Reallink
Member
As realism and particularly FOV increases in second and third gen HMDs, sim sickness is going to become a bigger issue, even for some who experience none in the current headsets.
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The High-end VR Discussion Thread (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, Playstation VR)
- Thread starter Cartman86
- Start date
As realism and particularly FOV increases in second and third gen HMDs, sim sickness is going to become a bigger issue, even for some who experience none in the current headsets.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Really hyped for Sprint Vector.
buckfutter
Member
I was really excited for Lone Echo, but honestly I think my new favourite VR game is To The Top. It's just so exhilarating to play, and the developers' success at creating a VR experience with such a clear focus on fast and fluid forward propulsion makes me very excited for things like Sprint Vector. It basically feels like a spiritual successor to Mirrors Edge, only straight out of left field.
Has anyone played Raw Data on the Vive and Oculus? Which one provides the better experience?
I have a psVR and know it's releasing on PS4 in the future. Might wait to try it on that before purchasing another VR headset.
Btw, does anyone know if second gen headsets will be releasing soon (Vive/Oculus)?
I have a psVR and know it's releasing on PS4 in the future. Might wait to try it on that before purchasing another VR headset.
Btw, does anyone know if second gen headsets will be releasing soon (Vive/Oculus)?
Auto-Reply
Member
Nobody knows this, HTC and Facebook both denied having a new HMD out in upcoming months.
Everybodies hope on a new/better high end HMD that is comparable to Vive and Rift is on LG but they have not announced a release date or any other new infos recently. We don't know when they are coming out with new infos (they could even announce to change their plans entirely for all we know and then we aren't getting a possible Vive/Rift replacement from them).
The only alternative are the Windows MR HMDs and they only have slightly better resolution than Vive/Rift but their tracking/controller tracking is still questionable if it can keep up in all situations with lighthouse or the camera based Rift tracking. There are maybe more things I don't know about that are uncertain with these Windows HMD.
Azure Dream
Member
HTC could put out a Vive 1.5 right now if they wanted to, building in some of the after-market upgrades and Valve's newer tech. Add in one or two extra QOL features like a tilting visor, and even just that would be exciting. But so far no official word.
Like LCD panels.
(Also, I don't think it's even in question whether they "can keep up in all situations with lighthouse" -- they can't, it's physically impossible)
If anyone ever wanted to try out improv comedy, Eel Team 6 in VRChat has some amazing improv nights with open signups every other week. I lost it last week when this dude came in with Nemo singing a song about finding his son.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_DGV_GHwrY&list=PLyiJLEug1LByR8ZP-BmhwiZh8lXTKYQgS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_DGV_GHwrY&list=PLyiJLEug1LByR8ZP-BmhwiZh8lXTKYQgS
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Timestamp for Nemo song?
Calibrated Chaos
Member
I'm really conflicted between the 3 headsets. I have a PS4 pro and I also have a desktop with a 1070 in it. It's not a large room by any means. I definitely want the least wires possible but I'm not going to drop $300 on the tpcast.
With your pc, definitely go for vive or oculus since they allow for room scale.
PS VR is limited by both the camera and the ps move controllers. With only 1 camera tracking the move controllers, tracking will be lost the moment they are out of view (including when you're obstructing the camera) so you normally limited to games that focused more on the front to 180 degrees. Since you dont have analog sticks on the move, you either get awkward work arounds to move around or games like upcoming Skyrim that disable normal movement when using the move.
Vive/oculus allow for room scale vr, so you can pick things off the ground, turn around etc without losing tracking of the controllers. Theres also a bigger library of games as you can play steam vr and oculus games no matter which headset you buy. On top of that, mods are available for non vr games like alien isolation so theres a bigger range of opportunities for vr whether or not devs officially support it or not.
Vive uses a lighthouse system that do not need to be wired to the pc so thats a big advantage over oculus if you want less wires (with oculus, for full tracking you'll need one sensor positioned at the back of the play space connected by a usb+extension cable. All the headsets will have wires though that connect directly to the headset so you won't be able to avoid the wires that are by your feet/legs. Some people use a ceiling set up to hold the wires if they bother you too much. TPcast is definately expensive (especially when it doesnt allow mic support from the headset).
Your pc will be able to play vr games that look and perform better than the ps4 pro too.
Why to choose PS VR:
- exclusive ps4 vr games
- its the most comfortable of the big 3 headsets
- Probably the easiest to set up
- least expensive overall
Why to choose Oculus or Vive:
- Perfect tracking + room scale (vive is perfect out of the box, oculus requires a 3rd sensor)
- Controllers are leagues above ps move (Oculus is the best right now with touch but Steam Knuckles controllers will come out soon that are a step above oculus touch)
- Exclusive pc games (both headsets can play oculus and steam vr games). Oculus seem to be pushing for an exclusive pc vr game almost every month.
- Better graphics, performance etc
Calibrated Chaos
Member
Think you sold me on the vive. Thank you.
How essential is the deluxe audio strap? Anything else I may have to invest in besides the $599 bundle?
Blam
Member
If you don't like multiple cables really you don't need the strap. But no you should be fine with everything else.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
They really should be packing Vives with the DAS standard now.
no worries, glad to have helped a little
I have the oculus so from what I've seen vive owners say on gaf, is that the audio strap is definately worth getting. Aside from that I don't think theres anything extra to get outside the bundle. Of course, the knuckles controllers will be an extra cost but that doesnt have a set release date yet from what i've read.
Since you're getting vive, be sure to read up on ReVive (3rd party app that allows you to play oculus rift games).
Calibrated Chaos
Member
no worries, glad to have helped a little
I have the oculus so from what I've seen vive owners say on gaf, is that the audio strap is definately worth getting. Aside from that I don't think theres anything extra to get outside the bundle. Of course, the knuckles controllers will be an extra cost but that doesnt have a set release date yet from what i've read.
Since you're getting vive, be sure to read up on ReVive (3rd party app that allows you to play oculus rift games).
I was definitely learning toward Oculus originally but since the price went up the the lighthouse system seems better I'm thinking that's the way to go. Is ReVive clunky at all? Am I missing out on games by going Vive?
From what i've read ReVive isn't a perfect plug in and play solution, some games require some settings/options to be tweaked but all those tweaks are available online so it isn't hard (plus other vive owners on gaf will normally be doing the same stuff too).
I think one of the recent oculus games, Lone Echo and Echo Arena, required some tweaking to run perfectly (A user in the pc vr thread was having some minor difficulties getting lone echo to run smoothly but managed to fix it). Every pc vr game is playable though so you're not missing out on any games at all. Although, I think in-game controllers may display as oculus controllers if they are oculus store exclusive games.
Take the above with a grain of salt though, since I have no experience with reVive. I'm basing it off what i've read here and on reddit.
Lighthouse is definately the better tracking system since you only need 2 and they don't need to be plugged into the pc (they just need to plugged in to a power socket). oculus on the other hand need to be plugged in to the pc via usb (no power sockets needed though) so you're looking at a total of 4 usb slots for oculus.
When it comes to controllers, I think personally Oculus is the best one for short term due to the oculus touch controllers. However, vive owners have the advantage in the long term thanks to the knuckles controller (since it tracks what each finger is doing on the controller).
Wowfunhappy
Member
I'd consider it 100% essential, but that's because I found the original strap really uncomfortable. Might be worth seeing if that bothers you first.
Originally, you had to toggle two (!) check boxes in SteamVR's settings in order for Lone Echo / Echo Arena to run smoothly. This has since been fixed.
ReVive is extremely easy to use.
I've seen a few suggestions on poles and the like to mount the Vive sensors on.. beyond the one in the OP, can any owners suggest a specific product they're using? Should you anticipate basically spending another $100+ on some sort of mounting bracket and poles/tripods/whatever? This seems like it could be a good option and I guess it already has the ball head mount built in: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MFG14ZT/?tag=neogaf0e-20 -- a lot cheaper to say the least.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Veritigo_X
Member
Tripods work alright, but I noticed a little bit of jittering due to slight vibrations from the lighthouses. I ended up just mounted the lighthouses to the walls using the included brackets in my office and use the tripods when I use the Vive in my living room for parties or whatever. The jittering only seems to be noticeable to me (friends don't notice it), but it bothered me enough to want a more sturdy solution, which happened to be the solution included with the Vive. Plus, I didn't like all the space the tripods took up in my relatively small office.
If you able to, I would definitely wall mount the lighthouses. Otherwise the tripods aren't a bad solution. I happily used the Vive with tripods for a few months before deciding to wall mount.
I went with painter's rods. Like this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004HL01T8/?tag=neogaf0e-20
You expand them until they touch the floor and the ceiling, then screw them until they're pushing firmly and can no longer move. They have less vibration than tripods and consume no floor area.
I attached the Vive sensors to the poles with some camera clamps:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DJ5XH4O/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Any hype for the Pimax 8k? (By 8k they mean two 4k screens)
According to them, they've solved the ghosting and low brightness issues that apparently plagued their '4k' headset from last year via new custom screen technology. Which alone would put it on the radar.
But not only that, they've upped the resolution to pseudo-8K, they've upped the FOV from the standard 110 to /200/ (now we're talking a consumer StarVR headset), and for the cherry on top, they're not only adopting Valve's tracking technology, they're full-on supporting preexisting peripherals!
As in, if you own a Vive already, you can buy a standalone 8K headset and re-use your Lighthouses and wands (and of course, I hope, future Knuckles). Also a full bundle for non-Vive owners. Also coming is a '5k' headset at a cheaper price, and possibly an OLED screen.
With Lighthouse tracking, Vive controller support, huge FOV (which is the one spec I wanted to improve most of all), huge resolution, 90Hz refresh rate, this thing seems like a dream come true. A leap beyond what I expected for gen2, and it's supposedly shipping in December of this year (albeit, via a Kickstarter).
Thoughts? Here's their kickstarter preview for perusing, which is apparently going up Sep 19th.
Prices aren't finalized, but comments are that the early-bird Headset was $449, standard headset was $499, and Gearbest's preorder page for the full kit was $799
According to them, they've solved the ghosting and low brightness issues that apparently plagued their '4k' headset from last year via new custom screen technology. Which alone would put it on the radar.
But not only that, they've upped the resolution to pseudo-8K, they've upped the FOV from the standard 110 to /200/ (now we're talking a consumer StarVR headset), and for the cherry on top, they're not only adopting Valve's tracking technology, they're full-on supporting preexisting peripherals!
As in, if you own a Vive already, you can buy a standalone 8K headset and re-use your Lighthouses and wands (and of course, I hope, future Knuckles). Also a full bundle for non-Vive owners. Also coming is a '5k' headset at a cheaper price, and possibly an OLED screen.
With Lighthouse tracking, Vive controller support, huge FOV (which is the one spec I wanted to improve most of all), huge resolution, 90Hz refresh rate, this thing seems like a dream come true. A leap beyond what I expected for gen2, and it's supposedly shipping in December of this year (albeit, via a Kickstarter).
Thoughts? Here's their kickstarter preview for perusing, which is apparently going up Sep 19th.
Prices aren't finalized, but comments are that the early-bird Headset was $449, standard headset was $499, and Gearbest's preorder page for the full kit was $799
I just made a thread about it. (I found it independently and just read this thread now, otherwise I'd have credited Shoyz!)
About performance: I'm currently rendering 10.2 MP per frame for Vive in pretty much everything, more than that in some games. And that's on a 1080 (non-ti). Throughout 2018 and with its GPUs (and continuous software-side advances in VR rendering) I think 2*4k is plenty, but not overkill.
About performance: I'm currently rendering 10.2 MP per frame for Vive in pretty much everything, more than that in some games. And that's on a 1080 (non-ti). Throughout 2018 and with its GPUs (and continuous software-side advances in VR rendering) I think 2*4k is plenty, but not overkill.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Friend asked a question yesterday I realized I didn't know the answer to--can anyone explain why the rift needs three cameras for room scale (2 in front, one behind) as opposed to either two (one in front, one behind) or four (two in front, two behind)?
Put another way, why would two cameras be necessary on one side and not the other?
Put another way, why would two cameras be necessary on one side and not the other?
Chairmanchuck
Member
You can have roomscale with 2 cameras if your room is clean. You mostly need 3 because if you turn around, it wont track the Touch Controllers, if your body is blocking them.
Its a bit tricky with just 2. Right now I am using two and I guess would need a 3rd, because they sit on my desk at the end and I cant really touch my ground, because it loses the connection. If I put one behind me on a shelf, it could track the controllers and could track the ground.
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
.
3 eliminates any blind spots for the camera/sensors. Each camera will detect controllers and headset in a cone emitting from it (smaller detection radius upclose and gets bigger the further you are away from it).
So with 2 sensors infront but looking down from a high position (placed on the corners of the playspace, they will cover the room with their "cones" of detection. however, the moment you turn around to look behind you, your body will block the controllers and tracking will stop.
Having a 3rd sensor behind you(again looking down from a high point) solves this problem by covering the blind spots.
With 3 sensors you have complete room scale allowing you to turn in any direction and play close to the floor(ducking, picking things off floor etc).
Having a 4th camera is overkill, probably only neccessary if you have an odd shaped playspace.
Not sure if it got picked up here, but Organ Quarter has been delayed because the lead dev is based in east/south-east Florida. Spent the best part of the last week shuttering everything. I think he just lost power.
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...re-ga/posts/1984157?ref=backer_project_update
We were on track for release this month and everything. No idea how long power will be out for.
Edit: aaand just realised this thread is about the tech not the games. Will put this in the pcvr thread.
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...re-ga/posts/1984157?ref=backer_project_update
We were on track for release this month and everything. No idea how long power will be out for.
Edit: aaand just realised this thread is about the tech not the games. Will put this in the pcvr thread.
Calibrated Chaos
Member
What's best practice for lighthouse placement?
You can try to use 2, it's just not very good.
The reason 2 lighthouses are sufficient but 2 cameras are not is that camera-based tracking is less accurate at range, and that the cameras have a significantly smaller field of view than the lighthouse base stations (which technically don't have a "field of view" but rather an emission angle).
In opposite corners of your play space, above your head, angled downward, with fixed mounting.
Mister_Bubbles
Member
Are the lighthouses supposed to point towards the middle point on the floor of the your play space?
Edit: Btw, Calibrated Chaos, don't know if this is useful to you but there is a Steam workshop lighthouse skin you can get which shows the coverage of the lighthouses which is pretty cool.
Edit: Btw, Calibrated Chaos, don't know if this is useful to you but there is a Steam workshop lighthouse skin you can get which shows the coverage of the lighthouses which is pretty cool.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Some impressions from someone who tried the most recent version of the Pimax prototype headset.
Sounds pretty solid. If this thing was wireless or had a wireless add on (and I had a better video card) I'd be pretty tempted to upgrade to this assuming some of the kinks mentioned are actually ironed out for the consumer version.
Sounds pretty solid. If this thing was wireless or had a wireless add on (and I had a better video card) I'd be pretty tempted to upgrade to this assuming some of the kinks mentioned are actually ironed out for the consumer version.
Auto-Reply
Member
Not sure if mentioned already but someone made C64 VR project:
http://64jim64.blogspot.de/2017/09/vr64-virtual-reality-goggles-for.html
http://csdb.dk/release/?id=158765
(Yeah not really applicable to this thread)
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Unrelated but interesting article
A History of Virtual Reality/
http://64jim64.blogspot.de/2017/09/vr64-virtual-reality-goggles-for.html
http://csdb.dk/release/?id=158765
(Yeah not really applicable to this thread)
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Unrelated but interesting article
A History of Virtual Reality/
Zalusithix
Member
Bit late to the reply on this, but 8k and wireless? Not happening, at least not in the near term. We're having a hard enough time getting current headset resolutions sent out over the air.
It's apparently not sending "8K" to the headset anyway, 2x1440p are being sent to it and upscaled on the headset itself to 2x4k.
Zalusithix
Member
Upscaling in VR is pointless. Upscalers are useful for taking lower resolution sources and bringing them to a natively higher resolution display as cleanly as possible. It also adds latency to the chain. In VR there is no "old" source that you're trying to mate with new higher display standards. If you only have an effective rendering resolution of X, I can't see any benefit of using a display with a resolution above X. At that point you're just wasting money on screens with capabilities you're not using.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I think that was the "4k" version. The new one isn't actually 8k either but it has two 3840x2160 displays.
I know it won't have it any time soon. Just saying that could tempt me to upgrade earlier than I planned if not for the fact that we're getting wireless for current headsets soon.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Ahhh. That's weird. Makes this chart they posted pretty misleading if I understand what you're saying correctly:
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On a separate but related note, LG just patented some tech to alleviate the screen door effect.
Zalusithix
Member
I don't think there's anything particularly noteworthy about using a diffusing layer to reduce SDE. Essentially reduces SDE at the cost of sharpness. Just a matter of getting the right balance between the two.
Ahhh. That's weird. Makes this chart they posted pretty misleading if I understand what you're saying correctly:
________________
On a separate but related note, LG just patented some tech to alleviate the screen door effect.
Real pros, can't even spell "resolution" correctly.
Oculus is still the best for me for all round, but PS VR is leagues ahead in comfort.
frogger
Member
Why does psvr requires the camera and Oculus doesn't.
Zalusithix
Member
Both the Rift and PSVR require a camera to counter IMU drift by looking at LED markers on the headset/controllers. The primary difference is that PSVR uses a single stereoscopic visible light camera, and the Rift uses an IR camera. In the case of using Touch controllers, a Rift setup will have 2-4 of the sensors set up around the play space to minimize occlusion. Both Rift and PSVR are marker based outside-in tracking setups; the sensors are outside of the tracked objects, and the objects require specific markers (the LEDs) to be tracked.
Meanwhile the Vive inverts the sensor / emitter roles and has lighthouses (IR emitters) which are set up in the room and tracked by sensors on the headset and controllers. Then you have the Windows Holographic headsets/controllers which use cameras on the headset to triangulate the position of the headset within the room without anything special like lighthouses set up. It also uses the cameras to track the controllers (which have visible spectrum LEDs on them) and thus can get an absolute position of them in relation to the headset. Both of these would be inside-out tracking systems, with the Windows Holographic sets also being markerless in nature. Markerless inside out tracking is the holy grail for VR/AR, but only time will tell how well Microsoft's implementation works in practice out in the wild. Controller tracking is also a question for Microsoft's setup since it requires the controllers to be in view of the headset's front facing cameras to have absolute positioning. For cases where the controllers are out of view, it'll have to rely on the IMU within the controller and IK to best guess the position.
PSVR is objectively the weakest of the lot when it comes to tracking tech since it has no ability to handle 360 tracking without occlusion issues. Obviously roomscale is out of the question. There's only so much you can do with outside-in tracking when there's only a single point of reference. Rift and Vive are comparable on capability, but the limitations of camera FoV will dictate that a Rift setup will have marginally less usable space than a Vive setup in the exact same room. (Assuming wall to wall coverage is desired.) Routing all the USB cables back to the computer can also be a challenge for the Rift. Windows Holographic headsets can't be objectively judged until they're out in the wild in numbers.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Vive is the easiest/most immersive setup IMO. To get a similar experience with the Oculus it requires a lot more hardware and inconvenient cable routing. The Vive literally only runs off one USB port.
Personally I find the actual headset design of the Oculus to be nicer and more elegant, but as a complete out of the box experience the Vive is the way to go IMO. I love mine.
Space Pirate Trainer leaving early access, large update October 12th.
https://uploadvr.com/space-pirate-trainer-launch-october/
Still one of my favorite VR games to date. Includes new waves, boss fights, and mothership level.
https://uploadvr.com/space-pirate-trainer-launch-october/
Still one of my favorite VR games to date. Includes new waves, boss fights, and mothership level.
Can anyone recommend an HDMI cord to use with Oculus? I have a capable HDMI repeater, and am plugging the HDMI cord into a DVI adapter. 3 foot HDMI cord works fine, but I bought a high-speed 4k monoprice 10 ft cable from Amazon, and it works but will lose signal randomly, every few minutes or so.
I need a 10 ft cable for my set up.
I need a 10 ft cable for my set up.