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[Linkstrikesback]

It says something where most of the "For" crowd was still like "the story was horrendous, but I enjoyed everything else!"

More like he was an idiot and counted anyone even vaguely not 200% against the very existence of other M as "for". How I ended up in "possibly for" on that list baffles me. I can only assume a significant portion of the rest of the "possibly for/for" list shouldn't be there.

 

[anotherVegan]

Super Metroid was far better at story telling than this game.

Actually, Super was a better everything.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

More like he was an idiot and counted anyone even vaguely not 200% against the very existence of other M as "for". How I ended up in "possibly for" on that list baffles me. I can only assume a significant portion of the rest of the "possibly for/for" list shouldn't be there.

He also stopped counting at some arbitrary cut off point because I remember voting Against and wasn't counted...

Super Metroid was far better at story telling than this game.

Actually, Super was a better everything.

Understatement of the century. It's like saying filet mignon tastes better than vomit.

 

[Regulus Tera]

The story of Metroid Other M:


It's shit.

 

[televator]

My dream would be to take every last copy of this game and launch it into the sun. Then release a computer virus that deletes all digital traces of it.

 

[jholmes]

Which we never learn the identity of!

I am so glad I can go into a Other M thread and have people already bagging on The Deleter and how badly Other M bungles that without me bringing it up first. Everyone complains about Other M but the stuff they complain about is ridiculous. The real issues in this game -- the Deleter, the final boss, the fucking PIXEL HUNTS which are by far the biggest problem in the whole game, and I could go on and on -- it seems like everyone gives a pass.

I don't think the plot is quite as bad as most people make it out to be but the Deleter stuff is amateur hour.

Whether people think Other M has decent gameplay (it doesn't) or not is up to them. But the story still amazes me by how easily it killed Samus' characterization.

I hate hate hate that people say this. There's this awful argument I come across with Other M, which is that since a) Samus is afraid of Ridley, b) Samus doesn't shoot Adam in the face, and c) Samus cares for The Baby, Samus isn't tough. I hate to be this guy but I would question whether a male protagonist would catch crap for being startled by Ridley showing up.

As for the gameplay I think it's at least decent and at worst an interesting idea, although that's clearly not on topic here.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Its James, i dont remember why or where i read it, and Samus never finds out, but its him.

because his body was found where the Delete tried to kill MB, and there are no other survivors besides Samus and Anthony.

 

[JC Lately]

I

I hate hate hate that people say this. There's this awful argument I come across with Other M, which is that since a) Samus is afraid of Ridley, b) Samus doesn't shoot Adam in the face, and c) Samus cares for The Baby, Samus isn't tough. I hate to be this guy but I would question whether a male protagonist would catch crap for being startled by Ridley showing up.

As for the gameplay I think it's at least decent and at worst an interesting idea, although that's clearly not on topic here.

There’s ‘startled’, and then there’s ‘reduced to a sobbing child'.

And yes, male characters get all kinds of shit when their reactions are perceived as being out of proportion to the situation at hand. See: every thread complaining about every shounen-style JRPG protaginst ever, but especially Hope.

 

[Magnet_Man]

The real issues in this game -- the Deleter, the final boss, the fucking PIXEL HUNTS which are by far the biggest problem in the whole game, and I could go on and on -- it seems like everyone gives a pass.

You really expect people to state every single thing wrong with the game in each post? There are so many walls of texts as is. And I'm seeing multiple posts in this topic and every Other M topic commenting on the Deleter, the final boss "fight" and the "character", and the pixel hunts. What topics do you go into that don't have your complaints listed multiple times?

I don't think the plot is quite as bad as most people make it out to be.

You're correct.

It's worse.

I hate to be this guy but I would question whether a male protagonist would catch crap for being startled by Ridley showing up.

You'd be wrong. So unbelievably wrong. She has encountered Ridley 4 times (8 times if we count Prime). It is very unusual and unexpected for her to NOW freak out, especially with no context or purpose for it.

But more than anything Samus's reaction is not something as mild as "startled". She breaks down shivering and if you watch the cutscene, she realizes it's Ridley at 0:10 and stands there panicking until he grabs her at 1:11.

She is pissing her suit for a full minute at the sight of Ridley.

Name me a single character that lost their shit that hard and stood by in absolute fear for over a minute straight just at the sight of their enemy that they have encountered and defeated multiple times with a 100% success rate. This isn't Jason Voorhees or Freddy Kruger that are supernatural and essentially immortal, he's a space monster and Samus fights giant space monsters every day. If I saw a movie with Batman responding to a jewelry store break-in and when arriving at the scene finds the Joker picking the safe only for Batman to break down trembling while shouting "No! It can't be!" for 1 minute straight while Joker just stands there, that movie would go straight into the garbage.

Calling Samus's reaction "startled" would be like calling the motherhood symbolism "subtle".

 

[A Bomb]

Only good thing that came out of this might be samus's mole. Maybe.

oh god, I haaaaate that damn mole, and the whole design of Samus overall, really. Completely anime-level porcelain white skin, crayon yellow hair, glowing pink designs on an impossibly skin-tight suit, replete with leering camera shots of her body in said suit, one within the first five minutes of the game) and of course, the pointless high heels. She's supposed to be over six feet tall, yet throughout Other M she's consistently portrayed as shorter than any of the men in the squad...even in the power suit! They'd have to all be 7 feet tall if that were the case.

 

[jholmes]

There’s ‘startled’, and then there’s ‘reduced to a sobbing child'.

And yes, male characters get all kinds of shit when their reactions are perceived as being out of proportion to the situation at hand. See: every thread complaining about every shounen-style JRPG protaginst ever, but especially Hope.

People don't complain about Hope because they think he's weak, they complain that he's annoying, the most annoying character in a truly grating cast. They also complain that his motivations are inconsistent, whereas I think Samus's are consistent: Ridley has taken a lot from her and refuses to die.

As for the Adam stuff, if Samus is supposed to be this tough woman with a militaristic background, should would understand the need for a hierarchy and the point of following orders. As to why Adam won't allow Samus to turn on the part of her armour that protects her from lava, that part I don't excuse.

You really expect people to state every single thing wrong with the game in each post? There are so many walls of texts as is. And I'm seeing multiple posts in this topic and every Other M topic commenting on the Deleter, the final boss "fight" and the "character", and the pixel hunts. What topics do you go into that don't have your complaints listed multiple times?

...er, no? I'm just glad people in this thread are on point with their criticisms. I'm afraid you may have wildly misread my comments. I'm not here to tear people down for not addressing the issues I see as glaring, I'm saying people are expressing insight in this thread rarely seen on the Internet.

You'd be wrong. So unbelievably wrong. She has encountered Ridley 4 times (8 times if we count Prime). It is very unusual and unexpected for her to NOW freak out, especially with no context or purpose for it.

She thought Ridley was dead.

Also, which other times in the series did we see Samus's face or hear her dialogue when she met Ridley? Who decides what she did or did not do in those situations? And is rising to meet a frightening challenge, as she does when she defeats Ridley, make her weak?

 

[MattKeil]

Just for the record, I totally enjoyed Other M as a game. Gameplay, level design, environment design, all top notch (OST too understated, though).

I don't see how this is even possible to believe. The Adam activation bullshit is entirely in place to allow the game to not have any extra exploration areas or need to find Samus' power ups, so you're already talking about a radically simplified Metroid game. On top of that the 2D/3D thing is terrible and suddenly introduces the never-the-case-before-or-since "Samus has to stand still to shoot a missle" nonsense, there's that stupid "find the pixel" hidden object gameplay that they use to gate story sequences for progression...it's barely mediocre most of the time. In comparison to any other game in the series it's total amateur hour and insultingly simplified.

I hate hate hate that people say this. There's this awful argument I come across with Other M, which is that since a) Samus is afraid of Ridley, b) Samus doesn't shoot Adam in the face, and c) Samus cares for The Baby, Samus isn't tough. I hate to be this guy but I would question whether a male protagonist would catch crap for being startled by Ridley showing up.

You find me a game in which the male protagonist is literally reduced to being a crying child in the face of an enemy he has faced and soundly defeated over half a dozen times previously and we'll see if he catches crap for that. But I doubt you'll find that game, because what happens to Samus in the Ridley scene is purely because she's a female character, and Other M is all about removing agency from her whenever it can. As pointed out upthread, she doesn't actually do anything of consequence in the game. She's not even the one who gets to kill Ridley!

She thought Ridley was dead.

As though this is the only time a major enemy Samus thought was dead turned out to be alive again. Ridley himself has come back from the dead multiple times at this point in the timeline.

Also, which other times in the series did we see Samus's face or hear her dialogue when she met Ridley?

Yes, clearly we were always mean to imagine the digitized screams and crying whenever Ridley appeared in the 8- and 16-bit games. Only with Other M did the technology finally exist to portray Samus' feminine weakness the way Nintendo always intended it to be.

Who decides what she did or did not do in those situations? And is rising to meet a frightening challenge, as she does when she defeats Ridley, make her weak?

The writer decides that, and in this case the writer made her a squealing little girl in the face of a challenge she has canonically conquered between 4 and 8 times already. And she doesn't rise to meet the challenge because the writer has another character finish Ridley off, so she doesn't even get to complete the fake ass character arc the scene tries to set up.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Man, I've never played any of the Metroid games, have barely any connection to Samus as a character and even I got pissed off reading about Other M's story.

 

[Toxi]

She thought Ridley was dead.

Also, which other times in the series did we see Samus's face or hear her dialogue when she met Ridley? Who decides what she did or did not do in those situations? And is rising to meet a frightening challenge, as she does when she defeats Ridley, make her weak?

Zero Mission shows her face. Prime has her act pissed as hell when he escapes.

And then in Prime 3 she outright shoots Ridley as soon as she sees him.

There is nothing like Other M's Ridley scene in the rest of the series. There is no justification for Samus sobbing in front of Ridley for a minute and having to be rescued by fucking Anthony.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Should have been the box art.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

She thought Ridley was dead.

Also, which other times in the series did we see Samus's face or hear her dialogue when she met Ridley? Who decides what she did or did not do in those situations? And is rising to meet a frightening challenge, as she does when she defeats Ridley, make her weak?

In Prime, Samus thought Ridley was dead. She had a mild "Oh wow, I thought I killed you!" moment on Orpheon (with her gun pointed directly at him), when he escapes, she makes a very clear "damn, next time, Ridley!", and then made it her mission to track him down and kill him.

So yea, we've seen her reactions to a resurrected Ridley, in 3D, with proper animations that can convey emotion.

Samus showing emotion in 3D is not some new concept or novel idea Other M had. It had happened 3 times before that.

"But I killed you on Tallon! Will you cut it out and die already!" Note her initial reaction is not to even flinch. At all. No, it's to start firing. And she doesn't even show a lick of fear as he comes crashing down and they epically fight while falling down a massive tunnel. I might add this fight is one of the coolest things ever.

If anything, she comes across annoyed that he won't stay down. Never afraid though, just maybe frustrated.

And this is ignoring the abomination, screw attack using, zombie, Ridley X, who Samus never even has a monologue about or mentions at all because SA-X was around and she had no time for any of Ridley's nonsense. If regular Ridley broke her down that much, wouldn't a zombie Ridley using her most powerful weapon against her be even worse?

 

[Toxi]

I just need to reiterate this because it's so dumb: Samus Aran had to be rescued by Anthony. One of the fodder marines rescued Samus Aran because she was initially too terrified to fight back against Ridley.

 

[KiteGr]

If extra credits bothered to give an entire episode on this game, then something must have gone horribly wrong!

 

[Astral Dog]

*raises hand*
I'd be cool with that, for one. I think that's basically what most fans want in a new 3D Metroid. Sure there could be plenty of new stuff thrown in, but the overarching mix of exploring and shooting in Prime was great, and the story/characters weren't retarded.

I do think certain Metroidisms wouldn't stand well for a 2016 (or whatever) shooter though, some things seem more old timey game-ey. Like Ridley the generic space dragon.

Well, i meant i would like something that is not "just" Metroid Prime 4, if Retro are going to make the next game, and at this point they are the most likely candidates, i want a new Metroid that applies what they learned from DKC, and not something that continues the path led by Corruption, if that makes sense

 

[ivysaur12]

So, I've played ever other Metroid except Other M… I'm aware of how bad the story is supposed to be, but does it play well?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

So, I've played ever other Metroid except Other M… I'm aware of how bad the story is supposed to be, but does it play well?

It's... alright. There's some glaringly awful parts (pixel hunts for example), and the first person missiles are terrible, and the game is a little hard to control at times with random invisible walls in places easily reachable with jumps and using a d-pad in a 3D space. There's also no real exploration like in every other Metroid.

But, it's playable if you mute the game during the 2 hours of cutscenes the game has and pretend it has no story.

The character graphics aren't terrible at all. The environments are boring, but the actual enemies, bosses, etc are really not badly designed at all.

 

[Astral Dog]

Why did Adam authorize the initial Breeding program, knowing full well they were trying to recreate the most dangerous beings in the universe?

Why is Mother Brain suddenly needed to control the Metroids, when she has had absolutely zero influence over them in past games?

Why did Adam shoot Samus in the back? Why did Adam assume that all the Metroids in Sector Zero are unfreezeable, based on zero evidence?

If the Galactic Federation wanted to keep the Bottle Ship a secret, why not just send a secret squad there to destroy it, instead of sending THAT PERFECT MILITARY MIND? All those soldiers at the end of Other M, are they going to be killed too, since they know the truth about the Bottle Ship?

"It was the first joint mission I had been apart of since becoming a bounty hunter." Why is Samus a liar?

Why did Ridley spend months as a Furby, only to suddenly evolve through two metamorphosis stages the fucking day Samus got there? Bullllllshit.

.

Well i think i can answer these questions.

Adam didn't authorized the breeding program, it was made secretly using his name.

Mother Brain is a creation of the Chozo to control Zebes, while im not sure if s this is adressed on the manga, she must know how to control them to an extent , its been awhile since i read it though.

I suppose Adam researched the documents or database on the ship.

Samus says they want the Metroids, possibly the data on all bioweapons.

first mission? im not sure what you mean, but Samus defeating Mother Brain on Zebes was not her first actual mission.

Baby Ridley got stronger by eating that honey from the wisp, i assume this accelerated his growing.

Finally,the game kind of implies that Ridley can control the pirates too,like MB, Samus says this, and Phantom later does it, its not much better but...

The Space Pirates seem to be doing just fine without Mother Brain in this not-Prime game..

Also without Mother Brain the pirates managed to rebuild Mother Brain herself. If the pirates only had their sentience and intelligence from Mother Brain, how did they manage to rebuild Mother Brain in Super Metroid?

The pirates dont "need" Mother Brain to function, Samus suspects that Ridley is controlling them first, and we see Phantom doing the same later, they probably need some kind of big intelligence or leader, its still different than Prime, but, they are not useless without MB.

 

[Magnet_Man]

So, I've played ever other Metroid except Other M… I'm aware of how bad the story is supposed to be, but does it play well?

• It is positively terrified to be any sort of challenge to the player.
• If you can mash left on the D-Pad, you will pretty much never get hit.
• There are no new power ups at all with the exception of something that makes your charge shot explosion even larger, making this embarrassingly easy game even easier.
• Missile Expansions for days with no use for them at all.
• There is no exploration as every door closes behind you and every room is a glorified hallway.
• The most by-the-book environments ever with no style or atmosphere. Forest area, fire area, ice area, the end.
• You have to stand still to use missiles.
• When low on health can recover energy just by pointing the wiimote up.

The game is functional, but it requires so little of the player that combat is extremely unsatisfying and boring. The only thing anyone compliments is the gymnastics that Samus is doing in this clearly weightless Power Suit.

 

[RK128]

Considering I don't have that much to say about other Other M without being negative....I will give it credit for its 'attempt' at blending 2D and 3D . With the proper control set-up (Nunchuck and Wii Mote), it could have been a damn good game control wise, as all of Samus's moves are in Other M and I loved the fact the game played up how athletic she is; it made the simple combat in Other M look grand due to her animations I think .

For the story.....I guess the CGI was good :l? I enjoyed the CGI-remake of the fight with Mother Brain; it looked amazing, the detail was spot on, and the final blow to Mother Brain was so cool looking (love how it zoomed insider her cannon, then as the blast comes out, rapidly flies out toward the screen).

Granted, that is not really new story (as it is still within Super Metroid) but it is something positive about the games quote on quote 'story'.

If butchering one of the few powerful female characters in gaming counts as story, then I find Other M's plot to be quite horrible sadly X(....but it is very easy to ignore it within the series (as Fusion barely mentions stuff that happened in Other M outside of Adam being a computer), so I'm not that pissed with the game.

My hate for the tittle also stems from it forcing me to buy another Wii (it trashed my launch Wii's disk drive X().

 

[Toxi]

So, I've played ever other Metroid except Other M… I'm aware of how bad the story is supposed to be, but does it play well?

I don't think so.

The combat is very shallow and easy. You can dodge any attack by pressing any direction on the D-pad, and during the entire dodge you're invincible so no timing is required. Aiming is automatic lock-on with no player input. Charge shots do low damage because you're intended to use missiles, but using missiles requires you to turn the Wii-mote to the screen which is a pain in the ass. While in first-person to fire missiles, you can't move either, which makes you feel clunky. So it's just safer to spam the dodge button and fire charge shots to whittle foes down most of the time. Newer power-ups do not change combat until the Screw Attack, which just makes it a complete joke.

Also, there are finishing move QTEs. Why the hell are they in a Metroid game is anyone's guess.

Moving around with the D-pad in open areas is awkward because the Wii-mote has an awful D-pad and you're restricted to eight directions. The camera is fixed, and this leads to some serious issues when backtracking or when fighting off-screen enemies. Enemies no longer drop missiles or health, so there's no point to fight them when you don't have to. To get back health and ammo, you only have to turn the Wii-mote up and you'll regenerate to one energy tank and full missiles. Like many non-pointer Wii-mote controls, this is annoyingy inconsistent.

The level design is ramrod linear. Doors usually lock behind you to stop backtracking, and power-ups are given in cutscenes following story order. There are even some obvious invisible walls blocking you from space jumping to power-ups. There is little reward for exploration anyway because power-ups barely improve Samus; missiles provide only one missile at a time, and energy tanks are nearly pointless with how Samus can just regenerate health.

The game has a lot of obnoxious forced gameplay changes. For example, in some sections you're forced into slowly walking in an over-the-shoulder perspective. In others you're rooted to the ground in a first-person perspective and forced to look for some sort of detail. There are no hints as to what you're looking for and these hidden objects can be things like a tiny splash of green blood on green grass. Oh, and the cutscenes are unskippable.

Aesthetically the game is balls. The environments are bleh, the enemies look like Power Ranger villains, and Samus is a neat shade of piss yellow before she gets the Varia Suit. Then there's the music, which ranges from boring barely audible ambience to the musical equivalent of nails on a chalkboard. Holy shit, can you believe we went from the iconic Metroid Prime space pirate theme to that?

 

[jholmes]

You find me a game in which the male protagonist is literally reduced to being a crying child in the face of an enemy he has faced and soundly defeated over half a dozen times previously and we'll see if he catches crap for that.

I don't suppose I could, but a) I don't know that I could find another series where what was once a blank slate of a character is suddenly given reams of dialogue, and b) that also doesn't happen in Other M -- Samus certainly isn't "literally reduced to being a crying child" and I'd say it's hyperbolic to say she's figuratively reduced to a crying child, for that matter.

As though this is the only time a major enemy Samus thought was dead turned out to be alive again. Ridley himself has come back from the dead multiple times at this point in the timeline.

...

Yes, clearly we were always mean to imagine the digitized screams and crying whenever Ridley appeared in the 8- and 16-bit games. Only with Other M did the technology finally exist to portray Samus' feminine weakness the way Nintendo always intended it to be.

So again, this is where my problem is: if Samus is a woman, and if she's terrified by the apperance a monster who destroyed her life as a child (a monster she still fights, by the way), and she feels responsible for the baby, she isn't tough. That's reductive and that sort of argument that leads to the sort of hulking, featureless protagonists we see in so many video games.

Is it stupid that she doesn't kill him? Sure, but that's not really what we're discussing, is it?

Zero Mission shows her face. Prime has her act pissed as hell when he escapes.

And then in Prime 3 she outright shoots Ridley as soon as she sees him.

In Prime, Samus thought Ridley was dead. She had a mild "Oh wow, I thought I killed you!" moment on Orpheon (with her gun pointed directly at him), when he escapes, she makes a very clear "damn, next time, Ridley!", and then made it her mission to track him down and kill him.

...Note her initial reaction is not to even flinch. At all. No, it's to start firing. And she doesn't even show a lick of fear as he comes crashing down and they epically fight while falling down a massive tunnel. I might add this fight is one of the coolest things ever.

If anything, she comes across annoyed that he won't stay down. Never afraid though, just maybe frustrated.

What would you cite as evidence, though? That she appears stoic through a giant mechanical suit? Wouldn't anyone?

I don't begrudge anyone for disliking the way the Samus's character is portrayed in Other M (I would have some issues with some of the arguments made about Samus's motivations though, absolutely) but the fact is if Nintendo made a Kirby game where Kirby kept talking about his motivations, people wouldn't necessarily relate to that because Kirby is a blank canvas. Much the same is Samus. Samus only does what we do. To give her a personality, even one someone might dislike, is necessary in a game like Other M.

Does that mean they should've done that? No, not necessarily, but it was a neat idea.

 

[Toxi]

What would you cite as evidence, though? That she appears stoic through a giant mechanical suit? Wouldn't anyone?

She doesn't look stoic in Zero Mission and Prime, she looks pissed off. Go watch those cutscenes. In Zero Mission she has murder eyes and in Prime she makes a laughably exaggerated "damn it" gesture when he escapes.

Then in Prime 3 she shoots Ridley on sight.

 

[NintenDOMG]

To me, Other M is to the Metroid serie what Rising is to Metal Gear.


Take that as you will...

 

[Toxi]

To me, Other M is to the Metroid serie what Rising is to Metal Gear.

Take that as you will...

Comparing Rising's combat to Other M is a great way to show just how shitty Other M is as an action game.

 

[Ezalc]

As for the Adam stuff, if Samus is supposed to be this tough woman with a militaristic background, should would understand the need for a hierarchy and the point of following orders. As to why Adam won't allow Samus to turn on the part of her armour that protects her from lava, that part I don't excuse.

She thought Ridley was dead.

Also, which other times in the series did we see Samus's face or hear her dialogue when she met Ridley? Who decides what she did or did not do in those situations? And is rising to meet a frightening challenge, as she does when she defeats Ridley, make her weak?

Haha what? None of these make any sense. Samus is a disciplined warrior and the need for a hierarchy during missions is certainly important but she is under no obligation to work within that hierarchy much less be on, as this game portrays it, the lowest ring of it. Given Samus' abilities she should be at least on equal footing as Adam. The point being though, that she's an independent. While this may be a joint operation, she has no obligation to any of the soldiers nor Adam, their military conduct, or regulations. Especially if her life is jeopardy for whatever reason.

Ridley has died and come back many times, this is a non-argument. Not only that but the game can't even go out of it's way to explain WHY Samus has that reaction to Ridley at all. So unless you know what happened from previous games, all you get is her freaking out at this one giant monster but not any of the others in this game. Even by it's own rules it's not justified.

Oh please, first off as others have mentioned Samus has displayed how she feels in other games when Ridley inevitably reappears. Secondly, even in older games if this was an issue they could easily animate it or find a way to make it apparent that something is wrong. Samus suddenly getting down on one knee or starting to slowly walk back then trying to run away or making it so the player can't fire at him in the beginning of the fight while he approaches her for some reason. It doesn't always have to show her face and make her talk to display her emotions. We'd easily be able to infer her emotional state from such things, none of which happened in other encounters with him.

It doesn't but the problem is that in Other M she doesn't even get to do that. She fights with him, after Anthony is the one who has to make the first counterattack, and then she doesn't even get to kill him, because the game can't have Samus accomplish something within its own plot.

For the story.....I guess the CGI was good :l? I enjoyed the CGI-remake of the fight with Mother Brain; it looked amazing, the detail was spot on, and the final blow to Mother Brain was so cool looking (love how it zoomed insider her cannon, then as the blast comes out, rapidly flies out toward the screen)..

I just wanted to highlight this one scene because no it really wasn't. Watch the super metroid mother brain fight again and then watch the cinematic. It is very much a completely different scene that was changed in order to make Samus seem like she cared more about the baby metroid than she actually did.

To me, Other M is to the Metroid serie what Rising is to Metal Gear.


Take that as you will...

Rising was a fantastic game with a great soundtrack and amazing combat hampered by it's short and troubled development time. In regards to the rest of the MGS series it's a whole different beast but at least it's a fun game. The same thing cannot be said about Other M. Other M is the Metroid equivalent of the Star Wars prequels.

 

[NintenDOMG]

Comparing Rising's combat to Other M is a great way to show just how shitty Other M is as an action game.

It's not really what I said.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

Where to begin, Samus finished her mission on Zebes, and thinks a lot about "The Baby" Metroid that saved her, she receives a distress signal called baby`s cry from the Bottle Ship, a spaceship shaped like a feeding bottle.

I've never seen this image before, but it's so good.

The fact that the game takes place on the Bottle Ship always bothered me, because it's not even trying to be subtle symbolism. It's just right fucking there.

 

[Toxi]

I don't suppose I could, but a) I don't know that I could find another series where what was once a blank slate of a character is suddenly given reams of dialogue, and b) that also doesn't happen in Other M -- Samus certainly isn't "literally reduced to being a crying child" and I'd say it's hyperbolic to say she's figuratively reduced to a crying child, for that matter.

The cutscene literally portrays her as a little girl. As in Samus suddenly appears as a sobbing five year old child.

I'm not sure how you can call it hyperbole when that's what happens in the game.

 

[RK128]

I just wanted to highlight this one scene because no it really wasn't. Watch the super metroid mother brain fight again and then watch the cinematic. It is very much a completely different scene that was changed in order to make Samus seem like she cared more about the baby metroid than she actually did.

Oh, guess I messed that up then :l. At least it looked cool to me honestly....no game can be entire horrid . I see exactly what you mean, so sorry about the confusion.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

I hate hate hate that people say this. There's this awful argument I come across with Other M, which is that since a) Samus is afraid of Ridley, b) Samus doesn't shoot Adam in the face, and c) Samus cares for The Baby, Samus isn't tough.

B) She doesn't have to shoot him, but she should be a bit more upset with his treatment of her. At some point, you'd think she'd say:

"I'm really getting sick of this. All this time, you've done nothing but bark orders at me. No 'Nice job exterminating the Metroids, Lady' or 'Good work stopping the space pirates on Zebes, twice.'

I've accomplished so much since I left the Federation, and you act like I'm still a child. I'm starting to think that it's because I succeeded without you that you're having such a hard time respecting me, as if doing so will force you to acknowledge your bruised ego.

When I saw you again today, I was actually glad. I wanted to catch up, and to be reminded of the things I admired about you. But you know what, Adam? The only things you've reminded me of are the reasons that I left."

Wrote that in ten minutes, makes Samus sound ballsier and more in character than anything in Other M.

 

[Mak]

No it shits on those two as well. The Mother Brain scene is completely wrong, not to mention they play up the connection between the baby metroid and Samus when she never cared for it as a mother would her child. Something shown in both Super and II, like the fact that after finding it she just gives the baby to scientists basically without a second thought, also there's a queen metroid in the end of Other M isn't there? Another callback to II IIRC that Samus also doesn't get to kill, because she can't have any sort of closure in that game. So basically this game is the Anti-Metroid as it collectively shits on the entire franchise.

Oh God, this is another thing.
Super Metroid happens immediately after Return of Samus, so the space between her leaving sr388 and arriving at the Research Colony is not days or months. But hours.

And we're supposed to believe she's shared enough of a connection to have a motherly connection.

Nope. Don't buy it.

That's incorrect. Samus caring for the Metroid like a mother is a bit too much but she did care for it a little. It's the reason why she didn't kill it in the first place. In Fusion, Samus mentions how the baby had saved her life twice. Once in Super Metroid and in Fusion with the creation of the X parasite vaccine and how she owes that Metroid her life.

Samus cares for the baby Metroid but Other M just made it weird in a way that didn't make sense.

I can see her caring for the baby metroid but nothing anywhere near like how a mother does a child. Also, I mentioned when she gave it away. She saved the last one because I'm guessing Samus knows that it'd be good to have the last of an entire species of creatures in captivity for many reasons and also because it wasn't hostile to her. She gives it away to scientists without batting an eye. After it saves her, since it still thinks she's its mother, I could see her developing some sort connection to it by being grateful for its sacrifice to ensure she could continue fighting and win but like I said not enough to consider it her child. Finally Fusion happens after other m anyway in Sakamoto's dumbass canon, so that shouldn't account into Other M's plot and her feelings at that time.

Oh I know. I'm just saying that Samus actually cares for the Metroid. Not like a mother but like someone who cares for other animals or something.

Also, your assumption for Samus saving the Metroid to give to scientists has not basis. I just wanted to point that out because assumptions like that is what causes people to create a false characterization of Samus.

Samus caring for the baby Metroid is from 1994's Super Metroid, a major plot point of the game, which was explaining the ending scene from 1991's Metroid II: Return of Samus on GameBoy. The TV commercials and comics surrounding Super Metroid's release touched on Samus' bond with the baby Metroid.

Super Metroid Game Over screen

Super Metroid intro

(Turning on the Japanese subtitles shows that Samus uses the term "baby Metroid" 3 times. This is also used in the Japanese box and manual. http://www.metroid-database.com/sm/super-metroid-20th-anniversary5.php)

Super Metroid manual - http://metroid.retropixel.net/games/metroid3/manual/

“Even this hardened bounty hunter could not destory the Metroid larva. When the larva sensed Samus’ presence, it clung to her as though it had found its mother.”​

1994 Super Metroid Promotional Video (Japan)
http://youtu.be/quR5-FEaM9c

"The Baby Metroid! I definitely heard it just now! The Baby Metroid is calling for me! I was the first thing it saw when it was born, so the Baby Metroid thinks I’m its mother. I’m the only one who can get it out of here!"​

Nintendo Power Super Metroid comic by Benimaru Itoh - 1994
http://www.metroid-database.com/manga/listing.php?vid=1

August 1994 - Shounen Oh Game Comics Super Metroid Manga
4 panel gag comic referencing Samus as the baby Metroid's mother

http://www.retrogamer.net/retro_games90/the-making-of-super-metroid/

Sakamoto: “As the last scene depicted Baby Metroid being born right in front of Samus’s eyes… well… there’s no real explanation for that in the course of the games, but that scene was another source of incentive for us in that we wanted to follow on from that ending, linking Metroid II with Super Metroid. We were determined to keep the same world-view and maintain the continuity of the story.”​

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4333/the_elegance_of_metroid_yoshio_.php

Sakamoto: "I was very moved by the last scene in Metroid II, and that stimulus became my motivation and inspiration in creating Super Metroid.

From Super Metroid on — these were mostly handheld games through this period — even if the partner changed, I was still working on the project. The central character of Samus, the strong fighting woman who didn’t shoot that baby Metroid at the end of Metroid II, was something that I made sure I protected, even as we went through all of these different projects with different partners.” - Yoshio Sakamoto​

Metroid II: Return of Samus (1991)
http://youtu.be/W4RYxluUBVo?t=4m
Samus defeats the Queen Metroid in an intense battle. The music changes to a lighter tune and the baby Metroid that hatches makes happy noises around Samus.

Metroid: Other M flashback (2010)

Metroid: Other M Samus encountering a baby Metroid and stressing out from her memories

Metroid: Other M - Samus going against her character by turning to shoot the baby Metroid and Adam stopping her.

 

[Ezalc]

Oh, guess I messed that up then :l. At least it looked cool to me honestly....no game can be entire horrid . I see exactly what you mean, so sorry about the confusion.

It looked great, the problem is that the context is completely different. If they hadn't changed the scene it would have been way better.

 

[Easy_D]

To me, Other M is to the Metroid serie what Rising is to Metal Gear.


Take that as you will...

Wow, I've never seen someone love Other M as much as you do.

 

[Christine]

The only thing anyone compliments is the gymnastics that Samus is doing in this clearly weightless Power Suit.

I don't know why. It's not as if there are any genuine momentum mechanics. The grapple beam is the worst offender, but Shinespark is also a joke.

 

[Toxi]

Mak, you don't need to post a million pictures to support your argument. We played Super Metroid and Metroid 2 and Other M. A gif of Samus not shooting the baby Metroid is the most unnecessary thing to post because we all know that scene.

Samus caring for the baby Metroid is from 1994's Super Metroid, a more plot point of the game, which was explaining the ending scene from 1991's Metroid II: Return of Samus on GameBoy. The TV commercials and comics surrounding Super Metroid's release touched on Samus' bond with the baby Metroid.

(Turning on the Japanese subtitles shows that Samus uses the term "baby Metroid" 3 times. This is also used in the Japanese box and manual.

Calling a baby Metroid a baby Metroid isn't indicative of a bond. It's like calling an elephant a baby elephant or a whale a baby whale. It's a baby animal.

Super Metroid manual - http://metroid.retropixel.net/games/metroid3/manual/
“Even this hardened bounty hunter could not destory the Metroid larva. When the larva sensed Samus’ presence, it clung to her as though it had found its mother.”
Metroid II: Return of Samus (1991)
http://youtu.be/W4RYxluUBVo?t=4m
Samus defeats the Queen Metroid in an intense battle. The music changes to a lighter tune and the baby Metroid that hatches makes happy noises around Samus.

These links are about the baby Metroid imprinting on Samus, not how Samus cares about the Metroid.

1994 Super Metroid Promotional Video (Japan)
http://youtu.be/quR5-FEaM9c

"The Baby Metroid! I definitely heard it just now! The Baby Metroid is calling for me! I was the first thing it saw when it was born, so the Baby Metroid thinks I’m its mother. I’m the only one who can get it out of here!"

Yeah, I really couldn't give a shit about a promo video.

Nintendo Power Super Metroid comic by Benimaru Itoh - 1994
http://www.metroid-database.com/manga/listing.php?vid=1

Or the same comic that introduced Armstrong Houston.

August 1994 - Shounen Oh Game Comics Super Metroid Manga
4 panel gag comic referencing Samus as the baby Metroid's mother

It's a gag comic. Why are you even bringing it up?

http://www.retrogamer.net/retro_games90/the-making-of-super-metroid/
Sakamoto: “As the last scene depicted Baby Metroid being born right in front of Samus’s eyes… well… there’s no real explanation for that in the course of the games, but that scene was another source of incentive for us in that we wanted to follow on from that ending, linking Metroid II with Super Metroid. We were determined to keep the same world-view and maintain the continuity of the story.”

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4333/the_elegance_of_metroid_yoshio_.php
Sakamoto: "I was very moved by the last scene in Metroid II, and that stimulus became my motivation and inspiration in creating Super Metroid.

From Super Metroid on — these were mostly handheld games through this period — even if the partner changed, I was still working on the project. The central character of Samus, the strong fighting woman who didn’t shoot that baby Metroid at the end of Metroid II, was something that I made sure I protected, even as we went through all of these different projects with different partners.” - Yoshio Sakamoto

Samus not shooting a baby Metroid she just met isn't a sign of a deeper bond. It's a sign of compassion and mercy. She didn't want to kill a seemingly harmless (and helpful) creature just because it was her mission. She tried to find another way.

Metroid: Other M flashback (2010)

Metroid: Other M Samus encountering a baby Metroid and stressing out from her memories

Metroid: Other M - Samus going against her character by turning to shoot the baby Metroid and Adam stopping her.

Don't cite Other M to defend Other M's garbage.

Again, Samus dropped off the Metroid for researchers to study. There is no way on Earth you can reconcile that with Other M's bizarre narrative of her seeing the Metroid as her child.

 

[Mak]

Mak, you don't need to post a million pictures to support your argument. We played Super Metroid and Metroid 2 and Other M. A gif of Samus not shooting the baby Metroid is the most unnecessary thing to post because we all know that scene.

Don't cite Other M to defend Other M's garbage.

Citing sources of information in a forum discussion is unnecessary?

Citing comics, manual quotes, and screens from a game from 1994 that contains a story element predating a game from 2010 is unnecessary?

Citing screens from the game being discussed to discuss the game that is being discussed is unnecessary? Really?

 

[jholmes]

B) She doesn't have to shoot him, but she should be a bit more upset with his treatment of her. At some point, you'd think she'd say:

"I'm really getting sick of this. All this time, you've done nothing but bark orders at me. No 'Nice job exterminating the Metroids, Lady' or 'Good work stopping the space pirates on Zebes, twice.'

I've accomplished so much since I left the Federation, and you act like I'm still a child. I'm starting to think that it's because I succeeded without you that you're having such a hard time respecting me, as if doing so will force you to acknowledge your bruised ego.

When I saw you again today, I was actually glad. I wanted to catch up, and to be reminded of the things I admired about you. But you know what, Adam? The only things you've reminded me of are the reasons that I left."

Wrote that in ten minutes, makes Samus sound ballsier and more in character than anything in Other M.

I think the Adam character is boring and the arc is pointless but my issue isn't so much Adam as the idea that the fact Samus isn't actively disobeying an older man throughout the game means she's been retconned into some doting housewife. I think the stuff you bring up is all fair.

Oh please, first off as others have mentioned Samus has displayed how she feels in other games when Ridley inevitably reappears. Secondly, even in older games if this was an issue they could easily animate it or find a way to make it apparent that something is wrong. Samus suddenly getting down on one knee or starting to slowly walk back then trying to run away or making it so the player can't fire at him in the beginning of the fight while he approaches her for some reason. It doesn't always have to show her face and make her talk to display her emotions. We'd easily be able to infer her emotional state from such things, none of which happened in other encounters with him.

We can't infer anything whatsoever and if you're just going to sit here and tell me you were reading Samus's mind when Thing A happened in Super Metroid or Thing B happened in Metroid Prime then I'm afraid you'll be having this conversation with someone else. None of which even begins to broach the whole damn point which is that her behaviour in Other M, at least where Ridley and the Metroid are concerned, makes sense, regardless of whether that's how someone would want Samus portrayed.

The cutscene literally portrays her as a little girl. As in Samus suddenly appears as a sobbing five year old child.

I'm not sure how you can call it hyperbole when that's what happens in the game.

So your problem with the scene where it shows Samus as a child is that, in that scene, Samus is a child?

I think we're done here. Well, I think I'm done here, anyway.

 

[Toxi]

Citing sources of information in a forum discussion is unnecessary?

Citing comics, manual quotes, and screens from a game from 1994 that contains a story element predating a game from 2010 is unnecessary?

Citing screens from the game being discussed to discuss the game that is being discussed is unnecessary? Really?

I don't have a problem with your links or pictures of things like comics. I like that you're supporting your points with evidence.

The problem is that you're posting gifs from Other M or Super Metroid or Metroid 2. We played those games. You don't need to post an image of Samus not shooting the baby Metroid because that was in the intro of Super Metroid and we all know the intro of Super Metroid. It makes it very hard to read or respond to your posts when there are a bunch of unnecessary gifs and pictures.

It's kinda like posting a screen to show us that Samus Aran is in fact a woman.

So your problem with the scene where it shows Samus as a child is that, in that scene, Samus is a child?

I think we're done here. Well, I think I'm done here, anyway.

b) that also doesn't happen in Other M -- Samus certainly isn't "literally reduced to being a crying child" and I'd say it's hyperbolic to say she's figuratively reduced to a crying child, for that matter.

You said something wrong and I pointed out it was wrong. Sorry if that makes you upset.

In the Ridley scene, Samus appears as a five year old girl when she's crying. How the hell did you think that wasn't reducing her to a crying child?

 

[Forkball]

Why do people keep mentioning the Prime games? Those aren't canon.

/Sakamoto

 

[Astral Dog]

Why do people keep mentioning the Prime games? Those aren't canon.

/Sakamoto

Not even Sakamoto`s manga is canon on Other M

 

[Toxi]

At this point we might as well cite the Captain N comic.

 

[jholmes]

You said something wrong and I pointed out it was wrong. Sorry if that makes you upset.

In the Ridley scene, Samus appears as a five year old girl when she's crying. How the hell did you think that wasn't reducing her to a crying child?

Thanks there heavyweight but I'm not upset just because I disagree with you. Keep telling me I "said something wrong" though, that'll advance the dialogue.

The game's trying to explain her motivations. I get the feeling a lot of people in this thread would just rather she have none.

 

[Ezalc]

I'm going to deal with these separately.

Samus caring for the baby Metroid is from 1994's Super Metroid, a major plot point of the game, which was explaining the ending scene from 1991's Metroid II: Return of Samus on GameBoy. The TV commercials and comics surrounding Super Metroid's release touched on Samus' bond with the baby Metroid.

Wrong. The plot of the game is to rescue the baby metroid which was stolen from the Federation labs. Now her going to rescue it could have some feeling involved about caring for this creature, however, I want to note that the question here is whether she cared about it like it was her child. The space pirates and Ridley/Mother Brain by extension are assholes as has been shown before. They are going to treat the creature horribly and try to use it somehow to bolster themselves in someway or another. The "feeling" here could be: 1) To stop them after they stole something which could potentially make them stronger 2) To stop them from mistreating the last animal of its species. So the reason for the rescue isn't some I can't live without the baby level thing but to stop what could be developed by an evil organization after studying it, something the Federation would do as well but that's beside the point.

Super Metroid Game Over screen

You have to get back the thing that was stolen from your employer.

Super Metroid intro

(Turning on the Japanese subtitles shows that Samus uses the term "baby Metroid" 3 times. This is also used in the Japanese box and manual. http://www.metroid-database.com/sm/super-metroid-20th-anniversary5.php)

First off I'm clearly basing myself on the English version here, second this shows the baby metroid's feelings towards Samus not the other way around. She's speaking very matter of factly as to what happened.

Super Metroid manual - http://metroid.retropixel.net/games/metroid3/manual/

“Even this hardened bounty hunter could not destory the Metroid larva. When the larva sensed Samus’ presence, it clung to her as though it had found its mother.”​

This doesn't serve as a good way to explain why she did not shoot it. It could imply she felt like she had to be merciful with the newborn instead of having any feeling of motherhood with it. The same as can be argued that she saw the value in preserving the last of the species. This is very vague.

1994 Super Metroid Promotional Video (Japan)
http://youtu.be/quR5-FEaM9c

"The Baby Metroid! I definitely heard it just now! The Baby Metroid is calling for me! I was the first thing it saw when it was born, so the Baby Metroid thinks I’m its mother. I’m the only one who can get it out of here!"​

Again this is a Japan specific thing and not only that it's part of the propaganda for the game. I don't consider this an accurate reflection of what Samus might feel towards it as it shows in the games. Even then most of that is just stating what happened, with the last part being the only one that might show that Samus cares for the metroid, but even that can be argued that she's the only one who can rescue it because she's the only one capable to fight against Ridley, Mother Brain, and the rest of the space pirates. So it's vague.

Nintendo Power Super Metroid comic by Benimaru Itoh - 1994
http://www.metroid-database.com/manga/listing.php?vid=1


August 1994 - Shounen Oh Game Comics Super Metroid Manga
4 panel gag comic referencing Samus as the baby Metroid's mother

First, who even is that guy? Second, it doesn't even make sense. Samus has been surprised and "not sensing danger" many times in other games and none of this has made her get hurt so much as it appears to show here. Another thing that's inconsistent with the rest of the in game universe. Also being distracted by the thoughts of something else doesn't mean that she feels that strongly towards the baby metroid. It's importance could just be that she was distracted in thinking about how to go about rescuing it or some such thing. Again, this is vague but it is also inconsistent. Third, really a gag manga? Are we supposed to pretend that's part of the characterization of the character and not just a joke about it?

http://www.retrogamer.net/retro_games90/the-making-of-super-metroid/

Sakamoto: “As the last scene depicted Baby Metroid being born right in front of Samus’s eyes… well… there’s no real explanation for that in the course of the games, but that scene was another source of incentive for us in that we wanted to follow on from that ending, linking Metroid II with Super Metroid. We were determined to keep the same world-view and maintain the continuity of the story.”​

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/4333/the_elegance_of_metroid_yoshio_.php

Sakamoto: "I was very moved by the last scene in Metroid II, and that stimulus became my motivation and inspiration in creating Super Metroid.

From Super Metroid on — these were mostly handheld games through this period — even if the partner changed, I was still working on the project. The central character of Samus, the strong fighting woman who didn’t shoot that baby Metroid at the end of Metroid II, was something that I made sure I protected, even as we went through all of these different projects with different partners.” - Yoshio Sakamoto​

And here we finally have something from Sakamoto himself. Now before I go any further, this is also the man who wrote Other M which has a fundamentally awful, inconsistent, and incoherent story. At the time though, that hadn't been the case yet so you know things might be different but I just want to put that out there first.

The first quote does nothing to show any sort of feeling Samus might have for the baby. He says they want to link the games' continuity and the world view through it. Ok the continuity is fine but world view would be what? It's themes? Metroid 2 isn't really about motherhood and Super Metroid doesn't seem all that much about it either. I can see an argument for the latter but even then to me it's more about professionalism in retrieving a stolen good than any specific feelings for the creature akin to being her own child.

The second quote says how Samus is a strong fighting woman (ironic to see this fromt he same man who wrote Other M's plot) who didn't shoot the baby metroid and he wanted to protect that. Ok that's fair and that's, again, just a statement of what happened. She did not in fact shoot the baby metroid even though her mission was to exterminate them. She is also a strong fighting woman. What we continue not to know is why she did not shoot it when it was born. The same way an argument can be made that she felt motherly feelings to it, for some random reason, the argument that she saw value in preserving and bringing back the last of the species to study in captivity can be made.

Metroid II: Return of Samus (1991)
http://youtu.be/W4RYxluUBVo?t=4m
Samus defeats the Queen Metroid in an intense battle. The music changes to a lighter tune and the baby Metroid that hatches makes happy noises around Samus.

After a tough battle there is a moment of reprieve where "the miracle of life" happens. The light tune could just be there to illustrate the fact that it's not hostile to Samus but also serves to show that it sees her as its mother, but that doesn't mean she feels the same way.

I chose to disregard the Other M gifs because that is exactly what I'm arguing against and as already shown by the difference with the Super Metroid CG scene in this game, this remade scene can also change things to try and justify it's clumsy and senseless "story". Second, even using it you can see that all she does is stand around surprised at the fact that it doesn't attack her which does not indicate a sudden feeling of motherhood in her. Third, in the last set of gifs you're just going against your own damn point. If she felt anything for that first baby metroid why would she shoot this one since it reminds her of it? Adam shot her in the back because he's an asshole he's going to kill them all anyway it's just more confirmation that the story is idiotic. Samus is not "acting" out of her character given that this whole game isn't even based on her actual character to begin with, so this is a non-argument.

We can't infer anything whatsoever and if you're just going to sit here and tell me you were reading Samus's mind when Thing A happened in Super Metroid or Thing B happened in Metroid Prime then I'm afraid you'll be having this conversation with someone else. None of which even begins to broach the whole damn point which is that her behaviour in Other M, at least where Ridley and the Metroid are concerned, makes sense, regardless of whether that's how someone would want Samus portrayed.

What? So you can make that argument but somebody else can't? And did you even see any of the videos they linked? It CLEARLY shows that Samus isn't freaking out when Ridley appears but is either annoyed, frustrated, both, or AT MOST surprised by the fact. Nowhere does she even come remotely close to the same reaction she had in Other M.

And no it really doesn't. She's faced him so many times before without having that reaction, why would she now? How does that make any sense? It doesn't make sense in this game to show her like that especially now of all times. IIRC the game doesn't even bother to mention that he killed her parents, so it just makes it an even bigger question as to why she'd react like that. And even if it did say that, it still doesn't validate it since she's battled him before and was perfectly fine. This reaction makes no sense no matter which way you look at it.

 

[Forkball]

At this point we might as well cite the Captain N comic.

Samus is too headstrong in this comic. NON CANON

 

[jholmes]

What? So you can make that argument but somebody else can't? And did you even see any of the videos they linked? It CLEARLY shows that Samus isn't freaking out when Ridley appears but is either annoyed, frustrated, both, or AT MOST surprised by the fact. Nowhere does she even come remotely close to the same reaction she had in Other M.

Point out anywhere in this thread or on these boards where I have said what Samus was thinking or feeling in any game other than Other M.