Well, what do you think of it then?I didn't said that.
Well, what do you think of it then?I didn't said that.
What? I'm not talking about the plot, i was obviously talking about the visual concept.
Man the game looks beyond pretty visually. Pretty stoked for it. I've been clamoring for a game that did pretty much what this does visually.
Yeah but I don't think the concept of people losing all meaning in life just because they don't have jobs is something that would actually happen. If I was financially stable without the need to work I would find more meaning in life.
So you're saying all devs are the same when it comes to expressing these questionable opinions? That none are capable of having these beliefs while keeping it to themselves or being respectable about it if possible? That the only choice devs have is to throw these opinions in our faces and dares us to react?Those "boycott" comments are kinda funny, especially when they are from ND fanboys or every other developers around there, do you guys thing there aren't white supremacist, nazis, sexist or racists among the employee of your favorite developers? No, they are, even if they don't said it publicly a small amount of people with these ideas are in the gaming industry, just like every other media.
Ya just gotta love the people who are totally proud that they have no principles and think they're morally superior over the ones who do. They really are the most vapid people imaginable.
So we're just going to pretend that this isn't about a dystopia "Where feminism won"?
Like many have said, this isn't just a matter of a terrible person (in this particular case, a proven White Supremacist) being involved in the production of a game. That will probably always happen, because there are many people with awful world views. Is it OK? Of course it's not, no one would disagree with that.
In this particular case, we're talking about the game itself being based on this toxic notion that a world with empowered women is a dystopia. That's the concept of this whole thing. Pretty graphics and art are NOT a concept, they amount to little more than the decoration of a cake. In this case, the cake itself is made of shitty world views. It's a cake of shit with a beautiful decoration. It will still taste like shit. And this isn't me guessing - those ideas are well-documented, as many have pointed out.
If you don't understand this, it's useless to further engage in a conversation.
So are we now saying that we only want fiction that we can agree with? I personally dont agree with the idea of the game but I simply wouldnt buy it, as I imagine many in here will do the same.
What seems over the top is the constant vilifying of those that are comfortable enough to purchase it, or dont care enough to let it bother them. The holier than thou attitude is unnecessary. If you dont like it then dont support it but constantly ganging up on posters who think otherwise is pointless. There are people in here taking it personal that people are excited for a game that they themselves disagree with. Live and let live and all that.
So are we now saying that we only want fiction that we can agree with? I personally dont agree with the idea of the game but I simply wouldnt buy it, as I imagine many in here will do the same.
What seems over the top is the constant vilifying of those that are comfortable enough to purchase it, or dont care enough to let it bother them. The holier than thou attitude is unnecessary. If you dont like it then dont support it but constantly ganging up on posters who think otherwise is pointless. There are people in here taking it personal that people are excited for a game that they themselves disagree with. Live and let live and all that.
It's fiction. I think it's a pretty stupid scenario, but judging said stupid scenario as it how it would pan out in real life is silly. How it this any different from nazis taking over the world or South Korea invading the US?In this particular case, we're talking about the game itself being based on this toxic notion that a world with empowered women is a dystopia. That's the concept of this whole thing. Pretty graphics and art are NOT a concept, they amount to little more than the decoration of a cake. In this case, the cake itself is made of shitty world views. It's a cake of shit with a beautiful decoration. It will still taste like shit. And this isn't me guessing - those ideas are well-documented, as many have pointed out.
It's fiction. I think it's a pretty stupid scenario, but judging said stupid scenario as it how it would pan out in real life is silly. How it this any different from nazis taking over the world or South Korea taking over the US?
How is feminism different from Nazi's? Hmm lemme thinkIt's fiction. I think it's a pretty stupid scenario, but judging said stupid scenario as it how it would pan out in real life is silly. How it this any different from nazis taking over the world or South Korea invading the US?
People uncomfortable with it should absolutely not support it.
So are we now saying that we only want fiction that we can agree with? I personally don't agree with the idea of the game but I simply wouldn't buy it, as I imagine many in here will do the same.
What seems over the top is the constant vilifying of those that are comfortable enough to purchase it, or don't care enough to let it bother them. The holier than thou attitude is unnecessary. If you don't like it then don't support it but constantly ganging up on posters who think otherwise is pointless. There are people in here taking it personal that people are excited for a game that they themselves disagree with. Live and let live and all that.
It's fiction. I think it's a pretty stupid scenario, but judging said stupid scenario as it how it would pan out in real life is silly. How it this any different from nazis taking over the world or South Korea invading the US?
People uncomfortable with it should absolutely not support it.
How is feminism different from Nazi's? Hmm lemme think
Those "boycott" comments are kinda funny, especially when they are from ND fanboys or every other developers around there, do you guys thing there aren't white supremacist, nazis, sexist or racists among the employee of your favorite developers? No, they are, even if they don't said it publicly a small amount of people with these ideas are in the gaming industry, just like every other media.
Well, I saw this video on Youtube about Feminazis so let me tell you all about it. It all began with Adam and Eve and
Its fiction isnt any kind of excuse or rebuttal.It's fiction. I think it's a pretty stupid scenario, but judging said stupid scenario as it how it would pan out in real life is silly.
Fiction and reality are not some distant forever-apart entities. Fiction can mold and influence, convince and enlighten, spread and introduce ideas to people. By presenting certain views through specific lenses and scenarios, what is blatant and ugly when exposed and laid bare could be presented as understandable or even logical, easy to digest and believe.
Consider The Birth of a Nation or Bannons grotesquely racist and xenophobic favorite novel The Camp of the Saints or propaganda films
Not saying The Last Night is on the same level as those, but the underlying truth is the same. Media that spreads racist, xenophobic, misogynistic, etc. views can and will influence some who consume it.
Because Nazis taking over america is usually not portrait as a good thing.
How is feminism different from Nazi's? Hmm lemme think
I'm not saying this particular game won't be a shitshow in that regard. I'm just saying that I don't see how this is a scenario that can never be done. Fiction has dealt with extremists as villains for everything so I don't see how this is a "toxic idea" beyond the fact that the creator is making it a point to be as toxic about it as possibleBecause games with Nazis taking over the world have them as the bad guys you're fighting to overthrow. Here, you are literally fighting to overthrow "feminism."
Replace "it" with "a game where feminism winning turns society into a dystopia" and see whether that sounds any more reasonable.
Yer gonna leave me hangin?
.....you do realize Nazis are trying to take over the US, right?How it this any different from nazis taking over the world
Again, feminists are not extremists. Like damn equality of the people is good. You don't see what's outrageous about making that the driver of a dystopia? Painting feminism and thus equality of the sexes as bad is toxic, no matter what the contextI'm not saying this particular game won't be a shitshow in that regard. I'm just saying that I don't see how this is a scenario that can never be done. Fiction has dealt with extremists as villains for everything so I don't see how this is a "toxic idea" beyond the fact that the creator is making it a point to be as toxic about it as possible
There's a way this can be done. This isn't it.
Well this is all too real.Please support me on Patreon and I will gladly tell you all about it.
That's what I'm saying, it doesn't have to sound reasonable. It's a game, a work of fiction. Playing a game like that is no different to watching a film with a plot that is nonsensical or uncomfortable. You don't have to agree with an idea to experience it.
It's fiction. I think it's a pretty stupid scenario, but judging said stupid scenario as it how it would pan out in real life is silly. How it this any different from nazis taking over the world or South Korea invading the US?
People uncomfortable with it should absolutely not support it.
I'm not saying this particular game won't be a shitshow in that regard. I'm just saying that I don't see how this is a scenario that can never be done. Fiction has dealt with extremists as villains for everything so I don't see how this is a "toxic idea" beyond the fact that the creator is making it a point to be as toxic about it as possible
There's a way this can be done. This isn't it.
If you spent 31 years on this earth and you haven't done either of those things or thought dumb ass thoughts you are a more righteous human being then me my g.
There are people who identify as feminists who are extreme and the vast majority of people, including other self-identifying feminists, disagree with them. There aren't enough of them that it really matters what they think and they certainly won't be deciding the future but there are extremists in every ideology and they are fair game for exploration in fiction.Again, feminists are not extremists. Like damn equality of the people is good. You don't see what's outrageous about making that the driver of a dystopia? Painting feminism and thus equality of the sexes as bad is toxic, no matter what the context
This person said it more succinctly.There are people who identify as feminists who are extreme and the vast majority of people, including other self-identifying feminists, disagree with them. There aren't enough of them that it really matters what they think and they certainly won't be deciding the future but there are extremists in every ideology and they are fair game for exploration in fiction.
I know that's not the type of feminism the game allegedly addresses but I think it's important to remember that all ideologies contain many strains and that someone referring to an feminist as an extremist isn't necessarily talking about vanilla equity feminism.
That sums up my point pretty well. I don't see the issue with extremist zealotry being painted in a bad light as long as its made clear that its supposed to be extremist zealotry and not a representation of the whole thing, which is something I doubt this game will care to do.There are people who identify as feminists who are extreme and the vast majority of people, including other self-identifying feminists, disagree with them. There aren't enough of them that it really matters what they think and they certainly won't be deciding the future but there are extremists in every ideology and they are fair game for exploration in fiction.
I know that's not the type of feminism the game allegedly addresses but I think it's important to remember that all ideologies contain many strains and that someone referring to a feminist as an extremist isn't necessarily talking about vanilla equity feminism. Some people are though, of course, and they are turds.
You mean because, like most games, this one has a single, predetermined protagonist?Soooo I'm guessing I won't be able to play a gay character?
IIRC the guy said the MC is bisexualSoooo I'm guessing I won't be able to play a gay character?
I think the disconnect between me and the other posters here is that most people here look at this game targeting your everyday feminists - people who respect women and want everyone to have equal rights, which I consider myself a part of, even though I don't use that term to self-identify.
What I think this game targets, is the 'SJW' caricature of feminists - obnoxious, man-hating, #killallmen tweeting, manspreading denouncing women. Now of course, that's just a fringe element of modern feminism, but unfortunately that got amplified during twitter wars/shitslinging when GG happened.
Do I think that's a big enough issue that it's worth addressing at a large scale? No. 'Extreme' feminists are few and far between and if they act a fool like that Hula Hoop Lyft girl, they get exposed and made fun of on the internet. I do enjoy when cases of hysteria like that or the 'dreads' college girl get called out, and I would use the term SJW to refer to them unironically, so I'm different from many Gaffers in that aspect.
I'm not right-wing/alt-right. As an Indian my race is a common target of theirs. I don't think men are more/as much oppressed as women or any other bullshit MRAs believe. But I do think this could be an amusing subject to tackle as a video game, as long as it's done with a lot of subtlety. By that I mean I hope it doesn't read like it's written by a reddit/4chan manchild. Eg: "100 years ago, the social justice warriors won, and every dissenting opinion is now punishable by death". I don't want it to read like an MRA conspiracy/power fantasy. Do I think this developer is deft enough to walk that thin line? I don't know. Like I said, if it reviews well, I'd buy it because the concept sounds intriguing/amusing to me.
It sounds like the developer/game isn't about a dystopian society where women are in power, or a dystopia forming out of equality, rather a dystopia where hysterical extreme feminism is in power, which I admit is something that intrigues me. If I'm wrong, then the reviews will mention it and I'll just avoid it. I'm sure many of you will disagree with me, and some of you will hate me for it, but this is how I feel about this game.
This person said it more succinctly.
Regarding the bolded, If that's confirmed to be the case I'd avoid it, but I had the impression its the former.
IIRC the guy said the MC is bisexual
No it's not. The game is literally centered around the creator's beliefs of what would happen in a world where "feminism won".
He's an egalitarian, so I'm very interested in his take on this. And reading interviews about the game and his idea for it, doesn't seem like there's anything that would ruin the narrative. People just lose their shit when they see #gamergate, which he's said multiple times he regrets using.
He's an egalitarian, so I'm very interested in his take on this. And reading interviews about the game and his idea for it, doesn't seem like there's anything that would ruin the narrative. People just lose their shit when they see #gamergate, which he's said multiple times he regrets using.
He's an egalitarian, so I'm very interested in his take on this. And reading interviews about the game and his idea for it, doesn't seem like there's anything that would ruin the narrative. People just lose their shit when they see #gamergate, which he's said multiple times he regrets using.
he's said multiple times he regrets using.
I think the disconnect between me and the other posters here is that most people here look at this game targeting your everyday feminists - people who respect women and want everyone to have equal rights, which I consider myself a part of, even though I don't use that term to self-identify.
What I think this game targets, is the 'SJW' caricature of feminists - obnoxious, man-hating, #killallmen tweeting, manspreading denouncing women. Now of course, that's just a fringe element of modern feminism, but unfortunately that got amplified during twitter wars/shitslinging when GG happened.
Do I think that's a big enough issue that it's worth addressing at a large scale? No. 'Extreme' feminists are few and far between and if they act a fool like that Hula Hoop Lyft girl, they get exposed and made fun of on the internet. I do enjoy when cases of hysteria like that or the 'dreads' college girl get called out, and I would use the term SJW to refer to them unironically, so I'm different from many Gaffers in that aspect.
I'm not right-wing/alt-right. As an Indian my race is a common target of theirs. I don't think men are more/as much oppressed as women or any other bullshit MRAs believe. But I do think this could be an amusing subject to tackle as a video game, as long as it's done with a lot of subtlety. By that I mean I hope it doesn't read like it's written by a reddit/4chan manchild. Eg: "100 years ago, the social justice warriors won, and every dissenting opinion is now punishable by death". I don't want it to read like an MRA conspiracy/power fantasy. Do I think this developer is deft enough to walk that thin line? I don't know. Like I said, if it reviews well, I'd buy it because the concept sounds intriguing/amusing to me.
It sounds like the developer/game isn't about a dystopian society where women are in power, or a dystopia forming out of equality, rather a dystopia where hysterical extreme feminism is in power, which I admit is something that intrigues me. If I'm wrong, then the reviews will mention it and I'll just avoid it. I'm sure many of you will disagree with me, and some of you will hate me for it, but this is how I feel about this game.
This person said it more succinctly.
Regarding the bolded, If that's confirmed to be the case I'd avoid it, but I had the impression its the former.
You should give Rain of Reflections a look.
I used to think like this once too. When GG started, I was one of those people you'd make fun with the 'It's about ethics in game journalism' line. Most would say it was always ugly, and started on the basis of hate, and they'd be right, but I was too naive to see it that way. As a brown dude, the narrative of gamers being virginal, basement-dwelling white dudes also bothered me and I while I never was a participant, it turned me into a silent lurker on their forums like reddit.i think what you're saying is reasonable - but its being made by a man who thinks like this:
I agree that it is used so commonly now that it's lost all purpose. And it's used to refer to anyone championing for equality. For example: a friend watches a lot of 'SJWs rekt compilation' videos on youtube which are usually just clickbaity videos of rational feminists being talked down to by right wing celebrities like Shapiro or Crowder.You seem open-minded so I think it might be worth reconsidering some of your stances.
- The SJW caricature was manufactured by the alt-right/GG/MRA crowd and is used primarily against completely reasonable feminists as a way to dismiss their arguments. Don't use this term.
I'm not equating the two, I was just painting a picture of the kind of person I was referring to.- Why do you equate calling out manspreading with wanting to kill all men?
Okay. Extreme feminist is what I use instead of SJW. Can you suggest any other terms for the kind of people I'm referring to?"Hysterical extreme feminism" is probably a term you want to avoid, especially the "hysterical" part.