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[Kobun Heat]

Here's my specific list of disagreements:

7. The fact that the Wii is going through some growing pains as developers (including Nintendo!) struggle to find what works and what doesn't is not in any way an indication that it'll go down in history as a mistake. The same thing happened with DS, except the Wii is doing significantly better than DS did in its first few months.

6. True; this'll be on my list.

5. Most people assumed that when Iwata said "customers don't want online games," he meant that Nintendo didn't want to make them. But with hindsight we know it means that Nintendo was going to attempt to get more customers to try online gaming, hence their unique approach to online. Running a giant money pit like Xbox Live was never in their business plan. For all of hardcore gamers' complaints about Friend Codes, I'm not sure classifying it as a "mistake" really works when WFC seems to be a big success for them.

4. Yes.

3. Okay.

2. The N64 went wrong by not using CDs, but wait: the control pad was a problem? No way. The "dream team" wasn't a mistake, either, it was just PR spin to cover up the fact that they were the only publishers willing to give it a shot.

1. Pretty much.

 

[Oblivion]

So you made this piece because you were tired of the abuse Sony's been getting?

Edit: Wait, I think I read your post wrong.

 

[frankthurk]

Though I'm curious to see if the Wii does paint them into a corner eventually, I think I have to agree with it's too much of a damn success right now to really be considered a mistake.

 

[Y2Kev]

Here's a real, true list:

1. Wii
2. DS
3. Non-games
4. Bad graphics
5. No online play
6. Wii
7. Wii

Yep.

 

[Roat]

No offense, but the writing and language used really came across as what I'd expect in a rant on a forum rather than an article.

The problem is it never gives Nintendo a bone; usually in articles such as these a good part of it is made up of humour and concessions; this one just goes from attack to attack - 'We're still not done', 'But wait there's more!' etc. and it seems like even neutral points about a decent feature needed to have a further point to make it seem worse.

Sure, it gives the site a lot of hits in a small amount of time, but now whenever a Wii feature/article comes up people could think 'Oh that's from ***, we all know they're biased'.

If you wanted some feedback, there it is. Pieces like this have been done before; but usually there's some good humour, satire or balance (like including mistakes by other companies) to avoid looking like an all-out attack on a company/platform.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I agree with everything except for the #7 reason (creating the Wii), and these excerpts from the N64 piece:

We're still not done. The N64's controller was the most ghastly thing the world had seen since the Virtual Boy. Yeah, the analog stick was revolutionary, but did you look at the rest of this beast? Did you ever see a non-gamer or even a casual player try to hold it after playing a PlayStation game? It was painful. Hell, even us seasoned gamers couldn't get over the plastic trident, clearly designed to work with Mario and Zelda alone.

This is downright idiotic.

The N64 may have spawned some of the best games ever made, but honestly, how many systems can make the same claim? Sure we adore Ocarina of Time, Goldeneye 007 and Super Mario 64, but most of the other titles are crap. This entire console generation was like watching a king get quartered in front of the entire village. And you know what? Our number one mistake explains why it's all Nintendo's fault.

Insanity. Perfect Dark, Mario Kart 64, Star Fox 64, WWF No Mercy/WCW Revenge/WCW World Tour, Conker, Banjo, SF Rush, Rogue Squadron, Beetle Adventure Racing, Forsaken 64, StarCraft 64, Doom 64, Turok 1 & 2, TWINE, Ogre Battle 64, ASB 99, International Superstar Soccer ...these were all crap to you?

If the Wii is kicking the crap out of PS3 and 360 in 2010, it will be BECAUSE of the motion controls. So MS and Sony will be forced to adopt motion controls, or they will be outsold by the Wiis successor, no matter how powerful it is. You really think Wii Sports 2 won't sell well? :lol

I can't believe this "Wii is a fad" nonsense has now been extrapolated out until the end of the generation.

JUST YOU WAIT, THE PS4 and XBOX720 WILL DOMINATE NINTENDO AFTER THE FIRST 80 MILLION NINTENDO FANBOYS GET THEIR PUNY WIIS! IT WAS SONY and MS' PLAN ALL ALONG TO COME IN 2ND AND 3RD TO MAKE NINTENDO GO 3RD PARTY 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD!

We get it, a lot of hardcore gamers don't like the Wii. That doesn't mean it's going to go away, because you're opinion as hardcore gamer means jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Oblivion]

By the way, I don't think the 'Dream Team' was a bad idea at all. The problem was that developers didn't want to join, not like Nintendo said you guys have to be part of our exclusive club or something. Though some members of the dream team were questionable...

 

[shattyboombatty]

It would actually be difficult to be more wrong than this piece is. I don't even know where to begin.

Some bad points and some good ones aside, you've got to admit that at least:

virtual boy was lame
they avoided much of an online gaming experience until recently
cartridges had less capacity and at a more expensive price
Nintendo ditching Sony on the Nintendo machine featuring CD capability couldn't have been a good thing for them.

 

[Evlar]

I mean really. How the hell did the words "all-important" end up in front of "mii code"? Copyist error? Firefox spellcheck gone horribly awry?

 

[Kobun Heat]

And so then, here's my list:

6. Virtual Boy. This has to be on the list, but to be honest it's not as if it was that big of a disaster. They cut their losses quickly and didn't try to force it down people's throats that long. It's not as if customer loyalty to Nintendo was affected that much. Still, it never should have been released at that price and at that level of tech. It also turned head-mounted gaming displays into a taboo, which I think is unfortunate.

5. Snubbing Sony.

4. Creating a hostile environment for developers that made them want to jump ship to Sony. Censorship, high cost of goods, exclusivity contracts. Brett covered this pretty well.

3. Not having a followup to Goldeneye on the N64 at launch. This was absolutely imperative and they didn't even realize it. The reason N64 hung on with the crucial older gamer demographic was Bond, and they should have pushed Perfect Dark onto GameCube and shipped the goddamned thing at launch, even if they had to pull a Microsoft-circa-2005 and contract Koreans to finish it.

2. GameCube. After the Nintendo 64, you'd think Nintendo would have been shocked into realizing that they either needed to compete with Sony and Microsoft on their level or move out of the tech race entirely. GameCube attempted to straddle, and failed because of it.

1. Not putting a CD drive in the Nintendo 64. Ultimately, this is way more important than snubbing Sony, because if Nintendo had done this, it's quite possible that the PlayStation would have gone the way of the Saturn -- if it even achieved that level of success.

 

[Gekkonidae]

The problem with this article is that the good points have by now all become hackneyed. The virtual boy, pissing off third parties, problems with the N64, lack of online vision; we've heard these complaints a billion times.

I was impressed by the Chutzpah of the first one, coming out against the Wii, but you do a terrible job defending it. As people say, unclear writing is the result of unclear thinking, and never is this more evident than in this piece.

Your points seem to be centered around the idea that when the next gen comes around, the Wii will be obsolete ("two gens behind" as you put it.) This is certainly true, but it is always the case that new toys make the old ones obsolete. The problem, as you put it is that by then motion controls will be "will be super played out and exploited." This is a daring statement, that you in no way support by argument (If I were grading this as a paper, there would be a big red circle around this statement.) Let's put that aside for a second and come back to it. You then go on to say that if Nintendo tries to upgrade their graphics at that point, they will violate their mantra that graphics don't matter. I would argue that their point is not that graphics don't matter, but rather that graphics in themselves cannot sustain the industry.

So in essence, you're saying the Wii is a problem because next gen, Nintendo won't have anywhere to go without improving graphics, which they cant' do because they said they don't matter. If you think about this a little bit, I would say that Nintendo has the farthest to go next generation because they have left a large graphical leap open to themselves, and introduced a new interface which I think will have to go through a lot of refinement in further generations.

The other problem you say, boils down to the fact that if motion control turns out to be a fad, Nintendo's stranded. Sure, but these kinds of arguments are also hackneyed, and procide no insight into the industry. Furthermore, how can you argue this point without defending yourself against the obvious counter-example that you yourself have brought up: the DS.

To go back to your most audacious statement, that motion controls will become played ouy and exploited, my only reply is: let's hope so. Right now their greatest problem is that motion controls too often substitute for button presses and simply get in the way of tried and true control schemes. If this continues to be the case, the Wii will surely be a fad because it will present no real inovation. But the current control schemes we use are the products of 30 years of work and design, if someone is able to truely exploit the potential of motion control, I think it's silly to say they will be played out within the next five years.

In the end, I commend you for your attempt, but if you want to pass for journalism, a deeper level of thought and elaboration is required.

 

[DaBargainHunta]

Aside from the Wii bit (too early to tell really, but the point about it eventually being two generations behind is a valid one), I thought the article was good. It may not have contained anything we didn't already know, but it was still an interesting stroll through history. I like these types of pieces. I hope we see more of them.

 

[thestopsign]

Wow, I can't believe this article is getting all the hate it is. I would agree completely with every point on there besides the Wii one. Ultimately, Nintendo's ignorance to the world around them was why the fell during the 90's. The Virtual Boy was a huge mistake. The N64 had a bunch of **** ups, but had some gems buried deep inside. I remember the whole Mortal Kombat thing being serious back in the day, and Nintendo has had a "kiddy" image up until now. He got a few facts wrong in a some places, but other wise, it was a decent article. I'm sure GAF didn't even read past the first point.

 

[firemyst]

ehh I only agree with virtual boy. Here is my quick list:


7. No CD-rom for N64
6. No "normal" DVD for Gamecube
5. No front/back light on first GBA
4. Pissing off Konami after the snes days
3. Was very late to add an online strategy
2. Didn't secure enough 3rd party exclusives during N64 and GC days
1. Underestimated the importance of Square/Squeenix

#1 rests solely on Yamauchi's arrogance. Shifting him out was Nintendo's best move, regardless of the money or influence he has. He had no problems alienating whoever disagreed with his way, including Square Co. (and afterward insults all RPG players). It was fitting that Sony split off with their CD drive, made the PlayStation, and quickly formed the agreement with Square for Final Fantasy VII.

At least Iwata's on the right track to get the third party support back.

 

[Dai Kaiju]

Nice article. I enjoyed it, but don't you think it's a bit silly to declare the Wii Nintendo's 7th greatest mistake when it's currently a wild success?

 

[Oblivion]

About the snubbing Sony thing: Wouldn't Nintendo be screwed either way, since the terms for the licensing would let Sony own the rights to the games or something? Someone mentioned it in another thread a while back...

 

[Shard]

About the snubbing Sony thing: Wouldn't Nintendo be screwed either way, since the terms for the licensing would let Sony own the rights to the games or something? Someone mentioned it in another thread a while back...

Yea, it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, though it is Nintendo fault for getting into that situation in the first place.

 

[NintenDonut]

Because what do you do next? Five years from now, when the PS4 and NextBox show up, they're going to jump in hardware power again.

What does Sony and Microsoft do next?

There will be no PS4 or NextBox. They will not be able to get consumers to buy in to a "next hardware jump". Nintendo is the only company positioned to sell a new future console (with better HD & online features).

 

[number1jagsfan]

Did anyone actually read past the stupidity on the first page?

 

[SantaC]

And so then, here's my list:

6. Virtual Boy. This has to be on the list, but to be honest it's not as if it was that big of a disaster. They cut their losses quickly and didn't try to force it down people's throats that long. It's not as if customer loyalty to Nintendo was affected that much. Still, it never should have been released at that price and at that level of tech. It also turned head-mounted gaming displays into a taboo, which I think is unfortunate.

5. Snubbing Sony.

4. Creating a hostile environment for developers that made them want to jump ship to Sony. Censorship, high cost of goods, exclusivity contracts. Brett covered this pretty well.

3. Not having a followup to Goldeneye on the N64 at launch. This was absolutely imperative and they didn't even realize it. The reason N64 hung on with the crucial older gamer demographic was Bond, and they should have pushed Perfect Dark onto GameCube and shipped the goddamned thing at launch, even if they had to pull a Microsoft-circa-2005 and contract Koreans to finish it.

2. GameCube. After the Nintendo 64, you'd think Nintendo would have been shocked into realizing that they either needed to compete with Sony and Microsoft on their level or move out of the tech race entirely. GameCube attempted to straddle, and failed because of it.

1. Not putting a CD drive in the Nintendo 64. Ultimately, this is way more important than snubbing Sony, because if Nintendo had done this, it's quite possible that the PlayStation would have gone the way of the Saturn -- if it even achieved that level of success.

Good list. I agree a lot with it. Also I think Gamecube was hurt by using mini-DVD. It wasn't mainstream, and it only had 1.5 gig capacity. Very little since space has moved forward a lot.

Also gotta feel bad for Gunpei Yokoi. I remember an old feature on him like 6 years ago, and he was a true visionary that Nintendo could had needed. He took a gamble with Virtual Boy, but you can't fault him since he did so many good things too.

 

[Shard]

Did anyone actually read past the stupidity on the first page?

A few people did from the looks of things.

 

[Joe Molotov]

So basically, the list all is decades old stuff that we've all heard a million, billion times before (OMG, Virtual Boy BOMBA!!! No wai!!) and the Wii. The system that so popular, it can't be kept in stock. Great list! :lol

 

[Gekkonidae]

Did anyone actually read past the stupidity on the first page?

Yeah, in my post I argued that all the other points were valid, but by now clicheed. We've heard them all before a billion times.

 

[Blue Geezer]

the n64 is the 3rd best controller in history after the gc and 360 ones (i am still undecided where the hell to place the wiimote) how they put it down as a mistake is beyond me.

 

[Vyer]

I can agree with the others as mistakes, but your article starts off pretty badly. It's like you ran out of ideas and tagged #7 on there.

You actually have 'five years from now when the new systems are out'...as though Nintendo would not have a new system either.

And it gets worse from there.

It's a poor choice on your list, because the other points, IMO, are well thought out.

In addition, Kobun's take pretty much has a better list and presented it well just in a forum post.

 

[kylej]

I agree with... one of these.

Dammit, you're going to make me write my own list, aren't you?

No don't, then they'll write a childish article claiming you copied them.

 

[crbowen]

From the article's "Iron Fisted" section;

Cut to today, when Nintendo's allegedly not giving third parties access to its all-important Mii code, or info on how to take a Wii game online.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3157812

A Sega game from Japan uses Miis and has Online. Shocking!!

I wish these sites would do actual research for their stories before putting them up.

 

[.dmc]

Between this + the gaymer baiting articles I think gamesradar needs to do think a lot harder about their editorials. Generally I don't mind their game previews/reviews, but the opinion pieces that I've read have been pretty trashy + shallow.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Horrible article.

I'll comment on it when IGN write it up properly in a few weeks

 

[ferricide]

Sure, it gives the site a lot of hits in a small amount of time, but now whenever a Wii feature/article comes up people could think 'Oh that's from ***, we all know they're biased'.

in my experience that's the inevitable result of putting up a website/printing a magazine anyway. =)

yes, i'm interested to hear what people think of this article. and i'm not just putting it up on GAF for cheap clicks (i won't complain about them either!) i'm mostly putting it up because nobody on GAF reads gamesradar right now, really, and we do have a lot of interesting content these days.

of course, this article isn't well-tailored to the GAF audience (1up does a great job of targeting the GAF audience; we aren't really trying) because, as has been pointed out, this is information that most people around here would know.

but there it is. not too cynical in the end, is it?

 

[Justin Bailey]

1. Not putting a CD drive in the Nintendo 64. Ultimately, this is way more important than snubbing Sony, because if Nintendo had done this, it's quite possible that the PlayStation would have gone the way of the Saturn -- if it even achieved that level of success.

This is the most important answer, which is also the most obvious one. I think people don't focus on it as much because it's too easy, but this one is pretty much it.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

this is misinformation that most people around here would know is wrong.

fixed.

 

[Drensch]

I regeret clicking on that pos.

 

[chase]

That story is proper, old-school GAF.

Glory days...

 

[BGBW]

3 - Pissing off the third parties from day one

Did Nintendo really piss third parties off back in 1889?

 

[MasterMFauli]

3. Not having a followup to Goldeneye on the N64 at launch.

You mean "on the GameCube at launch", right?

2. GameCube. After the Nintendo 64, you'd think Nintendo would have been shocked into realizing that they either needed to compete with Sony and Microsoft on their level or move out of the tech race entirely. GameCube attempted to straddle, and failed because of it.

Something i have to disagree heavily.
I really think, GameCube was a creation between the change of Nintendo (Yamauchi -> Iwata) and also was a place holder from the very beginning. You know, looking back at how Miyamoto presented the shoulder buttons of the GCN-Controller...nice, but it seemed that Nintendo didnt know what to do next.
Maybe they even had the idea for Wii back then, but it´s the same as of today wanting the Wii have X360-graphics AND the motion-controls. It´d have been to expensive.
Per se, GameCube was..."uncreative", but it fulfilled the Wii´s perveption, ultimately.

 

[Gigglepoo]

No one seems to agree with my belief that selling Rare was a huge mistake... for both companies.

Rare was the most important developer for the Nintendo 64, including EAD. They singlehandedly carried that system, making mainstream hits for both older (GE) and younger (BK) gamers, along with niche games (Blast Corps) to fill out the lineup. Without Rare, the N64 would have been one of the worst systems around. With them, it was one of my favorite consoles.

Furthermore, Rare would excel on the Wii. They are imaginative and creative. They are not a "mature" developer. They, like Nintendo, are at their best when they make games for everyone. With Rare on the Wii now we would have huge, great games to play while we wait for Nintendo's own big guns. With Rare we would have a company showing why motion controls are important instead of just tacking them on to existing games. Nintendo made a ton of money initially, but I think selling Rare ultimately hurt them.

I don't have a list made out, but I would definetely put this sale near the top. I agree with Kohler that going with carts for the N64 was the biggest mistake Nintendo has ever made.

 

[Oblivion]

4. Pissing off Konami after the snes days

I don't think that had any 'major' repercussions, really. At least not to same degree as Squeenix.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Did Nintendo really piss third parties off back in 1889?

Why did you choose 1989? Nintendo was pissing off third parties long before then. They had a policy on the NES that publishers could only release a certain number of games each year, and it was an incredibly small number. This is why Konami had to form Ultra so they could have a few extra games a year. They have always treated third parties like crap. It wasn't until the PlayStation came out that there was an actual choice for developers, though. There is a reason why so many flocked to Sony in 1995.

 

[SantaC]

I don't think that had any 'major' repercussions, really. At least not to same degree as Squeenix.

Konami had some huge games on the snes (and nes)

 

[Holy Order Sol]

Why did you choose 1989?

You don't get it.

 

[Amir0x]

Is Wii really a Nintendo "mistake"? I mean, it's not like every aspect of it wasn't deliberately designed and it's not like they're not reaping the rewards with billions of dollars.

Sure, it sucks if you enjoy gaming, but it's certainly nothing they'd call a mistake. I guess it depends on the perspective. Totally right about their online problems, the virtual boy, the N64, and of course the #1 thing.

 

[ghst]

7. Teh Kiddy
6. LOL
5. Luke Smith
4. No Blast Processing
3. Falklands War
2. Snes D-Pad
1. Luigi the Hedgehog

 

[Oblivion]

Konami had some huge games on the snes (and nes)

I don't know much about Konami's software sales, but I don't think the Castlevania games sold gangbusters...well, ever. I mean, some sold good enough, but not really killer apps. The only big sellers I can think of that they had were Metal Gear and Yu Gi Oh.

 

[Kobun Heat]

You mean "on the GameCube at launch", right?

...yes!

 

[StevieP]

Is Wii really a Nintendo "mistake"? I mean, it's not like every aspect of it wasn't deliberately designed and it's not like they're not reaping the rewards with billions of dollars.

Sure, it sucks if you enjoy gaming, but it's certainly nothing they'd call a mistake. I guess it depends on the perspective. Totally right about their online problems, the virtual boy, the N64, and of course the #1 thing.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

Did Nintendo really piss third parties off back in 1889?

No, but their online support was about the same...

 

[Idioteque]

How can the N64 be on that list? It was the last good Nintendo console.

 

[Gigglepoo]

You don't get it.

Is 1989 a reference to the Genesis launch?

 

[Joe Molotov]

yes, i'm interested to hear what people think of this article.

Well, now you know. And knowing is half the battle.