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[Bitmap Frogs]

It's not the same sensor; the EM5 has a Sony-fabricated sensor.

And you people dissing the retro-designed cameras in favor of the dated, black blobs that are "modern" dslrs are straight crazy.

Hahaha so true.

I love how capable my D5100 is considering the price, but that thing is butt ugly. Retro styling fad might just be a fad, but at least they are a little easy on the eyes.

King of design is the sony nex line tho... it's modern-digital-futuristic.

 

[chaostrophy]

It's good that they're releasing lenses designed for mirrorless- one of the advantages to mirrorless systems is the size of lenses can be reduced due to the shorter flange distance required. I don't think anything about compatibility with EF/EF-S lenses has been revealed yet. For me a Canon mirrorless camera that works with EF lenses without an awkward or pricy adapter would be great: I could use it with a small EF-M lens for a carry-everywhere camera, and with the big EF L lenses I already own as a second body for dedicated photo shoots. But I'm not sure if that's technically possible, and even if so this camera doesn't look like it has the control I need. I guess it's good that it isn't making me regret my E-M5 purchase...

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It's good that they're releasing lenses designed for mirrorless- one of the advantages to mirrorless systems is the size of lenses can be reduced due to the shorter flange distance required.

They'll be barely smaller going by other mirrorless APS systems. Tthat's why m43 is such a good mirrorless choice imho, not only it is the sensor slightly smaller, but being more square-ish allows for a tighter lens design. Panny's new 24-70 2.8 equivalent is half the price and half the size of nikon or canon's 24-70 2.8's

 

[Instigator]

Hey gaf-
Quick question, does anyone have any experience of the Panasonic g3 and how suitable it is for someone looking to step up from compacts?
My niece has been bugging me for a camera and ive got one reserved at the moment with 14-40mm lens at Argos for 349,99.

With the built-in EVF and the long zoom, it is definitely not as portable as a typical compact.

Why not one of the EVF-less models like the GF3 (soon to be replaced by the GF5, but can be had cheap) with perhaps a prime (like the Lumix 14mm) or the compact zoom (Lumix 14-42X)? Could be closer to your compact experience with still giving you better IQ/controls.

 

[golem]

EF-M 18-55

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_aps-c_compact.html

 

[tino]

LOL black kit lens. So you don't need to buy a $1200 NEX to get a black kit lens. I am liking it already.

 

[Thraktor]

EF-M 18-55

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_aps-c_compact.html

I really hope that's a metal build. I somewhat doubt it, but nice knurled metal focus and zoom rings would be wonderful.

 

[BlueTsunami]

LOL black kit lens. So you don't need to buy a $1200 NEX to get a black kit lens. I am liking it already.

Hahaha, yeah that was ridiculous of Sony. If anything black should have been standard.

Also how ironic would it be if its Canon that gets the size of the lenses right and actually releases a stable of strong EF-M lenses. Not that I'm even considering buying into it but I hope they release a good EVF attachment for this camera. Live View via the rear screen being the only way to work with the thing would be a huge mistake for this class of camera.

 

[giga]

18-55 pretty much confirms APS-C.

 

[RuGalz]

18-55 pretty much confirms APS-C.

Makes sense for them to go after the NEX market since that has been doing so well. I wonder if this is going to be like $600 range.

 

[tino]

Hahaha, yeah that was ridiculous of Sony. If anything black should have been standard.

Also how ironic would it be if its Canon that gets the size of the lenses right and actually releases a stable of strong EF-M lenses. Not that I'm even considering buying into it but I hope they release a good EVF attachment for this camera. Live View via the rear screen being the only way to work with the thing would be a huge mistake for this class of camera.

If its actually 1.6X instead of 1.8X, and the pancake is under $300., I can see myself jumping the NEX ship. I lost the flip screen but hey it has a hotshoe.

 

[golem]

Speedlite

 

[giga]

Wonder if I could put a 580EX on there…

 

[golem]

Wonder if I could put a 580EX on there…

The inter-system possibilities are quite intriguing... I'm curious as to whether an EF-M lens would work on an EF-S camera with some adapter perhaps

 

[Ember128]

This is already off my list. It's like a Black J1.

The best part though, is unlike the J1 it will probably have a usable GUI and if it has the G1X Sensor, clean at higher ISO.

 

[Chanser]

I wonder if this mirrorless can take EF-S or EF lenses.

 

[345triangle]

no-one's concerned about the controls? i don't see a single dial on the thing, unless that's what's surrounding the shutter button. doesn't look very accessible, though.

 

[golem]

no-one's concerned about the controls? i don't see a single dial on the thing, unless that's what's surrounding the shutter button. doesn't look very accessible, though.

I think we're going to have to accept that this is the consumer model and hope that a more prosumer model is coming down the line. Hopefully it is a good start for Canon in this area though, being as they are to bonehead moves every now and then.

 

[Instigator]

no-one's concerned about the controls? i don't see a single dial on the thing, unless that's what's surrounding the shutter button. doesn't look very accessible, though.

Said it before.

But I figured Canon, just like Nikon, wouldn't really try to make a really good mirrorless camera/system.

 

[mrkgoo]

18-55 pretty much confirms APS-C.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's a really nice focal range for a standard lens.

It's POSSIBLE that it's for a slightly smaller sensor though. Maybe the optics for an 18-55 are just really easy. But yeah, you're probably right.

I'm still hoping it will take EF/or EF-S lenses. I know people say it's stupid, but buying a camera that can take my other lenses is a plus to me, not minus. Especially the new tasty 40mm pancake

 

[tino]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's a really nice focal range for a standard lens.

It's POSSIBLE that it's for a slightly smaller sensor though. Maybe the optics for an 18-55 are just really easy. But yeah, you're probably right.

I'm still hoping it will take EF/or EF-S lenses. I know people say it's stupid, but buying a camera that can take my other lenses is a plus to me, not minus. Especially the new tasty 40mm pancake

Of course it will take EF lens with an adaptor. The EF mount is an all electric mount. Its a matter of how much is it, and how fast is the AF speed.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Anyone else here loves the cheap camera challenge from digitalrev? The newest one is pretty great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh6zr3wKRV0&list=UUuw8B6Uv0cMWtV5vbNpeH_A&index=1&feature=plcp

 

[giga]

I predict $800 for the kit.

Canon EOS M Specifications

The Canon EOS M that launches tomorrow will have the following specifications. Beyond the camera, the system will launch with 2 lenses, the EF-M 22 f/2 STM & EF-M 18-55 IS. It will also launch with a new flash, the EX 90 and an EF lens adaptor.

18mp APS-C
DIGIC V
ISO 100-12800 (25,600 Expansion)
3″ Touchscreen 1.04million pixels
Phase & Contrast AF
Video Servo AF
1920×1080 Video 30p/25p/24p
1280×720 Video 60p/50p
MPEG-4, AVC/H.264
SD Card
Adaptor at launch for EF lenses

Additional specs from [DCI]

Hand-held Twilight mode, to help with long exposures in low light.
Multi-shot noise reduction function that helps reduce the noise by combining four images.
The usual creative filters
HDR mode to synthesize three different exposures
Camera size: 66.5mm (width) 108.6mm (height) x 32.3mm (depth)
The weight (body only) 262g, (including battery and memory card) 298g

http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/07/canon-eos-m-specs/

Italian hands on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPyhM2x9gT8&feature=player_embedded

Adapter for the smaller EF-M mount

A case grip lol.

 

[Lumix]

If you have time, I would love to see both crop and FF comparisons.

Here you go.

APS-C @ f/2.8 (Canon EOS 60D)


Full Frame @ f/2.8 (Canon EOS 5D Mark III)


APS-C @ f/4.0 (Canon EOS 60D)


Full Frame @ f/4.0 (Canon EOS 5D Mark III)


APS-C @ f/5.6 (Canon EOS 60D)


Full Frame @ f/5.6 (Canon EOS 5D Mark III)


APS-C @ f/8.0 (Canon EOS 60D)


Full Frame @ f/8.0 (Canon EOS 5D Mark III)


APS-C Uncropped Individual Photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nezumiiro/sets/72157630698584722/

Full Frame Uncropped Individual Photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nezumiiro/sets/72157630698495310/

 

[BlueTsunami]

Italian hands on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPyhM2x9gT8&feature=player_embedded

Adapter for the smaller EF-M mount

A case grip lol.

The EF to EF-M adapter looks quite small. Goes to show just how short the flange distance for the EF mount was. Should at least help with reducing the length of some EF lenses when adapter it to EF-M. Also the kit zoom lens looks nice and petite. Surprised with Canon right now and more upbeat about this camera.

 

[mrkgoo]

Lumix, you are so awesome.

Makes me wish I still had my 85mm. Loved that thing.

Still, I will find a use for the 40mm. It has a much shorter mfd and wider angle means it makes for a nice indoor lens for general use. The only thin that would possibly make it more awesome is an f/2.0 aperture.

Bluetsunami: YES!!! the adaptor looks awesomely small (and glass free, I assume?). I'm so interested in this. Would be great to have a sort of mini slr for travel that is also backwards compatible shoul I ever feel the need.

People say it's crazy to put slr lenses on a small body, but they just can't imagine the possibilities. It's just more options and configurations for photography.

With an eos -m in my tool set, I can be just in point and shoot mode with a lightweight small camera. Or I can go full slr. Or I can mix and match. Or bring both and have my main slr and just a quickfire lens on the mirrorless.

Just options. I'm just lovin the idea of a mirrorless for small prime lenses.

 

[Radec]

Wow, that's a big bigger than I imagined.

When's the announcement gonna be ?

 

[BlueTsunami]

Wow, that's a big bigger than I imagined.

When's the announcement gonna be ?

Supposedly tomorrow and based on the dimensions its about the size of a GF5 (Panasonic). Just around 40mm taller but nearly the same weight, width and depth.

And not to get all dramatical but if the EF to EF-M mount is a high quality adapter that works very well with EF and EF-S lenses I could see this being a NEX killer. I mean people are pining at a 3rd party adapter that can interface with EF lenses to NEX. Canon just has to realize the button layout of this camera is NEX-3 class where baseline should have been NEX-5. Hopefully they have their own answer to the NEX-7 up their sleeve.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I could only really see this appealing to people who already own canon glass. Though I have to wonder why would people with canon glass want a camera without the ergonomics to support them?

 

[345triangle]

Supposedly tomorrow and based on the dimensions its about the size of a GF5 (Panasonic). Just around 40mm taller but nearly the same weight, width and depth.

And not to get all dramatical but if the EF to EF-M mount is a high quality adapter that works very well with EF and EF-S lenses I could see this being a NEX killer. I mean people are pining at a 3rd party adapter that can interface with EF lenses to NEX. Canon just has to realize the button layout of this camera is NEX-3 class where baseline should have been NEX-5. Hopefully they have their own answer to the NEX-7 up their sleeve.

those cameras had identical button layouts. every NEX (except the 7) has the same layout unless you count the 5n's touchscreen...

agree that this doesn't look great control-wise, though, without even a single dial. shame, because everything else about it looks very competitive.

 

[Radec]

I see, thanks.

If the adapter doesn't have any drawbacks like (reduced af speed, etc.) then it'll be a hit with all those great canon lenses.

 

[BlueTsunami]

those cameras had identical button layouts. every NEX (except the 7) has the same layout unless you count the 5n's touchscreen...

agree that this doesn't look great control-wise, though, without even a single dial. shame, because everything else about it looks very competitive.

Ahhh, that's true. I think I'm just misremembering the fact that the refreshed NEX cameras have programable buttons? I seem to remember people saying that the 5N is just easier to deal with in this regard.

I could only really see this appealing to people who already own canon glass. Though I have to wonder why would people with canon glass want a camera without the ergonomics to support them?

I'm with mrkgoo in that its great as far as being able to choose if you want to use the bulky lenses or the EF-M lenses. For those days where I want to go as small profile as possible I'd throw on the 22/2 EF-M. If I'm feeling the need to use my high quality 85/1.2II L I'm able to. All of this without the need to own two cameras. I agree on the wonky ergonomics with these front heavy lenses but I'd rather deal with it than have to own two different but almost filling the same need cameras.

 

[345triangle]

Ahhh, that's true. I think I'm just misremembering the fact that the refreshed NEX cameras have programable buttons? I seem to remember people saying that the 5N is just easier to deal with in this regard.

yeah, they didn't get anything that the older models didn't get in a firmware update, though. a NEX-3 today handles identically to an F3 as far as i'm aware.

EOS M official: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/23/3...s-a-799-99-aps-c-mirrorless-camera-competitor

 

[Antiwhippy]

Ahhh, that's true. I think I'm just misremembering the fact that the refreshed NEX cameras have programable buttons? I seem to remember people saying that the 5N is just easier to deal with in this regard.



I'm with mrkgoo in that its great as far as being able to choose if you want to use the bulky lenses or the EF-M lenses. For those days where I want to go as small profile as possible I'd throw on the 22/2 EF-M. If I'm feeling the need to use my high quality 85/1.2II L I'm able to. All of this without the need to own two cameras. I agree on the wonky ergonomics with these front heavy lenses but I'd rather deal with it than have to own two different but almost filling the same need cameras.

Hmm, yeah I can see that, but honestly now that I've moved to m43 the biggest appeal to me honestly is that you can get excellent optics at much smaller sizes.

I also knida find the idea of the EOS M with say a canon 300mm hilarious.

 

[giga]

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-m/

I predict $800 for the kit.

 

[Radec]

Interesting..

Surprised they don't offer an EVF add-on.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Sounds like the hotshoe doesn't have the ability to take an EVF. Yikes.

If I were to take a guess they'll probably use the EVF as a way to differentiate from this entry level body to a higher end one with an actual built in EVF.

 

[giga]

Went over the specs.

Bah. I continue to wait for my $1000 full frame unicorn dslr.

 

[Chanser]

That picture above looks ridiculous, but might be day one for me.

 

[Yaboosh]

Is there a beginner's guide to DSLR/Buyer's guide post buried somewhere in this thread that someone has a link to?

 

[magicstop]

Here you go.

*Tons of hard work.*

Thank you! That was super nice of you, Lumix, to go through all that work and trouble. I appreciate that, for sure. I think I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on the 40mm. The 85 is beautiful, but I think for low light, indoor shooting, the 40mm is the best cost efficient option out there right now (I'm on APS-C). It will help me capture the shots that my manual-only SMC Tak 50 miss.

 

[mrkgoo]

Ahhh, that's true. I think I'm just misremembering the fact that the refreshed NEX cameras have programable buttons? I seem to remember people saying that the 5N is just easier to deal with in this regard.



I'm with mrkgoo in that its great as far as being able to choose if you want to use the bulky lenses or the EF-M lenses. For those days where I want to go as small profile as possible I'd throw on the 22/2 EF-M. If I'm feeling the need to use my high quality 85/1.2II L I'm able to. All of this without the need to own two cameras. I agree on the wonky ergonomics with these front heavy lenses but I'd rather deal with it than have to own two different but almost filling the same need cameras.

I was kinda thinking differently. As in have both bodies, and mix and nagging whatever setup you need on the day. Like shooting professionally and need rapid control? Take your slr. Going casual? Take the eosm efm lenses. Maybe some small primes. just another tool for different purposes.

Now I don't know if I'm just looking for use cases now, but after perusing the specs, I really want one in my bag as a sort of dedicated wide prime. It's small enough to kind of just have it and then whip it out for some wide action to complement my short tele I love on my slrs. And if I feel like, I can JUST take the eos m with me.

If I'm on major travel, I might take my slr and have a standard zoom attached. And as usual have a telephoto in my bag - why not have a sensor attached to that telephoto hey maybe have it attached to my 100mm macro. I hate hiking around mountains with amazing landscapes seeing a nice bug or flower and having to swap lenses just to take that one image and swap back.

With eos m I don't have to. I have my main lens on my slr and my alternative on my eosm. Or I just bring my eos m and go point and shoot. I see the eosm as a complement to my slr over beig a replacement. But it can be a replacement at times too

And yes it will take all speedlights I think. I am excite.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

Hi.

Gah!

I *will* own one by the end of the year. I'm hoping to save up a thousand for the body by November-ish, and I'll sell my D90 and cheaper lenses to cover the cost of any new 4/3 lenses I want to start out with.

The OM-D is so freaking nice.

 

[mrkgoo]

Thank you! That was super nice of you, Lumix, to go through all that work and trouble. I appreciate that, for sure. I think I'm going to go ahead and pull the trigger on the 40mm. The 85 is beautiful, but I think for low light, indoor shooting, the 40mm is the best cost efficient option out there right now (I'm on APS-C). It will help me capture the shots that my manual-only SMC Tak 50 miss.

The 40mm is a fun solid lens. I'm having fun carrying around just that and my 7d for day to day snaps. That's why I think I will love the eos m.

 

[giga]

Hm, didn't notice but the kit lens is actually the 22mm, not the 18-55. Interesting.

The reg price of it is $250: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/883411-REG/Canon_5985b002_EF_M_22_mm_f_2.html

 

[VNZ]

The EOS-M is certainly "doing it right", compared to Nikon-1. APS-C sensor and phase detection AF would be my minimum requirement for buying into a mirrorless. What's curious is the absence of a model name/numbering scheme, though... It's really quite weird and I don't quite see how they'll smoothly branch out into more "enthusiast targeted" models and future revisions without any numbering scheme in place for this first model.

Maybe "EOS M" will always be the entry model for the series, with "EOS M mark II" etc for future updates. For more advanced models one could imagine modifications on the base name, like "EOS M Pro", "EOS M L" or whatever. Still, it's a rather unprecedented move.

Also, I would certainly hope future firmware upgrades (or "prosumer" models) will feature better focus assist modes for manual lenses. And at least one more comfortable dial for exposure compansation/aperture control.

 

[Radec]

Upon reading it's impressions and specs..

Seems like a Sony NEX-3/5N with phase detect.

 

[mrklaw]

Nex5 with customisable buttons was very usable, so I'll deserve judgement on the lack of dials for now. Lack of EVF is a bigger issue. Lets just assume this is the initial model and there will be a pro model later on - the fact that they have an EF adaptor means they expect canon system owners to buy, and many of those will demand a more controllable version

I'm curious why they didn't simply make it EF-S based though? If its APS-C, then surely EF-S lenses are already closely designed around that spec. How can EF-M be much smaller?

 

[mrkgoo]

Nex5 with customisable buttons was very usable, so I'll deserve judgement on the lack of dials for now. Lack of EVF is a bigger issue. Lets just assume this is the initial model and there will be a pro model later on - the fact that they have an EF adaptor means they expect canon system owners to buy, and many of those will demand a more controllable version

I'm curious why they didn't simply make it EF-S based though? If its APS-C, then surely EF-S lenses are already closely designed around that spec. How can EF-M be much smaller?

It's about flange distance to the sensor. EF-S stands for short back focus, and the back protrudes into the mirror box closer than full-frame lenses. The design of smaller EF-S lenses means it gets closer to the sensor, in other words. The size of the sensor doesn't even factor, other than they can reduce the image circle somewhat.

For EF-M, they are making even smaller lenses that are even closer to the sensor, I imagine where the back of and EF-M lens would be where the mirror would otherwise be.

EF-S is probably not as far back compared to EF, as EF-M is to EF-S. EF/EF-S, after all, use the same mount distance. To make it EF-S based, the mount distance would have to be pretty far from the sensor, which obviously takes away the advantage of being mirrorless.

 

[Pachterballs]

so close to buying the sony RX100 but then B+H sent me an email today about canon's mirrorless and that kinda killed my desire for the SONY. we'll see..