatively modern phenomena.

 

[NEO0MJ]

Today, yes, however Arabs being a majority in Mesopotamia is a relatively modern phenomena.

Considering the characters are of Muslim background the demographic change has already happened, no?

 

[eso76]

Hollywood has no problem finding Middle-Eastern actors to play terrorists, I'm sure they can find ONE guy to play Aladdin.

Dancing and singing terrorists though

And had no idea guy Ritchie was doing this. Weird choice.

 

[Heshinsi]

Here's a novel idea Hollywood in regards to movies set in Egypt. Why not just cast actual Egyptians to play the roles?

 

[LegendofJoe]

Here's a novel idea Hollywood in regards to movies set in Egypt. Why not just cast actual Egyptians to play the roles?

Yeah, but they aren't white and don't speak American.

One day maybe people will realize that you don't have to cater to specific demographics and/or the lowest common denominator to make a lot of money.

 

[lightskintwin]

Here's a novel idea Hollywood in regards to movies set in Egypt. Why not just cast actual Egyptians to play the roles?

Hollywood's answer:

Ridley Scott “I can’t mount a film of this budget, where I have to rely on tax rebates in Spain, and say my lead actor is Mohammed so-and-so from such-and-such,” said Scott. “I’m just not going to get it financed. So the question doesn’t even come up.”

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Considering the characters are of Muslim background the demographic change has already happened, no?

The arab conquest happened rapidly, the main shift came after the Mongol conquest and the plagues that followed. Mesopotamia was a mix of lots of different semitic cultures for quite a long time after Islam became the ruling religion.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Hollywood's answer:

So the people giving the loans are to blame?

 

[Barzul]

I'm sure the real reason they can't find someone is that they need someone with looks, acting chops, singing chops, dancing chops AND they need to do a convincing English accent.

Hard to believe they can't find someone who meets these specifications in the UK or Australia.

 

[lightskintwin]

So the people giving the loans are to blame?

I was just giving Ridley Scott's answer. I think there's a lot of blame to go around.

 

[Heshinsi]

Hollywood's answer:

Man I was already pissed off at Ridley this year for Alien Covenant, I didn't have to read this too.

 

[bengraven]

That's pretty funny if they're saying they can't find an Indian actor who can sing dance and act.

Sounds like some bullshit to find an excuse to hire a white guy.

Which is pretty sad considering they're going Indian to not piss off people by hiring a middle eastern man.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

They'll just go Dev Patel and Priyanka Chopra and call it a day.

I really wish they wouldn't. It'd almost be as bad as just hiring tanned white people. It's like how Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling are couples in a bunch of movies. Find some new people

 

[Alo0oy]

Hollywood's answer:

Damn, you're right then, Exodus is much worse than GoE, that's straight up racist.

 

[Cagey]

Here's a novel idea Hollywood in regards to movies set in Egypt. Why not just cast actual Egyptians to play the roles?

Would that automatically make the quality of a movie better?

 

[Yeoman]

Today, yes, however Arabs being a majority in Mesopotamia is a relatively modern phenomena.

No. Don't get it twisted.
Arab is an ethno-linguistic designation. Most of the people in the Middle East speak Arabic however they are simply language shifters (generally from other Semitic languages).
The people that live in Iraq are Mesopotamians they simply speak Arabic nowadays rather than Babylonian/Assyrian e.t.c
Same goes for most of the people in the Middle East: they simply shifted languages when the Arabs spread Islam they obviously weren't actually replaced by them.

 

[Futureman]

again, Jay Pharoah would have been perfect as Genie. especially a more modern updated one.



crazy, Dev Patel looks like aladdin and was born for the role.

Whoa just looked him up. I wonder if they offered the role to him?

 

[Alo0oy]

No. Don't get it twisted.
Arab is an ethno-linguistic designation. Most of the people in the Middle East speak Arabic however they are simply language shifters (generally from other Semitic languages).
The people that live in Iraq are Mesopotamians they simply speak Arabic nowadays rather than Babylonian/Assyrian e.t.c
Same goes for most of the people in the Middle East: they simply shifted languages when the Arabs spread Islam they obviously weren't actually replaced by them.

A more accurate description would be Semitic, since that encompasses the majority of ethnicities in MENA. There is no actual Arab ethnicity, it's just a modern word for "Semitic that speaks Arabic".

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

No. Don't get it twisted.
Arab is an ethno-linguistic designation. Most of the people in the Middle East speak Arabic however they are simply language shifters (generally from other Semitic languages).
The people that live in Iraq are Mesopotamians they simply speak Arabic nowadays rather than Babylonian/Assyrian e.t.c
Same goes for most of the people in the Middle East: they simply shifted languages when the Arabs spread Islam they obviously weren't actually replaced by them.

In a lot of cases they did indeed become separate ethnic groups, some places held out. For example Iranians are still persians and a distinct group, whereas Iraq was a mish mash of various semitic groups and are now more distinctly Arab than they were say 600 years ago.

North African Arabs are also distinct from the North Africans of classical antiquity.

 

[Yeoman]

A more accurate description would be Semitic, since that encompasses the majority of ethnicities in MENA. There is no actual Arab ethnicity, it's just a modern word for "Semitic that speaks Arabic".

Well pretty much, though Bedouins in Arabia would be "ethnically Arab".

 

[GKnight]

I really wish they wouldn't. It'd almost be as bad as just hiring tanned white people. It's like how Emma Stone and Ryan Gosling are couples in a bunch of movies. Find some new people

They already picked two new Indian girls to be jasmine from what I heard and the issue is squarely finding Palladian for some reason.

 

[NEO0MJ]

A more accurate description would be Semitic, since that encompasses the majority of ethnicities in MENA. There is no actual Arab ethnicity, it's just a modern word for "Semitic that speaks Arabic".

Well, if I'm not mistaken the people in Yeman are the closest living descendants of the original arabs.

 

[Yeoman]

In a lot of cases they did indeed become separate ethnic groups, some places held out. For example Iranians are still persians and a distinct group, whereas Iraq was a mish mash of various semitic groups and are now more distinctly Arab than they were say 600 years ago.

North African Arabs are also distinct from the North Africans of classical antiquity.

What do you mean become separate ethnic groups?
"Iranians" aren't Persian - Iranian is a term that encompasses a series of ethnic groups, most of which are Persian and most of which are Indo-European speakers. They are separate from their Semitic neighbours.

As I said, the Arabs didn't particularly replace anybody: they were a dominant elite that imposed their language and culture on the rest of the Middle East. Generally those that shifted languages did so because they already spoke a Semitic language so the shift was pretty organic.

 

[jayu26]

My Fair Lady, one of most beloved musical of all time, cast Audrey Hepburn in leading role. She couldn't sing. What was studio's solution? Cast Marni Nixon to sing while Audrey just lip syncs.

I am convinced that Disney not being able to find someone capable of middle eastern background is complete nonsense as they there are plenty of other ways to get around the singing/dancing actor "conundrum". Furthermore, they themselves have shown willingness to cast an average at best singer (Beauty and Beast). Stop this nonsense Disney, cast a good actor with decent dancing skills and rest can be taken care of by clever direction, song composition and choreography.

 

[Alo0oy]

Well pretty much, though Bedouins in Arabia would be "ethnically Arab".

Arabia alone has a lot of separate ethnicities, there is no actual "ethnically Arab", especially when the entire region started mixing with each other about a Thousand years ago.

People just need to accept the modern interpertation for the word "Arab", dismissing it is entirely unnecessariy.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

What do you mean become separate ethnic groups?
"Iranians" aren't Persian - Iranian is a term that encompasses a series of ethnic groups, most of which are Persian and most of which are Indo-European speakers. They are separate from their Semitic neighbours.

As I said, the Arabs didn't particularly replace anybody: they were a dominant elite that imposed their language and culture on the rest of the Middle East. Generally those that shifted languages did so because they already spoke a Semitic language so the shift was pretty organic.

I agree they didn't 'replace' anyone, the big demographic shifts happened in the wake of the mongol conquest due to the numbers who died through war and disease. The point being that the Iraqi Arabs of today are not the same ethnic group as existed in Iraq up until the early modern period, so saying you can't be more Arab than Disney's Iraqi Aladdin isn't true.

 

[Yeoman]

I agree they didn't 'replace' anyone, the big demographic shifts happened in the wake of the mongol conquest due to the numbers who died through war and disease. The point being that the Iraqi Arabs of today are not the same ethnic group as existed in Iraq up until the early modern period, so saying you can't be more Arab than Disney's Iraqi Aladdin isn't true.

Since when? Where are you getting this from?

 

[Alo0oy]

I agree they didn't 'replace' anyone, the big demographic shifts happened in the wake of the mongol conquest due to the numbers who died through war and disease. The point being that the Iraqi Arabs of today are not the same ethnic group as existed in Iraq up until the early modern period, so saying you can't be more Arab than Disney's Iraqi Aladdin isn't true.

Iraq was part of the three Arabias thousands of years ago. Iraq, Kuwait, modern Bahrain, and Eastern Saudi Arabia were one large country. That's why they're ethnically close even today.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Since when? Where are you getting this from?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Arabs-History-Eugene-Rogan/dp/0141024690

 

[Messofanego]

yay or nay?

Yay!

 

[lightskintwin]

My Fair Lady, one of most beloved musical of all time, cast Audrey Hepburn in leading role. She couldn't sing. What was studio's solution? Cast Marni Nixon to sing while Audrey just lip syncs.

I am convinced that Disney not being able to find someone capable of middle eastern background is complete nonsense as they there are plenty of other ways to get around the singing/dancing actor "conundrum". Furthermore, they themselves have shown willingness to cast an average at best singer (Beauty and Beast). Stop this nonsense Disney, cast a good actor with decent dancing skills and rest can be taken care of by clever direction, song composition and choreography.

Hollywood seems to have steered away from dubbing over vocals in live action musicals for a while now. I can't remember the last musical where the main characters didn't sing their own songs.

However your point still remains as a viable solution should they can't find a Middle Eastern actor who can't sing as good as they want.

 

[Yeoman]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Arabs-History-Eugene-Rogan/dp/0141024690

Yeah I wouldn't pay much attention to that, the man clearly knows little about the archaeogenetics of the Middle East.

You'll note that Iraqis are quite distinct from Saudis and Bedouins (who are ethnically Arab).
Modern day Iraqis are genetically similar to the Assyrians who are regarded as descending from the Ancient Assyrians.

The results of these scientific studies lead to the startling realization that Turks, Iranians, Kurds, Iraqis, Jordanians, Lebanese are more closely related genetically to Assyrians than they are to other members of their own respective language families in Asia. These seven groups (and Jews) are genetically close.

The closest genetic relationships of the Assyrians are with the native populations of Jordan and Iraq. In point of fact, however, all of the seven populations of interest are quite close to each other. There are no wide separations between any of them.

http://www.atour.com/health/docs/20000720a.html

If the modern day Iraqi population was significantly more ethnically Arab than they were in ancient times we would see them cluster with Saudis and Bedouins.

 

[Gabriel_Logan]

Yo thirteenth warrior was the shit. Didn't like the twist in the book though.

Its one of his weaker books for sure.