I'm not sure really.
I can easily see blue states slowly squeezing gun rights - "assault weapon" ban, then keep slowly expanding to various other kinds of firearms.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
The speech that sparked a revolution.
- Thread starter Nintendo Switch
- Start date
I'm not sure really.
I can easily see blue states slowly squeezing gun rights - "assault weapon" ban, then keep slowly expanding to various other kinds of firearms.
Nintendo Switch
Banned
That’s not doable. The Supreme Court has affirmed that the second amendment clearly protects the right of people to own revolvers barring a compelling reason (such as a history of violence, extremist views, or threats of violence).
At the same time, and this is what the NRA and Guns rights advocates leave out, the Supreme Court has repeatedly refused to expand second amendments rights to apply to anything other than revolvers. The NRA had tried over a dozen times to get the Supreme Court to expand the second amendment to apply to things beyond revolvers and the court refused them on every turn. Even Anthony Scalia said that that’s not something he was ready to do.
Therefore, as per the law of the land, the 2nd amendment applies, but it applies to revolvers only. Both blue states and federal laws may impose restrictions on any firearms except for revolvers. And this is by design, eventhe most conservative Supreme Court in history reaffirmed this interpretation of the second amendment.
And the NRA is well aware of this fact, because they are the people that have been asking the Supreme Court to review cases to try to get the second amendment to apply to other types of guns as well for decades, and have failed every time.
I agree with the Supreme Court. The states and the nation can and should make new purchases of long range high capacity semiautomatic rifles illegal. As long as they do not impose restrictions on the sales of revolvers, they are completely in line with the second amendment.
But no one should ever impose restrictions on revolvers. The only individuals that can be made unable to buy or keep revolvers are those explicitly found by the courts or by law enforcement (pending court review within 72 hours) not to be safely able to own a gun. This is exactly what is done with psychotic people. The laws allow law enforcement to involuntarily send people with psychosis to mental health hospitals for 72 hours. But within 72 hours of them being sent to the hospital, they have to be seen by a psychiatrist and if the psychiatrist feels they are not safe for release, they have to have a court hearing to determine if they should be forced to stay in the hospital and be made to take medication to get better initially for 30-90 days based on how severe the illness is before needing to have another court hearing to extend this stay further if indicated.
Last edited:
Nintendo Switch
Banned
The OP is literally nothing but facts. The speech is packed full of facts as well. But taking into account your criticism, I edited the op and split it up into different sections so that the facts are easier to read.
Last edited:
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I said 'tactical range', not 'maximal range'. Of course you can't have the same magazine capacity for long-range cartridges as you could for intermediate cartridges. But during WW2, when the AR doctrine was invented, it turned empirically that for most troops' intents intermediate range was just as lethal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate_cartridge said:
I never questioned the universality of the ammo. But there's no 'reduced lethality' of AR rounds -- for their target range they are the most lethal ammo, fullstop. Actually, throughout the entire history of 7.62 cartridges development in the USSR ('7.62 Soviet'), the penetration properties of the projectile have been constantly improved upon. This is effectively light-machine-gun ammo proliferated across other firearms segments. And before you say 'but 7.62 was superseded by 5.45' -- that is actually worse in terms of damage across tissues.
Please. If you had the choice to be shot in the leg by a .22LR or by a 5.56 NATO you'd chose the latter?
And yet somehow a kid could get an AR along with the respective ammo, and incur devastating damage. Not much longer after an adult had done the same in Las Vegas with a friggin personal arsenal. Where's the common sense regulation?
Last edited:
rokkerkory
Member
Now even Trump wants to take your guns away before due process. Isn’t that what he said Hillary would do??
Ecto311
Member
From Anthony cumias Twitter:
Relax. Has anyone read The Art Of The Deal?
This is a bargaining strategy he’s used before. He used it with DACA. Tell them what they want to hear and bargain from a sympathetic position.
He’s playing these politicians. He’s very good at this. https://t.co/2mG3b2oKIB
Never read the book my self and can't think Trump is good at anything really but I never considered this angle.
Yeah, certainly that ridiculous meeting was a result of Trump being TOO smart. The idea that anyone could think maybe he's just a colossal fucking idiot and has no idea what the hell he's doing is preposterous.
rokkerkory
Member
FL raised age to buy firearms to 21 and bumpstops are banned. Nice job kids!!
Baby steps, but steps nonetheless that were never taking after all the other mass shootings
TrainedRage
Banned
I need to buy an AR. This thread has done it's job in scaring me to buy another rifle before they are banned. I want an AUG or SCAR but they are so pricy compared to an AR4. 
Nintendo Switch
Banned
Yes. These kids achieved something that seemed impossible a month ago. They convinced the Florida GOP to put logic ahead of ideology and defy the NRA. I hope the national GOP have the balls to do the same.
Last edited:
Jag
Member
How else should it be done? The survivors of a massacre want the spotlight so other kids don't have to experience the horror of
watching their friends bodies get shredded during school. The kids are speaking directly to the people. They are using social media the way it is supposed to be used. I know because I'm following it. They lived through this horror. They have a right to be pissed.
It is gaining ground and exposure. That is the only way change will happen. The NRA has an absolute stranglehold on the FL legislature. These kids need all the fucking help they can get.
Last edited:
rokkerkory
Member
You must absolutely hate all the money that goes into lobbying then
Blam
Member
Yes you're right I do.
rokkerkory
Member
I have a feeling our problems with guns would be solved much much better without lobbying including ratings from NRA for each congress member.
Blam
Member
Worst part is if you're gonna go out and publically challenge them. More then not you're going to be shot by some stupid gun nut.
The obvious solution here is to make sure you have a gun to shoot them with before they shoot you
/s
Last edited:
Nintendo Switch
Banned
I can’t believe the NRA has the balls to sue Florida for the tiny sliver of common sense reforms that the gop agreed to pass. I hope they get their ass handed to them.
rokkerkory
Member
Adults can’t get anything done but kids can. Have hope for this country still.
goldrush80
Neo Member
New hotness, walkout to give up rights.
I think they might just want to feel like lawmakers and fellow citizens care more about school children than guns.
rokkerkory
Member
Someone is feeling pretty insecure here
BANGS
Banned
There's really something Orwellian about the government telling us what to protest about... poor kids...
edit: found this below...
This "school walkout" thing is giving me serious '1984' vibes.
Schools are sanctioning it, so it isn't actually a walkout. It's actually students conforming to the government authority by speaking a government-approved opinion in a government-approved venue. And that opinion is that they have their own rights taken away by the government whose opinion they are expressing.
You have students marching with the sanction of the state to demand less freedom from the state... and everyone is pretending that their doing so is somehow brave and rebellious.
If my kids weren't already home schooled, this would probably tip the balance.
-Josh Hugo
edit: found this below...
This "school walkout" thing is giving me serious '1984' vibes.
Schools are sanctioning it, so it isn't actually a walkout. It's actually students conforming to the government authority by speaking a government-approved opinion in a government-approved venue. And that opinion is that they have their own rights taken away by the government whose opinion they are expressing.
You have students marching with the sanction of the state to demand less freedom from the state... and everyone is pretending that their doing so is somehow brave and rebellious.
If my kids weren't already home schooled, this would probably tip the balance.
-Josh Hugo
Last edited:
What do you mean exactly? Like politicians saying they shouldn’t be doing this or bad mouthing them? Or are you saying these kids are just being manipulated and couldn’t possibly want to do this on their own?
BANGS
Banned
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...t-sends-message-on-gun-violence-idUSKCN1GQ155
Chanting “Hey hey, ho ho, the NRA has got to go!” students, many of whom will be able to vote in 2020, marched to the U.S. Capitol, where Democratic lawmakers emerged from the white-domed landmark to praise them.
Nintendo Switch
Banned
This lie had been debunked multiple times in this thread already. The kids are protesting for what they believe in. It’s obvious to anyone that bothers to listen to what they are saying.
The only people who are being spoon fed what to say are the politicians that are in the NRAs pockets.
65% of Americans support gun legislation. When 2/3rds of people want something but politicians won’t do it because of a tiny special industry funded by gun manufacturers, that has 1984 written all over it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...018/02/28/gun-control-polling-parkland-430099
BANGS
Banned
The kids are taking a free day off from school, don't kid yourself...
prag16
Banned
The United States isn't a direct democracy.
Or maybe they dont feel like getting shot in fucking school, or at all for that matter.
Its amazing people say with a straight face that these people arent smart enough to act on their own or feel emotion towards others.
Last edited:
TrainedRage
Banned
I work at a school. The kids were GIVEN 17 minutes to walk out of school, but not off school property. About half the students that were "protesting" just walked off to get fast food for lunch. A bunch came back two or so hours later and they were not allowed back in the school. You are kidding yourself if you think ALL these kids who walked out care even a bit about changing national gun laws. They wanted to get out of class and go eat at Mc Donalds. I would say about 1/4 knew what it was actually about and cared about the conversation.
prag16
Banned
The odds of getting killed in a school shooting are insanely low. Like we're talking somewhere between getting struck by lightning and getting mauled by your neighbor's siberian Tiger.
Apparently at the high school a friend of mine works at, most of the kids didn't even know what was going on, and a lot tagged along in a "oh, we can get out of class and go walk around outside for a while? Sweet!" type of way. I'm sure a lot of them are sincere, but to cast this as some powerful message is disingenuous. It sounds like a ton of schools were actively sanctioning or even encouraging this, and we know how in-the-pocket of the Democratic party all teachers unions are. This wasn't exactly "brave" or anything". And pundits and Democratic politicians insisting "wow this sends a message" doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Last edited:
Nintendo Switch
Banned
If there was any legitimacy to your claim, they wouldn’t be outside protesting and marching to their government state houses on their “free day off from school”, they would be indoors playing video games and watching tv.
Last edited:
Ok. even if some of them are taking off just for the fun of it, does that downplay the fact that many are protesting, especially those that were there at that high school? Do they not get to protest without it somehow being them manipulated by politicians in your eyes?
Nintendo Switch
Banned
The odds of being killed in a mass shooting are actually pretty damn high in the US. Far far higher than the odds of being mauled by a tiger or being struck by lightning.
In countries where guns are better regulated, you are absolutely correct, the odds of being killed in a mass shooting are almost nonexistent, and way lower than the odds of getting struck by lightning. But I don’t see how this supports your argument.
Your third hand account ancedote whether real or made up does nothing to discredit the tens of thousands of students holding home made signs, giving speeches, marching and petitioning law makers for a cause they clearly believe in.
Last edited:
Kotzen Ducha
Banned
Most "mass shootings" happen in the inner cities.
Avoid that and your odds are more like being struck by lighting whilst being eaten by a tiger.
prag16
Banned
The United States averages ~50 lightning strike deaths per year. The total of school shooting deaths since Sandy Hook has yet to reach 100 total.
Last edited:
Nintendo Switch
Banned
If you are going arbitrarily limit this stat to school shootings instead of mass shootings, you should also limit light strike deaths to lighting strike deaths that occurred on school grounds only.
We have had hundreds of people killed in mass shootings just in the past few months, and thousands in the handful of years since the assault weapons ban expired.
The vegas shooter alone killed more people in a few minutes than lighting strikes kill in a whole year. Same with the pulse night club shooter. Just mass shootings done with AR15s alone far outnumber the number of lightning strike deaths.
Last edited:
Nintendo Switch
Banned
You’re wrong. Try again.
Newtown, Parkland, Columbine, Virginia Tech, Sandy Hook and countless others were not the inner city.
Cities (including Chicago) have lower per capita gun violence deaths than the suburbs and rural areas.
Per capita, red states with lax gun regulations have far far higher gun violence and gun deaths... https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-rates/21/
If your point is that more people die where more people live (in the cities), duh. But if you compare number of deaths as a proportion of the number of people living there, cities are among the safest places to live.
Last edited:
TrainedRage
Banned
Look at all these statistics... Wait, none of them have been backed up by any sort of source. You know what kills more people every year than guns? Sugar. Can we protest sugar please. I feel like no one should ever be allowed to buy sugar.
gioGAF
Member
I think the reason the speech sparked a "revolution" is because of how quickly all of the gun control advocates jumped on it. These gun control children have been plastered all over the media, while children from the same school with different view points are all but unknown to the general public.
I would also like to take the time to say that just because you have experienced a traumatic event in life, you aren't suddenly gifted with expertise on our laws and policies. I agree that some people need to get off their asses and fix the situation, but most of the things these children are saying aren't based on anything but their "feelings". We don't make laws based on people's "feelings". This is basically an opinion piece.
I agree that we need to tighten up the laws around the acquisition of firearms, but I believe this so-called "assault weapon" furor is just hot air from people who are ignorant. The same media that clamors for "assault weapon" bans are the same idiots that do stories on such weapons, in effect glorifying them for the uneducated masses and driving up their sales. The same media that turns any mass shooter into a celebrity then buckles down on gun control.
The media, which has gifted us with gems such as the term "fully semi-automatic", bears some of the responsibility for these shootings, but no one seems to care about that. An "assault weapon" ban would accomplish NOTHING. Anyone who knows anything about firearms knows this. The vast majority of people talking about this are either parrots repeating what they heard or people with a specific agenda.
I GUARANTEE that if "assault weapons" are banned, we will not see a decrease in these atrocities.
Many people refuse to give up a right under our constitution and I don't blame them. This should not be an all or nothing argument. We should be delineating workable solutions. Banning "assault weapons" is not a workable solution, it is actually just another stupid cosmetic nuisance that does nothing but punish non-criminals.
How about raising the age to 21 to purchase any semi-automatic weapon and any ammunition? How about improving response by law enforcement authorities to possible threats (this Florida idiot was reported to local law enforcement over 30 times and to federal authorities at least twice)?
I would also like to take the time to say that just because you have experienced a traumatic event in life, you aren't suddenly gifted with expertise on our laws and policies. I agree that some people need to get off their asses and fix the situation, but most of the things these children are saying aren't based on anything but their "feelings". We don't make laws based on people's "feelings". This is basically an opinion piece.
I agree that we need to tighten up the laws around the acquisition of firearms, but I believe this so-called "assault weapon" furor is just hot air from people who are ignorant. The same media that clamors for "assault weapon" bans are the same idiots that do stories on such weapons, in effect glorifying them for the uneducated masses and driving up their sales. The same media that turns any mass shooter into a celebrity then buckles down on gun control.
The media, which has gifted us with gems such as the term "fully semi-automatic", bears some of the responsibility for these shootings, but no one seems to care about that. An "assault weapon" ban would accomplish NOTHING. Anyone who knows anything about firearms knows this. The vast majority of people talking about this are either parrots repeating what they heard or people with a specific agenda.
I GUARANTEE that if "assault weapons" are banned, we will not see a decrease in these atrocities.
Many people refuse to give up a right under our constitution and I don't blame them. This should not be an all or nothing argument. We should be delineating workable solutions. Banning "assault weapons" is not a workable solution, it is actually just another stupid cosmetic nuisance that does nothing but punish non-criminals.
How about raising the age to 21 to purchase any semi-automatic weapon and any ammunition? How about improving response by law enforcement authorities to possible threats (this Florida idiot was reported to local law enforcement over 30 times and to federal authorities at least twice)?
Last edited:
Nintendo Switch
Banned
Great straw man you have there. Obesity does kill a lot of people and the government should do an even better job of encouraging exercise, but that has absolutely jackshit to do with this topic.
As for stats, here you go... https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/death-by-gun-top-20-states-with-highest-rates/21/
Pretty damning
Nintendo Switch
Banned
Hmm... who sounds like a more reliable source?
CBS sourcing AP
Or
A random forum user named geoGAF not bothering to offer any sourcing
As for your claim about suicides...
John Roman, senior fellow at the Urban Institute, an economic and social policy think tank told USA Today that states with the highest rates of suicide also usually had the strongest culture of gun ownership. "There are many more suicides in places where it's easy to get a gun," he said.
CBS sourcing AP
Or
A random forum user named geoGAF not bothering to offer any sourcing
As for your claim about suicides...
John Roman, senior fellow at the Urban Institute, an economic and social policy think tank told USA Today that states with the highest rates of suicide also usually had the strongest culture of gun ownership. "There are many more suicides in places where it's easy to get a gun," he said.
Last edited:
TrainedRage
Banned
What's most damming is that Alaska never gets talked about. It's only ever Chicago.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked