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The Prequels Strike Back - documentary defending the Star Wars prequels

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Anakin: You are so…beautiful.
Padme: It’s only because I’m so in love.
Anakin: No. No, it’s because I’m so in love with you.
Padme: Then love has blinded you?
Anakin: Well…that’s not exactly what I meant.
Padme: But it’s probably true.

*soul floats away from body to escape the cringe*
 
Anakin: You are so…beautiful.
Padme: It’s only because I’m so in love.
Anakin: No. No, it’s because I’m so in love with you.
Padme: Then love has blinded you?
Anakin: Well…that’s not exactly what I meant.
Padme: But it’s probably true.

*soul floats away from body to escape the cringe*

78517-Lando-Calrissian-cringe-gif-Bi-INvx.gif
 

Surfinn

Member
Indeed. Those movies are objectively awful, disregarding any kind of sentimental or nostalgic attachment to the originals.

My GF had never seen SW in her life. I told her that I really love the OT, but the PT wasn't AS good. That's all I said, because she asked me what I thought ( though I hate the PT, I didn't want to taint her viewing). Didn't say anything else about SW. We watched 4-6, she loved them all (Jedi was her favorite actually).

We watched the PT. Once crawl started, we had to pause the movie because she was confused.

"Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute. Hoping to resolve the matter with a blockade of deadly battleships, the greedy Trade Federation has stopped all shipping to the small planet of Naboo."

I tried to explain those opening three sentences to her, then I realized, I didn't really know how to explain it right myself.

Anyway, I tried explaining the best I could, then we continued. She hated boy Anakin. With a passion. "Why did they pick a kid that couldn't act to play the role of Anakin?" she asked me.

She asked the same question about Anakin in EP2. She thought EP3 was more interesting but still terrible.

My GF, ON HER OWN, with no criticism or input of my own, brought up many of the criticisms generated by the Plinket reviews (ie why is this acting so shitty, why is this story so contrived, why are the characters so painfully boring.. why is there so much unnecessary CGI, why are the designs so boring/uninspired).

This is not about nostalgia. These movies really are that bad.
 

Ishida

Banned
I pray to God that Disney remakes the prequels.
Get an Anakin that looks like young shaw, make it start off at the beginning of the clone wars, make his downfall not make him look like an idiot and boom! $$$$$

Not happening. Not a big enough number of haters among the general consumers.

And thank goodness for that. The prequels are here to stay. :)
 

Surfinn

Member
Not happening. Not a big enough number of haters among the general consumers.

And thank goodness for that. The prequels are here to stay. :)

I wonder if there was any talk about whether or not the PT was on the table in terms of it being remade in the future. I'm willing to bet George made sure it couldn't happen. But I dunno if there was even any talk of this.
 

Ishida

Banned
I wonder if there was any talk about whether or not the PT was on the table in terms of it being remade in the future. I'm willing to bet George made sure it couldn't happen. But I dunno for sure if there was even any talk of this.

Highly doubt it. Remember, the prequels are not universally hated movies when it comes to the general consumers. Most of the bitching comes from purist fans. I think the movies did well at the box office, they sold quite a lot of merchandise and they even spawned new stuff like the Clone Wars cartoon/CGI series.

I don't think Disney has any single good reason to reboot the prequels.
 
Of course Disney won't remake the prequels. There's zero point and would just muddy things up. Even as someone who thinks the prequels are garbage, I would still think it was dumb to remake them. They exist, they aren't great, oh well. I'll enjoy the OT and hopefully the new movies remain at least as good as Force Awakens.

There are an infinite number of stories to tell in the Star Wars universe. They aren't going to waste their time with remakes. Not in our lifetimes at least.
 
Anakin: You are so…beautiful.
Padme: It’s only because I’m so in love.
Anakin: No. No, it’s because I’m so in love with you.
Padme: Then love has blinded you?
Anakin: Well…that’s not exactly what I meant.
Padme: But it’s probably true.

*soul floats away from body to escape the cringe*

I'm saying! xD
That back and forth hurt...like REALLY hurt
 

Surfinn

Member
Of course Disney won't remake the prequels. There's zero point and would just muddy things up. Even as someone who thinks the prequels are garbage, I would still think it was dumb to remake them. They exist, they aren't great, oh well. I'll enjoy the OT and hopefully the new movies remain at least as good as Force Awakens.

There are an infinite number of stories to tell in the Star Wars universe. They aren't going to waste their time with remakes. Not in our lifetimes at least.

I agree if it were to happen, it wouldn't be soon, because they've already got lots of ideas going into production. However I think one day (possibly after they're done making main films, if there IS an end), they'd return and remake them.. if nothing else, for the money (even the OT). I think "not in our lifetime" is a little extreme though. We could totally see it happen, as long as it's legally possible. Just not soon.
 
Highly doubt it. Remember, the prequels are not universally hated movies when it comes to the general consumers. Most of the bitching comes from purist fans. I think the movies did well at the box office, they sold quite a lot of merchandise and they even spawned new stuff like the Clone Wars cartoon/CGI series.

I don't think Disney has any single good reason to reboot the prequels.

This post is all sorts of wrong

Is it really 'bitching' if the movies are ACTUALLY bad? Its not like people hate it just to hate it. Thats bitching
People were actually excited for TPM because Star Wars was returning after more than 15 years. People weren't hating on it out of the gate.
And box office numbers =/= great films
Also yes. Disney has PLENTY of reasons to remake the prequels. I'll list a few
-To tell a coherent story that properly builds upon characters we love and the star wars universe
-To make gangbusters
-To win over those who hated the prequels (millions)
-To introduce new fans to the star wars saga in the RIGHT way
-To de-canonize the prequels and make us forget they existed
 

Ishida

Banned
This post is all sorts of wrong

Is it really 'bitching' if the movies are ACTUALLY bad? Its not like people hate it just to hate it. Thats bitching
People were actually excited for TPM because Star Wars was returning after more than 15 years. People weren't hating on it out of the gate.
And box office numbers =/= great films
Also yes. Disney has PLENTY of reasons to remake the prequels. I'll list a few
-To tell a coherent story that properly builds upon characters we love and the star wars universe
-To make gangbusters
-To win over those who hated the prequels (millions)
-To introduce new fans to the star wars saga in the RIGHT way
-To de-canonize the prequels and make us forget they existed

Well, that's just like, your opinion man. Nothing "actually" about it.

Millions hated the prequels. Millions like them. Remember, when it comes to being a general consumer, you are not in a majority on this one.


Your words....they spite me.

I just find the tears of the prequels haters to be delicious. :p
 

Not

Banned
This post is all sorts of wrong

Is it really 'bitching' if the movies are ACTUALLY bad? Its not like people hate it just to hate it. Thats bitching
People were actually excited for TPM because Star Wars was returning after more than 15 years. People weren't hating on it out of the gate.
And box office numbers =/= great films
Also yes. Disney has PLENTY of reasons to remake the prequels. I'll list a few
-To tell a coherent story that properly builds upon characters we love and the star wars universe
-To make gangbusters
-To win over those who hated the prequels (millions)
-To introduce new fans to the star wars saga in the RIGHT way
-To de-canonize the prequels and make us forget they existed

They should just rerelease them as "Special Editions" but with 95% new scenes
 
Well, that's just like, your opinion man. Nothing "actually" about it.

Millions hated the prequels. Millions like them. Remember, when it comes to being a general consumer, you are not in a majority on this one.




I just find the tears of the prequels haters to be delicious. :p

Can you place your right hand on a boxset of the original trilogy while looking in the mirror and say that you think the prequels are genuinely well made, properly directed, and all around great films?
 

Ishida

Banned
Can you place your right hand on a boxset of the original trilogy while looking in the mirror and say that you think the prequels are genuinely well made, properly directed, and all around great films?

Of course not. The most I can say is that I found them entertaining, just like the OT. There is no Star Wars film I don't like.
 

Surfinn

Member
Sure, why not. I value them the same as the OT, which means, a bunch of kids movies with laughable acting and laughable dialogue that are pretty entertaining and enjoyable.



I guess I should've been more specific! I mean the "mainline" movies. Ep I-VII.
I dunno where this whole "these are kids movies" thing came from. EP3 is even PG-13. The clone wars and rebels stuff is targeted specifically for younger people. Main films are generally for all ages and have a lot to offer for various audiences.
 

Ishida

Banned
I dunno where this whole "these are kids movies" thing came from. EP3 is even PG-13. The clone wars and rebels stuff is targeted specifically for younger people. Main films are generally for all ages and have a lot to offer for various audiences.

I don't know. Most of the dialogue and overall script is incredibly silly and ridiculous. But yeah, I guess they are for all ages, I have no issue with that.
 
Sure, why not. I value them the same as the OT, which means, a bunch of kids movies with laughable acting and laughable dialogue that are pretty entertaining and enjoyable.



I guess I should've been more specific! I mean the "mainline" movies. Ep I-VII.

The dialogue in the prequels are not even in the same LEAGUE as the OT dialogue...or acting...

Its not even in the same HOUSE...Or STREET...OR TOWN...OR STATE
 

atr0cious

Member
I dunno where this whole "these are kids movies" thing came from.
From Lucas himself.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/394542.stm

"The movies are for children but they don't want to admit that. In the first film they absolutely hated R2 and C3-PO. In the second film they didn't like Yoda and in the third one they hated the Ewoks... and now Jar Jar is getting accused of the same thing."

I swear he's talking about toy sales in this quote.
 

Ishida

Banned
The dialogue in the prequels are not even in the same LEAGUE as the OT dialogue...or acting...

Its not even in the same HOUSE...Or STREET...OR TOWN...OR STATE

I disagree. Star Wars is just what it is, dumb fun. How could anyone forget super great dialogue like "I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board.".

That's some saturday cartoon level writing right there. Or are you really taking Star Wars seriously?

And how about the legendary, super stiff acting of Sir Alec Guiness? Mark Hamill was terrible in Episode IV as well.
 

atr0cious

Member
I disagree. Star Wars is just what it is, dumb fun. How could anyone forget super great dialogue like "I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board.".

That's some saturday cartoon level writing right there. Or are you really taking Star Wars seriously?

And how about the legendary, super stiff acting of Sir Alec Guiness? Mark Hamill was terrible in Episode IV as well.

Besides the fact that Lucas was more indie than hollywood during the original star wars, new hope isn't dumb in the way that the prequels are. The mis-en-scene is objectively better in every way in New Hope, and the writing doesn't devolve into circle jerk territory, from my point of view. And the level of acting is obviously better, because they had actual sets and people/puppets to interact with.
 
I'm gonna watch this later because I'm obsessed with hating the prequels. and because I cannot think of a single good defense of them so I am at least slightly intrigued.

the star wars original trilogy isn't great in the way citizen kane is great. they're light space adventures. the prequels are bad movies that also shit on the legacy of star wars.
 
I disagree. Star Wars is just what it is, dumb fun. How could anyone forget super great dialogue like "I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board.".

That's some saturday cartoon level writing right there. Or are you really taking Star Wars seriously?

And how about the legendary, super stiff acting of Sir Alec Guiness? Mark Hamill was terrible in Episode IV as well.

You're comparing a few lines to an entire 3 movies here.
And I never thought Mark's or Alec's acting was stiff. i actually though Guiness was the highlight of Ep 4 right next to Harrison

There are some lines that make me cringe in the OT however like the whole nerfherder thing lol but its not nearly as insufferable as the whole romance thing in AoTC **Shivers**
And its not a bad thing to take star wars seriously..dont let Lucas trick you into thinking they are kids movies. they are classic space opera's not sesame street in space. Although there are cheesy moments, it tells a grand story. And it has romance, violence, OTT action and drama. Doesnt seem very kiddy to me.

Check the demographics. Males between the ages of 20-40 make up most of Star War's fanbase
 
I agree if it were to happen, it wouldn't be soon, because they've already got lots of ideas going into production. However I think one day (possibly after they're done making main films, if there IS an end), they'd return and remake them.. if nothing else, for the money (even the OT). I think "not in our lifetime" is a little extreme though. We could totally see it happen, as long as it's legally possible. Just not soon.

They've been making Star Wars movies for 40 years. There will be a reboot some day 10-20 years after they stop making the modern ones. Who knows how long they'll carry on. I think it's extremely unlikely that we'll see a full on reboot in our lives. There's just not much reason for it.

They have an infinite amount of space and time to play with in the universe. What they need to do after Episode 9 is leave the Skywalkers behind. If they can pull that off, they're set.
 

Ishida

Banned
Besides the fact that Lucas was more indie than hollywood during the original star wars, new hope isn't dumb in the way that the prequels are. The mis-en-scene is objectively better in every way in New Hope, and the writing doesn't devolve into circle jerk territory, from my point of view. And the level of acting is obviously better, because they had actual sets and people/puppets to interact with.

You're comparing a few lines to an entire 3 movies here.
And I never thought Mark's or Alec's acting was stiff. i actually though Guiness was the highlight of Ep 4 right next to Harrison

There are some lines that make me cringe in the OT however like the whole nerfherder thing lol but its not nearly as insufferable as the whole romance thing in AoTC **Shivers**
And its not a bad thing to take star wars seriously..dont let Lucas trick you into thinking they are kids movies. they are classic space opera's not sesame street in space. Although there are cheesy moments, it tells a grand story. And it has romance, violence, OTT action and drama. Doesnt seem very kiddy to me.

Check the demographics. Males between the ages of 20-40 make up most of Star War's fanbase

Well I disagree. I found the acting to be incredibly goofy in the OT and the PT. No sane person would ever act like that or say stuff like that.

In my opinion, taking Star Wars seriously is just hilarious. They are dumb fun movies in space with lightsabers and magic.

I mean, the only reason the rebels were able to blow up the Death Star in Episode VI was because some inept guard opened the blast door to a guy covering half his face, saying "the rebels are dead! Open up".

Stupid beyond belief. But fun. They are dumb fun.
 
Well I disagree. I found the acting to be incredibly goofy in the OT and the PT. No sane person would ever act like that or say stuff like that.

In my opinion, taking Star Wars seriously is just hilarious. They are dumb fun movies in space with lightsabers and magic.

I mean, the only reason the rebels were able to blow up the Death Star in Episode VI was because some inept guard opened the blast door to a guy covering half his face, saying "the rebels are dead! Open up".

Stupid beyond belief. But fun. They are dumb fun.

I disagree but lets just leave it at that
 
I disagree. Star Wars is just what it is, dumb fun. How could anyone forget super great dialogue like "I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board.".

That's some saturday cartoon level writing right there. Or are you really taking Star Wars seriously?

And how about the legendary, super stiff acting of Sir Alec Guiness? Mark Hamill was terrible in Episode IV as well.

I know where you are going with this but A New Hope doesn't need to get taken down a peg. Alec Guiness was also nominated for Best Supporting Actor for that movie. Just like Lucas was nominated for best Writer and Director and the whole thing was nominated for Best Picture. It is a legitimately great movie.

I wish RLM didn't make their videos because then conversations about the prequels wouldn't just devolve into parroting their thoughts. Look at the conversation about Boyhood and what the default reaction to that movie has become. Its sad.

Yeah that's bullshit.. these movies have a much broader appeal than being "for children". Let's ask what Kasdan thinks, or anyone who worked on the OT or PT fit that matter.

Anyone with sense will tell you there's a much broader appeal than that.

On the VHS box set there was a quote from Lucas around 94 or something where he said something to the effect of making a series of fairytales for a generation who hadn't had them. Yeah they have a broad appeal but there are lots of reasons for that. I saw Star Wars when I was 3 years old. I saw Empire at 6 and Jedi at 9. It seemed grown up to me and just became part of my childhood.

Phantom Menace skewed really young and upon the dozens of rewatches of it I have had its sort of grown up a bit since when I first saw it. It also helps watching it with my son who loved it.
 

Surfinn

Member
I disagree. Star Wars is just what it is, dumb fun. How could anyone forget super great dialogue like "I recognized your foul stench when I was brought on board.".

That's some saturday cartoon level writing right there. Or are you really taking Star Wars seriously?

And how about the legendary, super stiff acting of Sir Alec Guiness? Mark Hamill was terrible in Episode IV as well.
Nitpicking at it's absolute finest right here, wow. Love that line, obviously it wasn't to be taken literally (metaphorical for his disgusting reputation). The writing is witty and funny in ANH, you're fooling yourself if you think it at least generally isn't solid.

I've seen the movie more times than I can count and just saw it a few days ago. Mark is a little nasally but both actors do a great job overall. Now Alec is stiff? Reaching..
 

Ishida

Banned
Nitpicking at it's absolute finest right here, wow. Love that line, obviously it wasn't to be taken literally (metaphorical for his disgusting reputation). The writing is witty and funny in ANH, you're fooling yourself if you think it at least generally isn't solid.

There's a defense force for everything, it seems. You can come up with all kinds of excuse if you want.

And as I said, I find the movies to be incredibly fun. A movie does not need a great script, or great special effects to be fun.
 

Surfinn

Member
There's a defense force for everything, it seems. You can come up with all kinds of excuse if you want.

And as I said, I find the movies to be incredibly fun. A movie does not need a great script, or great special effects to be fun.
Lol there's absolutely nothing wrong with you quote you chose. No idea how that is such a big impact on your interpretation of the writing.

ANH has both great effects (many which hold up well today) and a solid script.. I'm just perplexed as to how you can think the writing is actually bad.. but to each their own.
 

Ishida

Banned
Lol there's absolutely nothing wrong with you quote you chose. No idea how that is such a big impact on your interpretation of the writing.

Oh yeah, sure.

And I guess the "I hate sand" dialogue is great, too, and it requires interpretation?

ANH has both great effects and a solid script.. I'm just perplexed as to how you can think the writing is actually bad.. but to each their own.

It's a freaking movie with space wizards, and the quote "Only a Master of evil! Darth!".

Super deep. Super serious. Great writing right there. Not something that you would expect from an episode of He-Man, no sir!
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
To me the tragic flaw of the prequels will always be that they're films made up a lot of fun, sometimes even great, parts, that can't hold together around a weak central column: Anakin. The whole point of the prequel trilogy is to chronicle the rise and fall of this super-important mythological character. And it doesn't work on two levels:

1. Anakin is referred to in reverent tones by old man Kenobi and is said to have been a great, even mighty, man before his fall. But in the prequel trilogy Anakin is basically a hot headed moron who never rises to anything, outside of being a very clever child who can build things outside his age range and learned to fly vehicles early. Obi-Wan must constantly worry over his troubled progress and continual backsliding into undisciplined foolishness and sometimes outright darkness.

2. Even putting aside the conflict between Anakin's portrayal and his storied position in the narrative, the character development and basic logic of his rise and fall is goofy to the point it would seem dumb in a cartoon. In this sense, I think Phantom Menace is the best movie, for if nothing else, child Anakin fits well enough into his place in the story and nothing is expected of him beyond being a precocious hero child. At worst his accidentally destroying a battleship and saving the day is pushing the silly meter into the red, but it does fit with the tone of the film.

Basically, when I rewatch the films, I realize I totally enjoy parts 2 and 3 whenever Anakin isn't on screen doing outrageously dumb teenage Anakin shit. Or turning fabulously evil in 30 seconds, or believing whatever dumb shit Sheev can think up on the spot. (While inwardly sniggering at the floating holographic sign over his head that reads [HELLO, MY NAME IS SHEEV EVILMAN PALPATINE. CAN I INTEREST YOU IN SOME OF OUR FINE EVIL?])
 

Surfinn

Member
Oh yeah, sure.

And I guess the "I hate sand" dialogue is great, too, and it requires interpretation?



It's a freaking movie with space wizards, and the quote "Only a Master of evil! Darth!".

Super deep. Super serious. Great writing right there. Not something that you would expect from an episode of He-Man, no sir!

Apples and oranges, man. Never heard a single person complain about either of the lines you mentioned.

Let me think some good lines off the top of my head from JUST ANH (funny, serious, whatever)..

The Force will be with you.. always.
The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought.
That's no moon.. it's a space station.
Watch your mouth kid or you're going to find yourself floating home.
We seem to be made to suffer.
Curse my metal body it wasn't fast enough!
Will someone get this walking carpet out of my way?/No reward is worth this..
All of Han's improv with the intercom is hilarious

This film has an incredible amount of creativity, wonky/goofiness, chemistry between cast, excellent/relevant mythology/metaphorical writing (as simple as it is).. and just a ton of personality. It's hard for me to believe someone could think the writing is just bad, from an objective standpoint, but opinions, right?

And lol, here comes the "space wizards" argument. Because something that takes place in a fantasy sci-fi setting can't be at least taken a little seriously, right? They're just kids movies and they have laser swords. And people move things with a special force, how dumb is that? How dare us think there might be something more to it?

I mean.. if these things keep you from enjoying the deeper mythological/metaphorical power of SW, these types of films probably aren't really for you, because the OT was written so people could appreciate those things and how lots of the moments on screen are relatable, feel good moments that make us think about them after we're done watching. That's the magic of the films, and that's fine if you're not feeling it but this whole "it's all fake and stupid and unbelievable!" argument is almost as silly and tired as the "GL raped my childhood" BS.

But like I said, if you just find enjoyment on a surface level, sure, I can see how you'd enjoy the PT too because that's what those films are.. surface entertainment without the deeper and more introspective achievements of EP4-6.

If you don't feel the "magic" so many other people connect with, that's cool, but there's a reason why people sometimes take them more seriously than you.. because that magic works for them. And that's understandable.

I think the Yoda/X-Wing scene is the best cinematic moment ever, for what it achieves visually and metaphorically with the audience (considering how simplistic it is). You might just see a little green man lifting a toy plane. And that's fine, but you're missing out on a whole lot.
 

Surfinn

Member
Two of the prequels are bad. One of them is better than RoTJ

Still not on board with this. I can't think of a single scene, aside from "you were my brother Anakin" that wasn't totally fucked up with botched directing/hammy acting/unintentionally comical delivery.

And even still, some people hate that scene. I loved it, thought it was the only moment worth watching from the PT (story/character wise). The Vader scene was pretty great up until the obvious "NOOO".
 

atr0cious

Member
Still not on board with this. I can't think of a single scene, aside from "you were my brother Anakin" that wasn't totally fucked up with botched directing/hammy acting/unintentionally comical delivery.

And even still, some people hate that scene. I loved it, thought it was the only moment worth watching from the PT (story/character wise). The Vader scene was pretty great up until the obvious "NOOO".
This is spot on. Laughed out loud at my midnight screening during the Vader scene. The brother scene has pathos for some reason and pulls together the rest of the drek into a decent moment of tragedy, that's more because McGregor can act his ass off than the script being worth the 10 cents it cost to print that line.

The died of a broken heart line is a terrible line in any sci-fi movie.
 
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