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[tnw]

"datte" at the end of a sentence can also indicate something someone said.

actually I remembered I forgot to post that on the commute to work this morning.

but using datte is kind of feminine I think. It sounds middle aged woman gossipy and kind of catty.

tanaka san wa, jitsu wa kyoko suki jya nai datte

'EEEEEEEEEEE usooo!!!!'

honttttto!

'ara maaaa'

In tokyo anyway a lot of people tend to say 'tste' or 'tsta' for example

'daijobu tsta yo'
's/he said it's okay'

 

[RevenantKioku]

Wow, I started looking at some of the links from the OP, and Kanji is really interesting.

I didn't know, that we are pretty much learning words.

It's a great use of imagination. So I have to learn 40,000 huh.

This might make you feel better. The general use kanji list only has 1945 characters. Definitely more than that are used and learning just those won't be enough but it's not 40k, haha.

 

[Wizpig]

Definitely interested in this...thanks for making this thread! It's pretty awesome

The only thing is that I'm currently learning italian in HS, and I don't know if I want to also try to learn ANOTHER language on top of that.

Cheers for learning Italian, feel free to pm-ask me anything if you got problems.
That said, i really want to learn Japanese...

 

[bigmit3737]

This might make you feel better. The general use kanji list only has 1945 characters. Definitely more than that are used and learning just those won't be enough but it's not 40k, haha.

That makes me feel MUCH better. I thought it was going to take me around 10 years to learn the language. But I decided I am not going to worry about learning it, and just take it day by day and improve on it everyday. No pressure!

But some words are MIND BOGGLING. I have no idea how they came up with some words.
I love using my imagination though, and I had to do something similar to this, where you put two unrelated things, when I need to memorize material during my pledging process for a frat.


Another question. When watching Anime, the opening songs usually have characters, but it seems that they use syllables, as they seem to pronounce them in the English Alphabet under the characters.

So that means no Kanji in the opening anime songs?

Only hiragana and katakana?

 

[Zoe]

Another question. When watching Anime, the opening songs usually have characters, but it seems that they use syllables, as they seem to pronounce them in the English Alphabet under the characters.

So that means no Kanji in the opening anime songs?

Only hiragana and katakana?

No... there's kanji in the lyrics...

BTW, a lot of shows don't display the lyrics anymore. That's usually the subber's work.

 

[bigmit3737]

actually I remembered I forgot to post that on the commute to work this morning.

but using datte is kind of feminine I think. It sounds middle aged woman gossipy and kind of catty.

tanaka san wa, jitsu wa kyoko suki jya nai datte

'EEEEEEEEEEE usooo!!!!'

honttttto!

'ara maaaa'

In tokyo anyway a lot of people tend to say 'tste' or 'tsta' for example

'daijobu tsta yo'
's/he said it's okay'

Can you please help me pronounce "tste"?

 

[RevenantKioku]

Another question. When watching Anime, the opening songs usually have characters, but it seems that they use syllables, as they seem to pronounce them in the English Alphabet under the characters.

A little irrelevant maybe, but to me it kinda sounds like you're a bit confused about the characters in Japanese. Apologies in advance if I made a mistake.
It's not like you choose to write in Kanji, Hiragana or Katakana. Something written in Japanese will likely contain all three, maybe not so much katakana depending on a few things, but all three can show up. Sometimes they choose not to write words in kanji for stylistic or target audience reasons. Sometimes you'll see furigana, which is usually hiragana but sometimes katakana, written above a word to indicate how to pronounce it.

 

[bigmit3737]

A little irrelevant maybe, but to me it kinda sounds like you're a bit confused about the characters in Japanese. Apologies in advance if I made a mistake.
It's not like you choose to write in Kanji, Hiragana or Katakana. Something written in Japanese will likely contain all three, maybe not so much katakana depending on a few things, but all three can show up. Sometimes they choose not to write words in kanji for stylistic or target audience reasons. Sometimes you'll see furigana, which is usually hiragana but sometimes katakana, written above a word to indicate how to pronounce it.

Yeah I was a little confused at the start since there are 3 different written languages.
I think I am starting to get it.

I have a couple of questions, but I don't think I will be able to word them as I want to, so I am going to wait for my books, and then I will get a better understanding. The more I jump into this stuff, the easier I will understand it.

Another Question:

Dozo Yoroshiku.

Is this said pretty much everytime you meet someone new?

 

[Blackace]

Yeah I was a little confused at the start since there are 3 different written languages.
I think I am starting to get it.

I have a couple of questions, but I don't think I will be able to word them as I want to, so I am going to wait for my books, and then I will get a better understanding. The more I jump into this stuff, the easier I will understand it.

:lol :lol :lol :lol I thought the samething :lol :lol because once you learn the ganas things seem like they are rolling and you are on your way to master Japanese.. but it gets harder before it gets easier that's for sure

 

[Blackace]

Another Question:

Dozo Yoroshiku.

Is this said pretty much everytime you meet someone new?

in more friendlier areas like a good friend introducing you to a good friend people often just say yoroshiku..but yeah it is like nice to meet you..

 

[bigmit3737]

:lol :lol :lol :lol I thought the samething :lol :lol because once you learn the ganas things seem like they are rolling and you are on your way to master Japanese.. but it gets harder before it gets easier that's for sure

:lol :lol Thanks for the encouragement.

:lol, But I was sooo confused in the beginning, I can only imagine it will get easier.

Two Words I am having trouble pronouncing:

Tekisuto
Borupen


Is the "u" silent in both of them...It seems to be.

 

[Brofist]

:lol :lol Thanks for the encouragement.

:lol, But I was sooo confused in the beginning, I can only imagine it will get easier.

Two Words I am having trouble pronouncing:

Tekisuto
Borupen


Is the "u" silent in both of them...It seems to be.

Are you trying to learn Japanese or trying to forget English :lol

Don't worry so much about "Japanizing" your English pronunciation, concentrate more on learning useful Japanese vocabulary.

 

[bigmit3737]

Are you trying to learn Japanese or trying to forget English :lol

Don't worry so much about "Japanizing" your English pronunciation, concentrate more on learning useful Japanese vocabulary.

As odd as it sounds, I remember more as they pronounced in a Japanese tone.
Due to the anime I watch.

 

[Brofist]

Didn't Pass JLPT level 4 for the second time . I gotta study up so much its not even funny. Genki II here I come!

When i play DQIV or read some manga, i understand a good amount, but all of times ill recognize all the words in a sentence yet not know what the whole sentence means. the particles -noni, datte, node always confuse me, they either come in the middle or end, and i dont really grasp them. Im not sure how to improve any faster.

Sorry but this does not compute. How can you understand most of what you are reading in a manga, and not be able to pass lvl 4.

 

[Zoe]

Two Words I am having trouble pronouncing:

Tekisuto
Borupen


Is the "u" silent in both of them...It seems to be.

First one, yeah. Second one, no.

Don't worry too much about turning words into Engrish. When you're speaking full sentences in Japanese, you'll find yourself doing automatically anyway because it just flows better that way.

 

[bigmit3737]

Japanese is such a polite language. I am watching a video tutorial and lots of words are used out of respect and said in such a respectful manner. (The program showed a mini-skit)

I want to go to Japan now.

 

[bigmit3737]

My brain hurts...I think I put in a couple of hours today...Audio/Video and got through about 32 Kanji.

Wow, some of these Kanji are just mindboggling...

like the word Sparkle.

3 suns = sparkle

Why not 3 suns = bright!

 

[RevenantKioku]

Because he used words that have a decent approximation to what the kanji really means?
And if you're asking why the kanji means what it means then well, I can't help you there.

 

[bigmit3737]

Because he used words that have a decent approximation to what the kanji really means?
And if you're asking why the kanji means what it means then well, I can't help you there.

That's what I was ranting about....

But it's funny because when my mind rants about how it makes no sense, I tend to remember them.

 

[bigmit3737]

I was dreaming of Kanji...and couldn't get the audio portion out of my head as well, when I was sleeping... :lol

 

[Axalon]

I was dreaming of Kanji...and couldn't get the audio portion out of my head as well, when I was sleeping... :lol

:lol :lol :lol

I think you knew beforehand what everyone would think about that, so I won't go there. Maybe you should sidestep kanji for a bit and focus on vocab. I'm in a similar trap where I just went out and started learning kanji, but now I basically know a bunch of kanji but still can't form a whole lot of sentences. Now I'm focusing more on words. Go find a bunch of sentences in Japanese, copy them down, and learn every word in a sentence so you can read it and know what it means. Rinse and repeat.

 

[bigmit3737]

:lol :lol :lol

I think you knew beforehand what everyone would think about that, so I won't go there. Maybe you should sidestep kanji for a bit and focus on vocab. I'm in a similar trap where I just went out and started learning kanji, but now I basically know a bunch of kanji but still can't form a whole lot of sentences. Now I'm focusing more on words. Go find a bunch of sentences in Japanese, copy them down, and learn every word in a sentence so you can read it and know what it means. Rinse and repeat.

When you say sentences do you mean in non Kanji/Kana characters...or learn random sentences in Kanji/Kana.
I am doing a pretty good mix with learning the Language and learning the characters.
The video lessons have been teaching me grammar and basic sentences.

I learned about:

Kore Wa
Sore Wa
Are Wa
Sore Mo..
Nan Desu Ka..

etc etc etc

I feel like these video lessons are really helpful. I actually understand sentence structure!

Learning Kanji has been tough, but I will eventually memorize them.

But I do want to take sentences in Kanji/Kana and learn them...just so It will make me feel better...knowing a sentence feels a lot better than the vocab. words.

 

[Axalon]

Whichever, I guess. Like, I have a DS and Rakubiki Jiten (Japanese-English dictionary), and when I go look up a word it gives you the English word along with a few sentences for context. I'd look at the Japanese ones and just go looking up whatever words there I don't know. I may not memorize the kanji that make up said word, but I have the word in memory.

You could probably go find some simple passages online or somewhere and just go on a lookup spree.

 

[RevenantKioku]

:lol :lol :lol

I think you knew beforehand what everyone would think about that, so I won't go there. Maybe you should sidestep kanji for a bit and focus on vocab. I'm in a similar trap where I just went out and started learning kanji, but now I basically know a bunch of kanji but still can't form a whole lot of sentences. Now I'm focusing more on words. Go find a bunch of sentences in Japanese, copy them down, and learn every word in a sentence so you can read it and know what it means. Rinse and repeat.

Well, that's actually the process I detailed above. But instead of giving up D) on kanji before starting on vocab heavily, you get the writing and a meaning down pat.
It's hardly a trap at all. I found it makes learning vocab for me much easier.
If you're doing sentence reviews, you may want to look into anki which I have posted about in the first post.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I got this in the mail this week

now I need a guide how to use it. maybe gamefags has a guide

 

[Blackace]

I got this in the mail this week

now I need a guide how to use it. maybe gamefags has a guide

it is pretty neat. I still want to get a real one instead of using my DS but oh well..

 

[Axalon]

Well, that's actually the process I detailed above. But instead of giving up D) on kanji before starting on vocab heavily, you get the writing and a meaning down pat.
It's hardly a trap at all. I found it makes learning vocab for me much easier.

Never hurts to have people in agreement. I think that having some vague familiarity with what the kanji are would be beneficial for being able to figure out a word, but you don't really need to commit time to memorize that 曜 means "weekday" but rather assimilate it from constantly seeing it in the days of the week, for example, and later looking it up in a kanji dictionary and be "ah, that'd make sense, as 日曜日 is 'sunday'". Seems more natural and less "work" than committing yourself to drilling. Of course, drilling is inevitable for some, but if you can minimize the amount that needs to be done...why not?

 

[RevenantKioku]

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/511D416F77L._AA280_.jpg

I got this in the mail this week

now I need a guide how to use it. maybe gamefags has a guide

Lawl, I never thought of that, because it just came fairly naturally to me, but this isn't a bad idea.
Ask any questions you've got. I'd say I'm fairly comfortable with it. (Hell, I bought another DS to have it dedicated to this software!)

I think that having some vague familiarity with what the kanji are would be beneficial for being able to figure out a word, but you don't really need to commit time to memorize that 曜 means "weekday" but rather assimilate it from constantly seeing it in the days of the week, for example, and later looking it up in a kanji dictionary and be "ah, that'd make sense, as 日曜日 is 'sunday'". Seems more natural and less "work" than committing yourself to drilling. Of course, drilling is inevitable for some, but if you can minimize the amount that needs to be done...why not?

I'm not knocking the process you're describing at all. I am actually doing just that. But I tried it before and now having the kanji writing/meaning basically under wraps it helps out a good deal. It also eliminates a large portion of the aforementioned drilling.

 

[Blackace]

Lawl, I never thought of that, because it just came fairly naturally to me, but this isn't a bad idea.
Ask any questions you've got. I'd say I'm fairly comfortable with it. (Hell, I bought another DS to have it dedicated to this software!)

you bought another DS for it? you could have gotten a really nice one for the price of the software and another DS.

But basic input is really easy with it, so you shouldn't be too lost at how to use it. The kanji writing part can be a pain if you don't have a basic grasp of stroke order.

 

[RevenantKioku]

you bought another DS for it? you could have gotten a really nice one for the price of the software and another DS.

Not while living in the states. And I didn't realize nice ones were under $200? But I also got the second DS on the very cheap so I don't feel bad?

But basic input is really easy with it, so you shouldn't be too lost at how to use it. The kanji writing part can be a pain if you don't have a basic grasp of stroke order.

I think it's pretty damn forgiving, though. And the ability to see a group of kanji that it the software thinks it could be is very helpful.

 

[Blackace]

Not while living in the states. And I didn't realize nice ones were under $200? But I also got the second DS on the very cheap so I don't feel bad?


I think it's pretty damn forgiving, though. And the ability to see a group of kanji that it the software thinks it could be is very helpful.

if you get the radical correct you get all the kanji you could want. But if you have no idea about order it can really give you some random stuff.

Well I am thinking in yen and DS + software would be about 165ish and you could buy a nice one for about 199 or 220. Of course the really slick ones cost about 400

 

[Axalon]

I'm not knocking the process you're describing at all. I am actually doing just that. But I tried it before and now having the kanji writing/meaning basically under wraps it helps out a good deal. It also eliminates a large portion of the aforementioned drilling.

I wasn't knocking you, either. I was just supplementing my last post. Either way, it's not destructive at all (learning kanji is good!), but it may be demoralizing to be working on learning the language for two months and then realize you don't know how to respond to as simple an inquiry as "genki desu ka?" (this, actually, is what happened to me, and why I'm saying all this to begin with :lol).

Spoiler

And I know it's "genki desu". Now, at least.

 

[bigmit3737]

Learned about:

ga imasu
ga arimasu
Doko Ni imasu ka?
Asoko no Imasu

And more!

Brain hurts!



EDIT: Finally installed the language pack...couldn't find the windows cd for the life of me.

 

[bigmit3737]

Has anyone tried out this game...

Project Learn Japanese rpg.



http://lrnj.com/

 

[Askia47]

Right now im trying to tackle more verbs and grammar. Not easy.

 

[okno]

Learned about:

ga imasu
ga arimasu
Doko Ni imasu ka?
Asoko no Imasu

And more!

Brain hurts!



EDIT: Finally installed the language pack...couldn't find the windows cd for the life of me.

Muzukashi desu ne. Yasashku inai!

I'm in my second semester of Japanese, and we just learned transportation methods, counting minutes, to speak of existence (aru/iru), several adjectives/adverbs, and how to tell how much of something there is. For me, it's getting much easier as I go along, because, at least at this point, you just have to remove one or two words and replace them with whatever to form a sentence. Answering questions is nothing more than replacing the question word with whatever the answer is! It's so nice.

The kanji is not so nice, though. We've had really easy ones so far (1,10,100,1000, dai, gaku, hito/nin/jin, sen, sei, mei, nani, etc), but now as we are getting more into "daily life" stuff, the kanji just seems to add more and more and more strokes ;_; I mainly just need to practice getting the proportions right, so I've got a whole bunch of grid sheets to practice.

One thing that I'm a little confused on is when to use wa vs. ga in a sentence. I know you use wa for answering and asking questions as well as for anything negative, but what are the other exceptions? From what I've gathered, you use ga when indicating something about yourself or someone else or certain actions (but I know de and he are for transportation (tohon de uchi he kaerimasu). My teacher just hasn't been completely clear on the use of ga vs. wa.

edit: asoko no imasu? Wouldn't that mean "that over there's existence"? maybe it's just because I'm tired, but that seems funky.

 

[Zoe]

One thing that I'm a little confused on is when to use wa vs. ga in a sentence. I know you use wa for answering and asking questions as well as for anything negative, but what are the other exceptions? From what I've gathered, you use ga when indicating something about yourself or someone else or certain actions (but I know de and he are for transportation (tohon de uchi he kaerimasu). My teacher just hasn't been completely clear on the use of ga vs. wa.

The most simple way to think of it is 'wa' is the subject marker, 'ga' is the direct object marker. Even if it's not always there in the sentence, some "____ wa" is implied in front of a 'ga' phrase.

edit: asoko no imasu? Wouldn't that mean "that over there's existence"?

typo?

 

[okno]

The most simple way to think of it is 'wa' is the subject marker, 'ga' is the direct object marker. Even if it's not always there in the sentence, some "____ wa" is implied in front of a 'ga' phrase.

Oooooh, duh! Haha, of course, I keep forgetting that the subject is often just implied through context.

 

[Axalon]

The most simple way to think of it is 'wa' is the subject marker, 'ga' is the direct object marker. Even if it's not always there in the sentence, some "____ wa" is implied in front of a 'ga' phrase.

Wouldn't を be the direct object marker?

One of the differences (basically the only one I comprehend right now) is that "wa" marks a definite topic while "ga" is used when something is indefinite. For example, "dare wa gakusee desu ka" would translate to "Is who the student?" which doesn't make much sense, as "who" isn't an actual thing, but an expression of ambiguity, so "who" can't be a student. However, "dare ga gakusee desu ka" would translate to "Who is the student?", which does make sense (and was probably what one means to say). Nobody has really been able to explain the general, all-encompassing difference to me, but I guess it's because there's no real English equivalent.

Also, to endorse the OP, http://www.guidetojapanese.org/ is quite the useful site. It tries to explain Japanese from a more...I guess "low level" perspective as opposed to trying to map it to English analogs.

Edit: I am sofa king we todd edd. Mixed up "who" and "what" :lol

 

[tnw]

pretty much the biggest different between wa and ga, and I think this is a different grammar point, is that wa is used for exception and ga is used for definition.

for example

koko ni terebi wa nai desu.

there isn't a television here (but context implies that you are only speaking about television, and there could be many other things, just no televisions.. similarly, you are only speaking about only here, and there might be televisions elsewhere you could stress that relation more by saying 'koko ni wa terebi ga nai desu)


koko ni terebi ga nai desu.


anyway, I'm probably not explaining this accurately. My textbook grammar is pretty bad.

If you want a very thorough analysis of wa/ga check out Jordan's Japanese: The Spoken Language textbook.

and about 'tekisuto', as you probably know, the 'u' in 'su' is often dropped in pronounciation. Other examples are words like Asakusa

 

[okno]

Wouldn't を be the direct object marker?

One of the differences (basically the only one I comprehend right now) is that "wa" marks a definite topic while "ga" is used when something is indefinite. For example, "nani wa gakusee desu ka" would translate to "Is who the student?" which doesn't make much sense, as "who" isn't an actual thing, but an expression of ambiguity, so "who" can't be a student. However, "nani ga gakusee desu ka" would translate to "Who is the student?", which does make sense (and was probably what one means to say). Nobody has really been able to explain the general, all-encompassing difference to me, but I guess it's because there's no real English equivalent.

Also, to endorse the OP, http://www.guidetojapanese.org/ is quite the useful site. It tries to explain Japanese from a more...I guess "low level" perspective as opposed to trying to map it to English analogs.

Couldn't you also say "gakusei wa dare imasu ka", as well as "dare ga gakusei desu ka"?

edit: I am retarded tonight, thanks tnw

 

[tnw]

Couldn't you also say "gakkusei wa nan imasu ka", as well as "nani ga gakusei desu ka"?

actually neither of those make sense.

what are you trying to say? who is 'dare' not 'nani'

gakusei only has one 'k'

 

[vas_a_morir]

Let me test this:

子供の時、マイケルジャクソンは黒人でした。

As far as I know... that should make sense.

Can we make it a rule that when　posting a question, someone should try use hiragana at the very least? I think it would eliminate a lot of confusion.

 

[takotchi]

子どものとき、マイケル・ジャクソンは黒人でしたが、今白人です。:lol

It's much easier to input Japanese on these kind of boards...

 

[Axalon]

actually neither of those make sense.

what are you trying to say? who is 'dare' not 'nani'

gakusei only has one 'k'

*smacks forehead* That second one (where dare and nani were fudgered up) was mine, actually, but yeah, incorrect it is. I guess I'm not paying much attention tonight either. *sigh*, the beginnings of learning a language are the most boneheaded times, I guess. I know I'm going to do that like two or three more times before I get it through my head. This would be my utter lack of practice showing. :S

 

[AmMortal]

well....i got the heisig book and i basically dont know crap about japanese except for some words which i probably cant even pronounce right.

That said, is it ok if i jump into the book without knowing hiragana and katakana?

 

[RevenantKioku]

Yeah. Just don't get frustrated because this book doesn't teach you Japanese. It teaches you how to remember the writing and readings of the kanji.

 

[AmMortal]

yeah....thats perfectly cool with me, reading and comprehension comes later....

i just hope its not too hard for me.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Check out www.alljapaneseallthetime.com
If you're fresh it might be worth trying to follow the outlines there. I'd be interested to see someone else start that kinda progress from scratch.

 

[AmMortal]

Im confused, what do i exactly do at the website, just read his blogs?

or is there some software?