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[spwolf]

It's definitely not been a smooth ride there -- Nintendo disrupted them with the DS and it's clearly had an effect on their ability to reveal a competitor for 3DS with a clearly stated strategy attached in a timely manner.

I think what you suggest is quite likely -- this is a device that got put together as another stopgap while the real PSP2 continued to bake, and it'll ultimately be at most a footnote in the history of the PSP family.

SE and Sony have ability to sell 10-20 million devices per year if they introduce PSP family of products... with such volume, we can easily see why would developers stand behind them.

Honestly, I wish every post from you didnt begin and end with Nintendo.

 

[gofreak]

Well, this what all this sound to me. Of course is speculation of my part. But that' what it adds up to me.

There's always reams of speculation and rumour leading up to new products, some of it true, some false. I wouldn't judge the consistency or coherency of any company's strategy wrt such products by how consistent or coherent blogs are in their reporting of rumours...

Do you believe that this is the device we have been hearing all along when talking about the PSP2? Since that would be the alternative. or that S-E is developing this all on their own.

If we're talking about the phone, I believe it's mostly likely that this is 'a' PSP2 device. That PSP2 is a multi-device platform, and that this is one incarnation. The alternatives don't make as much sense to me. We shall see though.

 

[charlequin]

Don't confuse vague and/or conflicting rumours with Sony having development trouble or not having a clear strategy internally...

Sony's failure to get out in front of the ginormous hype for their competition with even a low-content announcement of their system is the primary reason to assume Sony's behind the eight-ball on locking down a system with a sensible strategy behind it. The inconsistency between this phone dealie and the increasing number of real-PSP2 rumors fits with, but is not the real reason for, drawing such a conclusion. (Same goes for the manifest incoherence of the platform strategy for the current PSP in recent years.)

 

[spwolf]

Well, this what all this sound to me. Of course is speculation of my part. But that' what it adds up to me.

Do you believe that this is the device we have been hearing all along when talking about the PSP2? Since that would be the alternative. or that S-E is developing this all on their own.

i cant believe that SE would go all out without full Sony backing... there is no way.
SE is just finishing their restructuring phase and they wouldnt do it alone.

It just makes sense for Sony to use custom Android as their unified platform for most of their devices (where it makes sense) - and Sony makes shit load of devices. With unified OS, it will be easier to sell content and thats what Sony is already trying to do with expansion of their digital content stores (video, music) across their full lineup of devices. Future PSN would basically serve content to over 100 million new devices per year (TVs, BD, PS3, PSP, Phones, Walkmans, PCs).

Doing separate OS for each device they release is spreading them thin software wise, thats why they unified all of these groups together.

 

[brain_stew]

i cant believe that SE would go all out without full Sony backing... there is no way.
SE is just finishing their restructuring phase and they wouldnt do it alone.

It just makes sense for Sony to use custom Android as their unified platform for most of their devices (where it makes sense) - and Sony makes shit load of devices. With unified OS, it will be easier to sell content and thats what Sony is already trying to do with expansion of their digital content stores (video, music) across their full lineup of devices. Future PSN would basically serve content to over 100 million new devices per year (TVs, BD, PS3, PSP, Phones, Walkmans, PCs).

Doing separate OS for each device they release is spreading them thin software wise, thats why they unified all of these groups together.

Its a fair point. They're already using Android in their smartphones, TVs and BD players, they're in pretty balls deep with the platform.

 

[Massa]

i still dont understand what you are trying to say here. What does it matter what some organization defines as OSD? Who really cares what fits some definition of OSD?

People think Open Source is viral, it is not... But thats the best part imho. It shouldnt be viral if it is truly open. Steve is being Steve and he is quick to forget how they copied parts of bsd to make OS X and iOS. Google is doing awesome by not restricting themselves with GPL.

I was addressing the idea that Android is not an open source project. In order to debunk that it's kind of important to keep in mind what open source is.

Being "viral" or not doesn't even enter that discussion. Personally I usually go with the GPL for the software I write, I like it's tit-for-tat approach that some people refer to as viral. But the GPL and its nature have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of whether Android is an open source project or not.

Sony can do same thing as apple. And they do not need to use everything from Android anyway. Who says they have to use same APIs for gaming? They dont. I would bet that Google is working with Sony to make it better gaming system.

If I was Sony I would copy ipod touch, ipad and iphone strategy from Apple, with more focus on gaming (hardware gpu and controls)... Google is perfect partner for that since i would guess that Sony wants to unify the platform to support media players, game devices and tablets... which is what Android aspires to become.

and I bet thats what they are doing... they are going to use modified android as platform for their future devices.

I don't have a problem with Sony making a phone, tablet and standalone handheld based on their next console platform. I think that's a great idea. It's just that an Android based platform has its advantages and disadvantages, and the idea of them using their own ecosystem is kind of throwing out the most important advantage out the window.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

I don't have a problem with Sony making a phone, tablet and standalone handheld based on their next console platform. I think that's a great idea. It's just that an Android based platform has its advantages and disadvantages, and the idea of them using their own ecosystem is kind of throwing out the most important advantage out the window.

is the central clash there a PSN vs Android Market situation?

i'm surprised i haven't heard anyone mention the cost of development yet. that was a huge complaint with PSP. assuming my theory that this is purely an android device with no playstation relation whatsoever, do you think it would be hard to get a lot of interested developers on board because it's easier to make games that don't require a lot of work being put into them? ie: 2D semonade stand games aplenty but hardly any 3D action games.

 

[charlequin]

SE and Sony have ability to sell 10-20 million devices per year if they introduce PSP family of products... with such volume, we can easily see why would developers stand behind them.

Err... I agree? I mean, my position is that Sony should launch a PSP2, that they have a good chance of success (for various chances of success) with it, and that Nintendo left them a fairly large window by overpricing and failing to hit a 2010 launch for the 3DS.

What I'm saying here is that Sony seems to be behind schedule on getting a successor out the door, and I think it's reasonable to attribute it to uncertainty on what direction to take, both due to the nature of the DS' success and the personnel changes and shifts in direction SCE has seen over recent years. If the exact future direction of the PSP brand were certain a year ago, why would Sony have kept this quiet about even the existence of a PSP successor for this long, even as the current system was languishing in the West? The PS3 wasn't ready to launch against the 360 but the nature of the system was still clear enough, and the early software coalesced enough, for Sony to make a big PR push in at E3 2005.

By far the most reasonable conclusion to me is that the final form of the product was still in flux as late as the 3DS announcement, which is why we're only now getting all these devkit leaks and still haven't heard an official announcement or acknowledgement. Does this seem like an unreasonable conclusion?

Honestly, I wish every post from you didnt begin and end with Nintendo.

If we're going to talk about Sony's future in the portable space, we're going to be talking about the new elephant in the room (Apple) and the competitor who beat them last generation (Nintendo.) I'm not going to randomly give Sony the benefit of the doubt here; I think they have an opportunity but taking advantage of it depends very much on the specifics of how they move forward.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

By far the most reasonable conclusion to me is that the final form of the product was still in flux as late as the 3DS announcement, which is why we're only now getting all these devkit leaks and still haven't heard an official announcement or acknowledgement.

do you think this leaves room for sony shoehorning 3D into the PSP2? what could they combat the 3D with if their late-to-the-party PSP successor doesn't have yet *another* thing that it's last competitor had. (ie: no touch screen on PSP, but DS had one, and now no 3D while 3DS does)

 

[Lonely1]

I don't believe that 3D is the issue at all.

 

[charlequin]

do you think this leaves room for sony shoehorning 3D into the PSP2?

It's honestly difficult for me to separate out my belief that it doesn't make sense for Sony to shoehorn in a 3D display in order to meaningfully analyze whether they will, if that makes sense.

 

[gofreak]

They talk a lot about this story in the Endgadget podcast. Lots of back-patting, of course.

They seem to row back on speculation on what 'z-system' is during the podcast, on whether it's its own games platform or not. They talk about some other things they've heard. Nothing they say is yet solid enough to run on the site, but they say they've heard 'chatter' that this is the phone version of PSP2, that this and PSP2 will play the same games. (They then seem to belatedly realise that any other scenario would be kind of stupid - duh!). Someone also more solidly confirmed to them that it's not just a internal 'what-if' prototype, that it will be going into production.

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

Sony's failure to get out in front of the ginormous hype for their competition with even a low-content announcement of their system is the primary reason to assume Sony's behind the eight-ball on locking down a system with a sensible strategy behind it. The inconsistency between this phone dealie and the increasing number of real-PSP2 rumors fits with, but is not the real reason for, drawing such a conclusion. (Same goes for the manifest incoherence of the platform strategy for the current PSP in recent years.)

It's still an assumption.

 

[Diablos]

*Thinks about the Apple buying Sony rumors*

The plot thickens.

I just might have to get this. Holding on to my shitty LG noob smartphone for a while longer.

 

[Wazzim]

They talk a lot about this story in the Endgadget podcast. Lots of back-patting, of course.

They seem to row back on speculation on what 'z-system' is during the podcast, on whether it's its own games platform or not. They talk about some other things they've heard. Nothing they say is yet solid enough to run on the site, but they say they've heard 'chatter' that this is the phone version of PSP2, that this and PSP2 will play the same games. (They then seem to belatedly realise that any other scenario would be kind of stupid - duh!). Someone also more solidly confirmed to them that it's not just a internal 'what-if' prototype, that it will be going into production.

lol It must be a proto, atleast in the design part. The endgadget one looks not like a playstation product , it should be more like the pspGo.

 

[Bert]

Ignoring PSP2 for a second, it seems Sony taking the lead on Android gaming is beneficial to both Google and Sony, it plugs a massive hole in Android and gives Sony a massive userbase to aim at. Games could be developed that run on a certain standard of phone (remember the rumours that Gingerbread or Honeycomb will require a minimum hardware spec) as well as Google TV devices.

You could then have "Premium" games that run on PSP2, and another tier for PS4 (doubt you could install Android on PS3 now). With each tier of hardware capable of running all games for the lower tiers.

The biggest hurdle would be getting consumers to understand which "PlayStation/Android" game is for which platform, although we do it now with PSP/PS3/Move/PSEye so perhaps it could work.

Obviously hardware controls cause a problem as well, so perhaps the 3 levels would be:

1) Touchscreen phone games - PS Minis/PS Touch/Whatever
2) PSP2/PSPhone/GoogleTV games
3) PS3/PS4 games

 

[gofreak]

lol It must be a proto, atleast in the design part. The endgadget one looks not like a playstation product , it should be more like the pspGo.

It's absolutely a prototype. The point they were making was that it wasn't just some visioneered 'what if' exercise, that it's a prototype for a product intended for production.

 

[gofreak]

Wow. So Sony was just a little talkative about this during their earnings call today.

Spoiler

typing it up now...

 

[gofreak]

And here you go. This could almost be new thread worthy I guess. Dunno. Lots to chew on though...

An investor dude asked

"Recently, related to games, there has been a lot of rumours on the Internet about new products relating to Playstation. There are rumours, and I would not ask you when you will be coming up with new Playstation products, but you do have a lot of product lineup. Of the game kind of devices, are you going to be basing this on computer or are you going to be utilising network. For example, Playstation 4 or PSP2, is that going to come out of Sony or maybe from Sony Ericsson? What is the future direction you are pursuing for games? Are you also contemplating something like a tablet? You do not have that product yet. Maybe Sony or Sony Ericsson - which would be the ones to come up with those kind of tablet products? You can be brief, but could you let us know what you have in mind?"

The Sony dude replied, jumping straight to the PSP bit:

As for the new PSP product, as was mentioned I know you are not asking me to tell you when we are coming up with some new product. But there is a gaming market based on the cellphones, and there are many changes that are being seen. Nintendo and ourselves in the field of the products for gamers, and there are smartphones and others. Cellphone gaming markets are very popular here in Japan, so the market itself is expanding.

It is not that we are not looking into those markets aswell, we will look into those markets as well in trying to develop a strategy for the future.

Of course, we cannot talk about specific products, but smartphones and tablets...it would be difficult to tell you how we can put games on them, but they are not going to be planned in different parts of our company. When we reorganised ourselves last April, we introduced Network Services and within that umbrella all of these products are handled. Therefore, the planning and prototypes are all carried out in this one big organisation, under one umbrella.

So we are trying to figure out what we can do as "Sony" in this market. I think this is as far as I can tell regarding these products and market. There are so many different elements, there is Sony Ericsson, then there is SCE. They [SCE] moved design and HQ to Sony City. Of course, this contributes to savings on rent for the office, but they are closer to the planning and engineering groups at Sony and I think we can better incorporate all of these capabilities.

So when the timing is right we can probably announce to you the new products that we have.

As for the tablet, this too I will not be able to tell you when and what kind of products but obviously as a mobile strategy, this occupies a very important position. On the one hand there is PC, on the other a joint venture with Ericsson on smartphones and for the game devices, and tablet falls somewhere in between. And it is true that Apple led the market but when we are to enter the market we would like to put a "Sony" character on new products and that is the area we are making efforts in right now. Therefore I think you can hope for very good products to come out.

The investor then asks if this means there's no redundancy and overlap. He answers 'correct', that simply put there won't be redundancy in their approach.

 

[Spiegel]

So PSPhone, PSTablet and PStouch confirmed.

I hope they can pull this off without making a gimped handheld console.

 

[gofreak]

The call wraps up with the guy highlighting mobile device strategy and the kind of mobile devices they can put out as a big opportunity for the next fiscal year, and a big factor in whether they'll reach the upper end of their projections or not. Sounds like it's a pretty big initiative for Sony.

 

[Suzzopher]

Surely Sony can't bankroll a PlayStation phone, a PlayStation tablet and PSP2?

 

[gofreak]

Surely Sony can't bankroll a PlayStation phone, a PlayStation tablet and PSP2?

I don't think it'll be called 'Playstation xyz'

The phone is likely to be branded in line with SE's regular branding. Of course, the Playstation branding will be there somewhere, but I think it'll be a feature of the device, not the full brand. The only primarily Playstation branded product here is likely to be SCE's device.

That subtlety aside...why not?

Sony is obviously pretty good with hardware.

Sony's big problem here was software. But they have an answer now in Google. They can make devices without worrying about having a competitive software package now. They don't have to sink a tonne of money into R&D for that.

But then of course the question is differentiation - how to make their phones and tablets stand apart from other Android powered devices. Enter their own network services, and primarily I guess, Playstation. Playstation can in theory fix one of the big weaknesses for Android relative to its competitors in a way that's exclusive to Sony's devices.

 

[H_Prestige]

Surely Sony can't bankroll a PlayStation phone, a PlayStation tablet and PSP2?

SE is making the phone.

 

[Suzzopher]

SE is making the phone.

Don't SE fall under Kaz these days?

 

[H_Prestige]

Don't SE fall under Kaz these days?

I thought they were a completely separate company.

 

[Lonely1]

I don't think it'll be called 'Playstation xyz'

The phone is likely to be branded in line with SE's regular branding. Of course, the Playstation branding will be there somewhere, but I think it'll be a feature of the device, not the full brand. The only primarily Playstation branded product here is likely to be SCE's device.

That subtlety aside...why not?

Sony is obviously pretty good with hardware.

Sony's big problem here was software. But they have an answer now in Google. They can make devices without worrying about having a competitive software package now. They don't have to sink a tonne of money into R&D for that.

But then of course the question is differentiation - how to make their phones and tablets stand apart from other Android powered devices. Enter their own network services, and primarily I guess, Playstation. Playstation can in theory fix one of the big weaknesses for Android relative to its competitors in a way that's exclusive to Sony's devices.

But all this devices will be cross-compatible? If so, I think we are done to coding to the metal.

 

[gofreak]

But all this devices will be cross-compatible?

I would imagine so...

(One thing he mentioned in his answer about redundancy was about having one user experience, one operating system...although I'm still not sure if SCE's device won't be an exception to that in terms of Android...)

If so, I think we are done to coding to the metal.

I think there'll be one specification that devs can target, from the Playstation POV of these devices. In a runtime environment that lets them get as close to that specification as they'd be used to in Playstations. I still imagine that Playstation games wouldn't simply run over Android - perhaps this is why it would be 'difficult' for the Sony guy to get into how games would be put on smartphones and tablets..

Now it might be the case that my tablet has more power than my phone, in which case the software might not take as much advantage of my tablet as it does my phone - or whatever - but that's a slightly different matter I think. What's more important is that devs would be able to hunker down on a specification or within certain parameters, whatever about how much that spec did or didn't take full advantage of various different compatible devices.

 

[xtop]

very interesting stuff from sony. i like where they're going with that. psp, phone, tablet, all doing the same thing. very cool.

the engadget snapdragon rumor still has me underwhelmed for such devices though. hopefully the overheating rumor means they're shooting for something higher

 

[RavenFox]

Thanks gofreak

 

[Panajev2001a]

So PSPhone, PSTablet and PStouch confirmed.

, and the various subdivisions seems to be working together too . It is a nice change from 90's Sony. BTW, thanks gofreak .

P.S.: regarding coding to the metal... I think we can expect something like what happens in iOS land where there is a certain layer of abstraction, but overtime they have added the ability to get things done efficiently and get closer to the HW (CADisplayLink for example). The Phone OS is the trickiest one to get right for SCE because you have many more occasions in which the handset will send you notifications (incoming calls, SMS messages, etc...).

The problem with iOS is not just that they do not allow you to have low level GPU driver access, but more importantly that they focus on both high performance HW optimized GL driver as well as HW independence so they miss on some PowerVR specific performance improvements IMHO.
Example: rather than warning developers about the dangers of flushing the pipeline and more tutorials explaining how to avoid various direct and indirect glFlush() calls... they rather waste more bandwidth and memory space storing the full high resolution back-buffer before resolve... PowerVR mentions that they can do FSAA and MSAA completely on-chip doing the resolve there while they render... Apple explained that this can create nasty visual artifacts if the developer is not careful so, to make the platform easier to program for and to avoid tying their software too much to the current GPU architecture, they decide not to take advantage of such feature AFAIK. Apple wants to be able to switch CPU and GPU vendors at any time they choose if they choose to change CPU and GPU providers.

 

[gofreak]

Some more lines to read between. Though less perhaps insightful than the earlier ones. From the US call. They were asked to touch again on the product roadmap for mobile gaming, and whether they're feeling a sense of urgency to get to market now that new competitors are springing up with non-traditional avenues to mobile gaming.

Sony Dude #1 (same blabber-mouth from the Japanese conference )

I don't think we can discuss specific products or features at this conference call. Ummm. Mobile gaming is a very important business area for us. We started out with the PSP. That was our first mobile gaming console, but since then the market, as you know, has expanded into bigger arenas - gaming on mobile phones, gaming on tablets, gaming on all sorts of mobile devices.

Now PSP, being a proprietary platform, was more concentrated on I would say core gaming segment, than the light gamer. But now we are addressing that market as well. I cannot be specific as to how we will introduce new product to address this market but one thing I can say is that we have these markets addressed and we will come out with product and services to capture the broader gaming market. I know that is not a clearcut answer, but please wait until we are ready to announce whatever product or services that we may come up with.

Sony Dude #2

In addition to our strength in the hardware, obviously we have strength around our gaming business, having our own gaming content. We have our network services, and also we have many different types of devices. Connectivity between devices certainly helps our business proposition be more interesting to the consumer. That's what we're trying to do.

 

[Lonely1]

Where did you got that quotes from Gofreak? (not that I'm doubting ).

Yes, all points toward a device like this being the real deal for Sony Corp. Perhaps even over SCE wishes and design for something more integral.

 

[gofreak]

Where did you got that quotes from Gofreak? (not that I'm doubting ).

Yes, all points toward a device like this being the real deal for Sony Corp. Perhaps even over SCE wishes.

You can listen to the Japan webcast (in English) and the overseas one from here: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/info/presen/index.html

Skip to question 2 in the Q+A in the Japanese one. The talk in the overseas call is about 5 mins from the end.

 

[brain_stew]

That really does deserve its own thread gofreak. Its all but outright confirmation that that the upcoming PSP2 and this SE phone are part of the same platform.


Now, a few things don't quite add up yet, and they mostly relate to specs. I don't believe an off the shelf midrange Qualcomm SOC is anything that SCE's engineer's would ever entertain as it simply does not offer particularly great gaming performance per watt. Its a great smartphone chip but a poor choice for a dedicated gaming device and it also puts them at great risk of widespread piracy and Qualcomm holding them to ransom once the chip is EOL. It is also doesn't match up with all the developer and source quotes that describe an immensley capable gaming device that blows away anything else on the market. Tying up all the loose ends this is the strategy that seems to make the most sense going off all the tidbits we have:


PSP2 is a single hardware platform shared between multiple devices.

There will be phone products, tablet products and a dedicated PSP2 device that are all capable of playing PSP2 games.

PSP2 is not an MSM8655 but it will appear in products utilising that chipset. Adding a Qualcomm SOC to a device that retail for $500+ is a none issue. We're talking about a $20/$30 cost at most here and it brings with it several advantages. It should deliver better general performance for a given power budget than PSP2 hardware can in general OS usage, it can be upgraded overtime which is absolutely crucial since SE doesn't want to use the same hardware in their phones forever more and it can run everything on the Android marketplace.

The PSP2 chipset is custom so that it prevents widespread piracy on Android devices and so that it can deliver a quantum leap in mobile graphics while staying at a lower power budget. Its probably something like a "mini CELL" or dual MIPS cores together with wide FPU units + an SGX543MP4 (which has been consistantly rumoured and fits the bill). There's probably a nice chunk of fast RAM on the SOC as well.

PSP2 games run in a cut down OS with minimal overhead, not Android. PSP2 devices which do come with Android (i.e. tablets and phones but not the dedicated PSP2, at lest initially) will run Android on their separate SOC and the PSP2 hardware will be completely shut down when they do this, but the device will seamlessly transition between OSes.

Battery life on the smartphone will be par for the course in Android but pretty poor when booting into PSP2 (or "X system") mode but sine mobile consumers are used to 3D games killing their batteries dead its a none issue. With die shrinks it will continue to get better.

The actual PSP2 device will have pretty decent battery life since it can pack a big ass ~2000MAH battery inside given its larger form factor and lack of secondary SOC.

All games will be sold at retail and via PSN. Some devices will not have a slot for physical games but all store bought games will include Steam style activation codes, making a retail copy good for multiple PSP2 devices. The one off online activation DRM will prevent users from selling their physical copies while keeping their online version. Sony will partner with game retailer to allow one off activation via Wifi instore if customers fo not have access to wifi at home. Since wifi is so ubiquitous now, being in most homes and being offered free in many outlets, requiring a one time online activation isn't a big issue and it will help fight piracy and used sales. We're only talking about transferring <1MB of data here, even a dialup connection will suffice.

--------

So in summary:

Sony has the market leading dedicated gaming device with better graphics than any other platform will offer for 3-4 years at least.

They can approach the massive growth markets of Android smartphones and tablets with a very unique and prestigious USP.

Piracy and second hand sales are all but killed over night.

PSP2 is guaranteed a very large userbase, making attracting developer support much easier than it could have.

It makes too much God damn sense, no individual platform is compromised, instead they're all enriched.

 

[Byakuya769]

--------

So in summary:

Sony has the market leading dedicated gaming device with better graphics than any other platform will offer for 3-4 years at least.

They can approach the massive growth markets of Android smartphones and tablets with a very unique and prestigious USP.

Piracy and second hand sales are all but killed over night.

PSP2 is guaranteed a very large userbase, making attracting developer support much easier than it could have.

YES, FULL STEAM AHEAD!!!!

It makes too much God damn sense, no individual platform is compromised, instead they're all enriched.

It does=Sony will find a way to fuck it up.

 

[brain_stew]

Surely Sony can't bankroll a PlayStation phone, a PlayStation tablet and PSP2?

They don't have to bankroll anything, these products will be sold at a healthy profit (smartphone and tablet) or at worst at break-even ($300 dedicated PSP2).

 

[jmdajr]

whatever SONy does.... I bet it doesn't come to Verizon...

 

[Byakuya769]

whatever SONy does.... I bet it doesn't come to Verizon...

Yea. I'll go wherever I have to for a psp2 phone though.

btw, thanks for translations, Gofreak.

 

[spwolf]

I was addressing the idea that Android is not an open source project. In order to debunk that it's kind of important to keep in mind what open source is.

Being "viral" or not doesn't even enter that discussion. Personally I usually go with the GPL for the software I write, I like it's tit-for-tat approach that some people refer to as viral. But the GPL and its nature have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion of whether Android is an open source project or not.



I don't have a problem with Sony making a phone, tablet and standalone handheld based on their next console platform. I think that's a great idea. It's just that an Android based platform has its advantages and disadvantages, and the idea of them using their own ecosystem is kind of throwing out the most important advantage out the window.

I wasnt saying it wasnt open source . You mistook me for some apple fanboy .

It is not an problem at all not have separate Sony store as all the devs would submit to it... it is really not an issue.

 

[spwolf]

PSP2 is a single hardware platform shared between multiple devices.

There will be phone products, tablet products and a dedicated PSP2 device that are all capable of playing PSP2 games.

....


PSP2 games run in a cut down OS with minimal overhead, not Android. PSP2 devices which do come with Android (i.e. tablets and phones but not the dedicated PSP2, at lest initially) will run Android on their separate SOC and the PSP2 hardware will be completely shut down when they do this, but the device will seamlessly transition between OSes.

there is no need at all for dual OS, and i doubt it will have it... Their Android version can cut off other apps and services that are not needed when real game is being loaded, plus with it having half a gig of ram, it is really not an issue at all.

Bigger issue is hardware access, which is why Sony's Android will have some custom api's (done by Google as part of gaming platform OR by Sony).

Think of it as Sony optimized, gaming optimized Android OS.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Interesting developments!

So Stringer finally managed to knock some sense into them?

 

[brain_stew]

Interesting developments!

So Stringer finally managed to knock some sense into them?

Sure sounds like it.

 

[SSJ1Goku]

So PSPhone, PSTablet and PStouch confirmed.

I hope they can pull this off without making a gimped handheld console.

I want a Tablet with PS Move support.

 

[AranhaHunter]

That really does deserve its own thread gofreak. Its all but outright confirmation that that the upcoming PSP2 and this SE phone are part of the same platform.


Now, a few things don't quite add up yet, and they mostly relate to specs. I don't believe an off the shelf midrange Qualcomm SOC is anything that SCE's engineer's would ever entertain as it simply does not offer particularly great gaming performance per watt. Its a great smartphone chip but a poor choice for a dedicated gaming device and it also puts them at great risk of widespread piracy and Qualcomm holding them to ransom once the chip is EOL. It is also doesn't match up with all the developer and source quotes that describe an immensley capable gaming device that blows away anything else on the market. Tying up all the loose ends this is the strategy that seems to make the most sense going off all the tidbits we have:


PSP2 is a single hardware platform shared between multiple devices.

There will be phone products, tablet products and a dedicated PSP2 device that are all capable of playing PSP2 games.

PSP2 is not an MSM8655 but it will appear in products utilising that chipset. Adding a Qualcomm SOC to a device that retail for $500+ is a none issue. We're talking about a $20/$30 cost at most here and it brings with it several advantages. It should deliver better general performance for a given power budget than PSP2 hardware can in general OS usage, it can be upgraded overtime which is absolutely crucial since SE doesn't want to use the same hardware in their phones forever more and it can run everything on the Android marketplace.

The PSP2 chipset is custom so that it prevents widespread piracy on Android devices and so that it can deliver a quantum leap in mobile graphics while staying at a lower power budget. Its probably something like a "mini CELL" or dual MIPS cores together with wide FPU units + an SGX543MP4 (which has been consistantly rumoured and fits the bill). There's probably a nice chunk of fast RAM on the SOC as well.

PSP2 games run in a cut down OS with minimal overhead, not Android. PSP2 devices which do come with Android (i.e. tablets and phones but not the dedicated PSP2, at lest initially) will run Android on their separate SOC and the PSP2 hardware will be completely shut down when they do this, but the device will seamlessly transition between OSes.

Battery life on the smartphone will be par for the course in Android but pretty poor when booting into PSP2 (or "X system") mode but sine mobile consumers are used to 3D games killing their batteries dead its a none issue. With die shrinks it will continue to get better.

The actual PSP2 device will have pretty decent battery life since it can pack a big ass ~2000MAH battery inside given its larger form factor and lack of secondary SOC.

All games will be sold at retail and via PSN. Some devices will not have a slot for physical games but all store bought games will include Steam style activation codes, making a retail copy good for multiple PSP2 devices. The one off online activation DRM will prevent users from selling their physical copies while keeping their online version. Sony will partner with game retailer to allow one off activation via Wifi instore if customers fo not have access to wifi at home. Since wifi is so ubiquitous now, being in most homes and being offered free in many outlets, requiring a one time online activation isn't a big issue and it will help fight piracy and used sales. We're only talking about transferring <1MB of data here, even a dialup connection will suffice.

--------

So in summary:

Sony has the market leading dedicated gaming device with better graphics than any other platform will offer for 3-4 years at least.

They can approach the massive growth markets of Android smartphones and tablets with a very unique and prestigious USP.

Piracy and second hand sales are all but killed over night.

PSP2 is guaranteed a very large userbase, making attracting developer support much easier than it could have.

It makes too much God damn sense, no individual platform is compromised, instead they're all enriched.

I shouldn't have read this post because now anything less will be a disappointment Do you think they can offer cross platform play between PSP2, PSTablet, PSPhone AND PS3? Of course I'm talking strictly games sold over PSN and not BD games, but imagine something like Warhawk (not necessarily that big or complex), but something that can be played on all of these devices, with and against each other? That's so full of win, of course the PS3 would have better graphics and whatnot but overall all users would get the same experience.

Interesting developments!

So Stringer finally managed to knock some sense into them?

Still a lot of work to be done in that front and with Sony overall, but Stringer seems to be turning the company around.

 

[Raistlin]

That really does deserve its own thread gofreak. Its all but outright confirmation that that the upcoming PSP2 and this SE phone are part of the same platform.


Now, a few things don't quite add up yet, and they mostly relate to specs. I don't believe an off the shelf midrange Qualcomm SOC is anything that SCE's engineer's would ever entertain as it simply does not offer particularly great gaming performance per watt. Its a great smartphone chip but a poor choice for a dedicated gaming device and it also puts them at great risk of widespread piracy and Qualcomm holding them to ransom once the chip is EOL. It is also doesn't match up with all the developer and source quotes that describe an immensley capable gaming device that blows away anything else on the market. Tying up all the loose ends this is the strategy that seems to make the most sense going off all the tidbits we have:


PSP2 is a single hardware platform shared between multiple devices.

There will be phone products, tablet products and a dedicated PSP2 device that are all capable of playing PSP2 games.

PSP2 is not an MSM8655 but it will appear in products utilising that chipset. Adding a Qualcomm SOC to a device that retail for $500+ is a none issue. We're talking about a $20/$30 cost at most here and it brings with it several advantages. It should deliver better general performance for a given power budget than PSP2 hardware can in general OS usage, it can be upgraded overtime which is absolutely crucial since SE doesn't want to use the same hardware in their phones forever more and it can run everything on the Android marketplace.

The PSP2 chipset is custom so that it prevents widespread piracy on Android devices and so that it can deliver a quantum leap in mobile graphics while staying at a lower power budget. Its probably something like a "mini CELL" or dual MIPS cores together with wide FPU units + an SGX543MP4 (which has been consistantly rumoured and fits the bill). There's probably a nice chunk of fast RAM on the SOC as well.

PSP2 games run in a cut down OS with minimal overhead, not Android. PSP2 devices which do come with Android (i.e. tablets and phones but not the dedicated PSP2, at lest initially) will run Android on their separate SOC and the PSP2 hardware will be completely shut down when they do this, but the device will seamlessly transition between OSes.

Battery life on the smartphone will be par for the course in Android but pretty poor when booting into PSP2 (or "X system") mode but sine mobile consumers are used to 3D games killing their batteries dead its a none issue. With die shrinks it will continue to get better.

The actual PSP2 device will have pretty decent battery life since it can pack a big ass ~2000MAH battery inside given its larger form factor and lack of secondary SOC.

All games will be sold at retail and via PSN. Some devices will not have a slot for physical games but all store bought games will include Steam style activation codes, making a retail copy good for multiple PSP2 devices. The one off online activation DRM will prevent users from selling their physical copies while keeping their online version. Sony will partner with game retailer to allow one off activation via Wifi instore if customers fo not have access to wifi at home. Since wifi is so ubiquitous now, being in most homes and being offered free in many outlets, requiring a one time online activation isn't a big issue and it will help fight piracy and used sales. We're only talking about transferring <1MB of data here, even a dialup connection will suffice.

--------

So in summary:

Sony has the market leading dedicated gaming device with better graphics than any other platform will offer for 3-4 years at least.

They can approach the massive growth markets of Android smartphones and tablets with a very unique and prestigious USP.

Piracy and second hand sales are all but killed over night.

PSP2 is guaranteed a very large userbase, making attracting developer support much easier than it could have.

It makes too much God damn sense, no individual platform is compromised, instead they're all enriched.

Overall, that's what I came back with having read the interviews.

Sounds like there will probably be two pieces of HW on the devices, one to run games and one to run the Android functions. Similarly, two OS's. Makes sense.

 

[Byakuya769]

Overall, that's what I came back with having read the interviews.

Sounds like there will probably be two pieces of HW on the devices, one to run games and one to run the Android functions. Similarly, two OS's. Makes sense.

Raistlin, gofreak, and Byakuya769 vindicated?

 

[brain_stew]

Raistlin, gofreak, and Byakuya769 vindicated?

Nevermind.

 

[YourMaster]

I don't own a psp, my DS eats up all my playtime and the psp has little that interests me, but I need a phone anyway and it is sure to have some nice games.

I will get this when:
- It's almost as good a phone as my nokia 1100 (like, you know, call people)
- It has a battery live of at least 5 days on standby
- Cost at most 150/200€
- 40€ games at most

 

[brain_stew]

I shouldn't have read this post because now anything less will be a disappointment Do you think they can offer cross platform play between PSP2, PSTablet, PSPhone AND PS3? Of course I'm talking strictly games sold over PSN and not BD games, but imagine something like Warhawk (not necessarily that big or complex), but something that can be played on all of these devices, with and against each other? That's so full of win, of course the PS3 would have better graphics and whatnot but overall all users would get the same experience.

Any game that targets the generic "PSP2 platform" will work cross platform (i.e. on the dedicated PSP2, smartphones and tablets, maybe even BD players and HDTVs) by default. Its the same hardware and same code just a different form factor.

As for adding PS3 support to the mix, well, of course its possible but it would require extra work and a different codepath. If the PSP2 really is based on a "mini" CELL + SGX543MP2 though, well it shouldn't be too much work, really, but don't expect it to be the norm.