Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
But then you have Smogon throwing in their shitty Fakemon with nonsensical movesets, such as the little Electric/Water krill that learns Earthquake.
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The Pokémon Company speaks out against cheating
- Thread starter JoeM86
- Start date
But then you have Smogon throwing in their shitty Fakemon with nonsensical movesets, such as the little Electric/Water krill that learns Earthquake.
Two Pikachus
Member
It's not at all that an MMO couldn't work. It most definitely could. It's that Nintendo is far too stubborn to do it.
And why do the thing everyone wants all at once when you can make incremental changes and the fanbase will still eat it up? X&Y finally drags the franchise kicking and screaming into 2001.
And why do the thing everyone wants all at once when you can make incremental changes and the fanbase will still eat it up? X&Y finally drags the franchise kicking and screaming into 2001.
Only if you play that particular shitty format. You can't run into them if you play one of the normal formats.
Anyway, I guess I'll throw in my opinion on the subject of IVs and EVs. I think they should both be kept for in-game purposes (not every human is perfect, either), but give players the option to manually tweak them for competitive multiplayer. Game Freak'll never do that, but a man can dream...
I hope the RNG is figured out quickly again so I don't have to spend dozens of hours on a team. Without a working emulator, it's not going to happen, though...
That's not even why it's bad.
Wichu's right though, said FAKE Pokemon are only usable in one format (out of like 10 formats?)
Well, you're all over the place here
1. I agree some of the wireless features could go online, but they, like the rest of Nintendo, want to promote local play above all else. Local play is key to Nintendo's strategies, as you can see by their games, and Pokémon fields into this.
2. Mystery Gift automatically unlocked a lot of the time when at event. In addition to that, at events, they gave you the details for when it didn't
3. When Random Matchups came into the games, there were no Battle Frontier modes inside the game. They stated at E3 that within XY, there will be multiple rulesets with which you can battle online, afterall.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
In those GC games it's still usually considered more of a "side game" as they still function as the stadium series.
NightAntilli
Banned
People who want to get to the best results, usually have to go through a huge list of chores before being able to get the pokemon one wants.. Basically, if you want a specific Pokemon , you'll have to take into account:
- Move set, which means you're probably gonna be cross-breeding multiple times
- IVs, which means you'll have to hatch a gazillion eggs before you get the IVs you want
- Gender, which means that if you want the above two with a specific gender you'll have to probably breed and hatch twice as much
- EVs, which means that after all that breeding and hatching, you'll have to find specific pokemon to grind on for hours on end.
- Leveling, which means that to let your Pokemon reach lvl 100, you'll have to grind even more, or find some way to get a bunch of rare candies to level your pokemon faster.
And that's leaving stuff out like happiness so it can evolve and so on. Instead of doing all this, you can have an almost-legal pokemon you want in like half an hour by 'hacking'. If the above was fun, people probably wouldn't be hacking. It's too much time for too little.
- Move set, which means you're probably gonna be cross-breeding multiple times
- IVs, which means you'll have to hatch a gazillion eggs before you get the IVs you want
- Gender, which means that if you want the above two with a specific gender you'll have to probably breed and hatch twice as much
- EVs, which means that after all that breeding and hatching, you'll have to find specific pokemon to grind on for hours on end.
- Leveling, which means that to let your Pokemon reach lvl 100, you'll have to grind even more, or find some way to get a bunch of rare candies to level your pokemon faster.
And that's leaving stuff out like happiness so it can evolve and so on. Instead of doing all this, you can have an almost-legal pokemon you want in like half an hour by 'hacking'. If the above was fun, people probably wouldn't be hacking. It's too much time for too little.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
The only thing that is terrible to do there is IVs really.
Reaching max EV is only 20 mins and less if you have items or Join Avenue. Leveling is easily maxed with various rematches/battles that reward hefty EXP, along with items. Chain-breeding is not tedious at all since it's very simple. Happiness is also easy to max out especially if you do it along with leveling up or EV training.
Really, you're overblowing a lot of things when the only true evil is IVs, or you didn't play Gen 5.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Uh... in terms of actual aesthetic design most of their fakemon are pretty good. The movesets of the "middle" grouping are borked, but most of the earlier designs (pre-Colossoil) and later designs (post-Tomahawk) are actually quite restrained. You also don't have to worry about any of them if you avoid the server that hosts them, which is what 95% of people do. They're a piece of fun on the side for those who want to mix things up, to pretend they're some major obstacle that you can't get around is stupid.
Also Wooper learns Focus Punch, so having a shrimp that can use Earthquake is hardly egregious.
ColtraineGF
Member
For this, and other people's complaints, it's important to consider them in light of methods established in the *latest games* first.
To the first point, yes, a Pokemon's movepool is vast. However, usually you're only considering the most powerful/useful moves, which means (in terms of when they learn 'em moves that show up at later levels. If you need to use TMs, they're infinite now so no need to have complex breed chains to teach Earthquake.
As for IVs, there are several things to consider - the fact that IV passing is more straightforward in G5 (3 IVs from each parent), the fact that Power items can pass down specific IVs that you want, the fact that it's possible to obtain Ditto with perfect IVs in single stats by investing time into catching them (1/6 chance) or asking someone for one, and so on. There's also the fact that usually, you'd only need to put effort into 1 or 2 IVs for most teams (you don't need to look at Special Attack for Machamp, for instance). Time investment goes down over time as more systems are provided to expedite certain steps.
Gender is not as important as other things in competitive land.
EV training is the easiest part of the whole thing, especially with Join Avenue, vitamins, Pokerus, and Power items. It definitely isn't an intensive process; any guide could tell you that.
Leveling... In BW/2, after doing EV training, you can simply fight against late game level 50/60 Audino a few times. The game throws a Lucky Egg at you early on, and with experience scaling you can literally shoot up 25-30 levels in your first fight, and be gaining levels every fight afterwards. It's definitely not as hard as it was in G4 and prior.
Happiness only really matters if you plan on using Return. Otherwise, it isn't even worthy of major consideration.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
1. The ironic part about this is that the local play tends to deprive and exclude people from sometimes key features of the game. I get that they're trying to reward people for going local to some extent, but lots of people around the world don't have easy access to it.
2. Still no reason to put that barrier there in the first place, it's completely arbitrary and the games have had other really arcane methods of accessing cool content like the passcode thing to get new box wallpaper in HG/SS: http://www.filb.de/games/tools/aikotoba
It's cool in a sense that the game has stuff in it that's not easily discovered, but Gamefreak tends to go overboard sometimes with stuff that almost no player will ever see, such as the Mirage Island. The shiny Pokémon on the other hand hit that sweet spot of being really rare, but unique at the same time and I do love they've done stuff that let's you increase your odds somewhat.
3. This is part of the overarching complaint that they often give us features that are really welcome or hint at stuff that could be awesome if they made if they went just a bit farther. Examples of this being Battle Tower/Frontier disappearing every other game so they can put it in the iteration. Giving you online play, but not really. It's weird they were one of the first devs to actually implement some online gaming in the Japanese version of Pokemon Frontier. Then there's stuff like the GTS, which could very easily be improved to discourage the cheating they're referring to in this thread.
Get some decent filters, only allow Pokemon that are actually possible to exist to be traded, and if an event Pokemon contradicts that, update your filter. A lot of stuff could be done to improve the GTS, and BW did address some of it by letting you barter, but again it was very much a case of an "almost" really functional feature, because it didn't allow you to straight up communicate with people about what you really wanted. The emoticon system did not offer much flexibility.
You say XY seeks to address the bare-bones online with more flexible rulesets, but it's really a damn shame it has taken them 3 generations to get it right then. I realize I'm a bit all over the place with this, but this is mostly just a summation of what I haven't liked about the series, which could be summed up as: A lot of times they've introduced some nifty stuff or things that had the potential to be really good, only to either not go far enough or reserve those features for a very select audience, contradicting their overall intention of being a very inclusionary franchise.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
This, pretty much. I love the series to bits and have purchased every generation, but damn if it isn't held down by some frankly archaic systems at times. It really needs a clean break in the vein of Gen II -> Gen III where the developers can just sit down and design more modern and functional systems from the ground up.
Firstly, i don't know the first thing about competitive pokemon.
However i wonder why all the randomness is considered a good thing for competitive play. In my experience, the more random your game, the shittier it is for actual competition (leaving aside the RNG for a particular attack).
Why not simply make the game balanced and the actual raising of a competitive team easy, so people quickly get to the actually interesting part: developping a strategy, experimenting with different teams through an evolving metagame.
If everyone is doing the same thing, patch imbalances, introduce more depth into the game instead of making the act of assembling a team a chore.
But maybe this is not something the community wants and i'm completely off base.
However i wonder why all the randomness is considered a good thing for competitive play. In my experience, the more random your game, the shittier it is for actual competition (leaving aside the RNG for a particular attack).
Why not simply make the game balanced and the actual raising of a competitive team easy, so people quickly get to the actually interesting part: developping a strategy, experimenting with different teams through an evolving metagame.
If everyone is doing the same thing, patch imbalances, introduce more depth into the game instead of making the act of assembling a team a chore.
But maybe this is not something the community wants and i'm completely off base.
Winterfang
Banned
Would this be acceptable behavior in let's say World of Warcraft? You just hack your max lvl character with every perk and whatever tough and rare loot you want, because God forbid you spend some time in an RPG.
Different situations, and not entirely comparable as far as I know (I have barely touched WoW).
Competitive Pokemon players don't really treat the game much like an RPG, but more like a turn based fighting game or something. It's purely about the 1v1 battles with Pokemon already at the best they can be, nothing more. It's not about grinding out fancy loot and extra levels.
Imagine a tag team fighting game where you "catch" fighters (maybe you go scouting for talent and sign up fighters to your gym or something). Before we start, there are no "levels" or anything to grind. First of all you have their DNA, which is decided by an RNG that mostly hates you, making it very hard to get a good natural fighter. Then you need to spend a solid week training these guys up, taking them to the gym or putting them out on the track, and bringing them back into the gym to teach them punches and kicks and whatever suits their fighting style. If you are a competitive fighting game player, this entire process would drain you because you just want to practice your fighting skills.
Not to mention that if your fighters don't work well as a team in the end you are going to have a tonne of extra work to do to improve things.
That's kind of what competitive Pokemon is like. It's why simulators are so popular and why people cheat to save time. They want to get their team up to the standard everyone else is playing at as quick as possible so they can resume their battling.
I feel like there are a lot of people in this thread who just do not understand how competitive Pokemon battles work. They do not function the same way as battles in single player where how well you do is determined by how hard you've trained a Pokemon and which side has the higher stats.
In a PvP battle everyone's Pokemon has already reached its maximum potential and each player starts on a level playing field. Winning is determined by factors like what strategies you use in battle, how well your Pokemon work with each other to cover weaknesses and so forth. When someone hacks or exploits the RNG to get a Pokemon with good IV's they are by no means guaranteeing themselves a win. They still have to learn proper strategies and practices at battling or they will be just as easily defeated as someone using a team that hasn't been EV trained.
From what I've read in this thread, a lot of people think the competition aspect comes from how much time you are willing to grind a Pokemon and that you can just "cheat to win" with the RNG or DNS exploits but that really isn't true. Grinding is not what the game is about, it is just the one step that gets in the way of actually being able to play the game.
In a PvP battle everyone's Pokemon has already reached its maximum potential and each player starts on a level playing field. Winning is determined by factors like what strategies you use in battle, how well your Pokemon work with each other to cover weaknesses and so forth. When someone hacks or exploits the RNG to get a Pokemon with good IV's they are by no means guaranteeing themselves a win. They still have to learn proper strategies and practices at battling or they will be just as easily defeated as someone using a team that hasn't been EV trained.
From what I've read in this thread, a lot of people think the competition aspect comes from how much time you are willing to grind a Pokemon and that you can just "cheat to win" with the RNG or DNS exploits but that really isn't true. Grinding is not what the game is about, it is just the one step that gets in the way of actually being able to play the game.
back when I played competitively I had hacked dittos of most natures with perfect ivs. sped up the breeding process by a ton. this was back in diamond and pearl.
haven't played competitively in years due to its obnoxious immature fanbase and what not. not because of the hacking. I had a bunch of online friends who is routinely battle anyway and we all hacked around the same amount.
Also smogon started banning to many pokemon and strategies. made everything to stifled.
haven't played competitively in years due to its obnoxious immature fanbase and what not. not because of the hacking. I had a bunch of online friends who is routinely battle anyway and we all hacked around the same amount.
Also smogon started banning to many pokemon and strategies. made everything to stifled.
This is one of the reasons I actually loved Gen 5 so much. With proper online battling in Gen 5 games (still had a few flaws but was great overall) I could finally ditch all the shitty stuff if I wanted to fight online and just cut straight to the action. Also it meant I wasn't restricted to just singles or doubles (since competitive singles is ZZZzzz and I don't like doubles in general).
I played probably close to 1000 matches online on Black and did every single one of them in triple battles or rotation battles, was a lot more fun of an experience than any sort of strict competitive meta game crap you would see in things like Shoddy Battle where half the people you fight are using the same boring predictable team that isn't even that hard to counter.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
It's very a odd feeling watching many in this thread advocating in rhetoric what ate MMOs from the inside out when put in practice years ago. Same arguments, same ideas, same problems, same strawman "victims", same goals, same reasoning, and, I might add, the same results if implemented.
It gives me an idea for a thread, but it's a bit too raw yet.
It gives me an idea for a thread, but it's a bit too raw yet.
Vidya4chan
Banned
wait what happened with you and pokemon lawyers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokémon_(video_game_series)
Man, where to start playing Pokemon? Which ones to get?
So, couldn't they simply add a multiplayer mode like how PvP works in Guild Wars 2, where your character is max level? As in, they could let people choose max level Pokemon and assign the stats and skills they'd otherwise get from grinding however they like. Like an arena mode or something. I'm not familiar with Pokemon.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
I would love that, and yes that is feasible. It's basically what the battle simulators online do.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Doesn't Game Freak pretty much design every Pokemon game from the ground-up again completely ignoring the previous generations' assets and recreating everything for the new generation games?
It seems like it would be fairly easy for them to really think about how to "reboot" the Pokemon games into a more modern game series. I mean, the Pokemon games are gold and if they would just update them they would sell even more most likely. The Pokemon games are really the only games that I can think of where players are enticed to buy both versions of the same game.
What strategies?
Also, that's a misconception. Smogon could is actually incredibly anti-ban.
The only big one I can think of is the swift swim + drizzle combination. A ban that was honestly mostly deserved.
Then again, I have been away from the competitive scene since just before B2W2 come out.
entremet
Member
Did they ban drought and chlorophyll too?
Professor Beef
Banned
banned garchomp
banned salamence
banned drizzle + swift swim
oh yeah, "anti-ban" totally
fuck smogon
1. Basically changing your console's DNS settings to connect to your own virtual server, or the one this app makes, in order for it to access the GTS and give you the Pokémon as if you deposited
2. I believe they're doing so
3. Not retroactively, no
Basically, they are hidden values which aid on the stat growth of Pokémon. In each stat, a Pokémon has an IV of 0-31. Each IV point equates to 1 stat point at Level 100. These cannot be changed once you hatch/catch a Pokémon. EVs, however, are more trainable. You gain EVs by battling Pokémon, with each species giving a certain amount. You can have up to 510 EVs on your Pokémon, with a maximum of 255 in any stat. For every four EVs you gain in a stat, it equates to one stat point at Level 100 meaning the boost could be up to 63.
Basically, ignore these if you don't intend to become ultra competitive. I'm a fairly competitive battler and I don't obsess over them, and I still win the majority of my battles
THAT'S AWESOME hahaha
They made the game too breakable. Maybe the 3DS version will be patch-able in case something like this happens again.
Not quite. There's a lot of asset reuse - however, there's enough redone/new stuff that people don't notice. For example:
Donphan in Ruby/Sapphire/FireRed/LeafGreen/Emerald:
Donphan in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum:
Donphan in HeartGold/SoulSilver:
Donphan in Black/White/B2/W2:
Sometimes they're happy with just minor tweaks (ears/face in the first case, palette in the second).
I'm not sure what you mean by rebooting - Black/White were already a sort of reboot. I think Pokémon is fine with incremental updates rather than a drastic reboot.
X/Y for 3DS in October! Might as well start with the most modern versions, then play the older ones if you like them. HeartGold/SoulSilver are the best 'classic' Pokémon games, being full remakes of Gold/Silver for the Game Boy, so they're also worth playing.
ColtraineGF
Member
In terms of asset reuse, XY is definitely going to be the biggest one in terms of actual new assets, with the ground work for making new models for all 649+ Pokemon (and not just reusing Stadium models again).
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Eh, "Drizzle + Swift Swim" was a compromise to avoid banning even more stuff. Permanent rain and swift swim was broken as fuck, especially Kingdra; I mean it just wasn't functional at all. Something had to be banned there, and I say that as someone who is normally pretty staunchly liberal about banlists. The choice wpuld have been either "ban Swift Swim", or "ban Drizzle"; but both of those would have hit Pokemon that aren't broken by a single one of those alone (i.e.; Politoed sucks without Drizzle and isn't really broken with it, just allows others to become broken). The complex ban of "Drizzle + Swift Swim" was probably the best way of solving this.
Prior to this, and I think for good reasons as well, when deciding bans a great deal of effort was put towards avoiding "complex" or two-part bans (i.e.; x is banned in the presence of y but allowed otherwise) because after a while it has the danger of becoming extremely arbitrary (i.e.; should we allow level 78 Dialgas to compete in the OU tier, because at level 78 Dialga's stats are not out of line with the rest of OU?), but I think there are some cases that are clear enough that it should be done. I think Garchomp is probably an example of this. What tipped Garchomp over the edge was Sand Veil, really. Garchomp in the absence of Sand Veil is scary but manageable. But yeah, at the time Garchomp was banned the notion of a complex ban was taboo as mentioned for the reason above, and I do think there was a fairly strong argument for taking action over Garchomp. At the time, I was against the ban, but Garchomp was definitely a borderline case and there were strong arguments both ways. If the option had been the complex ban of "Garchomp + Sand Veil", I'd have been in favour of that, if not an outright ban.
I can't defend Salamence, that really was silly. Mind you, the decision-making process for how tiers work has changed a lot since then, and for good reasons, so hopefully a ban as egregious as that won't happen again.
I think one of the reasons that the banlist for Pokemon has become a bit... warped in recent years is because there isn't really any metagame of comparable complexity. I mean, to look at two alternate systems, fighting games are much simpler in terms of figuring out the bans. A character is either broken, or they aren't. There are very few fighters where movesets are customizable so that a particular fighter with a particular move might be a breaker but the same fighter with a different move might not. Similarly, in card games, a card will generally have 1 or 2 effects. Pokemon can have hundreds of different "effects" so to speak, which makes judging which factor it is that leads to something being unbalanced very difficult. Up until DPPt, I'd say Pokemon banlists could still work on a "simple" basis, but from DPPt onwards, whether a Pokemon is broken or not is no longer really a binary proposition, because there are so many factors which interplay. Inevitably, that's going to lead to a rise in complex bans, hopefully for the better, but with complex bans it's much more difficult to be "right" - instead of two options (banned or not banned), you now have an almost infinite amount of permutations.
All of which were completely justified. Garchomp and Salamence were stupidly overpowered in D/P (they're legal in B/W) and Swift Swim + Drizzle makes the game unplayable. It seems like you're reacting negatively to the concept of banning in general instead of actually providing a legitimate point as to why these bans were unjustified.
But yeah, fuck an entire community of people for banning Pokemon in a make-believe format.
PS: I have nothing but respect for you if you actually manage to play this game at a competitive level.
PPS: Ew don't listen to Theorymon, he's a hoser!
No he's actually a great guy
For all of you people who hate Smogon bans, you could be like me, and stick to metagames that have totally stable banlists. Aka, Ubers (the metagame that doesn't ban Pokemon at all), and VGC (the official Nintendo metagame). Smogon isn't just the standard OU!
Anyways, for in cart stuff, IVs are certainly the big problem here. The other grindy stuff is something that can be done fairly easy, and Natures are something you can immeditly see. IVs on the other hand, require shit like rare candying babies to see if they have good stats or not. And in the worst case, if you play Ubers a lot like me, you'd have to soft reset for stuff like Mewtwo, and if the stats aren't good, you have to catch the fucker again. This is a really huge problem. It's really stupid when you catch / hatch a Pokemon, but have to try again because the RNG decided to be a bitch, and give you a piece of garbage. This even sorta goes against the spirit of the game. Remember how the games are always like "FRIENDSHIP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF POKEMON!"? Well according to game mechanics, that's total horse shit. In reality, its about hoping the RNG gods give you what you want, or manipulating the RNG to your desires. I know someone is going to mention breeding too, but that's still an annoying grind that involves going through a bunch of Pokemon to "get the right stats". And in a game of min maxing like Pokemon, these stats tend to really matter!
Oh, one special evil needs to be mentioned about IVs: Hidden Power. A lot of Pokemon who have poor special movepools really need a good Hidden Power to help coverage wise... BUT GUESS WHAT, Hidden Power's typing and Base Power is dictated by how your IV spread is. So in order to get a good Hidden Power, now you need a SPECIFIC spread of IVs instead of just good ones. This is a real kick in the balls, because this is pure hell to grind for...
I think a good solution to this would be for X & Y to add some sort of way to moddify a Pokemon's IVs. Either via vitamins, minigames, or whatever. Just getting rid of the awfulness of IVs makes competitive Pokemon a gazillion times more accessible, which is a huge plus in my book, because I find competitive battling to be the most fun part of Pokemon!
This is another pretty good solution. This way, people who REALLY care about fake genetic diversity for some reason get their wish, while competitive Pokemon is still a lot more accessible!
Anyways, for in cart stuff, IVs are certainly the big problem here. The other grindy stuff is something that can be done fairly easy, and Natures are something you can immeditly see. IVs on the other hand, require shit like rare candying babies to see if they have good stats or not. And in the worst case, if you play Ubers a lot like me, you'd have to soft reset for stuff like Mewtwo, and if the stats aren't good, you have to catch the fucker again. This is a really huge problem. It's really stupid when you catch / hatch a Pokemon, but have to try again because the RNG decided to be a bitch, and give you a piece of garbage. This even sorta goes against the spirit of the game. Remember how the games are always like "FRIENDSHIP IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF POKEMON!"? Well according to game mechanics, that's total horse shit. In reality, its about hoping the RNG gods give you what you want, or manipulating the RNG to your desires. I know someone is going to mention breeding too, but that's still an annoying grind that involves going through a bunch of Pokemon to "get the right stats". And in a game of min maxing like Pokemon, these stats tend to really matter!
Oh, one special evil needs to be mentioned about IVs: Hidden Power. A lot of Pokemon who have poor special movepools really need a good Hidden Power to help coverage wise... BUT GUESS WHAT, Hidden Power's typing and Base Power is dictated by how your IV spread is. So in order to get a good Hidden Power, now you need a SPECIFIC spread of IVs instead of just good ones. This is a real kick in the balls, because this is pure hell to grind for...
I think a good solution to this would be for X & Y to add some sort of way to moddify a Pokemon's IVs. Either via vitamins, minigames, or whatever. Just getting rid of the awfulness of IVs makes competitive Pokemon a gazillion times more accessible, which is a huge plus in my book, because I find competitive battling to be the most fun part of Pokemon!
This is another pretty good solution. This way, people who REALLY care about fake genetic diversity for some reason get their wish, while competitive Pokemon is still a lot more accessible!
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
I actually assumed that Game Freak just reused a lot of assets for the new game (when dealing with new Pokemon) but I remember an article posted here in another topic that stated that Game Freak pretty much made each Pokemon game from scratch. I could have read it wrong, but it was really interesting, surprising, and perhaps a bit inefficient.
I love the Pokemon games and Black/White was sort of a reboot so I shouldn't have really said "reboot" but I just meant a reboot in a mechanics sense. Also, as cheating was mentioned, creating remakes (or a new Pokemon game that features most of the previous Pokemon) from previous games that prevented cheating by restricting trades from the past games could solve that which is the other reason I mentioned reboot. I'm really not sure how that would go over with the fans though. I personally wouldn't mind it, but that's also because I only recently got back into Pokemon with Diamond/Pearl. The last Pokemon games I played before that were probably the second generation.
computers putin'
Member
question, is there any way to tell apart hacked pokemon from legit pokemon?
Sigismundo
Member
I'm gonna have to throw my hat in favour of Pokémon eugenics as well. Who knows, it might make more people play competitively on carts.
EDIT: Honestly, if you want to go through the entire process of breeding/grinding/etc, cool. Just stop shitting on people that don't want to and just want to fight people.
EDIT: Honestly, if you want to go through the entire process of breeding/grinding/etc, cool. Just stop shitting on people that don't want to and just want to fight people.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Not if they're hacked sufficiently well.
Professor Beef
Banned
I've never seen an argument in favor of banning what I've mentioned aside from Garchomp. Not a good or convincing one, anyways. So forgive me if I don't care about Smogon anymore if they can't bring up an actual argument to back up their asinine bans. I've already long since left Smogon and their awful formats so it's of little consequence.
Sigismundo
Member
Assuming that there are any Fairy-types worth using.
(Azumarill is guaranteed to be worth using)
entremet
Member
Event Pokes are the most annoying to me.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
You don't see the logic behind banning Drizzle + Swift Swim? A Modest LifeOrb Kingdra with 0/0/0/252/0/252 has 538 speed and 318 Sp.Atk, and has a Surf with a 1.5x STAB modifier, 1.3x Life Orb modifier, and a 1.5x Rain modifier. Oh, you resist Water? That's fine, because Kingdra can use Draco Meteor with 140 base power and only resisted by Steel types. Really early B/W used to simply revolve around who could get their Kingdra or occasionally Kabutops out first, it was absolutely horrific and not fun to play at all. It's not like you could even just ban Kingdra to sort things out, Kingdra was just the most obvious offender. Anything with Swift Swim just became totally unmanageable.
ColtraineGF
Member
To be clear, I think that it should be specified exactly what "banning" means for those who don't know.
The idea behind making tiers is to allow a wider variety of Pokemon to fight than would normally be possible. To do so, Pokemon are organized into groups. Every tier acts as a banlist for the tiers under it. So, with the following example tiers:
Ubers
OU (Overused)
UU (Underused)
NU (Never Used)
Any Pokemon in the Ubers group can't play in OU, UU, and NU, any Pokemon in OU can't play in UU or NU, and so on. The topmost tier ends up being where anything goes in terms of team construction. The reasons for banning a Pokemon (kicking them up a tier) are:
1. They're deliberately powerful. In a JRPG like Pokemon, there are certain Pokemon who are meant to be "boss-like". The Mewtwos of the world wreck stuff usually, so they get kicked upstairs.
2. They centralize the game too much. When it gets to a point where a Pokemon/tactic is either used on almost every team because of it's obvious goodness, and where other teams have to carry a counter to that strategy in response, then up it goes.
3. They carry "broken" tactics. For example, trapping a Pokemon with Shadow Tag, and then using Encore to force it to use a certain move and either using Counter or Mirror Coat to perfectly wear down their HP, or using the opportunity to make a free switch in to gain a turn to setup.
That's the general intent behind the usage of tiers/bans, I believe.
The idea behind making tiers is to allow a wider variety of Pokemon to fight than would normally be possible. To do so, Pokemon are organized into groups. Every tier acts as a banlist for the tiers under it. So, with the following example tiers:
Ubers
OU (Overused)
UU (Underused)
NU (Never Used)
Any Pokemon in the Ubers group can't play in OU, UU, and NU, any Pokemon in OU can't play in UU or NU, and so on. The topmost tier ends up being where anything goes in terms of team construction. The reasons for banning a Pokemon (kicking them up a tier) are:
1. They're deliberately powerful. In a JRPG like Pokemon, there are certain Pokemon who are meant to be "boss-like". The Mewtwos of the world wreck stuff usually, so they get kicked upstairs.
2. They centralize the game too much. When it gets to a point where a Pokemon/tactic is either used on almost every team because of it's obvious goodness, and where other teams have to carry a counter to that strategy in response, then up it goes.
3. They carry "broken" tactics. For example, trapping a Pokemon with Shadow Tag, and then using Encore to force it to use a certain move and either using Counter or Mirror Coat to perfectly wear down their HP, or using the opportunity to make a free switch in to gain a turn to setup.
That's the general intent behind the usage of tiers/bans, I believe.