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The story of Metroid Other M

jholmes

Member
Where?

You keep talking about what you said and I can't even find where you said it.

What do you mean "where"? It's even on this same damn page.

Whoops, new page! It's on the last page.

Do you think that the Prime trilogy didn't show Samus having emotions?

Yes. I do not think Samus looking back as a rock hits her in the helmet is Samus exhibiting an emotion. Do I think the Prime games are better games? Yes. Do I think the way Samus is presented in the Prime games is better? Yes. What does Prime have to do with the discussion? Basically nothing, but you seem to think it's some brilliant observation you're making.
 

Toxi

Banned
What do you mean "where"? It's even on this same damn page.

Whoops, new page! It's on the last page.

Yes. I do not think Samus looking back as a rock hits her in the helmet is Samus exhibiting an emotion. Do I think the Prime games are better games? Yes. Do I think the way Samus is presented in the Prime games is better? Yes. What does Prime have to do with the discussion? Basically nothing, but you seem to think it's some brilliant observation you're making.
I'm not sure how closing the dead marine's eyes, casually waving without even looking back at the end of Prime 2, or sitting down in Skytown to look at the sunset while reminiscing about the dead hunters aren't demonstrating emotions.

Actions show emotions. A shrug is a show of emotion. A thumbs-up is a show of emotion. A clenched fist is a show of emotion. A straight posture conveys a different emotion from a slouched posture. A frantic run conveys a different emotion from a casual walk.

And Samus in the Prime trilogy shows emotions. Hell, if you look at the storyboards for Prime 2, you can clearly tell Retro meant for her to show emotions.
 
Just started playing this for the 3rd time. First and second time I only got 20 minutes in. I'm and hour into it now. Laughably bad character assassination of Samus. You're a bounty hunter that goes around random spaceships murkin goons of all kind yet you need weapons permissions and baby blah blah blah. Its so cringe smh. Gameplay is decent but I see why it gets the hate for sure.

And since when us retro metroid not canon?
 
I didn't follow XIII past the original game. Did Lightning get some weird motherhood arc as well?

I remember watching an event where Toriyama was talking about Lightning while hyping up LR. "Pseudo-daughter that he also sort of wants to bone" is a perfect descriptor for his relationship with the character.

Nope, but they did make her into a similarly inept and emotionless character.

For the record, I agree that giving Samus emotions is a fine path to take. I also agree that if you made Other M Samus an Elcor from Mass Effect, you'd hardly notice any difference in her personality.
 

Haunted

Member
Fuck Zero Suit Samus.

This is the only canon Samus I accept:

PowerSuit_Diagram.jpg


A 190cm, 99kg POWERHOUSE

I feel like the elephant in the room with Other M has always been the creepy idea that Adam is a self-insert for Sakamoto himself.

Samus has become to Sakamoto what Lightning is to Toriyama, a weird fictional pseudo-daughter that he also sort of wants to bone. The personality trait similarities between Lightning and Other M Samus are also pretty striking, and I honestly wonder if this is what passes for a strong female character in Japan's super-demeaning creative environment.
Are you saying we might be looking at an Itagaki -> Kasumi situation here?
 
Huh? But Metroid is what it is BECAUSE it kept like Alien/Aliens. Samus has PTSD because Ellen Ripley has PTSD in Aliens. Samus deals with emotional issues because Ripley deals with emotional issues in Aliens where she meets Newt and develops a maternal bond. Samus becomes part metroid because Ridley clone's DNA is mixed with xenomorph DNA in Alien Resurrection. The Federation has a dark underbelly that wants to use metroids for sinister purposes because that's what Weyland Yutani wants the xenomorphs for in Alien.

The Alien movies weren't about exploring hostile unknown worlds. Alien was about a mining crew being sent to a planet against their will by their employers who knew about and wanted them to bring back xenomorphs. Ripley barely manages to be the only survivor. Aliens is about a colony "accidentally" being built on that same planet and Ripley being forced against her will by her employers to accompany a group of marines back to the planet while dealing with the trauma. Alien 3 is about Ripley accidentally crashing on a planet for male prisoners and trying to survive the prisoners, a xenomorph, and her employers coming to collect and committing suicide to prevent them from getting the alien queen inside her. Alien Resurrection has Ripley being cloned and escaping a space station.

Metroid has added a lot more influence from the Alien franchise over the latest games.
Aliens handled PTSD 100000000000 times better than Other M did it's not even funny. Plus the reason for there being PTSD was because Ripley was not trained to take down unknown alien life forms, let alone even expecting to run into one. It makes sense in that regard, while Samus has been on countless missions before again re-encountering Ridley. Also regarding Ripley the whole mother theme made sense because she lost her daughter in the beginning, and found a new found bond with a HUMAN kid in need of a mom. How does that translate into Samus who nearly exterminated an entire species, and only keep the hatching for scientific research. The only remarkable thing that happened was the Metroid saving Samus, which I don't know why that would translate into a Mother-baby relationship (other than the fact that she is a Woman, aka dumb reasoning).

The mother relationship was really only emphasized in Aliens, because Cameron has a hard-on for themes with motherhood for some reason. It wasn't present at all in Alien, and Alien 3 was well Alien 3.. And citing Alien Resurrection for the whole Alien-Human bond, that movie was a disaster so I'd rather not consider that a good reason for such a relationship. Let alone that is only explored in fusion and has no real bearing on Other M's disaster plot because Other M came before that. I'll admit it would have been interesting to explore that more in later games, but not in some creepy "Mother to Aliens" plot like in Alien Resurrection.

The whole awe of the Alien and Aliens franchises come from the creature designs, and fear of the unknown. It's why it's so memorable because you want to know why some foreign alien crew were breeding these aliens, and in Aliens the life cycle was explored more in depth. Honestly the character of Ripley, while a good one, really hindered moving the Alien franchise forward because they were too afraid to not have an Alien movie with her in it. Just look at Alien Resurrection... It's when they abandoned the mystique around Aliens to make them generic canon fodder that the Aliens series took a nose dive (I guess Aliens did kind of start this, but it had good tension). That's why I'm glad Alien Isolation brought the series back to it's roots, but that more or less explored the tension and fear brought about an Alien.
 

Astral Dog

Member
Work can be fun, especially when your work is being a super-human living weapon. But I don't see her getting much social experience.

Still she becomes an afraid, naive teenager, does her relationship with Adam, that he is her best friend, father, the only person that understands her,etc. makes sense?
Is Adam really this fatherly figure that Samus says he is, because he does not appears so, Ian his brother i could believe more, and he only appeared for one scene and photo.

You are right that she is going to lack social experience though.
 

Toxi

Banned
The mother relationship was really only emphasized in Aliens, because Cameron has a hard-on for themes with motherhood for some reason.
Parenthood in general. Terminator 2 is about the terminator becoming John's father of sorts (and helping Sarah Connor become a better parent herself).
 

RagnarokX

Member
Aliens handled PTSD 100000000000 times better than Other M did it's not even funny. Plus the reason for there being PTSD was because Ripley was not trained to take down unknown alien life forms, let alone even expecting to run into one. It makes sense in that regard, while Samus has been on countless missions before again re-encountering Ridley. Also regarding Ripley the whole mother theme made sense because she lost her daughter in the beginning, and found a new found bond with a HUMAN kid in need of a mom. How does that translate into Samus who nearly exterminated an entire species, and only keep the hatching for scientific research. The only remarkable thing that happened was the Metroid saving Samus, which I don't know why that would translate into a Mother-baby relationship (other than the fact that she is a Woman, aka dumb reasoning).

The mother relationship was really only emphasized in Aliens, because Cameron has a hard-on for themes with motherhood for some reason. It wasn't present at all in Alien, and Alien 3 was well Alien 3.. And citing Alien Resurrection for the whole Alien-Human bond, that movie was a disaster so I'd rather not consider that a good reason for such a relationship. Let alone that is only explored in fusion and has no real bearing on Other M's disaster plot because Other M came before that. I'll admit it would have been interesting to explore that more in later games, but not in some creepy "Mother to Aliens" plot like in Alien Resurrection.

The whole awe of the Alien and Aliens franchises come from the creature designs, and fear of the unknown. It's why it's so memorable because you want to know why some foreign alien crew were breeding these aliens, and in Aliens the life cycle was explored more in depth. Honestly the character of Ripley, while a good one, really hindered moving the Alien franchise forward because they were too afraid to not have an Alien movie with her in it. Just look at Alien Resurrection... It's when they abandoned the mystique around Aliens to make them generic canon fodder that the Aliens series took a nose dive (I guess Aliens did kind of start this, but it had good tension). That's why I'm glad Alien Isolation brought the series back to it's roots, but that more or less explored the tension and fear brought about an Alien.

The reason Ripley has PTSD is because a xenomorph tried to kill her. PTSD has nothing to do with training. Soldiers, police officers, fire fighters, paramedics, etc get it by the truckloads. Even if it did, Samus had her traumatic event with Ridley when she was 3 years old.

The mother thing really isn't that big of a deal in Metroid. Samus mentions the baby metroid about 6 times in the whole game and most of those are in the intro, and when she does talk about it she doesn't really sound motherly about it. She just sounds grateful that it saved her and sad that it died. It's more MB that's the mother.

Still she becomes an afraid, naive teenager, does her relationship with Adam, that he is her best friend, father, the only person that understands her,etc. makes sense?
Is Adam really this fatherly figure that Samus says he is, because he does not appears so, Ian his brother i could believe more, and he only appeared for one scene and photo.

You are right that she is going to lack social experience though.

But she doesn't. The only times where she falters is when she sees Ridley come back from the dead and when Adam dies. She gets shocked for a minute Ridley reveals himself and sheds a tear when Adam dies. For the vast majority she presents herself outwardly as strong and confident. Inwardly she's very contemplative. Hell, when Anthony "dies" all she can do is contemplate if it hurt when he died and beat herself up for suspecting that he could have been her enemy. She could have stood to show more emotion there. The way Samus deals with other people is so... non-emotional. She's very socially awkward. She has trouble opening up to people. Ian is partly to blame for that. She was opening up but his death and her argument with Adam made her close herself off again.

They certainly could have shown why Samus respected Adam more, but can't we take her word for it that he was one of the only people that treated her with respect in the military? Don't we get kind of a hint what he was like in the past towards the end? He starts the game cold towards her because she ended their friendship, but he also opens up as the game goes on and shows that he's compassionate. He ended up doing the same thing Ian did, so they must have been a lot alike.
 
The reason Ripley has PTSD is because a xenomorph tried to kill her. PTSD has nothing to do with training. Soldiers, police officers, fire fighters, paramedics, etc get it by the truckloads. Even if it did, Samus had her traumatic event with Ridley when she was 3 years old.

The mother thing really isn't that big of a deal in Metroid. Samus mentions the baby metroid about 6 times in the whole game and most of those are in the intro, and when she does talk about it she doesn't really sound motherly about it. She just sounds grateful that it saved her and sad that it died. It's more MB that's the mother.



But she doesn't. The only times where she falters is when she sees Ridley come back from the dead and when Adam dies. She gets shocked for a minute Ridley reveals himself and sheds a tear when Adam dies. For the vast majority she presents herself outwardly as strong and confident. Inwardly she's very contemplative. Hell, when Anthony "dies" all she can do is contemplate if it hurt when he died and beat herself up for suspecting that he could have been her enemy. She could have stood to show more emotion there. The way Samus deals with other people is so... non-emotional. She's very socially awkward. She has trouble opening up to people. Ian is partly to blame for that. She was opening up but his death and her argument with Adam made her close herself off again.

They certainly could have shown why Samus respected Adam more, but can't we take her word for it that he was one of the only people that treated her with respect in the military? Don't we get kind of a hint what he was like in the past towards the end? He starts the game cold towards her because she ended their friendship, but he also opens up as the game goes on and shows that he's compassionate. He ended up doing the same thing Ian did, so they must have been a lot alike.
Except according to wikipedia, children are less likely to develop PTSD under the age of 10.. I understand war veterans, etc, develop PTSD, but there was no plot indication that Samus was dealing with this before that event occurred, let alone we aren't told about Samus' trauma as a child in Other M I believe. No build up, no nothing, just thrown in there. If they built up some kind of story arch where Samus didn't want to get back with her team because she was dealing with these issues (like Ripley in Aliens), it would make more sense in the plot. The fact that she overcame this milestone. But nope it's not, it's just thrown out there.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
Lol.

Other M says the Space Pirates were originally wildlife and would to become feral idiots without Mother Brain to command them. The Space Pirates have always been intelligent, way before they even made Mother Brain their leader. There's also how they rebuilt Mother Brain, Ridley, and the entire base on Planet Zebes right before Super Metroid. Zero Mission too, since they acted on their own well after Mother Brain died in that game. But that can't be canon because Other M says so.

Other M also says the suit is a part of Samus' concentration, which negates the entire plot of Fusion due to how the suit works. So that can't be canon.

If we go by Other M's canonical timeline, where it should go like this

Metroid/ZM>2>SM>OM>Fusion

It really goes like this

2>OM

Only thing not canon is Other M.

I think in Other M it was explained it was the Zebesian Space Pirates that went feral after a while without a leader. Only thing I can think of is that Mother a Brain after the defeat in Zero Mission, after being rebuilt she brainwashed the Zebesians hard. Enough to become feral?

The Space Pirates seem to be doing just fine without Mother Brain in this not-Prime game..

Also without Mother Brain the pirates managed to rebuild Mother Brain herself. If the pirates only had their sentience and intelligence from Mother Brain, how did they manage to rebuild Mother Brain in Super Metroid?

It makes me wonder why they never rebuilt Mother Brain after Super Metroid, if they have the tech,it shouldn't be hard? Or that Mother Brain rebuilt herself?
 

Toxi

Banned
It makes me wonder why they never rebuilt Mother Brain after Super Metroid, if they have the tech,it shouldn't be hard? Or that Mother Brain rebuilt herself?
It's probably because Zebes exploded. Good luck putting Humpty Dumpty back together after that.
 

Jezan

Member
People are complaining about Other M's story, yet they leave out the biggest plot hole... from Super Metroid!

What was the deal with the big gold statue of all the bosses? Who built that? Why did it sink when you defeated all of them? Shit makes no sense.
Because the gold statue didn't make Samus cry, the statue cries instead.

You keep carrying on about how she's shown as a crying child because of Ridley and now you're saying the game doesn't explain why she's frightened of Ridley.

Hey, remember when I said this thread was doing a great job of being on point? Yeah me neither.
You see Samus as a little kid, but never WHY she is afraid of Ridley. Did they show Samus' parents dying? No, we only see Samus as a child. It doesn't explain anything, just one minute of Samus' as a child. Nothing else.
 

Griss

Member
The plot has been pretty well thrashed out by now, so I'll just say that I agree with every word of the TV Tropes analysis, that I had to walk out of the room in anger or due to cringe multiple times (to this day the only game in 31 years to make me do that) and that this game was a major reason I refused to buy a Wii U at launch, the salt was still that strong.

I'll also add that when people are still upset 5 years later, you know you fucked up. Most things are forgiven and forgotten in a year. Only the very worst ones and biggest disappointments linger like this (see FF13), and tons of Metroid fans are still upset. We still get threads like this all the time, and they always attract angry posts (like this one).

I will say, though, that I don't understand the view that 'the idea to give Samus a character was a good one, but executed horribly'. Why? Why was that a good idea? It seemed like a fucking terrible idea before Other M, and a disastrous one afterwards. Samus is one of the all-time 'inhabitable' game heroes. Not a blank slate, no, but close, and inhabitable. Prime's visor is one of the all time greatest examples of literally putting you in the hero's shoes. There's no reason to mess with that, that was a pretty core feature of Metroid.

Secondly, Metroid games have never had particularly coherent or involved stories requiring dialogue or conversation. Even as a huge Metroid fan, Samus' back-story was generic at best, and cheesy D-list comic book sci-fi at worst. This is not the strength of the Metroid series, and thankfully none of it is ever really seen in the games (save the end of Zero Mission, where it's equally weak). The famous manga is fairly abysmal, but you could ignore that if you're just into the games. This story-writing stuff is just not what the people who make Metroid are good at, and it's not what people want or expect from it, and that's fine. They always seemed to know that, and just put Samus on her own on a planet with bad guys. When they went further, Fusion, results were mixed and criticised. So why travel further in this direction? Further towards shite blockbuster AAA games that live by big-budget cutscenes and shit gameplay? When you're not even good at the cut-scenes but are amazing at the gameplay. When you can plop Samus on a planet on her own and fans will be happy?

I mean, take the Legend of Zelda. They're actually properly narrative driven games, with plenty of dialogue and character interactions, and yet people think Link should forever remain a blank slate. That's a situation where it would make sense, if they wanted to, to introduce a personality to a long-loved character, but I see both sides of the argument there. With Metroid however, there was just no reason for it, and I can't understand anyone who wanted it, or who defends it now. It was clearly a bad fit for this particular series of games, one from a guy who decided he wanted to play at being a Hollywood writer / director and had had too much success for anyone to tell him what a shit idea it really was and that his writing was sub-fanfic level garbage. If Nintendo had wanted a blockbuster narrative cutscene infested game like the 360/PS3 had, they should have done something from scratch.

And as always, if Nintendo cared about their girl fans they'd strike Other M's story off as no longer cannon, and admit it was a bad mis-step. It is blatantly sexist, and makes my skin crawl to this day. If Other M 'stands' in Metroid's fiction, then I don't believe Samus' character will ever be redeemed.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Except according to wikipedia, children are less likely to develop PTSD under the age of 10.. I understand war veterans, etc, develop PTSD, but there was no plot indication that Samus was dealing with this before that event occurred, let alone we aren't told about Samus' trauma as a child in Other M I believe. No build up, no nothing, just thrown in there. If they built up some kind of story arch where Samus didn't want to get back with her team because she was dealing with these issues (like Ripley in Aliens), it would make more sense in the plot. The fact that she overcame this milestone. But nope it's not, it's just thrown out there.
The article wikipedia cited: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0015844/

"No consensus has emerged as to how to measure PTSD symptoms in children aged 7 years or younger."

"In various studies of the effects of road traffic accidents (not resulting in an overnight stay in hospital) rates of 25–30% are reported. The study of 200 young survivors of the sinking of the cruise ship Jupiter (Yule et al, 2000) reported an incidence of PTSD of 51%."

"The implication of this for the NHS is that while the numbers of children and young people experiencing PTSD at any one point in time may be approaching 1% and represents a significant level of morbidity in any community, by way of comparison, in adults PTSD has a point prevalence of 1.5–3%, and schizophrenia in adults has a prevalence of 1%."

I think watching your family and entire colony get murdered by a giant space dragon would definitely cause trauma. Scientists made a baby afraid of rats by just making a loud noise whenever he was near one.

Samus' traumatic event is shown in the Japanese version of Fusion and the commercial for Other M. I don't know why they didn't show it in the game, but it is canon.

Why would Samus be apprehensive about going on the mission? The only thing she has PTSD about is Ridley, and Samus says that she thinks Ridley is gone for good. And being sudden is kinda what PTSD is. You can get yourself so that you aren't affected by it, but you can always relapse. I think seeing the dragon that killed your parents come back to life after blowing up an entire planet with him on it is certainly cause to lose your shit for 1 minute.
 

Poyunch

Member
At least the boss fights were cool. The suitless section and the secret end section was pretty good as well. Idk it's a pretty good game if you pretend it's not a Metroid game and ignore the story.

edit: It also got the Screw Attack right in a 3D Metroid. something the Prime games couldn't.
 
The article wikipedia cited: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0015844/

"No consensus has emerged as to how to measure PTSD symptoms in children aged 7 years or younger."

"In various studies of the effects of road traffic accidents (not resulting in an overnight stay in hospital) rates of 25–30% are reported. The study of 200 young survivors of the sinking of the cruise ship Jupiter (Yule et al, 2000) reported an incidence of PTSD of 51%."

"The implication of this for the NHS is that while the numbers of children and young people experiencing PTSD at any one point in time may be approaching 1% and represents a significant level of morbidity in any community, by way of comparison, in adults PTSD has a point prevalence of 1.5–3%, and schizophrenia in adults has a prevalence of 1%."

I think watching your family and entire colony get murdered by a giant space dragon would definitely cause trauma. Scientists made a baby afraid of rats by just making a loud noise whenever he was near one.

Samus' traumatic event is shown in the Japanese version of Fusion and the commercial for Other M. I don't know why they didn't show it in the game, but it is canon.

Why would Samus be apprehensive about going on the mission? The only thing she has PTSD about is Ridley, and Samus says that she thinks Ridley is gone for good. And being sudden is kinda what PTSD is. You can get yourself so that you aren't affected by it, but you can always relapse. I think seeing the dragon that killed your parents come back to life after blowing up an entire planet with him on it is certainly cause to lose your shit for 1 minute.
I'd agree that the studies aren't as definitive, but to argue that you can make a baby fear a rat would hold when they are 20+ years of age would be more relevant (don't know if they have studied this). But anyway my point was it wasn't set up in the plot that she has PSTD or that she has ever had any PTSD episodes in the past (or the possibility that she could have PSTD). So all it becomes is a one off of her character for no reason. So there is literally no point to put it in the game other than for lazy writing and to make her appear vulnerable. Nor is it explained why in Super Metroid she didn't have PTSD flash back, because she killed Ridley in the first Metroid (and the whole base self destructed).

edit: Also I'm aware that Samus had her parents/colony whiped out by Ridley, but it isn't even mentioned in Other M (other than a commercial). There really wasn't any setup for it.
 

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
They certainly could have shown why Samus respected Adam more, but can't we take her word for it that he was one of the only people that treated her with respect in the military?

No, because that is A) Never shown, B) Actively shown to be false via flashbacks, and C) Incredibly shitty writing. The monologuing in Other M is an abominable way to tell a story, even a good one, which Other M is not, compounding the problem. You want me to know something about your character? Show it to me. Don't just have the character tell me about it and assume I'm going to believe them, especially when what's then shown actively contradicts what the character said.
 
edit: Also I'm aware that Samus had her parents/colony whiped out by Ridley, but it isn't even mentioned in Other M (other than a commercial). There really wasn't any setup for it.

Indeed, that was one of my main criticisms with it. The plot assumes that you have familiarity with the Japanese manga in order to understand the references Samus makes to it, but that doesn't even make sense because (a) Other M directly contradicts the manga (i.e. Samus got over her fears in that installment and thrashed Ridley after he deliberately goaded her by mentioning how he killed her parents), and (b) we never got any sense that the death of her parents was something that Samus seriously dwelled on at any point in this franchise, adaptation or otherwise.

And to the person above who was saying Samus doesn't show any emotions in the Prime series - come on. Go back and watch the 100% ending for Prime 1 - the haunted look on her face (along with shutting her eyes for a moment) when she sees the ruined Luminoth sanctuary says more than any half-baked monologue in Other M ever could.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Loved da game.

Are nerds still cryin about the Samos in othe m not matching the samus from their imagination?
After all of the valid criticisms of the god awful plot of the game seen in this thread, this is your contribution? Try reading the thread about why we "nerds" are "crying" pver the character assassination of an iconic character that btw, wasn't just part of our imagination.
 
At least the boss fights were cool. The suitless section and the secret end section was pretty good as well. Idk it's a pretty good game if you pretend it's not a Metroid game and ignore the story.

edit: It also got the Screw Attack right in a 3D Metroid. something the Prime games couldn't.

Pretty much. It was fun, and I more or less agree with the OPs complaints. I don't mind the story, personally.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
People also overblow her reaction. It lasts about one minute and she doesn't turn into a crying girl. She screams "Ridley?! No, it can't be!" And stares at him while remembering what happened the first time she met him when she was 3. She snaps out of her flashback just before Ridley grabs her and actively tries to break free when he does.
She turns off her armor and collapses into a fetal position.

It's hard to overblow a reaction like that.
 

Szadek

Member
The problem isn't that samus shows more emotions in this game,but that her behavior contradtics everything we know about her.

First of all,at this point in the timeline samus has no reason to fear ridley.
She kicked his ass some many times before with much higher things at stake and now she is a affraid of him?
So much that she suddenly needs the procetion of a man?

Secondly,samus is way to fraggile for a bounty hunter that blow up serveral planets and wiped out serval species.
In MP3 she had no problem killing her former allies and she was also the only bounter hunter that managed to withstand the corrpution of phazon.

Finally,the whole "samus cares so much about the baby" plot point makes very little sense,because she had no problem to hand it over to scientists.
 
After Smash U doubled down on the Other M lore, we might as well accept that current Samus is a wimpy, boring loser and hope that the next game is a reboot.

I'm going to bring up values dissonance again. Here's an interesting article on Japanese fans reacting to Other M:

http://legendsoflocalization.com/what-does-japan-think-of-metroid-other-m/

The criticism of Samus's character is still there, but it doesn't seem to zero-in on specific examples (Ridley, Adam, etc) and is largely overshadowed by gameplay complaints.

If anime is any indication, submissive and emotionless women are adored by Japanese men. Adam and Samus's relationship is extremely common in Japanese romance stories, where a meek woman is awestruck by a man whose sheer cool-factor makes him seem larger-than-life. She is, literally, the Sakura to his Sasuke. Yes, Metroid: Other M is Naruto-caliber.

Are you saying we might be looking at an Itagaki -> Kasumi situation here?

Ah, there's another one. At least Samus and Lightning are adults though.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
People are complaining about Other M's story, yet they leave out the biggest plot hole... from Super Metroid!

What was the deal with the big gold statue of all the bosses? Who built that? Why did it sink when you defeated all of them? Shit makes no sense.

They didn't deserve the outstanding achievement trophy if they lost.
 
The problem with Other M is it lacks a subtitle. It should of been subtitled:

Starring Adam "The Man" Malkovich



and his number one fan girl, Samus "the childish girl" Aran
 

RagnarokX

Member
I'd agree that the studies aren't as definitive, but to argue that you can make a baby fear a rat would hold when they are 20+ years of age would be more relevant (don't know if they have studied this). But anyway my point was it wasn't set up in the plot that she has PSTD or that she has ever had any PTSD episodes in the past (or the possibility that she could have PSTD). So all it becomes is a one off of her character for no reason. So there is literally no point to put it in the game other than for lazy writing and to make her appear vulnerable. Nor is it explained why in Super Metroid she didn't have PTSD flash back, because she killed Ridley in the first Metroid (and the whole base self destructed).

edit: Also I'm aware that Samus had her parents/colony whiped out by Ridley, but it isn't even mentioned in Other M (other than a commercial). There really wasn't any setup for it.

Of course things that happened in your past can affect you decades later. You might not even remember the event that caused it: http://www.medicaldaily.com/ptsd-adults-may-develop-without-memory-childhood-trauma-298412

It's real science, and it's not an uncommon trope to have a character dealing with some kind of mental condition arising from a traumatic childhood event.

Obviously they should have shown the flashback in more detail for the sake of those who were unfamiliar with Samus' past. They were taking for granted that fans would be familiar with that despite lack of exposure of those events in the west.

I don't think the point of the scene was to make her vulnerable since it only lasts a minute and upon snapping out of it she goes right back into badass mode. I think the point of it was to give Anthony more of a reason to help out and "die" since Samus is so powerful and everyone else is so weak in comparison.
No, because that is A) Never shown, B) Actively shown to be false via flashbacks, and C) Incredibly shitty writing. The monologuing in Other M is an abominable way to tell a story, even a good one, which Other M is not, compounding the problem. You want me to know something about your character? Show it to me. Don't just have the character tell me about it and assume I'm going to believe them, especially when what's then shown actively contradicts what the character said.
Showing and not telling is better because it engages the player/viewer more. Just because the game told more than it showed doesn't mean that the information wasn't conveyed. The game didn't show events in Samus and Adam's past that showed why she liked him apart from how "Any objections, lady?" was a way that Adam joked around with her and showed his respect for her and how Samus knows Adam did the right thing in letting his brother die so that 300 people could live, but it did show in the present that Adam deeply cared about Samus. It's not a stretch to assume that his past self was like that, too.
She turns off her armor and collapses into a fetal position.

It's hard to overblow a reaction like that.

Well, you just overblew it by describing something that doesn't happen...

She says "Ridley?! It can't be!" and backs away slowly for a minute as Ridley approaches her. Anthony yells to her and she snaps out of it, and then Ridley grabs her and flies around as she tries to break free by punching him. Ridley's grip causes her suit to malfunction.
 
She says "Ridley?! It can't be!" and backs away slowly for a minute as Ridley approaches her. Anthony yells to her and she snaps out of it, and then Ridley grabs her and flies around as she tries to break free by punching him. Ridley's grip causes her suit to malfunction.

I want you to stand in front of a lion for a minute while you reflect on those school lessons you had on lions and those episodes of National Geographic showing lions hunting.

Standing still for one entire minute in front of a very deadly threat that actively wants to kill you is stupidity to the point of parody. I'd also argue she wasn't fighting to break free as her suit doesn't deactivate until he grabs her and as we know now through this wonderful game the suit deactivates when she's under emotional distress moreso than physical harm.

Honestly if Ridley just showed up and Samus went "What!? It can't be!" and then Ridley grabbed her, I'd be fine with the scene completely. But instead she just stands there for an entire minute having a panic attack whose cause was never explained and is never brought up, mentioned, or resolved just to be brushed aside mere seconds after it is introduced.

Showing and not telling is better because it engages the player/viewer more. Just because the game told more than it showed doesn't mean that the information wasn't conveyed. The game didn't show events in Samus and Adam's past that showed why she liked him apart from how "Any objections, lady?" was a way that Adam joked around with her and showed his respect for her and how Samus knows Adam did the right thing in letting his brother die so that 300 people could live, but it did show in the present that Adam deeply cared about Samus. It's not a stretch to assume that his past self was like that, too.

Do you notice how many assumptions, how many guesses, how many theories, and how much you're projecting in order to make Other M's plot semi-coherent when no other game ever needed such things to make sense?

After all these mental gymnastics you're doing that you can accept Other M's plot, why don't you see that it's a very serious fault with the story that Other M required you to do all that? You've applied duct tape to a leaky boat so it can handle your weight for a time without sinking, but if any more weight is applied it'll pop at the seams.
 

televator

Member
It's the same with Wars prequels. It's hard to accept that the guy who created the franchise doesn't understand it anymore.

Well then I'd like to present a shit ton of rationalizations and metal acrobatics for my case about how the portrayal of Anakin Skywalker in the prequels was actually a work of pure genius.

I can't do that. Not even in joking.
 
Honestly if Ridley just showed up and Samus went "What!? It can't be!" and then Ridley grabbed her, I'd be fine with the scene completely. But instead she just stands there for an entire minute having a panic attack whose cause was never explained and is never brought up, mentioned, or resolved just to be brushed aside mere seconds after it is introduced.

It sure was polite for Ridley to sit there and just roar at Samus while she was having her mental breakdown though. Imagine if he took the moment of weakness as a chance to quickly swipe her directly in the laval.

Cool chap that Ridley.

It really is a shame though, since the actual Ridley fight and music are actually decent (for Other M), but it's got so much baggage now, you can't really enjoy the actual gameplay part as well. Probably the best boss fight in the game and the only memorable piece of music...
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
She says "Ridley?! It can't be!" and backs away slowly for a minute as Ridley approaches her. Anthony yells to her and she snaps out of it, and then Ridley grabs her and flies around as she tries to break free by punching him. Ridley's grip causes her suit to malfunction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrwN5jS4bt4

I see her suit melting. I her her gibbering over the com like a little girl while Adam shouts at her. I see her do NOTHING until Anthony steps up. So human!

But do I think Samus shouldn't be allowed to feel fear when she sees Ridley? No, and I think the argument is preposterous. If Samus is a real character with a human dialogue her emotions should go beyond anger and determination. You disagree? Bully for you. Telling me I'm an Other M "defender" isn't going to shame me into agreeing with you.
The problem is nothing the game shows gives Samus a good reason for reacting like that making it an illogical to the narrative and therefore an inhuman response.

Just saying "You're mad because they gave her emotions! doesn't really address the problems with the scene at all.
 

Astral Dog

Member
It sure was polite for Ridley to sit there and just roar at Samus while she was having her mental breakdown though. Imagine if he took the moment of weakness as a chance to quickly swipe her directly in the laval.

Cool chap that Ridley.

It really is a shame though, since the actual Ridley fight and music are actually decent (for Other M), but it's got so much baggage now, you can't really enjoy the actual gameplay part as well. Probably the best boss fight in the game and the only memorable piece of music...

the best and only other memorable tune is the piano medley


And we got that dumb suit malfunctioning sequence that messed up the flow.. I really really really hate the idea that Samus has a suit that can malfunction and completely expose herself . It's a terrible idea if you're on a hostile planet to have a suit that can malfunction and kill you. I still think the series should keep it like it's influences (Alien and Aliens). Exploring hostile "unknown" worlds. Not fleshing out a Universe with a galactic federation, and space pirates that continue to breed Metroids in some inane plot..

The problem with the BOTTLE SHIP is that it's basically the same setting as the BSL. It feels like retreading the same territory. The best environmental moments were the holographic rooms, I'll agree.

I will respond to this again because i believe an abandoned space station is an amazing setting for a Metroid game, yes Fusion did it first, but there was a lot of potential in expanding that concept for a console game, i say "was" because Other M execution was flawed like the rest of the game, but imagine a Retro game based on a space station instead of Other M for example,filled with lore, even Other M way of having Samus with a team of Federation soldiers could work and add tension as they are killed.

The Bottle Ship (you dont have to spell it in caps, i know what it is) main problem was that its too similar to Fusion but you can make it different enough to work.

Other M on a planet would still have been Other M.but a station can be as complex to navigate and atmospheric as a planet, now the next game should be on a planet anyways, as these games already did it, but its an interesting concept.

About the Federation and Space Pirates, i agree and Metroid Corruption is guilty of this too, the Federation captain with the stupid hat got annoying, the,Space Pirates had Ridley again without any explanation,they even brought back "Mother Brain" with a vague connection that did not made any sense.
 

MrBadger

Member
To me, Other M is to the Metroid serie what Rising is to Metal Gear.


Take that as you will...

I get where you're coming from, but Other M tries to be a part of the main series by expanding on plot points and characters from existing games, while rising doesn't even attempt to seriously contribute to the Metal Gear canon and would rather have us fight ridiculous foes with shit eating grins.

Plus Other M's combat is shit and Rising's is amazing but I digress
 

Anura

Member
I honestly don't even see a point in expanding the space station concept. Fusion did it so well that the atmosphere and tension overshadowed the linearity and talking. Heck, it was so good that it still become one of the best entries in the series despite those normally crippling flaws.
 

K' Dash

Member
I honestly don't even see a point in expanding the space station concept. Fusion did it so well that the atmosphere and tension overshadowed the linearity and talking. Heck, it was so good that it still become one of the best entries in the series despite those normally crippling flaws.

I can honestly say that no handheld game, not even Silet Hill on PSP with headphones, made me shit bricks like SA-X walking on that Hallway below you.

fuck. that. shit.

 

RagnarokX

Member
I want you to stand in front of a lion for a minute while you reflect on those school lessons you had on lions and those episodes of National Geographic showing lions hunting.

Standing still for one entire minute in front of a very deadly threat that actively wants to kill you is stupidity to the point of parody. I'd also argue she wasn't fighting to break free as her suit doesn't deactivate until he grabs her and as we know now through this wonderful game the suit deactivates when she's under emotional distress moreso than physical harm.

Honestly if Ridley just showed up and Samus went "What!? It can't be!" and then Ridley grabbed her, I'd be fine with the scene completely. But instead she just stands there for an entire minute having a panic attack whose cause was never explained and is never brought up, mentioned, or resolved just to be brushed aside mere seconds after it is introduced.



Do you notice how many assumptions, how many guesses, how many theories, and how much you're projecting in order to make Other M's plot semi-coherent when no other game ever needed such things to make sense?

After all these mental gymnastics you're doing that you can accept Other M's plot, why don't you see that it's a very serious fault with the story that Other M required you to do all that? You've applied duct tape to a leaky boat so it can handle your weight for a time without sinking, but if any more weight is applied it'll pop at the seams.
I said she backed away slowly, not stood still. What's the point of pointing out what is rational to do when we're talking about a mental disorder? If a super-intelligent space lion killed your parents and tried to eat you when you were 3 years old and throughout your life you faced your fears and confronted that lion and became convinced that in your final encounter you permanently wiped that lion from existence since you blew up an entire planet with the lion on it wouldn't you lose your shit if that lion came back from the dead against all odds? It would be unbelieveable if you didn't lose your shit.

We know that Ridley killing her parents and attacking her is considered canon regardless of the manga. It was canonized in the Japanese version of Fusion and they included it as a scene for the commercial for this very game. What assumptions and mental gymnastics do you think I'm making. Samus had a traumatic event with Ridley in the past and her reaction in that cutscene makes absolutely no sense as anything other than PTSD. And they literally reference Samus being 3 years old and being confronted by Ridley. Honestly you'd have to go through more hoops to make it something else. You explain why Samus suddenly lost her shit specifically when Ridley revealed he was not dead and not anywhere else in the game. Why does she so quicky snap out of it and then beat Ridley to a bloody pulp and not act scared at all? Why does it reference her 3 year old self being in the same situation?

It sure was polite for Ridley to sit there and just roar at Samus while she was having her mental breakdown though. Imagine if he took the moment of weakness as a chance to quickly swipe her directly in the laval.

Cool chap that Ridley.

It really is a shame though, since the actual Ridley fight and music are actually decent (for Other M), but it's got so much baggage now, you can't really enjoy the actual gameplay part as well. Probably the best boss fight in the game and the only memorable piece of music...
He was taunting her. He's an egotistical asshole. He grabs her as soon as he realizes she snapped out of it before she could get a chance to activate her plasma beam, which according to this game is necessary to deal any real damage to Ridley.

What if they had him talk? I think they were afraid of having him talk because of Bowser in Mario Sunshine, but would you be against him talking through text translations of space pirate language?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrwN5jS4bt4

I see her suit melting. I her her gibbering over the com like a little girl while Adam shouts at her. I see her do NOTHING until Anthony steps up. So human!

The problem is nothing the game shows gives Samus a good reason for reacting like that making it an illogical to the narrative and therefore an inhuman response.

Just saying "You're mad because they gave her emotions! doesn't really address the problems with the scene at all.

Um... the scene doesn't happen at all like you described it. She doesn't deactivate her suit and curl up into the fetal position. She backs away while panicking, snaps out of it, gets grabbed, her suit malfunctions, she falls, reactivates her suit, and lands.

I understand that the game itself does not literally and specifically address her traumatic incident with Ridley and it should have for the sake of those that did not know about it, but it's silly to keep acting like this after you know about it. It isn't a normal response. Samus doesn't act remotely like that at any point elsewhere. You know what happened between her and Ridley must be serious to make Samus lose her cool. It's a shame they didn't make that into a cutscene cuz it would have been cool to see. It was cool to see it in the commercial. But it's not exactly hard to find out about it.
 
It continues to boggle my mind that there are people who actually defend Other M's travesty of a story. It is seriously one of the worst stories I've ever experienced in any medium.
 

RagnarokX

Member
It continues to boggle my mind that there are people who actually defend Other M's travesty of a story. It is seriously one of the worst stories I've ever experienced in any medium.
I'm not. It's mediocre at best. But I dislike misperceptions people make turning it into something worse than it is. Why be so resistant to information that can make you less miserable about something?
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Yeah, I can't see how you can watch that cutscene with Samus completely non-responsive and panicking and say "she walked backward a little."

I understand that the game itself does not literally and specifically address her traumatic incident with Ridley and it should have for the sake of those that did not know about it, but it's silly to keep acting like this after you know about it. It isn't a normal response. Samus doesn't act remotely like that at any point elsewhere. You know what happened between her and Ridley must be serious to make Samus lose her cool. It's a shame they didn't make that into a cutscene cuz it would have been cool to see. It was cool to see it in the commercial. But it's not exactly hard to find out about it.

If you read the manga, she basically put that behind her long ago by the point of Other M. There's no reason for her to backslide.

Of course, the Manga also doesn't have that gross relationship between her and Adam and she wasn't made into private Benajmin when she worked with the space army people either.

Other M is terrible.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Yeah, I can't see how you can watch that cutscene with Samus completely non-responsive and panicking and say "she walked backward a little."



If you read the manga, she basically put that behind her long ago by the point of Other M. There's no reason for her to backslide.

Of course, the Manga also doesn't have that gross relationship between her and Adam and she wasn't made into private Benajmin when she worked with the space army people either.

Other M is terrible.

But PTSD isn't something you just put behind you. Is there no reason for people in the real world to have relapses, too? Is the cause of your trauma coming back from the dead after having an entire planet exploded with him on it not a good reason for a relapse? Do you seriously think it's not likely for a person to lose their cool in that specific situation?

"In some instances, people may relapse and begin to experience symptoms after they have ceased therapy and stopped taking medication. This can happen even years after the end of the treatment." http://www.psychguides.com/guides/ptsd-post-traumatic-stress-disorder/

The really important question is:
Why is Samus losing her cool right now and not the other 5 times she fought ridley already?
Because, unlike those times, she was absolutely certain he was gone for good this time since she blew up an entire planet with him on it. She says at the beginning of the game that she thinks he's gone for good. And then there he is. Back again after THAT. What the hell does she have to do to get rid of him?
 
But PTSD isn't something you just put behind you. Is there no reason for people in the real world to have relapses, too? Is the cause of your trauma coming back from the dead after having an entire planet exploded with him on it not a good reason for a relapse? Do you seriously think it's not likely for a person to lose their cool in that specific situation?

"In some instances, people may relapse and begin to experience symptoms after they have ceased therapy and stopped taking medication. This can happen even years after the end of the treatment." http://www.psychguides.com/guides/ptsd-post-traumatic-stress-disorder/
What about in Super Metroid where Ridley had previously died and the base self destructed?
 
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