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[Veelk]

Guys, I'm not here to discuss everyone's ideal definition of a blank slate or to rank characters by their blandness, and neither is the thread. I know some people are getting their blood boiling every time I post (I don't know why) but let's at least try to stay on topic.

THe conversation topic came to be because it was mentioned Samus was a blank slate akin to Link. So the topic became whether either of those characters are truly blank slates, and I've given reasons for why both of them aren't. It's on topic, but if you want to drop the subject, then say that.

 

[Toxi]

He didn't actually insult the Prime games. He said they aren't part of the series' main storyline and that their characterization of Samus is different from how he envisioned her (which is a strange comment because Retro once said he was involved with that specifically, and he told them he saw her as a no-nonsense badass...).

Very interesting to contrast this with Other M.

I ask Tanabe if the fact that Samus is female changed his approach to how she interacted with that world, and he reponds that while they were careful about the way they animated her, it wasn’t specifically because she was female but more that they were reticent to “simply make her feel powerful by using powerful looking or barbaric animations.”

“Through the discussions with Retro,” he says, “we came up with keyword ‘elegant’. She’s beautifully elegant, but also powerful.” Tanabe demonstrates what he means by suddenly grabbing his translator by the collar, pantomiming a hand-gun to the translator’s head, and explains that one of the scenarios they ran through with co-creator Sakamoto is how Samus would react to a Space Pirate taking someone hostage.

“What we heard from him is that she would not yell ‘hold on!’ She wouldn’t show any emotions at all, she’d just bring up her gun and hit the pirate with a head shot.” Tanabe loosens his grip on the surprisingly unfazed translator and brings his fingers in one slow sweep up to his own head, and with a verbal ‘bajoooom‘ fires dead-eye, leaning back in slow motion, his hands showing us the arc and splatter of Space Pirate viscera spilling from the cap of his skull. “She’s very calm, very professional in killing. She doesn’t show any emotions on the surface, but she’s very passionate inside her.”

 

[jholmes]

THe conversation topic came to be because it was mentioned Samus was a blank slate akin to Link. So the topic became whether either of those characters are truly blank slates, and I've given reasons for why both of them aren't. It's on topic, but if you want to drop the subject, then say that.

It's not so much that I want to drop the subject as it's been discussed to death, I disagree with you guys and I don't understand this fervent need to keep trying to engage me on it. I've heard your perspectives and you're entitled to them but I simply don't agree.

I'm running out of ways to say this.

 

[Dice//]

I'm glad for the most part everyone agrees Other M was eye-rolling. I really do wonder what they'll do with the series from here on out though.

 

[Veelk]

It's not so much that I want to drop the subject as it's been discussed to death, I disagree with you guys and I don't understand this fervent need to keep trying to engage me on it. I've heard your perspectives and you're entitled to them but I simply don't agree.

I'm running out of ways to say this.

I see. I just dropped in this party now, so I haven't seen your arguments, but I understand just being tired of explaining.

 

[NathanS]

Well Other M did do a lot wrong i do agree with with this

http://xandermarkham.blogspot.com/2011/08/guilt-gender-and-surrogacy-in-metroid.html

That there's some smart thematic things going on under a very bungled execution.

 

[Astral Dog]

Very interesting to contrast this with Other M.

Well, If we remove all of the terrible monologue from the game, Samus would appear as a very cold , calm character,(except for a few scenes) thats like 80% of the dialogue

Could someone point me in the direction of Sakamoto's quotes where he publicly dissed on Metroid Prime? I really need to see those because I find it super ironic that the man that made the hands down most hated Metroid game in the franchise hated so much on, arguably, the best of the bunch (and the superior 3D one).

He didn't actually insult the Prime games. He said they aren't part of the series' main storyline and that their characterization of Samus is different from how he envisioned her (which is a strange comment because Retro once said he was involved with that specifically, and he told them he saw her as a no-nonsense badass...).

As someone who thinks Sakamoto fucked up pretty hard with Other M, the idea among fans that he actually bashed the Prime games is pretty obnoxious. It's just people looking for something to be bitter about.

Sakamoto did terrible things with Other M, but im not sure if its fair to mock him for "hating" the Prime games either, not including them in the story is not an insult, they were designed as their own sub series even if they ended up being superior to Other M.

 

[K' Dash]

Why would he ignore the Prime games and not include them in the canon? there is no reason at all, he is obviously jealous that this western team took his game and made the best entry and it is on top with Super Metroid.

I don't want him near Metroid ever again, I'm very grateful for Metroid, Return of Samus, Super and Fusion, they're all incredible games but that's it.

Metroid is a franchise that is barely alive since it's conception, the games always sell decently but nothing to write home about, even if they're critically acclaimed. We can NOT survive another cataclism like Other M, it will fucking kill my favorite IP.

 

[Mael]

It's interesting to note the many parallels between Zelda and Metroid.
For all the shit people launch at Nintendo for not making intricate storylines heavy games they managed to form a somewhat coherent timeline including pretty much all Zelda games.
That is including the ones made by Capcom.
Why they felt the need to make sure Other M contradict the Prime game so much (relegating them to the rank of CDi Zelda games as far as timeline goes) when it wouldn't have been hard at all to make some concession to what Retro did is anyone's guess.
Seriously it's not like it would compromise Other M's plot or relevance in any way.
The conclusion we can draw is that anything not directly linked to his stuffs is considered noncanon.
Kinda like Iga with Castlevania where he put everything not done by him (and the 1rst 3-4 games I guess) non canon just because.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

It's interesting to note the many parallels between Zelda and Metroid.
For all the shit people launch at Nintendo for not making intricate storylines heavy games they managed to form a somewhat coherent timeline including pretty much all Zelda games.
That is including the ones made by Capcom.
Why they felt the need to make sure Other M contradict the Prime game so much (relegating them to the rank of CDi Zelda games as far as timeline goes) when it wouldn't have been hard at all to make some concession to what Retro did is anyone's guess.
Seriously it's not like it would compromise Other M's plot or relevance in any way.
The conclusion we can draw is that anything not directly linked to his stuffs is considered noncanon.
Kinda like Iga with Castlevania where he put everything not done by him (and the 1rst 3-4 games I guess) non canon just because.

Sadly keeping them in Sakamoto's timeline would clash being that the Samus of the Prime trilogy can't possibly be the same doormat emotional girl with daddy issues of Other M. He must've known his new Samus would have nothing to do with that one. The fact that Prime ended up being the unanimously superior one didn't help either.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

If you guys want to have an aneurism I invite you to watch IGN's review of Other M. Last time I watched it I hadn't played the game so the shock wasnt there.

I've disagreed with reviews in the past but I don't remember one where I found myself having my head in derision from beginning to end. Seriously, I couldnt believe my ears.

http://youtu.be/2wUpZL8ybkg

 

[Mael]

Sadly keeping them in Sakamoto's timeline would clash being that the Samus of the Prime trilogy can't possibly be the same doormat emotional girl with daddy issues of Other M. He must've known his new Samus would have nothing to do with that one. The fact that Prime ended up being the unanimously superior one didn't help either.

Well at least he's smart about it.
He laid the groundwork with Fusion,
remade Metroid 1 to infuse just what he wanted of the character to reframe the whole series in a way suitable for his infamous masterpiece (seriously Ridley was never that important in Metroid 1).
Other M's Samus is not even compatible with Metroid 1,2 or 3's Samus.
We're lucky we didn't get a remake of Super Metroid instead because you they would try to make you forget SM on SNES even existed.

If you guys want to have an aneurism I invite you to watch IGN's review of Other M. Last time I watched it I hadn't played the game so the shock wasnt there.

I've disagreed with reviews in the past but I don't remember one where I found myself having my head in derision from beginning to end. Seriously, I couldnt believe my ears.

http://youtu.be/2wUpZL8ybkg

IGN was one of the shittiest place to get Wii news.
They hyped the garbage that is the Conduit/2 to high heaven, entirely dismiss interesting stuffs and praise this shitstain of a game.
I'm not surprised that they could get so many things so wrong.
I only had some hearsay before paying full price for that turd.
"it's a little linear but you'll see you'll get the Metroid part at the end and it'll be as good as ever".
That shit was worse than FFXIII, at least the battle system in FFXIII was awesome.
And people ragged on FFXIII for all the faults Other M did way worse.
Remember that Egoraptor vid where he analyzed OoT and tore Skyward Sword a new one?
Every single word uttered in that diatribe is exactly what's wrong with Other M.
It never tried anything new, it's a shit game that's wearing the skin of Metroid to try to pass of as the genuine article.
It's fake, a doppelganger that sucked all the content but didn't even barf the bones to make the whole thing even a little worthwhile.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Other M to me is the fever dream Samus has while undergoing surgery during the time she gets infected with the X parasite.

Nice. Very nice. We now share this headcanon.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I never played the Metroid 1 GBA remake. Mael, could you explain what changes he made to Samus' character in that game that you think were made in preparation for Other M? I'm away that the Zero Suit originated in that remake. Other than that and that I thought that that last bit where you have to sneak as ZSS were the only things they changed from the original. Or so I thought....

And I never realized how much ign sucked for Wii news. I remember that Conduit debacle. But this Other M review, beyond what's just opinion, is borderline factually incorrect on much of it. I mean he calls the game's story good and well acted! It must be the only professional review where they didn't critizice either Samus' depiction or the weapon authorization progression. What a joke!

 

[Astral Dog]

Why would he ignore the Prime games and not include them in the canon? there is no reason at all, he is obviously jealous that this western team took his game and made the best entry and it is on top with Super Metroid.

I don't want him near Metroid ever again, I'm very grateful for Metroid, Return of Samus, Super and Fusion, they're all incredible games but that's it.

Metroid is a franchise that is barely alive since it's conception, the games always sell decently but nothing to write home about, even if they're critically acclaimed. We can NOT survive another cataclism like Other M, it will fucking kill my favorite IP.

Is there a reason why he should reference the Prime games on Other M? Would the story be better if these games were mentioned somewhere?

Metroid Prime is a masterpiece and its events coming after Metroid 1 deserve their place,, but it doesn` t mean Sakamoto hates them if the story of Other M deals with the other games.

The bigger problem is the contradiction to other games and events, the awful monologue, etc. but the Prime games not being mentioned its not an insult, Zero Mission even introduced Meta Ridley..

 

[Not]

Is there a reason why he should reference the Prime games on Other M? Would the story be better if these games were mentioned somewhere?

Metroid Prime is a masterpiece and its events coming after Metroid 1 deserve their place,, but it doesnt mean Sakamoto hates them if the story of Other M deals with the other games.

The bigger problem is the contradiction to other games and events, the awful monologue, etc. but not the Prime games not being mentioned its not an insult, Zero Mission even introduced Meta Ridley..

Can you prove to me that Sakamoto doesn't hate them?

 

[Astral Dog]

Can you prove to me that Sakamoto doesn't hate them?

well, no besides him supervising the Prime games, but is there any proof that he "hates" them?
edit: i would have to check some interviews then.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Is there a reason why he should reference the Prime games on Other M? Would the story be better if these games were mentioned somewhere?

Metroid Prime is a masterpiece and its events coming after Metroid 1 deserve their place,, but it doesnt mean Sakamoto hates them if the story of Other M deals with the other games.

The bigger problem is the contradiction to other games and events, the awful monologue, etc. but not the Prime games not being mentioned its not an insult, Zero Mission even introduced Meta Ridley..

I guess the insult is that he went out of his way to ignore the Prime games just so he could assassinate Samus' personality while minimizing conflict with past games (not that he succeeded much there either)! And what a surprise that the only games he ignored from the timeline are the ones done out of Japan without direct input from him!

 

[Astral Dog]

I guess the insult is that he went out of his way to ignore the Prime games just so he could assassinate Samus' personality while minimizing conflict with past games (not that he succeeded much there either)! And what a surprise that the only games he ignored from the timeline are the ones done out of Japan without direct input from him!

He also ruined his own manga, and Fusion, but that doesn t mean he hates them.
many things went wrong with Other M, but i don` t have a reason yet to believe that he hates the prime games, and thats why he didn`t included them on the story of Other M.

Its all speculation at this point.

 

[Mael]

I never played the Metroid 1 GBA remake. Could you explain what changes he made to Samus' character in that game that you think were made in preparation for Other M? I'm away that the Zero Suit originated in that remake. Other than that and that I thought that that last bit where you have to sneak as ZSS were the only things they changed from the original. Or so I thought....

By itself the ZS is fairly harmless, now with Other M we know that it was introduced for more than just Zero Mission (after all it would serve no purpose in Fusion except for the usual endgame fanservice).
If you ask me ZM Metroid 1 made Super Metroid from a design standpoint utterly pointless.
Super Metroid had the fake Kraid just before with the reveal that Kraid was in fact much, much larger than Metroid lead to believe. Plenty of neat callback in Super Metroid to Metroid 1 were made pointless that way.
The game is also overly handholdy, features pointless cutscenes (whose style are however quite cool).
The whole chain of command of the space pirates is pointlessly changed (eternal question : who's at the top? Mother Brain? Ridley? Metroid 1 & 3 => Mother Brain, Zero Mission => Ridley).
It's the worst remake ever but fairly pointless (after all Super Metroid IS Metroid 1 supercharged)

And I never realized how much ign sucked for Wii news. I remember that Conduit debacle. But this Other M review, beyond what's just opinion, is borderline factually incorrect on much of it. I mean he calls the game's story good and well acted! It must be the only professional review where they didn't critizice either Samus' depiction or the weapon authorization progression. What a joke!

Basically Ign was the PR arm of High Voltage Software and seemingly no one cared (and people say that there's an ethic problem NOW...).
In their various podcasts they also shat unceremoniously on Wii owners for no reason at all. Basically Pachter was a better source of info than Ign and that's saying something.

Is there a reason why he should reference the Prime games on Other M? Would the story be better if these games were mentioned somewhere?

Metroid Prime is a masterpiece and its events coming after Metroid 1 deserve their place,, but it doesn` t mean Sakamoto hates them if the story of Other M deals with the other games.

The bigger problem is the contradiction to other games and events, the awful monologue, etc. but the Prime games not being mentioned its not an insult, Zero Mission even introduced Meta Ridley..

There's really no reason why he should reference them and I don't think anyone asked for that.
However what we expected wasn't a methodical exercice to make sure that the Prime games and Other M could coexist in the same canon.

 

[Astral Dog]

Well im sure he dislikes the way the story was presented on the Primes, with Samus not speaking any lines. after reading a few quotes.
hmm, still doesn`t mean much but there is that.

 

[Mak]

The last boss of Zero Mission is actually a robot made in the image of Ridley that's unfinished. http://www.metroid-database.com/features/faq2.php#stage02
In Metroid Prime, Meta-Ridley is a revived Ridley from Metroid 1 with cybernetic enhancements.

Metroid: Zero Mission's Japanese website and manual did include a timeline though
http://metroid.jp/metroid_version2/history/index.html
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wiiu/software/vc/pawj/man_PAWJ_00.pdf

As did Metroid Prime/Metroid Fusion
http://metroid.jp/metroid_version1/chronicle/index.html

Could someone point me in the direction of Sakamoto's quotes where he publicly dissed on Metroid Prime? I really need to see those because I find it super ironic that the man that made the hands down most hated Metroid game in the franchise hated so much on, arguably, the best of the bunch (and the superior 3D one).

He didn't actually insult the Prime games. He said they aren't part of the series' main storyline and that their characterization of Samus is different from how he envisioned her (which is a strange comment because Retro once said he was involved with that specifically, and he told them he saw her as a no-nonsense badass...).

As someone who thinks Sakamoto fucked up pretty hard with Other M, the idea among fans that he actually bashed the Prime games is pretty obnoxious. It's just people looking for something to be bitter about.

Generally when Sakamoto is asked about the Prime series he mentions how he respects the work of the staff at Retro, mentions he only had a supervisory role on the Prime games, reiterates that he's is responsible for the NES, SNES, and GBA games, and that the games he's worked on and Retro has worked on differ. He's never stated he hates the Metroid Prime series.

Ctrl+F "Prime" - If I missed an interview, please link it.

http://www.metroid-database.com/features/nomsakamoto.php
http://web.archive.org/web/20121025...sive-metroid-designer-yoshio-sakamoto-speaks/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/06/04/e3-2009-metroid-other-m-heavy-on-action-and-story?page=1
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132721/the_elegance_of_metroid_yoshio_.php
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/metroid-other-m-yoshio-sakamoto-interview/2300-6276545/
http://www.wired.com/2009/06/metroid-interview/
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/12/interview-metroid-other-m-producer-yoshio-sakamoto/
http://www.metroid-database.com/features/mp&mf_int3.php

 

[Mael]

Well im sure he dislikes the way the story was presented on the Primes, with Samus not speaking any lines. after reading a few quotes.
hmm, still doesn`t mean much but there is that.

I don't think people at EAD like what OoT did to the timeline that much either (considering the number of games set before Oot so as not to deal with the game did to the timeline) that doesn't mean people wouldn't cry foul if Skyward made it so that OoT could never happen.
Heck that's pretty much how the failed timeline exist in the 1rst place :
A bunch of games they really didn't want to be tied to for their other projects.
It shouldn't have been so hard to make sure it's not wildly inconsistent without mentioning it at all.

Heck that's pretty much what they tried to do with "Samus being raised by Chozo" plot point

The last boss of Zero Mission is actually a robot made in the image of Ridley that's unfinished. http://www.metroid-database.com/features/faq2.php#stage02
In Metroid Prime, Meta-Ridley is a revived Ridley from Metroid 1 with cybernetic enhancements.

Metroid: Zero Mission's Japanese website and manual did include a timeline though
http://metroid.jp/metroid_version2/history/index.html

As did Metroid Prime/Metroid Fusion
http://metroid.jp/metroid_version1/chronicle/index.html

And?

Generally when Sakamoto is asked about the Prime series he mentions how he respects the work of the staff at Retro, mentions he only had a supervisory role on the Prime games, reiterates that he's is responsible for the NES, SNES, and GBA games, and that the games he's worked on and Retro has worked on differ. He's never stated he hates the Metroid Prime series.

Ctrl+F "Prime" - If I missed an interview, please link it.

http://www.metroid-database.com/features/nomsakamoto.php
http://web.archive.org/web/20121025...sive-metroid-designer-yoshio-sakamoto-speaks/
http://www.ign.com/articles/2009/06/04/e3-2009-metroid-other-m-heavy-on-action-and-story?page=1
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132721/the_elegance_of_metroid_yoshio_.php
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/metroid-other-m-yoshio-sakamoto-interview/2300-6276545/
http://www.wired.com/2009/06/metroid-interview/
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/03/12/interview-metroid-other-m-producer-yoshio-sakamoto/
http://www.metroid-database.com/features/mp&mf_int3.php

That's pretty much the polite way of saying "stop asking me about these games, I want to talk about something else".
While it doesn't denote any negative sentiment toward them, his handling of Other M is clear in his disdain for Retro's work on the franchise.

 

[Verger]

The only thing I can hope for is that Other M still sold less than any of the Prime games (and scored lower critically as well).

In the end Nintendo cares about the bottom line (money) and if they wish to continue Metroid they should be looking at Retro's attempts which made more money and how to capitalize on that better.

Put it back in the hands of Michael Kelbough and Kensuke Tanabe and get it away from Sakamoto.

 

[Astral Dog]

Im sure if Other M was well recieved we would know about an "Other M 2" by now, Nintendo knows it, Sakamoto is working on other games, Retro was busy with Tropical Freeze, Other M is only shown on Smash out of respect.

But i would not worry, if there is a new Metroid game it won` t have anything to do with Other M, i guess even Hyrule Warriors could be a replacement for it, if there were even plans of continuing it.

Metroid needed a rest, after Other M and Hunters, the question is how long...

 

[Mael]

The only thing I can hope for is that Other M still sold less than any of the Prime games (and scored lower critically as well).

In the end Nintendo cares about the bottom line (money) and if they wish to continue Metroid they should be looking at Retro's attempts which made more money and how to capitalize on that better.

Put it back in the hands of Michael Kelbough and Kensuke Tanabe and get it away from Sakamoto.

We have the data :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

Metroid on NES : 2,73M
Super Metroid on SNES : 1,42M
Metroid Prime on GC : 2,78M
Metroid Prime 2 on GC : 1,10M
Metroid Prime 3 on Wii : 1,41M
Metroid 2 on GB : 1,72M
Metroid Fusion on GBA : 1,60M
Metroid Prime Hunters : 1,08M
(side note I'm fairly sure First Hunt sold way more since it was with the 1rst batch of DS)

I really doubt that Zero Mission sold less than Other M.
So yeah aside from Metroid Prime Pinball for which I have no data :
Metroid Other M is the worst selling Metroid Game (oh and Nintendo Land sold evidently more so more people probably played Metroid Blast than Other M too).
And seeing the reaction of Nintendo to Other M's performance, it might be the worst selling Metroid game by a huge margin too.

Literally there's no metric on which Other M performed better than any of the Prime games (of the other main games too for that matter).

 

[Astral Dog]

We have the data :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

Metroid on NES : 2,73M
Super Metroid on SNES : 1,42M
Metroid Prime on GC : 2,78M
Metroid Prime 2 on GC : 1,10M
Metroid Prime 3 on Wii : 1,41M
Metroid 2 on GB : 1,72M
Metroid Fusion on GBA : 1,60M
Metroid Prime Hunters : 1,08M
(side note I'm fairly sure First Hunt sold way more since it was with the 1rst batch of DS)

I really doubt that Zero Mission sold less than Other M.
So yeah aside from Metroid Prime Pinball for which I have no data :
Metroid Other M is the worst selling Metroid Game (oh and Nintendo Land sold evidently more so more people probably played Metroid Blast than Other M too).
And seeing the reaction of Nintendo to Other M's performance, it might be the worst selling Metroid game by a huge margin too.

Literally there's no metric on which Other M performed better than any of the Prime games (of the other main games too for that matter).

And its not only sales, i can see Nintendo funding another if Other M was better recieved among fans and critics, while Retro worked on Donkey Kong, this not a case of Nintendo refusing to fund a niche game, Other M actually hurted the franchise and thats why they are more careful, for now there is no doubt another M is not going to happen, Nintendo won` t take another risk like that , they will be more safe and give it to Retro some day.

 

[Mael]

And its not only sales, i can see Nintendo funding another if Other M was better recieved among fans and critics, while Retro worked on Donkey Kong, this not a case of Nintendo refusing to fund a niche game, Other M actually hurted the franchise and thats why they are more careful, for now there is no doubt another M is not going to happen, Nintendo won` t take another risk like that , they will be more safe and give it to Retro some day.

Indeed there was an idea floating around that would have prevented this from happening :
they should have released another DS game at the same time as Other M to mitigate the risk like they did for Prime/Fusion.
That way even if one of them sucked, the other would have satisfied the fans (and the market).
Looking back Prime/Fusion was a really great way to have Metroid come back.

 

[Astral Dog]

Indeed there was an idea floating around that would have prevented this from happening :
they should have released another DS game at the same time as Other M to mitigate the risk like they did for Prime/Fusion.
That way even if one of them sucked, the other would have satisfied the fans (and the market).
Looking back Prime/Fusion was a really great way to have Metroid come back.

Yeah Prime and Fusion were amazing.
In fact i was so shocked with Prime that i completely forgot that a handheld Metroid game even existed for weeks, bought it later and it became one of my favorite portable games

With Other M...well its been five years, there is a reason we haven`t heard of it.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Anyone has the final tally of Other M sales? I honestly don't know if it ended up selling more than Prime 2 or 3 but I'm positive there's no way it outsold Prime 1. I'm assuming it didn't surpass either since Nintendo publicly admitted Other M performed under their expectations.

If Other M indeed didn't manage to outsell any of the Primes considering how colossal the Wii's installed base was in 2010 compared to whatever the Gamecube pushed back in 2002 (MP1) and 2004 (MP2) and the infancy of the Wii back in 2007 (MP3) I can assure you Nintendo internally catalogued M:OM as a failure.

And if that's the case then good riddance.

 

[Mael]

Anyone has the final tally of Other M sales? I honestly don't know if it ended up selling more than Prime 2 or 3 but I'm positive there's no way it outsold Prime 1. I'm assuming it didn't surpass either since Nintendo publicly admitted Other M performed under their expectations.

If Other M indeed didn't manage to outsell any of the Primes considering how colossal the Wii's installed base was in 2010 compared to whatever the Gamecube pushed back in 2002 (MP1) and 2004 (MP2) and the infancy of the Wii back in 2007 (MP3) I can assure you Nintendo internally catalogued M:OM as a failure.

And if that's the case then good riddance.

Oh come on, I just gave the data straight from Nintendo!
All the Prime games (bar Pinball) sold more than 1M and Other M did not.
The case is closed on that one.

We have the data :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

Metroid on NES : 2,73M
Super Metroid on SNES : 1,42M
Metroid Prime on GC : 2,78M
Metroid Prime 2 on GC : 1,10M
Metroid Prime 3 on Wii : 1,41M
Metroid 2 on GB : 1,72M
Metroid Fusion on GBA : 1,60M
Metroid Prime Hunters : 1,08M
(side note I'm fairly sure First Hunt sold way more since it was with the 1rst batch of DS)

I really doubt that Zero Mission sold less than Other M.
So yeah aside from Metroid Prime Pinball for which I have no data :
Metroid Other M is the worst selling Metroid Game (oh and Nintendo Land sold evidently more so more people probably played Metroid Blast than Other M too).
And seeing the reaction of Nintendo to Other M's performance, it might be the worst selling Metroid game by a huge margin too.

Literally there's no metric on which Other M performed better than any of the Prime games (of the other main games too for that matter).

 

[Astral Dog]

Anyone has the final tally of Other M sales? I honestly don't know if it ended up selling more than Prime 2 or 3 but I'm positive there's no way it outsold Prime 1. I'm assuming it didn't surpass either since Nintendo publicly admitted Other M performed under their expectations.

If Other M indeed didn't manage to outsell any of the Primes considering how colossal the Wii's installed base was in 2010 compared to whatever the Gamecube pushed back in 2002 (MP1) and 2004 (MP2) and the infancy of the Wii back in 2007 (MP3) I can assure you Nintendo internally catalogued M:OM as a failure.

And if that's the case then good riddance.

I think you said that Other M killed the series on this thread, that reminds me of something.

just think about it, if Other M didn't "killed" the series, we would have

Spoiler

Other M 2 now!

Its one thing to be concerned about the future of the series, i love Metroid but the series needed a rest,after Hunters and Corruption Metroid Prime needed a break, Retro could not be the Metroid Prime developers always.

Then Nintendo gave a chance to Sakamoto, in a way im glad Other M was made, because Nintendo tried to do something different with the series while Retro was on DKC, give it to the person that made Super and Fusion to make an action packed, story driven game, of course now we know that Sakamoto is a total lunatic and doesn't deserve another chance on the series, not only story but gameplay design he isn't very good either, at least on 3D games.

And Other M is a perfect example of how to ruin an established character with dialogue,this is just unfortunate, Other M was a big dissapointment but i still don't believe the game was made out of malice or spite of the Prime games, it was just a very flawed vision,in the end i really would have liked for Other M to be good, the game had potential, its something we can learn from.

Now? its been five years and maybe its time for another Metroid game, Retro hopefully has a lot of fresh ideas if they decide to return to the series, also, Tropical Freeze is a game that gets some unnecessary hate and bashing for not being Metroid, unfortunately.

 

[Verger]

We have the data :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=963700

Metroid on NES : 2,73M
Super Metroid on SNES : 1,42M
Metroid Prime on GC : 2,78M
Metroid Prime 2 on GC : 1,10M
Metroid Prime 3 on Wii : 1,41M
Metroid 2 on GB : 1,72M
Metroid Fusion on GBA : 1,60M
Metroid Prime Hunters : 1,08M
(side note I'm fairly sure First Hunt sold way more since it was with the 1rst batch of DS)

I really doubt that Zero Mission sold less than Other M.
So yeah aside from Metroid Prime Pinball for which I have no data :
Metroid Other M is the worst selling Metroid Game (oh and Nintendo Land sold evidently more so more people probably played Metroid Blast than Other M too).
And seeing the reaction of Nintendo to Other M's performance, it might be the worst selling Metroid game by a huge margin too.

Literally there's no metric on which Other M performed better than any of the Prime games (of the other main games too for that matter).

So the first Metroid Prime is in fact the best-selling Metroid title in the franchise? That's a pretty neat tidbit and should be yet another sign to Nintendo in terms of what direction they should take.

Of course money isn't what should be the deciding factor in how to pursue a business, otherwise Nintendo would be deciding to kill Donkey Kong Country Returns after the depressingly dismal sales of Tropical Freeze (and we all know that product is superb). But still, in addition to the lack of sales, Other M also had major problems in critical acclaim when compared to the Prime games.

Speaking of returning Prime to Retro. What would be the best way for them to go about it?


I mean in terms of Retro being able to create a financially successful entry? Given the sales, I'd assume that Prime 1 is the only one that was financially successful. Echoes was sadly a sales disappointment comparingly, and Corruption's sales for some reason didn't take off.

First, I don't think they should call it Metroid Prime "4". Heck depending on how things go they should maybe drop the "Prime" completely (

Spoiler

Which will work since Metroid Prime/Dark Samus/Phazon should be dead and gone for good

). I think maybe Metroid Prime 3 didn't do so well because it was "3" and people didn't want to pick it up who either missed/didn't play 2 or even 1.

Second, I think they should definitely avoid releasing on the Wii U. I love the Wii U in terms of the games that are on it, but sales-wise it is a disaster and a financial super risk to develop something for it. I wouldn't want to see Retro making something that has even more potential to not sell well.

 

[Astral Dog]

So the first Metroid Prime is in fact the best-selling Metroid title in the franchise? That's a pretty neat tidbit and should be yet another sign to Nintendo in terms of what direction they should take.

Of course money isn't what should be the deciding factor in how to pursue a business, otherwise Nintendo would be deciding to kill Donkey Kong Country Returns after the depressingly dismal sales of Tropical Freeze (and we all know that product is superb). But still, in addition to the lack of sales, Other M also had major problems in critical acclaim when compared to the Prime games.

Speaking of returning Prime to Retro. What would be the best way for them to go about it?


I mean in terms of Retro being able to create a financially successful entry? Given the sales, I'd assume that Prime 1 is the only one that was financially successful. Echoes was sadly a sales disappointment comparingly, and Corruption's sales for some reason didn't take off.

First, I don't think they should call it Metroid Prime "4". Heck depending on how things go they should maybe drop the "Prime" completely (

Spoiler

Which will work since Metroid Prime/Dark Samus/Phazon should be dead and gone for good

). I think maybe Metroid Prime 3 didn't do so well because it was "3" and people didn't want to pick it up who either missed/didn't play 2 or even 1.

Second, I think they should definitely avoid releasing on the Wii U. I love the Wii U in terms of the games that are on it, but sales-wise it is a disaster and a financial super risk to develop something for it. I wouldn't want to see Retro making something that has even more potential to not sell well.

Who knows, but i would like something that is not just "Prime 4" too, maybe Retro can apply what they learned from working with DKC on Metroid in some way, and implement intersting new features.

 

[jimi_dini]

If you guys want to have an aneurism I invite you to watch IGN's review of Other M. Last time I watched it I hadn't played the game so the shock wasnt there.

I've disagreed with reviews in the past but I don't remember one where I found myself having my head in derision from beginning to end. Seriously, I couldnt believe my ears.

http://youtu.be/2wUpZL8ybkg

"engaging script, that's well acted and it really pours emotion into Samus's personality"

So IGN was either paid off and simply read PR material out loud ... or the reviewer is insane. Maybe both. I guess they forgot to also call it a "Oscar-caliber drama".

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I think you said that Other M killed the series on this thread, that reminds me of something.

just think about it, if Other M didn't "killed" the series, we would have

Spoiler

Other M 2 now!

Its one thing to be concerned about the future of the series, i love Metroid but the series needed a rest,after Hunters and Corruption Metroid Prime needed a break, Retro could not be the Metroid Prime developers always.

Then Nintendo gave a chance to Sakamoto, in a way im glad Other M was made, because Nintendo tried to do something different with the series while Retro was on DKC, give it to the person that made Super and Fusion to make an action packed, story driven game, of course now we know that Sakamoto is a total lunatic and doesn't deserve another chance on the series, not only story but gameplay design he isn't very good either, at least on 3D games.

And Other M is a perfect example of how to ruin an established character with dialogue,this is just unfortunate, Other M was a big dissapointment but i still don't believe the game was made out of malice or spite of the Prime games, it was just a very flawed vision,in the end i really would have liked for Other M to be good, the game had potential, its something we can learn from.

Now? its been five years and maybe its time for another Metroid game, Retro hopefully has a lot of fresh ideas if they decide to return to the series, also, Tropical Freeze is a game that gets some unnecessary hate and bashing for not being Metroid, unfortunately.

I guess I never thought about it like that but you're right. Although in theory it shouldn't have to take one game this bad in a franchise for a company to know they should've never gone down that road.

It still scares me that Nintendo won't have the valor to ever write Other M out of canon (hey, if they could do it for Prime they sure as hell can for the inferior M:OM) or reboot the series. Other M made such an effort to be set smack dab in the middle of the established canon that I'm afraid they might stick with this version of Samus' personality, which is an aberration already as is.

But you're right. Metroid needed a rest. I just wished said rest didnt have to happen because a bad game killed the momentum. I do find solace now knowing that MP1 is still the best selling Metroid game of all time and that the audience responded accordingly to the subpar Other M.

I want to make one thing clear: I don't necessarily want a Prime 4. I don't even need the next Metroid to be made by Retro. I just want Nintendo to revive the franchise and this time give it the game we deserve while ignoring Other M ever happened as far as canon goes.