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[balladofwindfishes]

Uh... it's a death trap because it's populated with unfreezable metroids that can't be killed by any of Samus' weapons. To make it a level that you could win they'd have to get rid of the unfreezable metroids, but they're the entire point of the sector. The only way to kill them is to cause the sector to self destruct. I mean, they could have made it a level, but it wasn't meant to be a level so I don't see why you're upset... It exists entirely as a reason for Adam to sacrifice himself. It's not like the final boss and leader behind the whole incident was in there.

I don't understand. In what Metroid universe does "unbeatable, you can't win, keep out!" ever mean anything to Samus? Like, at all? Except Other M, where it's just so glaringly out of place, not just for a Metroid game, but just for a game in general (an NPC beating the final level of the game is a very apt description).

Note that, story wise, the next game in the series has her going against a monster-like clone of herself that is entirely unbeatable by her. We experience this. It's done well. Samus can't win, only weaken it. It adds tension, Samus has to do what she's doing while working around this unstoppable force, and she has to figure out how to stop, the unstoppable force. ADAM might say "wait Samus, SA-X is too strong, you can't go in there" but Samus only takes this as a warning and we, as a player, we get to experience this danger. In Other M, we're told these Metroids are super powerful immortal beasts, and yet we never see any of them. There's no Metroid in Other M that they describe as immortal. Hilariously, the Metroid in this cutscene WAS weak to cold, and they even point this out in the cutscene and hand wave it away. We never get to experience this danger. The joy and thrill of finding it out on our own, or experiencing the tension of having to dodge and evade an unstoppable force is robbed from us.

Or another Metroid. When Samus goes to the impact crater in Prime, she doesn't know what Metroid Prime's weakness is. She doesn't even know if Metroid Prime has a weakness. It was only through careful observation and skill, she (and we as players) learn that she can be overloaded with Phazon.

In a real Metroid game, it would have been Samus that stopped Adam from going into Sector Zero. Samus would have went into Sector Zero, and we would have played a cool sequence, where we had to evade Metroids that can't be killed. Imagine having to find morph ball tunnels to hide, plenty of jump scares waiting to happen. Samus would have pulled the self destruct lever. Queen Metroid would have appeared and we would have fought her in this cool simulation of her den, with a timer putting pressure on us. Then we'd have to escape with the timer, and the game would end. Samus saves Adam and the Galaxy.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Metroid: Other M - The Elephant in the Room

Excellent analysis of the game and the script, the characters and their interactions. A must read imo.

Re-reading this, and the Sakamoto quotes within, it's impossible to ignore the idea that Other M Samus's characterization was a direct reaction to her independent, stoic portrayal in the Prime games. Sakamoto seems to have actively disliked that version of the character.

Well, Nintendo has at least one option that could make up for Other M: Give the series back to Retro and make the Prime games canon, while shutting Sakamoto out of the creative process entirely.

That said, expecting a Japanese company to make a move against sexism is... well, you know.

I always pictures Samus being closer to Major Motoko's personality (from Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex TV series). Instead we got a doormat I-hope-senpai-notices-me weak character with daddy issues and low self esteem.

Even Makoto suffered from exploitation in the manga, which portrayed her as a bisexual (if a technically genderless cyborg can have an orientation) cyber-pornstar who touches herself to validate her human identity. And because the mangaka thought it was hawt.

SAC did a better job with her, if I recall correctly.

 

[Ushojax]

What's scary is that the portrayal of Samus is, according to Sakamoto, more accurate than the one in the Prime games:

Depicting the story of Samus Aran in this game was one of the most important game design concepts from the very beginning because before Other M I did not think about what kind of person Samus Aran was and how she thinks and her personality….Plus because of the existence of the Metroid Prime series many people might have different ideas about what kind of person Samus Aran was….So with Other M I really wanted to determine and express what kind of human Samus Aran is so that we can really tell what kind of natural step she should be taking in the future.

No surprise that Nintendo put the franchise on ice for a while, I'm sure they are trying very hard to make sure that Sakamoto does not have any real input going forward. Thankfully nothing of any consequence happens in Other M so it can easily be expunged from the Metroid canon.

 

[Toxi]

I think we should be able to evaluate the quality of the story without a "but in Japan this may be fine" refrain because Japanese videogames have depicted strength, loyalty and relationships before, and quite often did it better. Other M is just bad and the writing is trash. That's all there is to it. No particular cultural misunderstanding.

.

 

[Griss]

What's scary is that the portrayal of Samus is, according to Sakamoto, more accurate than the one in the Prime games:



No surprise that Nintendo put the franchise on ice for a while, I'm sure they are trying very hard to make sure that Sakamoto does not have any real input going forward. Thankfully nothing of any consequence happens in Other M so it can easily be expunged from the Metroid canon.

This quote is actually very, very reassuring to me. Because he says that before Other M he had never considered what kind of person Samus was, which means she wasn't always secretly a simpering moron. She was just awesome by accident, which is fine by me. It also means that a quick incision to remove the Other M tumour and the franchise would be fixed again.

I'd be far more disgusted if he'd said, 'She was always this way, I have the design docs to prove it, and you've been reading her wrong all these years.'

 

[Mael]

Actually, come to think of it, it's been like that since Super Metroid. When Samus dies in that game her power suit goes away. But to answer your question:

http://www.metroid-database.com/features/faq.php

Q: Why does her suit come off when Samus is escaping inside her spaceship?

Sakamoto: For Samus's suit to appear, considerable powers of concentration are necessary. In short, it was too constraining. It's the same as a salary man loosening his necktie when returning from a business trip on the bullet train.

Q: Isn't Samus's powered suit integrated with her whole body? After you destroy Mother Brain, and on the way back pursued by space pirates, Zebes is falling apart. Why does she lose her suit when it should be integrated with her. That's my first question. Thank you very much!

Sakamoto: For Samus to remain connected with the Power Suit requires mental energy unfathomable to an ordinary person. In situations like this when she is under pressure, indeed, even Samus is unable to concentrate her mental energy. However, when Samus completes the trial of the spirit of the mural (God of War), she regains her strong force of will and can successfully integrate with the Legendary Power Suit.

What the fuck? How is that necessary at all?
What does it achieve?
Did they really have no idea what their franchise achieved and represented?
This is the kind of information that could have been conveyed in manuals or in game as far as Metroid II!
But no! This comes out of the blue to justify an asinine scenario that could have perfectly worked without it.
I know I've been hard on game writing and all, but this is actually the 2nd worst I've ever seen.
They have no idea what they are doing.

And thanks for the shitty explanation :

Q:Though there are many secrets in the Metroid series, my instant thought is why is Ridley preserved in the freezing chamber? What was the Galactic Federation planning to do with him?

A :For the time being, I don't know. Maybe it will be revealed in the near future?

And you better expect more SR388 in the future!

Q: In Metroid Fusion's final scene, how was Planet SR388 completely destroyed?

A: Let's see. An incredible antimatter bomb! (I really don't know...)

 

[LSauchelli]

They didn't just turn Ridley into a Pokémon, in a way I think they tried to have him act like the Xenomorph from the original Alien, it was a nice idea, but it lacked in execution.

I wonder, if they did a remaster where Samus doesn't need a command to let her use the suit's capabilities to not die, how much would it improve?

They'd also need to resolve the "Deleter" thing, or have them say "there was no Deleter, it was Ridley, ooops".

And Samus' inner monologue needed a lot of work.

The gameplay itself is fine, IMO.

 

[Mael]

They didn't just turn Ridley into a Pokémon, in a way I think they tried to have him act like the Xenomorph from the original Alien, it was a nice idea, but it lacked in execution.

I wonder, if they did a remaster where Samus doesn't need a command to let her use the suit's capabilities to not die, how much would it improve?

They'd also need to resolve the "Deleter" thing, or have them say "there was no Deleter, it was Ridley, ooops".

And Samus' inner monologue needed a lot of work.

The gameplay itself is fine, IMO.

This game is like Sonic 06, there's no point in a remaster at all.
It would need such an extensive rework that it would be better to forget it even happened and do something else.
Heck there's a boss fight with the Deleter!
That was Ridley too?
The narrative is so interwoven into the game that you can't change the story without changing the game.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

The gameplay is not "fine". There are elements of it which show potential, but the game ultimately devolves into mashing the D-pad as much as possible. It is effectively impossible to get hit with very little skill required.

 

[mantidor]

In a real Metroid game, it would have been Samus that stopped Adam from going into Sector Zero. Samus would have went into Sector Zero, and we would have played a cool sequence, where we had to evade Metroids that can't be killed. Imagine having to find morph ball tunnels to hide, plenty of jump scares waiting to happen. Samus would have pulled the self destruct lever. Queen Metroid would have appeared and we would have fought her in this cool simulation of her den, with a timer putting pressure on us. Then we'd have to escape with the timer, and the game would end. Samus saves Adam and the Galaxy.

Uurgh now I want to play this game.

 

[Soph]

Didn't Sakamoto regard the game as not being a succes based on "the crowd not wanting to play as a female character" or am I making things up now?

 

[Toxi]

Didn't Sakamoto regard the game as not being a succes based on "the crowd not wanting to play as a female character" or am I making things up now?

That was a P4Gaming joke article. The website's satire; think The Onion.

 

[Mael]

Didn't Sakamoto regard the game as not being a succes based on "the crowd not wanting to play as a female character" or am I making things up now?

Looking at the quotes from Sakamoto in this thread, it's a very real possibility.

That was a P4Gaming article. The website's satire; think The Onion.

I'm calling poe's law on this one.

 

[Soph]

That was a P4Gaming joke article. The website's satire; think The Onion.

Sometimes those joke stories seem to leave snippets of information in my brain, funny part is that it wouldn't even seem that weird for him to say. Which doesn't help the situation.

Good to know it's satire though

 

[televator]

Metroid: Other M - The Elephant in the Room

Excellent analysis of the game and the script, the characters and their interactions. A must read imo.

This is great. It really builds the case well for what I always called the sadomasochistic relationship in the game. In fact, with the exact way the sequence of events played out in the story I bet Sakamoto in his head really wanted to have Samus begging Adam to hurt her more for slightly breaking away from his dominance. It just would have been to lewd to show in a Nintendo game.

 

[Akzel]

I loved that Metroid and even if a lot of peoples are telling me I'm wrong, it's only my opinion. I played all Metroid games and pretty enjoyed all of them and that one made me feel like the old time in some way.

 

[MrBadger]

I'm sick of talking about the Ridley scene but I always felt like Samus's reaction should be the opposite of fear considering

-That wasn't the real Ridley
-Ridley is ultimately unimportant to the plot
-This Ridley doesn't have any history with Samus
-She already knows there are clones of her enemies everywhere and has met adolescent Ridley twice
-The real Ridley is dead and has been killed by Samus several times

It really feels like Samus should have been completely indifferent to seeing this Ridley. I know I certainly was. The scene was just Sakamoto trying to tie the events of the comic into the game. He did it poorly.

 

[Mael]

I'm sick of talking about the Ridley scene but I always felt like Samus's reaction should be the opposite of fear considering

-That wasn't the real Ridley
-Ridley is ultimately unimportant to the plot
-This Ridley doesn't have any history with Samus
-She already knows there are clones of her enemies everywhere and has met adolescent Ridley twice
-The real Ridley is dead and has been killed by Samus several times

It really feels like Samus should have been completely indifferent to seeing this Ridley. I know I certainly was. The scene was just Sakamoto trying to tie the events of the comic into the game. He did it poorly.

That's the important part, it doesn't work and is pretty much unecessary, the game would have been better without it.
I mean there's nothing of value that this sequence bring.
One could make the same judgement toward the whole game, I certainly would.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

This discussion is just going around in circles at this point.

I vote that, instead of dwelling on Samus's garbage relationship with Sakamoto's awful Gary Stu, we instead celebrate her newfound happiness with a man who actually seems like a natural fit for her pre-Other M self.

So, in addition to Retro doing serious Samus better than Sakamoto, we can now say that Sakurai gave Samus a more compelling romance option from a 10-second clip than Other M did in like 10 hours.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I don't suppose I could, but a) I don't know that I could find another series where what was once a blank slate of a character is suddenly given reams of dialogue, and b) that also doesn't happen in Other M -- Samus certainly isn't "literally reduced to being a crying child" and I'd say it's hyperbolic to say she's figuratively reduced to a crying child, for that matter.

So again, this is where my problem is: if Samus is a woman, and if she's terrified by the apperance a monster who destroyed her life as a child (a monster she still fights, by the way), and she feels responsible for the baby, she isn't tough. That's reductive and that sort of argument that leads to the sort of hulking, featureless protagonists we see in so many video games.

Is it stupid that she doesn't kill him? Sure, but that's not really what we're discussing, is it?

Much the same is Samus. Samus only does what we do. To give her a personality, even one someone might dislike, is necessary in a game like Other M.

Does that mean they should've done that? No, not necessarily, but it was a neat idea.

To all those saying Samus was a complete blank slate of a character I referr to you to this Extra Credits video. Specifically go to 7:15 to see why many of us think that argument is wrong. My opinion is that just because a character doesn't speak does it make her a blank slate. And even then Samus has spoken (via written text) in Super Metroid and Fusion before Other M.

Please watch.
http://youtu.be/RqFm1ei6mjo

 

[Alex_Mexico]

I feel like the elephant in the room with Other M has always been the creepy idea that Adam is a self-insert for Sakamoto himself.

Samus has become to Sakamoto what Lightning is to Toriyama, a weird fictional pseudo-daughter that he also sort of wants to bone. The personality trait similarities between Lightning and Other M Samus are also pretty striking, and I honestly wonder if this is what passes for a strong female character in Japan's super-demeaning creative environment.

Never thought of it that way. It is kinda creepy and off putting when you put it like this.

And concerning that bolded part I want to think that that has to be NOT the case. Japan's the country that gave us Major Motoko Kusanagi (her best depiction being Ghost In The Shell Stand Alone Complex version) and countless strong female protagonists from Miyazaki films. Other M's Samus isn't strong even by japanese standards. She is, however, pandering to a specific demographic who like thei anime filled with cutesy girls with doormat personalities.

 

[Mak]

To all those saying Samus was a complete blank slate of a character I referr to you to this Extra Credits video. Specifically go to 7:15 to see why many of us think that argument is wrong. My opinion is that just because a character doesn't speak does it make her a blank slate. And even then Samus has spoken (via written text) in Super Metroid and Fusion before Other M.

Please watch.
http://youtu.be/RqFm1ei6mjo

If this is a correct definition of a "blank slate character", Samus Aran never was a blank slate character.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BlankSlate

"A Blank Slate is an empty character with no beliefs, no opinions, and no experience, ready to be shaped by the outside world. Sometimes this is an extreme case of Fish out of Water, in which a character is transported into a world that they literally know nothing about."​

A real blank slate character is one you create in an RPG like Skyrim. Link in the Zelda games comes close, but the backstory to the games refer to him as a character, who in Zelda 1 outsmarts Ganon's minions who attacked Impa, and in Zelda II has gained many experiences that the crest of Hyrule appeared on his hand to recieve the Triforce of Courage.

In the very first Metroid, it was already established that Samus was the greatest bounty hunter of them all, and she had performed many feats thought impossible. That's why the Galactic Federation gave her the order to destroy the Metroids and Mother Brain to stop the Space Pirates in the NES Metroid. http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.php?gallery_id=m1_manual&image_id=5

This continued with Metroid II where Samus' true form was still mysterious, and her mission in the first game was her greatest achievement. http://metroid.retropixel.net/gallery.php?gallery_id=m2_manual&image_id=3

Samus went from having a limited amount of backstory and being mysterious, to being more fleshed out as the story and character evolved with each game.

1994's Super Metroid starts with Samus actually talking for the first time, summarizing her previous missions. The game had a comic adaption that ran in Nintendo Power that first gave Samus a backstory of growing up on the colony of K-2L which was attacked by Space Pirates, and being raised by the Chozo who infused her with their blood (DNA). http://www.metroid-database.com/manga/?vid=1&cid=4#manga_top

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Yes. I agree Samus was never a blank slate. She may only had had dialogue in Super Metroid and Fusion prior to Other M (and the manga, which is cannon) but that doesn't mean she didn't have a personality and showed emotion through actions before! And those emotions that she showed in Other M clash way too much with those previous ones.

Especially since Other M is near the end of the timeline. Long after Samus should be well known for her accomplishments.

Like someone else here said: Nintendo cornered themselves with Other M so they need to either remove the Other M tumor from the timeline (which is ironic that it as well removed the way better received Prime trilogy from the its timeline) or reboot the series.

Metroid needs to continue but as of right now Other M should be summoned to a murder trial on the grounds of first degree murder of the Metroid franchise.

 

[Mak]

Especially since Other M is near the end of the timeline. Long after Samus should be well known for her accomplishments.

Like someone else here said: Nintendo cornered themselves with Other M so they need to either remove the Other M tumor from the timeline (which is ironic that it as well removed the way better received Prime trilogy from the its timeline) or reboot the series.

Metroid needs to continue but as of right now Other M should be summoned to a murder trial on the grounds of first degree murder of the Metroid franchise.

Other M is just an episode that takes place after Super Metroid and before Metroid Fusion, which is currently at the end of the timeline, there's no need to remove Other M. Metroid Fusion still happens after Other M (with much of Fusion's original dialogue left open to work). The next Metroid would take place after the events of Fusion. They were setting up several story elements in Other M for a future game after Fusion. http://content.usatoday.com/communi...her-m-director-yoshio-sakamoto/1#.VNrbjPnF98E

The Metroid Prime games were always self-contained stories set during the time period between Metroid 1 and 2 out of respect. Its a way for Nintendo to make new Metroid games regardless of the developer without messing up the already established constant story the main series always had. Even if the Prime games link up with the original games, within the context of Metroid II, Super Metroid, and Metroid Fusion, the Metroid Prime games don't have any impact on the original storyline (Super Metroid's intro is very specific about Metroid 2 being the next time Samus fought the Metroids after the NES Metroid). http://www.metroid-database.com/features/nomsakamoto.php

The real issue making the next Metroid developed after Other M is one that addresses design and presentation feedback received whether good or bad, not droping an existing work from the series for the sake of story complaints about an interquel.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Other M does nothing big with its story that it really changes anything of the already established status quo so I know what you're conveying but I disagree that it's just a harmless episode because, unless it gets taken out of cannon, it will forever taint Samus as a character. I really really really don't want the Samus from Other M to be what prevails throughout the series. That game completely botched her personality and turned her into a weak doormat girl with daddy issues.

That is why Id like for either a reboot or the next Metroid game to retcon/write Other M out of cannonicity.

 

[Astral Dog]

Other M is just an episode that takes place after Super Metroid and before Metroid Fusion, which is currently at the end of the timeline, there's no need to remove Other M. Metroid Fusion still happens after Other M (with much of Fusion's original dialogue left open to work). The next Metroid would take place after the events of Fusion. They were setting up several story elements in Other M for a future game after Fusion. http://content.usatoday.com/communi...her-m-director-yoshio-sakamoto/1#.VNrbjPnF98E

The Metroid Prime games were always self-contained stories set during the time period between Metroid 1 and 2 out of respect. Its a way for Nintendo to make new Metroid games regardless of the developer without messing up the already established constant story the main series always had. Even in the Prime games link up with the original games, within the context of Metroid II, Super Metroid, and Metroid Fusion, the Metroid Prime games don't have any impact on the original storyline (Super Metroid's intro is very specific about Metroid 2 being the next time Samus fought the Metroids after the NES Metroid). http://www.metroid-database.com/features/nomsakamoto.php

The real issue making the next Metroid developed after Other M is one that addresses design and presentation feedback received whether good or bad, not droping an existing work from the series for the sake of story complaints about an interquel.

Kinda strange to read that Sakamoto planned new Metroid games and events after Fusion, wich we will never see, only thing i can think of is the evil Galactic Federation and Samus now has Adam as a personal computer.

Yeah while the Metroid Prime games are superior by far, their place on the timeline was established as more of a side story from the beggining, Metroid Prime is so connected that i can imagine the gane becoming part of it though, Zero Mission even has Meta Ridley!

Thats why it never was a huge problem to me if Other M could not reference the Primes as it does not need to, but now Other M has created many issues that it will likely be ignored..

 

[mantidor]

Anyone who plays all Metroid games would have a hard time fitting Other M in the timeline's story, it just clashes way too much with the rest of the games and makes Fusion have no sense at all. The game doesn't need to be excised because it already does that on its own.

 

[QisTopTier]

I always laughed when people try to put all the blame on Team NINJA for this game turning out the way it did.

 

[Diffense]

I always laughed when people try to put all the blame on Team NINJA for this game turning out the way it did.

Yeah, it wasn't Team Ninja's fault. They didn't write the story, Sakamoto did. They also wanted to use more buttons and Sakamoto opposed it. They modeled the purple Gravity suit and Sakamoto forced it out. It seems as if Sakamoto kept such tight reigns on them we didn't get to see how Metroid could have been adapted to 3rd person 3D (after all, Team Ninja was probably chosen because they're known for those kinds of games). Instead we got a weaker Metroid Fusion with hours of cutscenes. Zelda Mosou (and even Prime) showed us that a divergent experience can be fun if it plays to the team's strengths. But Team Ninja was given the task of making a long 3D game with the only the d-pad and a couple buttons.

IMO, it was a miracle that Other M was playable and any fun at all. Auto-aiming was necessitated by the constraints placed on the team and the dodging mechanics helped give the gameplay some fluidity. I sympathize with Team Ninja because working on an iconic franchise is a dream and it's likely that they many potentially good ideas that were killed on ideological grounds. It's awful having a boss that ties your hands knowing you'll get some of the blame for the outcome. Sorry to say, Sakamoto seems to be too old-fashioned to have anything to do with [Edit: 3D] Metroid going forward.

Based on the interviews showing Sakamoto's apparent disdain for the Prime games and his gutting of Other M, he seems a bit possessive of Samus Aran. Let's get a little meta here...lol. Sakamoto is Adam. He angry that Samus left him to go off to Talon V on her own. So when he sees her in the new game he is very dismissive and hard on her. After putting her through hell literally without a Varia suit, he kills himself foreshadowing the fact that he would never make another Metroid game.

 

[televator]

I always laughed when people try to put all the blame on Team NINJA for this game turning out the way it did.

I think a lot of the focus is on Sakamoto...

 

[QisTopTier]

I think a lot of the focus is on Sakamoto...

These days it is, but I mean more so the first few years after it's release.

 

[Astral Dog]

I think a lot of the focus is on Sakamoto...

The video mentions that Team Ninja are to blame, but we will never know for sure.

 

[televator]

The video mentions that Team Ninja are to blame, but we will never know for sure.

Oh, my bad. I must have missed where that was opted.

 

[Mak]

Sakamoto was the Director, Producer, and Writer of Other M. He wrote the story and came up with it first for Other M, with the idea of an action game with a story that was accessible for everyone to play with the Wii Remote like an NES game. http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/metroid-other-m/0/0

Originally Sakamoto wanted to make a 3D Metroid with a on the rails camera (2D side scrolling with 3D graphics), but Team Ninja showed how they could make the game in a 3D space with the 8 directions of the Control Pad. The first person view was used to search around because of the limited amount of buttons the controller. Sakamoto went to team Ninja because he was impressed by Ninja Gaiden. http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/metroid-other-m/0/0

Sakamoto imposed the restriction of Wii Remote only from the beginning and Team Ninja worked within this "restriction". http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/metroid-other-m/0/1
They did not seem restricted at all, coming up with many ideas, and adding more and more to the game as it developed.
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/metroid-other-m/1/4

The CG scenes and in game cutscenes were directed by Ryuzi Kitaura from D-Rockets and his group created the CG scenes separately from Team Ninja's gameplay sections for the first year, with Sakamoto surpervisor both sides. (Sakamoto and Kitaura would argue about the Zero Suit, with Kitaura wanting to use it more to easily show Samus' human side during scenes, but Sakamoto wouldn't relent to overusing it.) http://youtu.be/6zPkFzMR_9k

Takayasu Morisawa (Zero Mission - Art Director) was put in charge of designing the visuals for Team Ninja to follow.
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/metroid-other-m/1/4
Takehiko Hosokawa (Fusion, Zero Mission - game design level design) was in charge of pulling the story together and communicating with Team Ninja.

- Also, there's nothing in the script, dialogue, cutscenes and other parts Metroid Fusion that contradicts Other M taking place before it, besides the player seeing repeating themes. Some of you might want to replay Metroid Fusion again.

When you put the original Metroid games: Metroid 1, Metroid 2, and Super Metroid together like the Other M promotional video summarizes, they fit in a tight continuity. http://youtu.be/hkNVE7iZZwU

 

[Toxi]

Sakamoto imposed the restriction of Wii Remote only from the beginning and Team Ninja worked within this "restriction". http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/metroid-other-m/0/1
They did not seem restricted at all, coming up with many ideas, and adding more and more to the game as it developed.
http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/metroid-other-m/1/4

LOL of course they're going to say it wasn't restrictive, they're advertising the game.

The D-pad control scheme of Other M restricts the controls in many ways. For example, sticking the Sense Move onto the D-pad as a context-sensitive action makes movement in combat inconsistent because you can't choose whether to execute a dodge or a moment. The D-pad being used for movement also means that the game can't have a controllable camera, leading to problems when backtracking in rooms with a fixed camera since the camera is not pointed in the direction you're moving and enemies can hit you from offscreen. Then you have the obvious restrictions of no analog movement, especially when jumping.

A pure 3D platformer might have worked with a Wiimote-only control scheme, but a combat-based 3D game with platforming simply can't without sacrificing fluidity and depth.

- Also, there's nothing in the script, dialogue, cutscenes and other parts Metroid Fusion that contradicts Other M taking place before it, besides the player seeing repeating themes. Some of you might want to replay Metroid Fusion again.

"Following the commands of this blunt, computerized CO is something I have to bear, as it was a condition of my taking the ship. For someone who dislikes taking orders, this is the second time I've found myself having to do so. It makes me recall my other CO..."

Well look at that, a line in the opening of Fusion that contradicts Other M (And Prime 3). Maybe you need to replay Fusion.

 

[Astral Dog]

"Following the commands of this blunt, computerized CO is something I have to bear, as it was a condition of my taking the ship. For someone who dislikes taking orders, this is the second time I've found myself having to do so. It makes me recall my other CO..."

Well look at that, a line in the opening of Fusion that contradicts Other M (And Prime 3). Maybe you need to replay Fusion.

"Understood Adam, no objections of course !"

Spoiler

That after saying she was exhilarated

 

[Mael]

"Understood Adam, no objections of course !"

Spoiler

That after saying she was exhilarated

It's not the same! She's totally ok with taking orders from her loving sempai!!!

Seriously if that whole relationship was made to make a statement on abusive relationships I would be singing its praises to high heaven!

 

[MechaX]

- Also, there's nothing in the script, dialogue, cutscenes and other parts Metroid Fusion that contradicts Other M taking place before it, besides the player seeing repeating themes. Some of you might want to replay Metroid Fusion again.]

Between Nightmare and the Metroid Breeding subplot, there is absolutely no logical reason why Samus wouldn't think that those particular factoids would be worthy of some comment in the course of Fusion.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

- Also, there's nothing in the script, dialogue, cutscenes and other parts Metroid Fusion that contradicts Other M taking place before it, besides the player seeing repeating themes. Some of you might want to replay Metroid Fusion again.

Other M contradicts the climax and big reveal of Fusion's Metroid breeding area. Samus wouldn't have been so shocked that the Federation was evil.

Also she has no idea who Nightmare is, despite fighting him once before (apparently).

 

[jholmes]

How about the fact that the freakout is 100% unearned?

How about you read my posts? Holy damn I am not going to keep going in circles on this argument. If you don't agree with me that's fine but don't act like you're landing some killing blow when I've discussed this to death already.

To all those saying Samus was a complete blank slate of a character I referr to you to this Extra Credits video. Specifically go to 7:15 to see why many of us think that argument is wrong. My opinion is that just because a character doesn't speak does it make her a blank slate. And even then Samus has spoken (via written text) in Super Metroid and Fusion before Other M.

Please watch.
http://youtu.be/RqFm1ei6mjo

I've played all the games. I don't agree with you. No one on YouTube is going to change my mind. And that's OK! Good games draw different reactions from people.

And further, the opening text crawl in Super Metroid, where Samus recites the plot in complete safety before even exiting her ship, is is no way comparable to what happens in scenes from Other M like the Ridley scene. Samus's stark, sparse dialogue with a computer in Fusion is at least in the ballpark but in terms of both subject and presentation miles away from what's in Other M.

And, because so many of you don't seem to understand this, when I say Other M is different than Fusion, in no way do I mean Other M is better than Fusion. At all.

 

[Mael]

I've played all the games. I don't agree with you. No one on YouTube is going to change my mind. And that's OK! Good games draw different reactions from people.

And further, the opening text crawl in Super Metroid, where Samus recites the plot in complete safety before even exiting her ship, is is no way comparable to what happens in scenes from Other M like the Ridley scene. Samus's stark, sparse dialogue with a computer in Fusion is at least in the ballpark but in terms of both subject and presentation miles away from what's in Other M.

And, because so many of you don't seem to understand this, when I say Other M is different than Fusion, in no way do I mean Other M is better than Fusion. At all.

Wait what?
Samus was a blank slate before Other M, that's your argument?

 

[jholmes]

Wait what?
Samus was a blank slate before Other M, that's your argument?

The fascinating thing about a message board is that every point of my argument is saved and displayed for all to see.

 

[Mael]

The fascinating thing about a message board is that every point of my argument is saved and displayed for all to see.

That was pretty clear the 1rst time you made that point

I don't suppose I could, but a) I don't know that I could find another series where what was once a blank slate of a character is suddenly given reams of dialogue, and

And no Samus was never a blank slate before, that argument would be stupid even for Mario or Link.
Samus wasn't full of baggage before Other M but she wasn't a blank slate either.

 

[jholmes]

That was pretty clear the 1rst time you made that point

Was it?

And no Samus was never a blank slate before, that argument would be stupid even for Mario or Link.
Samus wasn't full of baggage before Other M but she wasn't a blank slate either.

If you think Link is not a blank slate I would wonder what you would consider a rich, detailed character. Before you tell me I assure you that you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how much I disagree with you. Cheers.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Could someone point me in the direction of Sakamoto's quotes where he publicly dissed on Metroid Prime? I really need to see those because I find it super ironic that the man that made the hands down most hated Metroid game in the franchise hated so much on, arguably, the best of the bunch (and the superior 3D one).

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Was it?



If you think Link is not a blank slate I would wonder what you would consider a rich, detailed character. Before you tell me I assure you that you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how much I disagree with you. Cheers.

I got news for you: the world ain't black and white. You don't have to be either a rich and detailed character like, say, Ellie from TLoU or Be a complete blank slate. There are shades of grey. And Samus was not a blank slate before Other M. Link isn't one either but I'll admit he's blank-er than Samus.

 

[Szadek]

If you think Link is not a blank slate I would wonder what you would consider a rich, detailed character. Before you tell me I assure you that you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how much I disagree with you. Cheers.

Because a charcater has to be either a blank slate or a rich,detailed character?
With no middle ground?
Also,Link ain't Samus and there are many versions of him.
Some of them have more personality than others.

 

[Veelk]

If you think Link is not a blank slate I would wonder what you would consider a rich, detailed character. Before you tell me I assure you that you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how much I disagree with you. Cheers.

A rich detailed character being more characterized than link does not mean that Link is a blank slate. That's like saying 100 is a much higher number than 5, therefore 5 must be 0.

Here's what we know about Link. We know, in every game, he goes out to save Hyrule. This means he's brave as he faces many dangers and he's heroically minded. He solves plenty of puzzles, so he's a thinker as well. Most of the characters he meets seem to like him, so he must be charming or friendly to an extent. He's a quick study, given how many games have him start off with little to no combat experience. Then we add more personality traits based on what the player does in the game. If the player does the side quests, that means he also likes to help others with their problems. He might be an abuser of chickens. He might like games, if the player has him playing minigames.

That's just off the top of my head. Link isn't characterized much, but it's almost impossible to have a truly blank slate character. Even Gordon Freeman has attributes you can give him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqFm1ei6mjo

That video details some stuff about Samus' character before Other M.

Edit: Didn't realize this was already posted.

 

[jholmes]

Guys, I'm not here to discuss everyone's ideal definition of a blank slate or to rank characters by their blandness, and neither is the thread. I know some people are getting their blood boiling every time I post (I don't know why) but let's at least try to stay on topic.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Could someone point me in the direction of Sakamoto's quotes where he publicly dissed on Metroid Prime? I really need to see those because I find it super ironic that the man that made the hands down most hated Metroid game in the franchise hated so much on, arguably, the best of the bunch (and the superior 3D one).

He didn't actually insult the Prime games. He said they aren't part of the series' main storyline and that their characterization of Samus is different from how he envisioned her (which is a strange comment because Retro once said he was involved with that specifically, and he told them he saw her as a no-nonsense badass...).

As someone who thinks Sakamoto fucked up pretty hard with Other M, the idea among fans that he actually bashed the Prime games is pretty obnoxious. It's just people looking for something to be bitter about.