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[Synth]

Do you feel like all single player modes and games should have a rewind or just racing games and why?

I feel that functions like rewind and save states, etc could benefit pretty much any game so long as it doesn't negatively impact any player that wishes to play without them.

To take it a step further, I feel that many games have progress blocks that the player should be able to side-step entirely if it would allow them to enjoy the game whereas they may otherwise be unable to. After reading the first Mass Effect novel, my mother actually wanted to watch me play through the original game in order to experience how the story progressed, and what became of Saren. She can't play games to save her life, even at their easiest inbuilt difficulties, and so something like Mass Effect 3's narrative mode would have been useful. I feel there's little reason to gate content that many people would enjoy behind skill walls that those that appreciate them would still be able to have regardless.

 

[v1lla21]

Lines are fine for beginners but the rewind button is dumb as fuck. I play with almost every system off with the exception of abs (lol) because it's more fun to me even though I'm not the best. Really liked how driveclub implemented flags as a way to help you learn when to brake.

 

[Sparkedglory]

Personally I can't get as immersed in a racing game with those features, so I usually turn them off if available. It does help though, especially when learning a new track. And I can fully understand why newbies to the genre would like them. But after I remember the one time I was completely zoned in in Gran Turismo 4, getting faster and faster lap times just by feeling the track and focusing on what to do, I can't go back to the line just like that.

 

[Crayon]

I feel that functions like rewind and save states, etc could benefit pretty much any game so long as it doesn't negatively impact any player that wishes to play without them.

To take it a step further, I feel that many games have progress blocks that the player should be able to side-step entirely if it would allow them to enjoy the game whereas they may otherwise be unable to. After reading the first Mass Effect novel, my mother actually wanted to watch me play through the original game in order to experience how the story progressed, and what became of Saren. She can't play games to save her life, even at their easiest inbuilt difficulties, and so something like Mass Effect 3's narrative mode would have been useful. I feel there's little reason to gate content that many people would enjoy behind skill walls that those that appreciate them would still be able to have regardless.

Hmm. I cannot summarize my feeling on this right now. I feel as if I should be able to articulate why I am against but I really can't at the moment. I can say I don't think all games should have states or rewind. There is a degree of fascination possible with something that is not easy. That's all I can think of right now.

 

[Head.spawn]

Good point, let's get rid of checkpoints and quick saves across all genres too.

I lived through that shit. Was not that big of a problem at all to be honest.

It's pure a convenience option.

Back then if you just passed a really hard part and didn't finish a level and had to go somewhere.... paused that mofo until you got back and prayed nobody turned it off. If it was NES, pray to god nobody slightly nudges the console because it would reset.

 

[Synth]

Hmm. I cannot summarize my feeling on this right now. I feel as if I should be able to articulate why I am against but I really can't at the moment. I can say I don't think all games should have states or rewind. There is a degree of fascination possible with something that is not easy. That's all I can think of right now.

And I understand that also. As I said before TMNT on the NES was one of those games for me, having failed to beat it in the past... but I don't feel like there's really any benefit to forcing everyone to rise to that challenge, if the alternative is that they simply can't enjoy the game and so don't play it at all. I've played countless challenging games via emulators over the years, and that inherently gives these kinds of options, but I typically won't use them, and the games don't all suddenly become lesser games simply because their use became possible.

If your fascinated by challenge, then challenge yourself. Turn the lines off, disable rewind, crank the AI difficulty and disable all assists and play from the cockpit... but make that the default experience, and you create a niche game that not enough people can enjoy to justify the production values it currently has.

I lived through that shit. Was not that big of a problem at all to be honest.

It's pure a convenience option.

Back then if you just passed a really hard part and didn't finish a level and had to go somewhere.... paused that mofo until you got back and hoped nobody turned it off. If it was NES, pray to god nobody slightly nudges the console because it would reset.

I think a lot of us here lived through that shit, and it somewhat colors our opinions on the matter. It legitimately was a big problem though, and was making gaming inaccessible to a large percentage of the population compared with today. Hell, many kids back then that were actively gaming would see only the first few handfuls of levels in many games before slamming into a difficulty wall that they would never see past.

 

[Bsigg12]

Lines are fine for beginners but the rewind button is dumb as fuck. I play with almost every system off with the exception of abs (lol) because it's more fun to me even though I'm not the best. Really liked how driveclub implemented flags as a way to help you learn when to brake.

I really like the rewind system in the Forza Horizon series. Especially with 3, shit can just be too unpredictable at times and frustrating to be knocked out of a race because you get clipped going over a jump.

In something like Forza Motorsport, it should only be available on the lower difficulties and that's how Turn10 handles it. You can do a custom difficulty to add it back if you want it but it invalidates your lap times if you use it.

 

[Jon Carter]

Both were in WRC 3DS, but there are probably only 10 people who played that game.

 

[LordBaztion]

As a casual racing player, I wont play a game without rewind or tracklines (ok, some games I can still play, like Sonic and Mario but I want them in my sim like racing games). However I want the game to allow me to hide the tracklines for when I become better at the game. Forza does it great allowing you to adjust the difficulty.

 

[Nasbin]

If these were optional in DriveClub I would have turned them on right away and never learned to appreciate the experience of learning a track properly. I don't like seeing them in games now.

 

[KAOS]

I like options!

 

[Honey Bunny]

I'm so glad opinion has turned against rewind. Whether you choose to use it or not, they will be designing aspects of the game around it if it exists.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

I lived through that shit. Was not that big of a problem at all to be honest.

It's pure a convenience option.

Back then if you just passed a really hard part and didn't finish a level and had to go somewhere.... paused that mofo until you got back and prayed nobody turned it off. If it was NES, pray to god nobody slightly nudges the console because it would reset.

Lots of us grew up playing games in that era and lets be honest, going back to those times would be terrible. Devs don't want to spend millions on games that 1% of players will finish.

Stick rewind and whatever else into every game created, who gives a shit? I'll carry on playing on normal/hard difficulty, knowing someone else is playing on baby mode makes no difference to my enjoyment of the game.

Rewind isn't available when playing online, it puts your single player times below every clean lap even if they took an hour to crawl round the top gear track and the driving line doesn't always give you the best braking points.

People who moan about those driving aids are just annoyed that everyone else isn't playing games exactly the same way they are and that's pretty fucking lame.

 

[Deaf Spacker]

I only use the breaking line, I turn the rewind feature off if the game allows it (Forza) if I can't turn it off I just don't use it.

I know that Forza's assisted steering and braking options have helped severely disabled friends enjoy the game who would struggle otherwise, if those optional features are removed it'll be a shame.

 

[NoFoX]

They should both die. There, I said it.

And thats why Driveclub is still the best racer out there!

 

[Synth]

I'm so glad opinion has turned against rewind. Whether you choose to use it or not, they will be designing aspects of the game around it if it exists.

What aspects of Forza Motorsport became designed around rewind?

I've seen this argument put force before, but I've never seen it substantiated. FM had no rewind in the first 2 releases. What has mechanically changed as a result of its introduction?

 

[danowat]

Half of me thinks, if the developers vision is for a "proper" sim game, then both options shouldn't be in there, however........

The other half thinks that.

a) If they are there, and they can be turned off, what's the issue.

b) Why don't the developers make a proper, fleshed out, gamified "practice" option, that has these things enabled, purely to learn the track.

Just to expand on a) a little.

There is an issue with this, take Assetto Corsa for instance, you can turn on assists and driving line for all single player modes, now this becomes a problem when you head on line, because those things are disabled (assists are set to factory).

This leads to a bit of a disconnect between single player and multiplayer, if a game is going to force certain realism modes in one mode, then it should have parity across all of them.

All that happens is you have people who are used to TC, stability, ABS and driving line, dropped into the ocean without any of those things, anyone who has entered an online lobby with a car, like the 911 Cup car (which has no TC) will see just what carnage that causes.

 

[GHG]

What aspects of Forza Motorsport became designed around rewind?

I've seen this argument put force before, but I've never seen it substantiated. FM had no rewind in the first 2 releases. What has mechanically changed as a result of its introduction?

Set up a race singleplayer race. Long beach, S class and above, full damage, full grid of cars, 3 laps, rewind off, pro difficulty.

Let me know how far you get

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Set up a race singleplayer race. Long beach, S class and above, full damage, full grid of cars, 3 laps, rewind off.

Let me know how far you get

That's one track. I really don't think they envisaged that track being as much of a clusterfruitcake as it turned out to be.

 

[ResidentDante]

I don't mind either, if they help people that are more casually playing and thus enjoying racing games it's for the good I say. Both can be turned off in games that have them anyway, or simply not used. In Forza your reward at the end of the race is determined by the amount of assists etc. you have activated so it only hurts your earnings if you have them on.

 

[danowat]

That's one track. I really don't think they envisaged that track being as much of a clusterfruitcake as it turned out to be.

The whole ethos of Forza is to get to the front of the pack as quickly as possible to earn them XP's and CR's, that whole smash everyone out of the way to get into first, combined with the fact that you always start at the back of the grid (no qualifying), means that rewind goes hand in hand with that.

 

[GHG]

That's one track. I really don't think they envisaged that track being as much of a clusterfruitcake as it turned out to be.

Doesn't matter, it's in the game, it should be viable to race against the AI without rewind and with full damage on but it isn't. The drivatar system is a joke as is the rush to the front as quickly as possible career mode and as a result people are having to resort to shit like rewind in order to get through the game. I refuse to so the games just sit there uncompleted, but I can live with that because the moment I'm having to resort to cheese like rewind is the moment I'm no longer having fun.

If the races were longer (or if they allowed people to adjust race length to their liking), there was a qualifying option with a real semblance of a challenge (I.e, fuel, damage and tire wear carries over to the main race so you can't just go HAM with no repercussions) and the AI was competent and behaved like actual race drivers with awareness instead of driving around like its destruction derby then they could safely take rewind out without anyone complaining.

But as it stands, they absolutely have to keep it in, and it's not just to accommodate new players either.

Edit: oh and I forgot to mention the ridiculous collision system in the game where cars literally bounce off each other like its a game of dodgems at your local fair ground. Crumple zones? What are those?

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I don't mind the idea of braking markers on lower difficulties, but I've never liked the idea of rewinding in a racing game. Should there be rewinding in fighting games too? Or sports games?

 

[danowat]

I don't mind the idea of braking markers on lower difficulties, but I've never liked the idea of rewinding in a racing game. Should there be rewinding in fighting games too? Or sports games?

There should be in Dark Souls

 

[ZG002]

The flag system used in GTS is what you will find at a driver tuition track day, but normally with cones. It works well in real life, so looking forward to trying it out.

I do agree that the full line and rewind have become a crutch. I use them and before them I'd of considered myself pretty good at racing games.

Something does need to be done imo.

 

[GHG]

There should be in Dark Souls

 

[Zaru]

Rewind is a great feature. Just invalidate anything that is compared online when rewind is used.
Of course it also shouldn't be a crutch against crazy AI that constantly fucks you over, but I doubt the result there would be much better without rewind.

 

[JackAubrey]

Are too many players happy to be bottom-feeding and miss out on the fun of challenging themselves and mastering game mechanics and that's why it's best if these features are taken away?
Or is this just patronizing, elitist bullshit? They were always purely optional features after all...

My kids really like racing games. They are young. The racing line and replays are useful to them.

I hate the elitist bullshit that wants to take away features that young people and those with disabilities find useful. Screw "git gud" and all that bollocks.

 

[Cuburt]

I think if people can't grasp a "driving line", turn apex, or an optimal path it may seem boring to follow the line, like someone telling you how to drive.

Also, if you've never felt the inertia of a car going into a corner or never driven with force feedback in a steering wheel, it's hard to tell your mass and speed from just visual cues. Even actually driving it can be hard to know what you are doing wrong coming into a turn.

I think the reality is that racing sims aren't for everyone, because they are sims at the end of the day. If games are rolling back these features, I'd imagine it's because having them in doesn't necessarily bring in a lot of new fans. Personally, I think they are cool but it still doesn't keep my interest enough to dig into the real reason you play racing sims, to keep improving your time.

If I don't want them, I just turn them off.

 

[Synth]

Set up a race singleplayer race. Long beach, S class and above, full damage, full grid of cars, 3 laps, rewind off, pro difficulty.

Let me know how far you get

I've shat on Long Beach races with the AI plenty of times. That's AI not handling track well, the game isn't "designed" to have a pile up at turn 1 as a result of rewind.

Forza's core gameplay has been the same pre and post rewind, as has pretty much every other race that's ever had it both included or absent.

The whole ethos of Forza is to get to the front of the pack as quickly as possible to earn them XP's and CR's, that whole smash everyone out of the way to get into first, combined with the fact that you always start at the back of the grid (no qualifying), means that rewind goes hand in hand with that.

Forza was this prior.to rewind existing also, and so are a ton of racers that have no rewind.

Also, I've been playing Forza Motorsport without rewind the entire time (with damage). I mainly play on Expert and Pro and completely exhausted FM5's (and FH2's) event list.

 

[Bishop89]

They should both die. There, I said it.

Yeh this.

 

[GHG]

having raced with GHG in ForzaGAF, that's super funny. xD
no hard feelings, I was pissed for a few minutes back then, but it's all in good fun. I tackled you back once too (more by accident though):

All is fair in love and war

I went into those races with the best of intentions but it quickly went out the window as I was continuously rammed off whenever there was someone behind me coming up to a corner. That and the fact that the lag was horrendous at times.

Sometimes you have no choice but to fight fire with fire as they say.

My kids really like racing games. They are young. The racing line and replays are useful to them.

I hate the elitist bullshit that wants to take away features that young people and those with disabilities find useful. Screw "git gud" and all that bollocks.

That's fair enough but we also have to remember that kids had fun with racing games even before rewind and driving lines were a thing. The best selling racing game of all time didn't have these features and it was no worse off for it.

 

[T.O.P]

It's an option, i don't see why people are mad about it, you ain't forced to use it

And i thank Forza introduction to rewind and driving line for 800+ hours of gaming that my dad (and mom at times) has through Forza 3 to 6

They use 'em and still love the fuck out of the series, crazy i know

 

[Pachimari]

The racing line doesn't work very well. And the rewind feature is bullshit. Keep both out of our racing games. Gran Turismo seem to be going the right way.

 

[Camp Freddie]

IMO they are both useful for getting people into the genre and learning the game.

However, I think people need to be encouraged to turn them off, and there should be multiple grades of assists.

i.e. Training mode gives you a racing line and unlimited rewinds but doesn't let you progress. It's a track-learning mode that even hardcore players would like (using rewind to practice, especially if the game has a car-tuning/upgrade system).

I like the idea of limited rewinds, or penalties to the race rewards for using it. It has to be balanced against how bad the spins/crashes are.
I hate sim racers where one bad corner in a 20 minute race will mean the difference between 1st and 10th. It might be realistic, but it's frustrating as hell.
Personally, I like a fair amount of non-realism in allowing you to get back in the race after a crash/spin - but not so much that flooring it into the crash barrier or playing dodgems is quicker than playing 'properly'.

I prefer to avoid having racing lines, but you need some system to provide hints on corner speeds. Games tend to be shit at conveying the sense of speed and distance, especially when you're constantly switching between cars (and often tracks or road surfaces) with very different performance. Driveclub worked well from what I remember.

One option that no game uses but probably should is a "one-lap racing line" that turns off when you enter the second lap. That would let you learn the track a bit and avoid any nasty surprises, but then you're on your own.

 

[GHG]

I've shat on Long Beach races with the AI plenty of times. That's AI not handling track well, the game isn't "designed" to have a pile up at turn 1 as a result of rewind.

Forza's core gameplay has been the same pre and post rewind, as has pretty much every other race that's ever had it both included or absent.



Forza was this prior.to rewind existing also, and so are a ton of racers that have no rewind.

Also, I've been playing Forza Motorsport without rewind the entire time (with damage). I mainly play on Expert and Pro and completely exhausted FM5's (and FH2's) event list.

Nobody is saying they are designing the game to have those pile ups, it's more that they aren't designing it to prevent those types of pile ups and other boneheaded AI examples that you see in the game. The game shouldn't ship with stuff like that in it but they can because they'll probably have found that most people use rewind to get past that type of crap so why bother fixing it?

 

[User123456]

yeah, die very racing game needs FOV options. Your TV must be a window into the virtual world where 100m distance looks as far away as 100m in the real world.

FOV is not the only problem. The road on a 2D TV looks like a flat mishmash of pixels. I need stereoscopic depth to be able to actually tell how deep each nearly homogeneously grey part of the screen is.

 

[Raonak]

Racing lines can be better handled, I liked it how driveclub handled it by having coloured flags on the corners indicating how sharp it will be.
It's a much better mix of accessibility, and actually teaching you the game instead of relying on the line.

Not sure about rewinds, I feel like there should be a penalty for using it.

 

[Mandoric]

And I understand that also. As I said before TMNT on the NES was one of those games for me, having failed to beat it in the past... but I don't feel like there's really any benefit to forcing everyone to rise to that challenge, if the alternative is that they simply can't enjoy the game and so don't play it at all. I've played countless challenging games via emulators over the years, and that inherently gives these kinds of options, but I typically won't use them, and the games don't all suddenly become lesser games simply because their use became possible.

If your fascinated by challenge, then challenge yourself. Turn the lines off, disable rewind, crank the AI difficulty and disable all assists and play from the cockpit... but make that the default experience, and you create a niche game that not enough people can enjoy to justify the production values it currently has.

I think a lot of us here lived through that shit, and it somewhat colors our opinions on the matter. It legitimately was a big problem though, and was making gaming inaccessible to a large percentage of the population compared with today. Hell, many kids back then that were actively gaming would see only the first few handfuls of levels in many games before slamming into a difficulty wall that they would never see past.

Yet at the same time, we enjoyed playing, and most of us developed our taste in genres based around the 10-20% we could finish - which was different and personal for each of us.

There's room to argue that the old way placed too much value on the mechanical side/too little on the content side, but placing all value on the content side--which is the implicit assumption in "accessibility", an absurdity like arguing that baseball is actually inaccessible to little leaguers because they'll likely never throw a pitch in Fenway or Wrigley--is even more extremist.

 

[therealbigrich]

From my perspective I can live with or without rewind but I do think it's not bad to have . Being in races that my car gets spun around in the 4th lap I like it as a better option then starting over . Racing lines are fine for when you 1st get into racing . Should just be optional and if you cut it off you get more xp

 

[Synth]

Nobody is saying they are designing the game to have those pile ups, it's more that they aren't designing it to prevent those types of pile ups and other boneheaded AI examples that you see in the game. The game shouldn't ship with stuff like that in it but they can because they'll probably have found that most people use rewind to get past that type of crap so why bother fixing it?

Ok, so that's a really, really weak argument. Boneheaded AI is extremely common in racing games, including past Forza games where there was no rewind. You can't just attribute any failing the game has and say that rewind caused it to be there. If Mario Kart had a rewind, it'd be just as easy to claim that the only reason the AI is allowed to blue shell into lightning into squash into red shell to put you from 1st into 6th at the end of a race is because they expect you to rewind out... but it doesn't have a rewind, so in that case you can't argue that. If Forza Motorsport was designed around the rewind function, you'd be easily able to point out mechanical changes to the game that weren't (or were) present in the entries that didn't have it. But there aren't any, because the feature is completely optional, and the game is entirely playable without it.

Also, just for fun, I decided to try your Long Beach, Pro difficulty, S Class, Full Damage race. I went into the career mode and looked for an event that matched the criteria... there isn't one. The only S class races you'll encounter on Long Beach are 6 laps long.. so I'm not sure why you'd be asking me to set up a custom race that's not indicative of anything in the career mode. I did the career race on Pro difficulty, and honestly it wasn't very difficult. Sure, I was super cautious at the start of the race, leaving me in 14th place coming out of the opening corners... but I had 6 laps to make that up. It took 2 attempts, as the first race I screwed up a turn on lap 5 and had to restart, but I can't at all see how it's supposed to be a progress blocker of any sort for someone that's legitimately adept at racers. I don't even play on Pro as my default difficulty (I use Expert, because with so many events to go through, I prefer not to find myself restarting often.). Unfortunately I fucked up the recording, as my "record that" was only set to 30 seconds, so I only got the loading screen into the following race, along with me showing the difficulty settings but I'd be happy to do it again if necessary.

Yet at the same time, we enjoyed playing, and most of us developed our taste in genres based around the 10-20% we could finish - which was different and personal for each of us.

There's room to argue that the old way placed too much value on the mechanical side/too little on the content side, but placing all value on the content side--which is the implicit assumption in "accessibility", an absurdity like arguing that baseball is actually inaccessible to little leaguers because they'll likely never throw a pitch in Fenway or Wrigley--is even more extremist.

But nothing prevents that still. I have no fucking clue what the end of Hard Corps Uprising looks like, as I've stubbornly never played the Rising Mode, and so only ever progressed as far I could get in the Arcade mode. But that's my choice to make, and I don't feel it should be forced upon anyone else who'd just like to experience the game in full before moving onto the other 150 games in their backlog.

Nobody's forcing you to take the easy route.

 

[Synth]

Set up a race singleplayer race. Long beach, S class and above, full damage, full grid of cars, 3 laps, rewind off, pro difficulty.

Let me know how far you get

Right, so thinking about this a little more... this is actually a worse argument than I initially thought. The Long Beach race is a disaster due to the pile-up that frequently occurs at the start of the race... but this is actually one of the few cases where a race restart is basically equivalent to the rewind anyway.

Anyhow, here's how I did. Not a 3 lap race (for the reason stated above), but if it were a 3 lap race, I'd have finished in 3rd, which would have been sufficient to progress anyway.

 

[DD]

yeah, die very racing game needs FOV options. Your TV must be a window into the virtual world where 100m distance looks as far away as 100m in the real world. Problem is that the correct(calculated) FOV looks really slow if you don't put the TV right in your face and have a big TV (that's why people have triple screen setup, the sense of speed isn't lost then, because you see it in your periphersl vision).
Whic is still not right in VR, because your peripheral vision is so impaired. Real race drivers don't really move their head, they just move their eyes around a lot (there were some analysis videos with one driver... who was it? Alonso? Need to look it up)

It was Hulkemberg.

 

[AKC12]

Rewind should be a Practice mode only feature. It would be very useful to have while learning a new track/car. But keep it out of any actual race.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

But nothing prevents that still. I have no fucking clue what the end of Hard Corps Uprising looks like, as I've stubbornly never played the Rising Mode, and so only ever progressed as far I could get in the Arcade mode. But that's my choice to make, and I don't feel it should be forced upon anyone else who'd just like to experience the game in full before moving onto the other 150 games in their backlog.

Nobody's forcing you to take the easy route.

Let's also not forget that games used to be harder because they needed to be shorter for all kinds of reasons. In the arcade it was the "extracted dollars / minute"-ratio, on the early consoles the market was smaller (lower install base, less money spend on gaming per console owner, not much space on a cartridge), if those games had been easy, everybody would have finished them in an hour.

But still, even these games kinda eased you in. The first level is usually finishable by everyone, only then it gets harder and harder.
It's a designed challenge.
Games like Gran Turismo and Forza used to start with slower cars that you could cheaply tune to be more than competitive, but the trend is going away from that concept. Forza is putting you in pretty fast cars in the early races, Gran Turismo Sport won't have you buy cars and upgrades with credits anymore, in Project CARS, Assetto Corsa and DiRT Rally you can drive whatever car you want even in the "campaign" (hardly a campaign in AC, but not my point here).


With DiRT 4, Codemasters do that easing-in with an optional rally school and curating easier procedural generated tracks to players that aren't that good (yet). We will see how well that works, how much fun beginners will have on the wider and easier courses and if they naturally will want to go for more realistic, tighter stages soon.

Point is, they have seen that, if they want to appeal to wider audience, they have to replace systems like the driving line and rewind with something else (unlike in DiRT Rally where they are just not there and damage is always on). By just appealing to the hardcore, they are restricting their audience and sales. There are enough people who aren't good at gaming and racing games and don't have a feel for how cars behave on the limit yet, but are intrigued by the experience, ...if it just weren't it so hardcore so directly. It's missed sales, to not cater to those people too, who might become better at it with some help and then even fans of the genre who buy more of their future games.

It was Hulkemberg.

Found that out yesterday again. But still, thanks.
In the hairpin'ish corners he is actually turning his head more towards the apex than I remembered, which is making a good argument for VR. I still think the resolution and viewing angle/peripheral vision isn't where it needs to be.

 

[borges]

They should both die. There, I said it.

Yes sir. You are 100% right.

 

[Catdaddy]

As long as they are optional, why not. Never understood why some waste energy on criticizing “optional” features especially in single player games. If you don’t like or want the “real experience” it turn it off, don’t ruin it for those who are either new to games or the genre – some people actually play games for fun and don’t want the “hardcore” experience. Let people have the option and have the fun.

 

[xam3l]

cheevos



It's entirely optional what you pop in your DVD player, or what you put in your mouth. There's a reason Domino's sugarcubes aren't Michelin-starred and America's Funniest Home Videos: Nutshotpalooza hasn't been shown at Cannes.

Some of you sound like sim-racing-game-nazis.

Just turn them off.

 

[Mandoric]

But nothing prevents that still. I have no fucking clue what the end of Hard Corps Uprising looks like, as I've stubbornly never played the Rising Mode, and so only ever progressed as far I could get in the Arcade mode. But that's my choice to make, and I don't feel it should be forced upon anyone else who'd just like to experience the game in full before moving onto the other 150 games in their backlog.

Nobody's forcing you to take the easy route.

But the unquestioned IDEA that "experiencing the game in full" is seeing every asset rather than becoming consistent in every situation is:

a) essentially marketing-driven, as seen by its lack of currency in generations too old or too young to have grown up in the full swing of AAA

b) directly restricts the audiences for an individual game; if the payoff is an asset dump the title perforce is limited to people who enjoy that particular asset theme

c) encourages verisimilitude as a "feature", as the only way in this ethos to outdo an asset dump is with a bigger, more expensive asset dump; this reduces the number and variety of games made

d) the intersection of b) and c) harms the variety and audience of games in general; titles must be of a theme an existing large demographic appreciates that our culture already recognizes as "competitive"

e) restricts the challenges and features which can be added to a game to those compatible with its particular hand-up mechanisms (just for the context of this thread, rewind is a Forza signature, and rewind can't save you if you run out of gas; Forza's handling of fuel consumption and weight is at best halfhearted and extremely forgiving, with threads on the official forum asking how you run out for the achievement without creating a custom race)

 

[Silver Arrows]

Some of you sound like sim-racing-game-nazis.

Just turn them off.

That's the entire point of the sim racing community. Belittle and insult people who they deem unworthy of the genre.

It really sucks, and this thread has shown that it is still all too prevalent.