FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
Just a slob like one of us
"Yours is the drill that will pierce the Heav-
ohshit"
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The falsity of religion & God(s) is so self evident, m'lady
- Thread starter freakzilla149
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Just a slob like one of us
"Yours is the drill that will pierce the Heav-
ohshit"
freakzilla149
Banned
That's because the religious keep changing the definition of God, some are happy as long as there is one, no matter how vague and useless that god is. See deism.
I mean, there was a time people would've sworn on their mother that the Pharaoh is a god, or that Zeus really did live on mount olympus. You could disprove those gods and they've been disproven.
The current god of most people in the west has retreated into the gaps of our knowledge so much he went from being sky-daddy to some cosmic creator energy that is outside of the Universe itself and "beyond science".
On what basis can anyone make such incredible assertions? It's like saying "I don't disagree with evolution, it's just that God set it in motion". What? Did Darwin have the liberty to make such grand claims without any evidence?
I believe god(s) exists as much as I believe fairies, goblins, gnomes, unicorns, demons, angels, devils, elves, dragons, skynet, the zerg and protoss etc exist.
Which is to say, I don't believe in the existence of any of them for the most part, but I am willing to be proven wrong (ie. god shows himself to the world).
I won't completely dismiss the possibility of there being a creator, I just don't agree with any of the major established religions and their holy books - that were written (and edited) by men. I don't spend my free time thinking about a creator - I have other things to worry/think about.
Religion still has a place, just as long as it behaves as an outlet or community for people who need it (or have ideology that align with the group). They should also not have any substantial impact/sway on issues that actually affect peoples' lives. Stem-cell research and other medical advances, for example, that gets halted due to complaints by the religious that such activities constitute as "playing god", or abortion. I don't think I need to mention things like violence and persecution of the homosexual/transsexual community either.
tl;dr You can believe in whatever the fuck you want, just keep it to yourself and stop trying to impose your ideology/laws onto others.
Which is to say, I don't believe in the existence of any of them for the most part, but I am willing to be proven wrong (ie. god shows himself to the world).
I won't completely dismiss the possibility of there being a creator, I just don't agree with any of the major established religions and their holy books - that were written (and edited) by men. I don't spend my free time thinking about a creator - I have other things to worry/think about.
Religion still has a place, just as long as it behaves as an outlet or community for people who need it (or have ideology that align with the group). They should also not have any substantial impact/sway on issues that actually affect peoples' lives. Stem-cell research and other medical advances, for example, that gets halted due to complaints by the religious that such activities constitute as "playing god", or abortion. I don't think I need to mention things like violence and persecution of the homosexual/transsexual community either.
tl;dr You can believe in whatever the fuck you want, just keep it to yourself and stop trying to impose your ideology/laws onto others.
freakzilla149
Banned
Just because fools still insist on debating evolution doesn't meant it isn't beyond debate.
johnsavage
Member
If those two ever meet? How many people do you run into where you get into a discussion about your beliefs? Also opinions and believes are kinda different. People die for beliefs whereas everyone has an opinion about anything.
I don't care about debating about whether a super natural anything exists or not. There can't be a debate about religion since faith is not debatable.
I'm just calling out OP for being one of those atheists that most people can't stand. (Which is just as bad as any preachy Christian).
Here we go...
soul creator
Member
I'm biased because OP is basically saying the same words I think to myself during almost every god discussion, lol
freakzilla149
Banned
Here we go what? People are free to take the piss out of me for 6 pages and I can't get a bit snarky in return?
LookAtMeGo
Member
If there is no god then why do we have rainbows?
Sorc3r3r
Member
When i read something like that and can't stop myself to think about the deep ignorance and lazyness of such statement.
The simple fact that in yuor post you have written God(s) implying that there could be more than one God,it's to me a obvious evidence that your are clueless about the very concept of God.
Come back when you at least will be able to understand why it's a logical necessity that, if there is a God, this God is unique.
There is no logical necessity. Putting a logical necessity on an illogical concept is....illogical.
soul creator
Member
Eh, I could see that argument if he was running up inside a church during their service saying what he said, but I don't elevate a post on a message board to that same level of "preachiness" I guess. Also, the reason I said "if those two ever meet" is because they both would have always thought each other were wrong, and the only difference from them meeting is the vocalization of that disagreement that was always there. They have incompatible ideas, and they think others are wrong by holding those ideas, whether they verbally say it to each other or not.
Also, whether people die for something doesn't really change the "respectability" of the idea itself. People have died for all sorts of random things, including things we would call blatantly false in 2015.
And funny enough, you saying faith is not debateable is also right in line with the OP's point. You're both kind of agreeing, he's just a little more outspoken about it, heh.
I do agree that any atheist vocalizing their skepticism of religion in that way is usually looked down upon (I figured the thread would go this way, haha), but I actually see that as a flaw of our societal attitudes towards religious ideas, and not a flaw of any individual person. It's respectability politics applied to atheists, basically. Even if he calmly laid down well detailed arguments (which atheists have been doing for dozens of years), it wouldn't really drastically change anything. So yeah, a somewhat snarky message board post doesn't really rise to my level of what I consider "bad atheism" *shrug*
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
This should have been your original post mate, I agree with you here.
bloodforge
Member
Refraction.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Agreed OP.
Wish the rest of the human race would open their eyes and then we all may get along a bit better.
Wish the rest of the human race would open their eyes and then we all may get along a bit better.
Langdon Alger
Banned
Man, that stereotype of atheists being fedoras has really taken root.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yeah, OP. Yeah.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Not how but WHY!?
bloodforge
Member
Not how but WHY!?
Light bends.
Its the m'ladiest meme on the interweb.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
As far as I'm concerned, God is a creation of the human mind, or a label if you will, used to answer the unknowns, justify the unguided, and rationalize inevitability. However, not believing in the mental and social construct of God does not mean one doesn't or shouldn't believe in a religion or set of beliefs. My cat probably wouldn't give a shit even if there was a god, but he still probably lives by a collection of beliefs. The beliefs that birds should only be eaten, meows are only for humans, and if he stares at a door long enough it will open.
Anyway, this thread made me think of that professional atheism Drop it like it's hat gif.
I can't find it though.
Anyway, this thread made me think of that professional atheism Drop it like it's hat gif.
I can't find it though.
daninthemix
Member
This is incorrect, by the way.
This is one of the funniest threads I've ever read. Thank you Gaf!
There's your problem right there.
I think your argument boils down to "I am an atheist. Therefore, I am a genius. Anything I say is not only true, but is beyond debate because I am the smartest person in any discussion."
This is why you're getting all the enlightened fedora guy snipes. Your initial post is an appeal to your own authority on this topic. Who in their right mind goes on the internet and makes a ten sentence post proclaiming that they have proven that there is no god? And it's not even that you claim to have proven it in those ten sentences, you think your argument is so good it is beyond debate (or, frankly, beyond actually stating, except to point out its obviousness). The arrogance on display is astonishing. Even when I agree with you, I want to switch to an opposing argument because the prospect of you thinking I'm basking in your brilliance creeps me out.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Oh man. I was trying to joke/quote this but I got it wrong,its a sunset not a rainbow. Doh!
Oh man. I was trying to joke/quote this but I got it wrong,its a sunset not a rainbow. Doh!
It's the "their" that really sells it.
**CITATION REQUIRED**
freakzilla149
Banned
My post was not an appeal to my own authority, I didn't claim I proved there is no god. I am saying that it is so blindingly obvious that is no god, it is puzzling to me that so many people believe in a god or that we even have to have long debates on the topic. This issue has been settled long ago, but because people can't let go of their beliefs we continue to pretend there's something left to discuss. If that makes me arrogant so be it.
I didn't state my arguments because people like Epicurus, Omar Khayyam and Richard Dawkins have been making it for millennia, instead I wanted this topic about the very obviousness of the facts.
daninthemix
Member
And yet it hasn't been settled long ago, because billions of people believe in God and the matter is still "debated" endlessly, whether you like it or not.
It's evident to me too OP but good luck convincing anyone. There's no sense wasting energy repeating the same old arguments. Countless people have already eloquently and concisely deconstructed every fallacy that favours an intervening god. I'm too lazy to reword those arguments so these days I generally just direct people to quotes and videos which I'll do here.
Einstein said: "The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
To those confused since Einstein also said: "God does not play dice" and "science without religion is lame" understand that he was using the words god and religion quite differently from how people normally do which is illustrated in the following quote:
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
To those unaware of what Spinoza's god is it's basically just a synonym for the consistent laws of nature. Belief in Spinoza's god is pantheism which is actually a defensible position completely distinct from monotheism and actually functionally compatible with atheism, in the words of Richard Dawkins: 'Pantheism is just sexed up atheism.' More from Einstein:
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
I don't want to litter up the page with more quotes but there are many more at the following link: http://www.spaceandmotion.com/albert-einstein-god-religion-theology.htm
The most compelling quote I ever heard was the following though:
"Here's the thing though, if I was in a situation where I could stop a child rapist I would, that's the difference between me and your god. He watches and says: 'Go ahead and rape that child but when you're done I'm gonna punish you.' If I did that people would think I was a freaking monster."
That quote occurs around 44 minutes into the following video, it's long but a good show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyWkiywkdJY
Instead of debating religious people I would just try and get them to watch this show with me. I would also like to see this show shown in RE classes in schools, it's very relevant. Teaching scepticism and critical thinking destroys monotheism and a whole host of other superstitions, instead of debating religious people I would rather try and reform the education system and media distribution system so that they have to pass through a scepticism filter.
We're into free love and drugs baby
freakzilla149
Banned
And just like creationists they're wrong. Religion has not brought a new argument to the discussion in centuries. It has only managed to become more vague and more palatable to our evolving sensibilities.
Whether it is the question of God's omnipotence vs benevolence raised by Epicurus, Omar Khyaam's scepticism that god's word was passed down to an illiterate man in the deserts of Arabia but not to him or failing to exert any kind of influence on the world that breaks the natural order of the Universe.
When exactly? It's strange that the question was settled so long ago, yet people keep discussing it. Why did you get the memo and not, say, Descartes? He came along long after Epicurus and Omar Khayyam, but before Dawkins, so it's hard for me to figure out when we settled the debate.
Come on, dude. You have to see how silly your statement is. The entire topic is a contradiction. If something is obvious, we shouldn't need a topic on it. But if the obviousness is up for discussion, it hardly qualifies as obvious any more. The fact that you created a topic on something that you don't think is worthy of discussion should tell you something.
Where I get lost is fairly close to the beginning of monotheistic religions akin to Christianity. God takes six days to build the universe, which implies time constraints on a omnipotent being before such time constraints even have meaning (i.e. a full rotation of the Earth for a day). Then he has the gull, this omnipotent being, to take a day off on the seventh day. He isn't tired, he's just being lazy. I couldn't worship such a god simply on principle. That isn't to mention drowning thousands of children and other folks in a great flood because not enough attention is being given to him.
Okay, but they recast him in season two and he's way cooler.
They nailed it with the casting
Watch it. People get cross when you make jokes like that.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Lots of Christians don't believe that the creation in Genesis was 6 literal days.
The flood wiped out the half breed angel-human hybrids because earth was meant for humans, not them. Only Noah and his family was pure blood. Which doesnt really matter though because Sodom and Gamorrah was all human.
I agree with you OP, religion in all forms is fucking asinine for a plethora of reasons and takes some serious mental gymnastics to get to a point to believe it.
But you'll learn with time that arguing or debating it with people is even more asinine and will get you, or them, nowhere. I learnt this from experience. Be content with your lack of beliefs and try and become at peace with their 'views'. It's easier in the long run.
But you'll learn with time that arguing or debating it with people is even more asinine and will get you, or them, nowhere. I learnt this from experience. Be content with your lack of beliefs and try and become at peace with their 'views'. It's easier in the long run.
jimbobsmells
Member
I concur.
I'm just saying he looks like a cool dude to hang out with
Let me tell you a story.
One time, a man was walking on a beach with Jesus and he looked back over his life, which had been lived entirely on that beach, so his footprints were all there in the sand and I guess the tide never came in and there wasn't much wind because the footprints were still there and he was like 70 years old.
So anyway, the guy turns to Jesus, and he's like, "Jesus, thanks for meeting me here. My first question, obviously, is about these footprints and not who really killed JFK or something interesting."
And Jesus said, "Right on."
So the man says, "Jesus, I notice two sets of footprints in the sand and the second set seems to be coming from you. So instead of asking how I didn't notice you walking with me these past 70 years, I would like to zero in on the places where there are only one set of footprints. I notice that those times correspond to the most difficult periods in my life because this is not an actual beach but instead is a metaphor."
And Jesus said, "How is it a metaphor? A metaphor for what?"
And the man said, "For sand." And Jesus thought about it and decided to just drop the issue. The man continued, "So how come you didn't walk beside me, invisibly, but still making footprints, during those difficult times? Not that I noticed you at the other times, and my life was pretty crappy and I once ate some tainted roast beef at an Arbys, but what is up with the one set of footprints?"
And Jesus said unto him, "Can you read the tshirt I have on over my robe?"
"Life's a beach?" the man read.
"Right???" said Jesus, "Do you get it? Beach? Right? Haha!"
The man looked sad, so Jesus told him, "Actually, my son, though I walked beside you all your life, during those most difficult times, at the times when you could barely go on..."
"Yes?" the man asked hopefully.
"...I just walked in your footprints because that's kind of fun and I wanted to throw off anyone following us."
"What?" asked the man.
"And I also made some dinosaur tracks."
And the man was confused.
"I don't think you get my tshirt. It's a pun..." said Jesus.
I hope that story helps. It's from the bible. Or a greeting card. But someone definitely printed it on paper.
freakzilla149
Banned
Yeah... I've realised why I hadn't brought this topic up in so long. I just had a very interesting conversation with a friend and it made me forget.
Necromanti
Member
I think one thing you're underappreciating is the amount of influence cultural factors have on shaping our beliefways, worldviews, and identities. Many people are raised with a religion as a part of their cultural identities all their lives, so being able to divorce oneself of a lifetime of that can be an astronomical challenge. I feel privileged that I've never had to had that sort of struggle with my own identity and worldview being shaken up in its foundations to that extent; I've always viewed religions and mythologies as a curious outsider that never had to confront the existence of a belief in a deity until my interactions with other people when religions or gods were never mentioned in my upbringing.
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