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[Chiaroscuro]

Great thread! Subscribed!

Maybe you can help me with some doubts guys.

First of all, I live in Brazil and the Master System was great here and was one of my late childhood memories. I really like the console and I am planning to start a MS game collection.

The problem here is that while MS was really well developed in my country, the early releases (which ate the ones in my memory) were published here by TecToy in not so great cardboxes. They are really dificult to find in average condition, and I really like my games pristine, with all the manuals, posters and inserts. Most of retro stuff being sold here are overpriced and in poor condition. Living in a tropical country means that paper usually get stained (fungus). If I find somwthing good it is always 10x more expensive than the same thing in US/Europe.

I thought to start buying gamws from US because our tvs support NTSC but not PAL-G but US did not get most of the Master System Games. So I started to look on the European releases.

My questions are:
1 - Can I play PAL games on a US console? I do not think MS is region protected, right?

2 - Will I face problems with the 50/60 Hz thing? Will any game run slower than it should be or whatever?

If I really need a PAL consolw to play the games due to 1 or 2 it will be difficult for me, since mw only tv that accepts PAL-G is an old LCD. It will probably scale the games like crap and I would prefer a CRT for old school gaming (I have one 29" for my Genesis/Saturn).

Any ideas?

 

[Poimandres]

I was a Master System kid. I got plenty of time with the NES as well thanks to friends.

Did anyone play the Master System version of Ghouls and Ghosts? It's quite different to the NES version, and I prefer it. This is the version I grew up with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqD2lR0ulPM

Wonder Boy 3 was my absoulte favourite though, and I really think it's one of the absolute best games of the 8-bit era.

 

[sixteen-bit]

tangentially related, NFG's Wonder Boy sprite history:
http://nfgworld.com/system/wordpress/?p=346

fun read

 

[sibarraz]

At this point of life, I will not buy a master system, I'm sad that I could never play space harrier with 3d glasses, a friend told me that it was definitely an ''interesting'' experience, but in the other hand I want to buy the ultimate genesis collection to end for once Phantasy Star I, my god what a game, I you put in a mood that you are in the 80's or even if you are in the actual time and know the limitations of consoles back then, this game will always blow you away

 

[jay]

At this point of life, I will not buy a master system, I'm sad that I could never play space harrier with 3d glasses, a friend told me that it was definitely an ''interesting'' experience, but in the other hand I want to buy the ultimate genesis collection to end for once Phantasy Star I, my god what a game, I you put in a mood that you are in the 80's or even if you are in the actual time and know the limitations of consoles back then, this game will always blow you away

Just buy a power base convertor.

tangentially related, NFG's Wonder Boy sprite history:
http://nfgworld.com/system/wordpress/?p=346

fun read

Cool link, thanks.

 

[sibarraz]

I can't buy them because I could never found one/ is unviable for me to import one from the states or any other country

 

[IrishNinja]

1 - Can I play PAL games on a US console? I do not think MS is region protected, right?

i literally lost a Golden Axe Warrior BIN auction for like $27 looking this up, @$%@...looks like you should be fine.
helps, since Master of Darkness never came out here, except for game gear

 

[=GabrielKnight=]

Great thread! Subscribed!
My questions are:
1 - Can I play PAL games on a US console? I do not think MS is region protected, right?

Yes, the SMS is not region locked

Great thread! Subscribed!
2 - Will I face problems with the 50/60 Hz thing? Will any game run slower than it should be or whatever?

the Z80 CPU is clocked faster for the US/JAP version, a little slower for the PAL markets, to match the PAL standard refresh rate.

So, whatever is the region of the cartridge, it will run slower on a PAL machine, faster on a US one

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Yes, the SMS is not region locked



the Z80 CPU is clocked faster for the US/JAP version, a little slower for the PAL markets, to match the PAL standard refresh rate.

So, whatever is the region of the cartridge, it will run slower on a PAL machine, faster on a US one

Even if I use a PAL game in an US Genesis with an US SMS Base Converter?

So if I use an NTSC machine the games will run at full speed no matter which cartdrige region, right? I am wondering if there is some PAL only release that will be harder than expected.

 

[=GabrielKnight=]

Even if I use a PAL game in an US Genesis with an US SMS Base Converter?

So if I use an NTSC machine the games will run at full speed no matter which cartdrige region, right? I am wondering if there is some PAL only release that will be harder than expected.

I'm not sure about the Base Converter, but it should run at 60hz

And yes, NTSC machines always run at full speed no matter the cartridge region

 

[Combichristoffersen]

I was a Master System kid. I got plenty of time with the NES as well thanks to friends.

Did anyone play the Master System version of Ghouls and Ghosts? It's quite different to the NES version, and I prefer it. This is the version I grew up with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqD2lR0ulPM

Yep, I've played it. IIRC it's a semi-downport of the Mega Drive version. As kids we just referred to it as 'the naked game' because Arthur would run around in his boxers when losing his armour :lol

As expected, it was hard as tits.

 

[catmincer]

I got to the last stage of that when I was a kid! When I try now I can barely get past the 2nd boss.

 

[IrishNinja]

FUUUUUUUU went to bid on Golden Axe Warrior today (i never use ebay mobile), saw it at $20 something with an hour to go, so i put in $30 and thought nothing of it...then it's over, and i notice the auction's in pounds.

i mean, i still got a good price for a rare game, but i wasn't in a hurry for it, wish idve just gotten something i'd not played before like Master of Darkness, but at least i can cross this one off my list

*edit i totally remembered where i heard of Power Strike before, my old Team Sega newsletters had some kind of exclusive offer to order it at one point, i wanna say?

 

[catmincer]

Ouch! 30 pounds is not cheap at all haha. Do you live in Aus?

 

[IrishNinja]

US...yeah

i mean, i missed the game, but not that much

 

[catmincer]

Ahhh damn.

For any Australians, if you want to score some cheap SMS (or other Sega games). Try www.trademe.co.nz

It's kinda like the NZ version of eBay but Australians can join too. There's often bargains on there, like Alex Kidd in Shinobi World for $7 NZ.

 

[IrishNinja]

wait, those work on US, right? i wonder if it'd still be a deal after shipping, always wanted to play that one.

 

[butanebob]

2 - Will I face problems with the 50/60 Hz thing? Will any game run slower than it should be or whatever?

Yep. Some games run way too fast when they're set to 60hz. Power Strike 2 and Ninja Gaiden for eg, and probably a few more.

 

[woodypop]

Loved the Master System. I got one in 1987 when all my friends were getting the NES. Had some wonderful times with that machine. Space Harrier, Zillion, Aztec Adventure, The Ninja, Astro Warrior...so many good games!

And I love the SMS shout outs in Regular Show

Just saw an episode yesterday where it was prominently displayed.

So awesome!

 

[Phonomezer]

Just saw an episode yesterday where it was prominently displayed.

So awesome!

Hah, cool.

I love the design of the original Master System, I'd like to make something useful out of the husk I have sitting in a box somewhere.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Ouch! 30 pounds is not cheap at all haha. Do you live in Aus?

I don't know, the game sells for $30 to $100 in the US on ebay... that's not THAT bad. It's a pricey game.

Yep. Some games run way too fast when they're set to 60hz. Power Strike 2 and Ninja Gaiden for eg, and probably a few more.

Yeah, there are a very small number of games that will run too fast, but most are fine, and even most of the ones with issues still are playable.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Yep. Some games run way too fast when they're set to 60hz. Power Strike 2 and Ninja Gaiden for eg, and probably a few more.

But there is no way to avoid that (unless to use a PAL SMS in PAL TV) because there are no US versions of those games, right?

 

[A Black Falcon]

But there is no way to avoid that (unless to use a PAL SMS in PAL TV) because there are no US versions of those games, right?

Yes, those two games are PAL only.

 

[Teknoman]

Gonna have to look into this since i've been eyeing a power base converter for awhile now.

Is it hard to find the Sonic titles released for the system in North America?

 

[A Black Falcon]

Gonna have to look into this since i've been eyeing a power base converter for awhile now.

Is it hard to find the Sonic titles released for the system in North America?

If you have several hundred dollars to waste for something that is 100% identical to the PAL version except for a sticker on the outside of the box, go ahead! Remember that Sonic the Hedgehog was the last game released for the SMS in North America, and as such it's rare. And yes, it's just the same as the PAL version except for a sticker. There are one or two other late (for the US) SMS titles that are similar, SMS Power probably has a list somewhere.

Seriously though, for SMS games released in both the US and Europe, I don't know of any where the US and European versions are actually different, and the European copies are usually cheaper. It's the Europe-exclusive SMS games like Power Strike 2 or Ninja Gaiden where you find the 50hz-optimized stuff, generally.

(As for Japan, there of course the SMS was discontinued in late 1989, so it didn't get anywhere near getting a mid 1991 title like Sonic SMS.)

 

[Teknoman]

If you have several hundred dollars to waste for something that is 100% identical to the PAL version except for a sticker on the outside of the box, go ahead! Remember that Sonic the Hedgehog was the last game released for the SMS in North America, and as such it's rare. And yes, it's just the same as the PAL version except for a sticker. There are one or two other late (for the US) SMS titles that are similar, SMS Power probably has a list somewhere.

Seriously though, for SMS games released in both the US and Europe, I don't know of any where the US and European versions are actually different, and the European copies are usually cheaper. It's the Europe-exclusive SMS games like Power Strike 2 or Ninja Gaiden where you find the 50hz-optimized stuff, generally.

(As for Japan, there of course the SMS was discontinued in late 1989, so it didn't get anywhere near getting Sonic SMS.)

Cool, thats the one thing I was worried about import wise. No wonder most of the ebay auctions are from Australia or the UK.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Master System had the best port of Bubble Bobble by a country mile which was true till the PS2 era with the Taito Collections and the ONLY port of Wonder Boy 1 (SEGA's much better original version of what Hudson Soft copypasted for its Adventure Island series on NES).
Both were amazing since at the time it was kinda crazy to see console games so close to their arcade counterpart.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

Yes, those two games are PAL only.

Now I am wondering if TecToy changed something on those games for the Brazilian release (they were released here too and our systems are 60Hz) or they are "too fast" and no one knows that the games were supposed to be slower.

 

[KDash31987]

Normally I'd come into one of these threads and post a pretty big, respectable collection of games for whatever the console the thread relates to, but...the Master System is one of the few consoles I currently have that I didn't own when it originally came out (Atari 7800, TurboGrafx-16, and Commodore 64 being the others I recently bought), so I don't have much for it. I picked mine up at a flea market for $20 with two controllers and Wonder Boy sometime in mid-2011, and I haven't bought much for it...but here's what I got:

I meant to do this when the thread was originally posted, but the AA batteries in my camera were pretty much dead...but, I just realized that my PSP charger cable works with my camera, so I went ahead and did this. Hah.

If you can't tell, my Master System is above the TV. As you can see, it has Hang-On and Safari Hunt built-on, which was really nice, since I didn't have much to play on it for a while.

I'm hoping to find some more games, but I don't see a lot around here. :/

Maybe I should start looking online for more games...

 

[catmincer]

Fantasy Zone is great fun. It's trippy as!

 

[BobbyRobby]

golden axe warrior rules, but my save got wiped. i want to play it again, but it was grindy as hell to get certain equipment.

any codes for this, or cheat device for the master system out there?

 

[flak57]

My current lineup, all recently from ebay -



I usually end up reselling things eventually though, collecting without the financial burden!

 

[televator]

Damn you guys putting my collection to shame again!

Here's what I have for the SMS:

Paltry selection, I know, but I'm working on it.

 

[BKK]

Now I am wondering if TecToy changed something on those games for the Brazilian release (they were released here too and our systems are 60Hz) or they are "too fast" and no one knows that the games were supposed to be slower.

I really doubt Sega ever optimised any SMS games for 50Hz. Games optimised for 60Hz generally run fine (but slow) on 50Hz systems, but games optimised for 50Hz can have some serious glitching or even not run at all on 60Hz systems.

Even after Sega Japan and Sega America dropped the SMS Sega were still selling SMS games to Irwin (Canada - 60Hz) until 1993, Samsung (Korea - 60Hz) until 1995, and TecToy (Brazil - 60Hz) until 1995 (with TecToy continuing to support it themselves until 1998). That's more 60Hz customers than 50Hz (Sega Europe and Sega Ozisoft, which Sega supported until 1995).

Also consider that all Game Gears were 60Hz, and Game Gear was supported by Sega until 1996 in Japan, and 1997 in US, with SMS games still being released for Game Gear in US and Japan, it would make sense for Sega to optimise at 60Hz for easy porting between the two.

Finally, if it aint broke why fix it? No-one ever complained about European SMS games running too slow (unlike Mega Drive there wasn't really an import scene for people to compare to 60Hz versions). So it seems unlikely that Japanese devs accustomed to developing at 60Hz on 60Hz hardware would suddenly dump all their equipment for 50Hz TVs and consoles (obtaining 50Hz TVs in Japan probably wouldn't have been a simple matter either).

The real issue is with third party games generally developed by European developers for their domestic market, several have glitches when played at 60Hz, some quite severe, and Back to the Future Part III won't run at all.

 

[sixteen-bit]

televator, Apparently SMS Rampage programmed enhanced FM sound when you play it on a Japanese system.

Which is weird, because it was never officially released for the Japanese market.

 

[A Black Falcon]

I really doubt Sega ever optimised any SMS games for 50Hz. Games optimised for 60Hz generally run fine (but slow) on 50Hz systems, but games optimised for 50Hz can have some serious glitching or even not run at all on 60Hz systems.

Even after Sega Japan and Sega America dropped the SMS Sega were still selling SMS games to Irwin (Canada - 60Hz) until 1993, Samsung (Korea - 60Hz) until 1995, and TecToy (Brazil - 60Hz) until 1995 (with TecToy continuing to support it themselves until 1998). That's more 60Hz customers than 50Hz (Sega Europe and Sega Ozisoft, which Sega supported until 1995).

Also consider that all Game Gears were 60Hz, and Game Gear was supported by Sega until 1996 in Japan, and 1997 in US, with SMS games still being released for Game Gear in US and Japan, it would make sense for Sega to optimise at 60Hz for easy porting between the two.

Finally, if it aint broke why fix it? No-one ever complained about European SMS games running too slow (unlike Mega Drive there wasn't really an import scene for people to compare to 60Hz versions). So it seems unlikely that Japanese devs accustomed to developing at 60Hz on 60Hz hardware would suddenly dump all their equipment for 50Hz TVs and consoles (obtaining 50Hz TVs in Japan probably wouldn't have been a simple matter either).

The real issue is with third party games generally developed by European developers for their domestic market, several have glitches when played at 60Hz, some quite severe, and Back to the Future Part III won't run at all.

Good points, and I wouldn't be surprised if most or all of the SMS/GG cross-platform releases are unoptomized 50hz in Europe, but there are a few (non-European-developed) SMS exclusives that do seem to be at least somewhat optimized, such as, as have been mentioned earlier, Power Strike II and Ninja Gaiden... the music plays faster in 60hz, so Power Strike II for instance sounds like it was supposed to be 50hz. But for stuff that's also on the GG... yeah, were any of those optimized? I don't know, but wouldn't be too surprised if they weren't.

televator, Apparently SMS Rampage programmed enhanced FM sound when you play it on a Japanese system.

Which is weird, because it was never officially released for the Japanese market.

That's not the only one. There's a list somewhere of the (US/EU-only) SMS games that have FM sound in them.

 

[televator]

televator, Apparently SMS Rampage programmed enhanced FM sound when you play it on a Japanese system.

Which is weird, because it was never officially released for the Japanese market.

That is weird. Would playing on the Power Base make any difference?

 

[IrishNinja]

wooo i gotta post mine soon, i actually have (a few) more than televor & KDash31987 on this one!

 

[IrishNinja]

here goes - i must've had 40-50 SMS titles in the day, but i got most of my favorites back, and some others on the cheap.

even some of the Yu Suzuki classics i'd loved as a kid, they're just better on the Genesis...my current list is basically Master of Darkness and some Alex Kidd games for nostalgia, heh

*edit damn Rastan's cover is dirty as fuck now that i look at it

 

[woodypop]

here goes - i must've had 40-50 SMS titles in the day, but i got most of my favorites back, and some others on the cheap.



even some of the Yu Suzuki classics i'd loved as a kid, they're just better on the Genesis...my current list is basically Master of Darkness and some Alex Kidd games for nostalgia, heh

My good man, I see a volume Retro and several issues of Retro Gamer! Good stuff! =)

 

[IrishNinja]

woody...i literally found a bookstore here that carried it & went nuts, but it's never in stock! i think i grabbed that volume on a EU trip, i swear i'm gonna subscribe to that one later this year...it's so good. kills me i only just discovered it last year!

 

[woodypop]

I know, Irish! I've been buying those mags for the past few years. Earlier back issues/volumes can be expensive and tough to track down. I did get several from the Buy/Sell/Trade thread.

Because they're published in the UK, the coverage can focus on microcomputers more than I'd like, but I still enjoy most of the content. I wish we had a similar domestic retro magazine, but I'll gladly take what I can get.

 

[Hawk269]

For me it was all about the RPG's and especially Phantasy Star 1 which I still have my original Master System and Original Copy (both working) of Phantasy Star. I remember Sega being on a roll with RPG's. Sword of Vermillion came out just about a week or so before PS1 and it was an amazing game as well. But nothing beats out Phantasy Star 1.

I would kill for a next gen remake of PS1!

 

[sixteen-bit]

So I sumbled across this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lFxgqwrFGXI

Have any of you modded a NES controller for use with a Master System? I prefer the NES controller and have a couple of spare non-dogbone ones. I wouldn't mind doing this. Maybe get a pro-looking vinyl label done in SMS style to replace the NES one and dye the shell black to match the SMS...

 

[Canadian Psycho]

What are the must have SMS games available on the Virtual Console? I have only purchased Wonder Boy in Monster Land and Wonder Boy III because I loved them so much as a kid (played at a friend's house as I was an NES kid like almost everyone).

 

[IrishNinja]

got my copy of Golden Axe Warrior a while back, for me it's down to Master of Darkness (was gonna get the Game Gear one, but id rather just get the SMS adapter for said device) and then some Fantasy Zone & Alex Kidds when i see them for cheap.

to answer the prior question, my personal favorites:

Phantasy Star
Golvellius
Zillion
Shinobi
Rastan
Kenseiden & The Ninja are fun too

i know im forgetting a few here!

 

[baphomet]

I'm actually in Tennessee right now where my master system is. I was looking at it earlier but could find the av cable. Is it proprietary or will my model 2 genesis one work? It's a model 1 if that makes a difference.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I'm actually in Tennessee right now where my master system is. I was looking at it earlier but could find the av cable. Is it proprietary or will my model 2 genesis one work? It's a model 1 if that makes a difference.

You'd need the Genesis Model 1 AV cable. The Genesis 2 AV cable wouldn't be compatible with the SMS.

 

[Chiaroscuro]

I'm actually in Tennessee right now where my master system is. I was looking at it earlier but could find the av cable. Is it proprietary or will my model 2 genesis one work? It's a model 1 if that makes a difference.

The composite cable is all the same for Genesis 1, Genesis 2, Master System 1 and 2. If you want to go futher (aka Scart or RGB) there is one for each model.

 

[KDash31987]

sixteen-bit is right, only a Genesis 1 video cable will work with a Master System...well, sorta.
The Genesis 2 cable (same as the 32X one) has a much smaller connector, so it won't fit...though, if you have a 32X, you can use the cable that goes from your Genesis' video out to your 32X as an adapter for the video cable, which would then work just fine. But it'd be better to just get a Genesis 1 video cable.