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The Golf Club 2 |OT| High Society
- Thread starter -NeoTB1-
- Start date
I'll double check the Xbox one, it's possible I just overlooked something
gamerEMdoc
Member
Absolutely. Putting is probably the hardest part of the sport, and TGC absolutely is the best simulation of actual putting Ive ever played in a golf game.
He whole events ends today.
Legendarybeepa
Member
I'm seriously impressed with this game. I just wish I wasn't so bad at putting.
MarineMountie
Member
The event ends. They are 4 day events. That is plenty of time to play 4 rounds as the rounds don't take that long to finish. Don't want to hold up everyone in the society for 6 or 7 days on just 4 rounds of golf. Next event will start tomorrow.
Still have a ways to go to get good at this game but having fun. Player clubs here... takes a little getting used to but worth the learning curve imo
Easily the best golf game I have ever played
Loving the golf, the challenge, the realism, the resumable games, the sheer number of courses and the overall look and feel
Easily the best golf game I have ever played
Loving the golf, the challenge, the realism, the resumable games, the sheer number of courses and the overall look and feel
MarineMountie
Member
If you are on PS4 be sure to join the Society! Glory and Fortune CC.
Same as real life though. Players who use clubs with more forgiveness do so at the expense of distance. No different here.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Is there something wrong with society's? I can't load and it shows I have 0 credits and I should have close to 7k
Edit: weird rebooted and it's there
Edit: weird rebooted and it's there
Thanks, would love to but xboxland for me.
TheVisualizer
Banned
Joined the PS4 CC and went thru all 4 rds of the tourney finishing +26 
My only real highlight was this 14 yd chip in birdie.. My putting was awful and i havent got a handle on how to chip at all despite that miracle I pulled off.
Any tips for getting that 12 yd chip to drop before 12 yds and roll. I either hit it 14 yds in the air then it runs to 20 yds or I hit in 4 yds and it stops dead.
My only real highlight was this 14 yd chip in birdie.. My putting was awful and i havent got a handle on how to chip at all despite that miracle I pulled off.
Any tips for getting that 12 yd chip to drop before 12 yds and roll. I either hit it 14 yds in the air then it runs to 20 yds or I hit in 4 yds and it stops dead.
The xbox one is the same!
Joined the PS4 CC and went thru all 4 rds of the tourney finishing +26
My only real highlight was this 14 yd chip in birdie.. My putting was awful and i havent got a handle on how to chip at all despite that miracle I pulled off.
Any tips for getting that 12 yd chip to drop before 12 yds and roll. I either hit it 14 yds in the air then it runs to 20 yds or I hit in 4 yds and it stops dead.
I've changed to using pitch for all green work. I slowly pull the backswi g to a limited distance and full swing follow through. Pretty much how I do it real golf.
I went to practice green and dialed it in. Works about as often as in real life 65%-75 ish?
But when it works it's fun and it's less frustrating than using the chip mechanic imo
TheVisualizer
Banned
Thx for the tips ill give it a shot
Claude Dallas
Member
Been playing a ton first thing in the morning before heading to the course. It's funny how much worse I am when I play right after waking up.
It's great that it appears that they got the servers fixed in time for most of the weekend. I was able to get about 30 rounds played. Yeah, spent a LOT of time playing this this weekend.
Really, really enjoying it. It's crazy how like real golf it is... in my single player season I scored a 66 on a course in round 1 by hitting fairways draining a ton of long putts and then my 'thumb swing tempo' got away from me (started getting a lot of 'slow' downswings) and I started slicing the ball and missing the putts and I ended up with an 81 in round 2. What other golf game has those realistic swings in your performance?
Playing a custom single player season at the moment on hard difficulty - if you have over 10 events in a season you can do a major which is what I'm aiming for. The top 40 players in my club I renamed to the top 40 golfers in the world. It's awesome seeing random guys like Jason Dufner and Francesco Molinari lead a round early and then someone like Rickie Fowler ends up winning by 4 long after you're done your round. Rickie won the first event, Spieth won the second and I won the third. Hard is a perfectly judged challenge imo. McIlroy is struggling in my game, lol, he doesn't have a single top 10.
I would say now that the servers are fixed that the lack of personal stat tracking or season tracking is my biggest issue with the game. In golf everyone likes to play against themselves and their own scores and see how they've improved, or track their local tournament positions. So it's strange that there's no area of the game in which you can do this - there's no sense of progression at all.
I also think that chipping is a little weird - partial distance swinging just doesn't work great, meaning that a 30 yard pitch from deep rough is an easier shot that an 8 yard chip on flat ground from the fringe - that's not right. Either your chip goes the full distance and 'releases' - getting a good roll - or it goes less than halfway and bites. This is with perfect tempo and accuracy, too, which is much, much harder on a partial swing than on a full one. While that's true for a full shot in real life, it's not really true of a simple chip.
I've also started watching tutorial vids for course building. What an insane tool that is, it's definitely the most impressive part of the game. Now that you can use splines to draw out fairways etc I think it might be time to give it a look. The one thing I can't figure out right now is how to sculpt realistic, subtle slopes for my fairways and greens. When I do I'm gonna try to recreate my local course using the 'measure distance' feature in google maps satellite view to get it accurate. I laid out the holes by 'feel' originally but even tiny changes from what the reality is leads to quite a different course feel so I'm going to have to measure stuff out.
Also, in non-virtual news... when I was teeing off on the 10th yesterday playing with my old man Steph Curry was playing the 18th coming the other direction. I wouldn't even have known it was him if the club pro hadn't pointed him out as we went to the 10th tee. The early morning wave of players all got to meet him in the clubhouse when he finished - there's a bunch of Steph Curry selfies going around the office this morning, lol. He birdied the 18th, too. Well done Steph, lol.
Really, really enjoying it. It's crazy how like real golf it is... in my single player season I scored a 66 on a course in round 1 by hitting fairways draining a ton of long putts and then my 'thumb swing tempo' got away from me (started getting a lot of 'slow' downswings) and I started slicing the ball and missing the putts and I ended up with an 81 in round 2. What other golf game has those realistic swings in your performance?
Playing a custom single player season at the moment on hard difficulty - if you have over 10 events in a season you can do a major which is what I'm aiming for. The top 40 players in my club I renamed to the top 40 golfers in the world. It's awesome seeing random guys like Jason Dufner and Francesco Molinari lead a round early and then someone like Rickie Fowler ends up winning by 4 long after you're done your round. Rickie won the first event, Spieth won the second and I won the third. Hard is a perfectly judged challenge imo. McIlroy is struggling in my game, lol, he doesn't have a single top 10.
I would say now that the servers are fixed that the lack of personal stat tracking or season tracking is my biggest issue with the game. In golf everyone likes to play against themselves and their own scores and see how they've improved, or track their local tournament positions. So it's strange that there's no area of the game in which you can do this - there's no sense of progression at all.
I also think that chipping is a little weird - partial distance swinging just doesn't work great, meaning that a 30 yard pitch from deep rough is an easier shot that an 8 yard chip on flat ground from the fringe - that's not right. Either your chip goes the full distance and 'releases' - getting a good roll - or it goes less than halfway and bites. This is with perfect tempo and accuracy, too, which is much, much harder on a partial swing than on a full one. While that's true for a full shot in real life, it's not really true of a simple chip.
I've also started watching tutorial vids for course building. What an insane tool that is, it's definitely the most impressive part of the game. Now that you can use splines to draw out fairways etc I think it might be time to give it a look. The one thing I can't figure out right now is how to sculpt realistic, subtle slopes for my fairways and greens. When I do I'm gonna try to recreate my local course using the 'measure distance' feature in google maps satellite view to get it accurate. I laid out the holes by 'feel' originally but even tiny changes from what the reality is leads to quite a different course feel so I'm going to have to measure stuff out.
Also, in non-virtual news... when I was teeing off on the 10th yesterday playing with my old man Steph Curry was playing the 18th coming the other direction. I wouldn't even have known it was him if the club pro hadn't pointed him out as we went to the 10th tee. The early morning wave of players all got to meet him in the clubhouse when he finished - there's a bunch of Steph Curry selfies going around the office this morning, lol. He birdied the 18th, too. Well done Steph, lol.
Claude Dallas
Member
As someone with a 12 hdcp in real life I strongly disagree! I think those greenside wedge shots are the only thing keeping me from single digits right now.
MrPressStart
Member
My only gripe with the game and its minor ... but I feel that the balls have a bit too much roll in them. Its like a four foot put.. it seems silly to miss it and end up with a putt longer than what your first put was... just because the ball will not stop fucking rolling.
Claude Dallas
Member
That is entirely dependent on the speed and slope of the greens. And how hard you hit it obviously. On links style courses that is very common.
What's everyone's favourite official course so far? I really like Faxon Park - feels like a PGA Tour course, reminds me of something like Doral or TPC sawgrass. However has a really balanced difficulty that's more based around avoiding water hazards than hitting tiny fairways and there are very few of the unfortunate bounces into bunkers from the middle of the fairway you can get on some other courses. The greens are medium-fast but fairly sloped so they don't feel too punitive. The lack of a lot of trees makes the performance pretty good and the city skyline in the back is a nice touch, too. It's a good one. I like Victory Village for similar reasons but think I prefer Faxon overall - I'd have to go back and compare them.
I also love the Links at Royal Atlantic - absolutely gorgeous course.
17 hdcp here. I know it's tough to avoid decelerating on those short shots, and the closer to the hole you are the harder it is to avoid doing it. But the idea that it's easier to totally flub a chip from the fringe than anything from deep rough - not light rough but deep stuff - that's totally alien to me, personally. It's the deep rough where decelerating or not committing to a chip will really screw you up. Also, the idea that if you stub a chip you'll put actual backspin on it is weird.
I feel like anyone who plays regularly should have reasonable distance control on their chipping from the fringe, not hitting it 4 yards when you intended to hit it 12 and have it roll out to 20. Maybe I'm not getting what the game is trying to show me when you hit that shot.
I agree that the roll on most greens is way too much. It's like playing championship-level greens most of the time, where if you don't hit a certain part of the green the ball is going to end up in one of multiple catchment areas on the fringe of the green. Lofting the ball coming into the green helps, but only some. It just doesn't feel like the kind of golf most of us are out playing on the weekend.
But if you are lucky enough to play a course with medium or medium slow greens you'll see that the physics are pretty damn good - on medium-slow the ball acts just like it does on my local course and can actually stop on a light downslope (something that's basically impossible on fast, and made me question the physics initially). It's just that the vast majority of courses appear to have fast greens for difficulty so it feels like the physics are insane.
After understanding that green speed is a style/difficulty I have no problem with the idea that most courses are designed to championship standard. You just have to get used to it and play a course with slower greens when you get too frustrated.
I also love the Links at Royal Atlantic - absolutely gorgeous course.
17 hdcp here. I know it's tough to avoid decelerating on those short shots, and the closer to the hole you are the harder it is to avoid doing it. But the idea that it's easier to totally flub a chip from the fringe than anything from deep rough - not light rough but deep stuff - that's totally alien to me, personally. It's the deep rough where decelerating or not committing to a chip will really screw you up. Also, the idea that if you stub a chip you'll put actual backspin on it is weird.
I feel like anyone who plays regularly should have reasonable distance control on their chipping from the fringe, not hitting it 4 yards when you intended to hit it 12 and have it roll out to 20. Maybe I'm not getting what the game is trying to show me when you hit that shot.
I agree that the roll on most greens is way too much. It's like playing championship-level greens most of the time, where if you don't hit a certain part of the green the ball is going to end up in one of multiple catchment areas on the fringe of the green. Lofting the ball coming into the green helps, but only some. It just doesn't feel like the kind of golf most of us are out playing on the weekend.
But if you are lucky enough to play a course with medium or medium slow greens you'll see that the physics are pretty damn good - on medium-slow the ball acts just like it does on my local course and can actually stop on a light downslope (something that's basically impossible on fast, and made me question the physics initially). It's just that the vast majority of courses appear to have fast greens for difficulty so it feels like the physics are insane.
After understanding that green speed is a style/difficulty I have no problem with the idea that most courses are designed to championship standard. You just have to get used to it and play a course with slower greens when you get too frustrated.
Claude Dallas
Member
Honestly I think it's more that you hit the shots rarely so it feels more difficult to you. After a few rounds I got used to it, mostly because I was missing a lot of greens unfortunately. As long as you take into account green slope and hole placement and adjust accordingly it becomes pretty simple to at least leave yourself in the 5 foot range.
I'm having the opposite problem on the greens right now, trying to work up my career. These courses in the early career tournaments are medium and they seem insanely slow after hours on fast greens. I'm also over-reading almost all of the putts because of the severe break on so many of the hole placements in the society tournaments.
I'm having the opposite problem on the greens right now, trying to work up my career. These courses in the early career tournaments are medium and they seem insanely slow after hours on fast greens. I'm also over-reading almost all of the putts because of the severe break on so many of the hole placements in the society tournaments.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Got my copy, please add me to the PC/Steam list.
Steam username: khamakazee
Steam username: khamakazee
Yea I might give the chipping mechanic some more practice time but it felt so unreliable I was getting pissed. I can get better results using pitch with partial backswings.
The key to partial backswing is to accelerate the downswing.
At first I feared that the game did not recognize partial swings but it does just fine. You just have to make your backswing more slowly.
But I have been playin with chipping a bit and with enough practice I think I can figure it out.
Pitch can be worked from 55 and in to be a deadly tool though.
The key to partial backswing is to accelerate the downswing.
At first I feared that the game did not recognize partial swings but it does just fine. You just have to make your backswing more slowly.
But I have been playin with chipping a bit and with enough practice I think I can figure it out.
Pitch can be worked from 55 and in to be a deadly tool though.
Performance was really bad at first, but I'm thinking that was server trouble because I'm not really seeing it any more.
I posted a vid of the swing stutter you can get that totally screws up your backswing - and it can be a lot worse than this. But since the servers have been good I'm just not seeing it.
In comparison to the first game it's a night and day difference. Even on PS4 Pro you still had ridiculous frame rate variation and omnipresent screen tearing on TGC 1. It was close to unplayable without the Pro, only bearable with it. Well, there's essentially no screen tearing in TGC2, and the worst of the framerate variance or serious frame skips is when the ball is in the air off a drive and the engine has to draw a lot of foliage off in the distance. Obviously that doesn't matter so much as you're not actually playing the game while the ball is in the air. 90% of the time it feels solid to me, though, and you could never say that about the first. I'll note that courses with tons of foliage (Tropic Falls) have way more inconsistent performance than those without (Yuma Desert).
I'm sure digital foundry or whoever wouldn't think it's exactly smooth, but I'm just saying that it is a huge improvement over the first one and unless you're a card carrying member of the framerate police you'll be fine here.
Something else I've noticed, though, is some strange input interference. Sometimes the connection to the controller just drops, and your swing continues even if you stop pressing the stick. Or if you're aiming right using the stick, that input will continue multiple seconds after you've stopped pressing it. Again, maybe related to server issues. Not a huge deal as it's rare and has never actually interrupted one of my shots.
MarineMountie
Member
The Day 2 pin placements make for much harder puts on Victory Village...Struggling.
Great write-up and super helpful, thanks!
Louis Cyphre
Banned
Risk/Reward. I use the middle tiered clubs, I find they are just the right challenge for me and can hit average 285 yard drives. I also changed my club selections, removed the 5-wood for another wedge.
Is there a way for a player to spade or top a ball or are bad shots just unintended hook or slice?
Louis Cyphre
Banned
You can add a fade or draw to the ball and some spin (by pressing left trigger on the controller before the shot). Unintentional hooks and slices are due to bad timing of your swing. If you do a perfect backswing but fast forward swing it will hook/draw, if you do perfect backswing but slow forward swing then it will fade/slice the ball.
Jesus christ, was winning a career event on Highland Rise, -3 after 14 holes and I six-putted the 15th. My mind was so badly gone I rinsed 3 balls in the water on 17. From 3 strokes ahead to 43rd place, just like that. Golf is a cruel mistress.
EDIT: When selecting a course, there's 6 symbols. Holes, Par, Distance, Green Speed, Firmness and then a little diamond shape. What does the diamond mean?
If you get a 'very slow' on your tempo all kinds of things are possible, but it's rare enough that I'm not sure. I pretty much topped a drive 100 yards after a 'very slow' backswing caused by a frameskip, that's in the video I posted above. Maybe not a real 'top' but had the same effect in the end.
And I had my club go entirely under the ball on a flop shot with a very slow downswing, leaving the ball exactly where it was after a full swing. I've also caught the ball cleanly out of the rough and sent it flying over the green, so I believe that despite what the percentages says, it may well be possible to hit a flyer. I've also definitely thinned a chip and sent it racing through a green. Far more likely is to stub a chip just a couple of feet in front of you.
It plays a really, really good game of golf.
EDIT: When selecting a course, there's 6 symbols. Holes, Par, Distance, Green Speed, Firmness and then a little diamond shape. What does the diamond mean?
If you get a 'very slow' on your tempo all kinds of things are possible, but it's rare enough that I'm not sure. I pretty much topped a drive 100 yards after a 'very slow' backswing caused by a frameskip, that's in the video I posted above. Maybe not a real 'top' but had the same effect in the end.
And I had my club go entirely under the ball on a flop shot with a very slow downswing, leaving the ball exactly where it was after a full swing. I've also caught the ball cleanly out of the rough and sent it flying over the green, so I believe that despite what the percentages says, it may well be possible to hit a flyer. I've also definitely thinned a chip and sent it racing through a green. Far more likely is to stub a chip just a couple of feet in front of you.
It plays a really, really good game of golf.
TheVisualizer
Banned
Finished the 2nd PS4 CC tourney at E which is a good improvement from my +26 in the last one despite this being an easier course. I feel like im getting better in all phases of the game.
Ive been picking up on some things said in here that helped. Swapping out the 5W def made a difference. I tried a round with the GW but it didnt seem useful so I added another club (iron or hybrid that hits 194 yards) instead and it came in handy for several approach shots giving me a club with optimal distance to where I usually end up with my second shot from.
I also started using a slight fade or draw on my approach shots to try to land in the best areas to putt from and it worked more than it didnt. Lastly I stopped adjusting the trajectory higher to take off a few yards on shots as it seemed to be causing a lot of mis hits where my shot came up well short of where I expected it to land.
Im hooked on this game like no other golf game ive ever played.
Ive been picking up on some things said in here that helped. Swapping out the 5W def made a difference. I tried a round with the GW but it didnt seem useful so I added another club (iron or hybrid that hits 194 yards) instead and it came in handy for several approach shots giving me a club with optimal distance to where I usually end up with my second shot from.
I also started using a slight fade or draw on my approach shots to try to land in the best areas to putt from and it worked more than it didnt. Lastly I stopped adjusting the trajectory higher to take off a few yards on shots as it seemed to be causing a lot of mis hits where my shot came up well short of where I expected it to land.
Im hooked on this game like no other golf game ive ever played.
D, 3w, 3h, 4h 5i-pw, S, Lob
Gets it done....
And yep most engaging golf game I have played in years
Reminds me of a reincarnation of PGA Championship Golf 2000 on PC. The original analog golf swing game
My apologizes! I went ahead and scheduled events for the rest of the month. This one is running a bit shorter by mistake (until the end of the week) but all others for the rest of the month are a week long, no handicapped, 4 rounds. All with a $50 entry fee. 75% going back to the players. We will have a larger tourney after 10 tourneys or so.
Anyway for those who have yet to join the Xbox Society is Glory and Fortune CC (its the same as the PS4 one too)
Also here is a discord for the game I whipped up https://discord.gg/DHVBCwc
BigSoftieFF
Member
Just joined the PS society. BigSoftieFF.
Finished up the current Gaf tourney. Had a good 3rd round (-7) but choked the last round pretty bad. Ultimately the two four-putts I had in the second round will cost me any chance of winning. Think I ended up at -12.
Victory Village is a weird course. It's pretty, and the drives are pretty easy. The approach shots are medium difficulty but then the greens... I couldn't get a handle on them at all. Sometimes they felt medium fast, other times medium slow. The break seemed so inconsistent and there were multiple pins on ridges where the ball would fall away either side. Overall I still like it, just frustrated with the greens. There were also about 3 times where the grid showed no break only for there to be significant break. For a game where you rely on the grid because you can't actually walk the green like you would in real life, that's frustrating. I definitely prefer Faxon Park.
Also finished my single player season with a major event. They have work to do with these single player tournaments. First of all, there's no difference to a major. So what's the point of calling it that? Felt like any other tourney. Then I was battling Hideki Matsuyama and Chris Wood for the championship down the stretch, and eagled the last to win. It was awesome. Only wait, I didn't win. Apparently Dustin Johnson was yet to tee off and the game just told me afterwards that he won and I came second.
They need to make it so that it's a proper tournament with tee times, where the leader goes out last etc. As it is it's impossible to judge where you are in a tournament. Also, if they could give you an AI partner and show his ball as if it was an asymmetric ghost (ie hitting at the same time as you so as not to slow your round) that would be so, so good.
The other thing they need to do is establish a better stats system. I have an excel sheet to track my rounds, my seasons and my best scores. All of this should be done by the game. It should also tell you stuff like how many fairways you hit and how many putts you took after the round.
The good news is that all that stuff is patchable, and HB Studios has shown a willingness to improve their game over time. The stuff that's not patchable (or very difficult) - the basic gameplay, course design, course designer tool - all of that is just brilliant. Loving the game.
Victory Village is a weird course. It's pretty, and the drives are pretty easy. The approach shots are medium difficulty but then the greens... I couldn't get a handle on them at all. Sometimes they felt medium fast, other times medium slow. The break seemed so inconsistent and there were multiple pins on ridges where the ball would fall away either side. Overall I still like it, just frustrated with the greens. There were also about 3 times where the grid showed no break only for there to be significant break. For a game where you rely on the grid because you can't actually walk the green like you would in real life, that's frustrating. I definitely prefer Faxon Park.
Also finished my single player season with a major event. They have work to do with these single player tournaments. First of all, there's no difference to a major. So what's the point of calling it that? Felt like any other tourney. Then I was battling Hideki Matsuyama and Chris Wood for the championship down the stretch, and eagled the last to win. It was awesome. Only wait, I didn't win. Apparently Dustin Johnson was yet to tee off and the game just told me afterwards that he won and I came second.
They need to make it so that it's a proper tournament with tee times, where the leader goes out last etc. As it is it's impossible to judge where you are in a tournament. Also, if they could give you an AI partner and show his ball as if it was an asymmetric ghost (ie hitting at the same time as you so as not to slow your round) that would be so, so good.
The other thing they need to do is establish a better stats system. I have an excel sheet to track my rounds, my seasons and my best scores. All of this should be done by the game. It should also tell you stuff like how many fairways you hit and how many putts you took after the round.
The good news is that all that stuff is patchable, and HB Studios has shown a willingness to improve their game over time. The stuff that's not patchable (or very difficult) - the basic gameplay, course design, course designer tool - all of that is just brilliant. Loving the game.
MrPressStart
Member
Games with ???? as the difficulty... How do we know if we should try them? My wife likes to play with me, but doesn't like super hard courses as she is still learning. There are some cool looking courses in the game, but the difficulty is ??? ..... any idea what that means?
I can't say for sure but I'm assuming it hasn't been played enough to have a difficulty registered? Obviously all the official courses have difficulties naturally. But if someone publishes a new course then there's no way of telling until some people have played it and shot above / below their handicap.
I haven't played any non-official courses yet - the 20 official ones we have are pretty great.
I believe this is the case. Once the course has been played enough times, it should register the calculate difficulty ratings.
Wow... I've been playing TGC and now TGC 2 for years and I never realised that the putting marker has any effect on distance. My mind is fucking blown right now. I had always suspected but never understood...
This knowledge is going to make the game so much easier... it's always my distance that's way off.
HB Studios Lorin B said:
This knowledge is going to make the game so much easier... it's always my distance that's way off.
Yeah, I remember reading about the putting "snap" that it did in TGC. It isn't like EA, where it locks in your distance, but it helps get it right when you are close. Granted, you still need to figure out the correct distance you want the putt to go and then hit the shot within the "smoothed" range for it help.
If you are outside of that range, it won't have any effect. It's still useful to move the marker anyways however, especially on uphill putts as if leave the marker at the default position at the hole, you are more likely to miss it short if it smooths your distance back to that mark.
nowheretorun
Member
Really wish performance was improved much more with regards to pop-in - it's bloody atrocious. :-( (looking to play on a ps4 pro).
However, I'm still considering purchasing but would like to know if there are any Real Courses in the game?
I am right in thinking I can get any Real Course via the Course Editor albeit with different names?
If so, is there a comprehensive list anywhere which points me in the right direction of said Real (imitated) Courses?
However, I'm still considering purchasing but would like to know if there are any Real Courses in the game?
I am right in thinking I can get any Real Course via the Course Editor albeit with different names?
If so, is there a comprehensive list anywhere which points me in the right direction of said Real (imitated) Courses?