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The Trial Of Peter Molyneux by RockPaperShotgun

thebloo

Member
Yeh, a lot of people in here jumping to a quick defense without reading what Peter actually responds with to the harsh questions. He dancers around a lot and basically says he's not lying because he believes in himself and his team. What a load of horse shit. Also has multiple answers for the same question throughout the interview, he can't make up his mind as what his best excuse is then devolves into some pathetic "my life is really hard" excuse.

Nobody here is defending what PM has done. There were other threads about him and people were (ironically) calling him a liar. However, we are not journalists doing an interview. Calling someone names on a forum is fun. Calling them names during an interview, even in the form of a question, is not cool.
 
Of course that's the case. I'm sure some games journalists treat everything as a job interview, but the reality is, they need access so they are forced to play nice.

My point was, nothing Walker said was out of bounds. When the opportunity presents itself, interviews like this should be done. More often, they manifest as long form investigative pieces, with lots of anonymous sources; those are still too rare, and I'd like more of them.

I think the interview is pretty solid, but some of the questions, like that first one, are antagonistic and didn't need to be. That said, Walker had an open range and took his shot. Those opportunities are rare, but he got one and made the most of it in his estimation.

That Twitter post you linked? If this was a Paxman interview, for example—someone with huge influence, reputation, and attention, she wouldn't be saying that.

Again, it's a balance of risk and reward. RPS doesn't have enough prestige, clearly in the eyes of Deep Silver, to command an interview like this, with them. But Molyneux is (or was) different. I doubt strategic decision making influences his media work to the degree that a big publisher does to theirs.

Ah, so you do understand. I'm saying the Paxmans are rare. Not many sites are big enough to let an interview like that happen. Walker had a shot due to circumstances and he worked the situation.

I'm saying that's really not normal for most of the industry.
 
What's better is in the other interview that came out today (one of the three interviews that he claimed was his last interview ever) he talks about his new game. Specifically he talks about keeping it behind closed doors longer, implying he's heading back to Kickstarter for funding for it. He deserves to be called out. Much like Microsoft and 343i deserve to be called out for MCC, Bungie for Destiny promises, and a slew of others.
 
Calling someone a pathalogical liar dosn't really mean something malicious, just that the person in question can't really stop lying, even if there's no evil intent behind it. Is a mental illness.

"Pathological lying can be described as a habituation of lying. It is when an individual consistently lies for no personal gain. The lies are commonly transparent and often seem rather pointless."

Implying someone may have a mental illness isn't malicious? Sorry, I forgot how progressive and open-minded people are about disorders, and the complete lack of stigma they come with.
 

Corpekata

Banned
Bringing mental health into it is indeed poor form but I also have seen many people use the term "pathological liar" without knowing the full context of its' mental health implications (see a lot of stuff flung at Brian Williams lately). It's insulting, but not always meant in a literal mental health fashion. Sort of like how psychopath is used pretty liberally. For a lot of people it just means something like constant liar.
 

Relique

Member
I can't believe people are trying to sympathize with PM for this interview. Boohoo the guy got a slap on the wrist. Nobody hurt him, harassed him, or threatened him. He is a grown ass man he could handle a little bit of criticism. If he couldn't... He had the option of backing out of the interview. It's like people are appalled every time someone is subjected to the tiniest bit of stress.

I commend RPS for having the balls. I personally paid into the kickstarter campaign and felt quite cheated with the way things turned out. I am happy that someone is rooting for me and is willing to ask some tough questions.
 

Alienous

Member
Kotaku will be calling you shortly.

I think you have a bright future ahead of you.

Thanks, guys. I'm going after Randy Pitchford next.

I think my line of questioning will consist of "Games are hard to make, and I don't think people are giving you enough credit for Aliens: Colonial Marines" and "Tell us when Battleborn and Borderlands 3 come out".

I will get to the truth of every matter.
 

Jito

Banned
Nobody here is defending what PM has done. There were other threads about him and people were (ironically) calling him a liar. However, we are not journalists doing an interview. Calling someone names on a forum is fun. Calling them names during an interview, even in the form of a question, is not cool.

But the interview provides even more evidence that he is in fact pathological liar and he uses a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid admitting it to himself.
 

gogosox82

Member
This!
Molyneux did not deserve this kind of treatment, just because someone has a history of over promising he deserves to be treated like crap?

People are acting like those lofty promises of his really physically hurt them or something.
All he did was promise some stuff that never made it into his video games, do people really feel that hurt over that?

What treatment? He's getting asked some tough questions that's all. He's not being put on the torture rack or anything like that. The guy has a history of over hyping his games and making promises he couldn't possibly deliver on and is being called out on the promises he failed to keep just like anyone else would.
 

Toxi

Banned
For anyone wondering what we learned: We learned that Peter Molyneux will lie and contradict himself in the same interview. We would have actually learned something other than that if he was able to give a straight answer.

We can never take what he says in interviews seriously.
 

JP

Member
For me this didn't come across as overly aggressive, I think the questions that were asked really needed to be asked and it's a miracle that it's taken this long for somebody to ask them directly.

I wouldn't accept any interview where the interviewer has an agenda of upsetting the interviewee, Peter Molyneux may well be the nicest bloke in the world in real life and I would have nothing for him because of that but this isn't about personal things. This is about incredibly poor business decisions that have been happening repeatedly for quite some time and there are people that feel genuinely aggrieved by his actions.

One of the issues I have is his ongoing pleas of innocence when things have gone astray, sort of "It's my fault but I didn't know it was going to happen". This seems to be the common response from him although the specific words that are used change. Not knowing that you're doing something that is hurting others can't be an acceptable response.

I've got nothing against the bloke as a person and I sincerely wish him the best if he's going away to live in a hole and eating elderberries but I still believe that people are right to ask questions of him and it should have happened long ago.

He's not the worst person in the world, he (as far as I know) hasn't killed anybody but if he does want to stay in this business then for his own good he needs to sort himself out because and trust that he'd built up while producing quality games has run out for many people.

I don't wish ill of him at all but he genuinely doesn't seem to understand any of the people who have issues with him. If that's so then he needs to work hard to understand these people irrelevant of how big or small that investment is because if he's not able to understand these people then I think it's going to be difficult for him to make games for these people he has no understanding of.
 
I haven't read much of the thread but I'm conflicted by the interview. I appreciate the questions being asked and getting to the bottom of the BS in the gaming industry one thing at a time whether it's a person or practice or what have you. But there definitely needs to be some tact. When you're gonna grill somebody there's a way to do it harshly and a way to do it gracefully where you still make your point but the other person doesn't feel like they were put on blast.

I realize it takes a seasoned vet of a journalist to do the latter but it's something RPS should strive for. But I'd rather have this interview than not have it. And I don't even dislike Molyneux. He should just be like yeah I do talk a lot of shit don't I lol.
 

THRILLH0

Banned
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SeanTSC

Member
And now we move into the "American journalism is bad and that's why some people don't like the way this interview was conducted" portion of the argument, which quite frankly is BS. There are way more examples of excellent journalism done every day than what you see on television.

Ah, the "calling out America on sucking is wrong!" defense. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to shit all over my own country when it is filled with consistently god awful things and boy is it. Let's not pretend that the overwhelming majority of "American Journalism" isn't one big joke at this point and that it hasn't had an incredibly negative effect on the public.
 

AlphaDump

Gold Member
the question was asked in a premeditated way to tee up the confirmation bias that supports his actions. while i dont condone the approach, the actual reasoning behind the question being asked needs to be acknowledged.


when you write a proposal or contract, you basically put your professional nuts on the table. if you dont meet your deliverable(s) within the contract you are done for. i am fully aware that "saying shit" isn't really legally binding, but that doesn't make it okay, especially with a 30 year history.

we cant ever know if he had the full intent to not get a publisher, but he basically admitted to going in low with kickstarter to at least alleviate some of the cost, mitigating the full risk on the publisher. and there is nothing wrong with that, but dont explicitly sell anything else otherwise.

just because RPS decided to approach it the way it does, doesn't mean we need to defend PM's actions.


if anything, the best way to circumvent this in the future is keeping your mouth shut and hiring a community rep. also design your game first before selling it.
 

thebloo

Member
But the interview provides even more evidence that he is in fact pathological liar and he uses a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid admitting it to himself.

And 75% of the interview is great. However, it'll get buried due to the idiotic beginning that everybody is talking about. I have read it, it's an excellent piece at times with a pushy John Walker and a pretty open Peter Molyneux.

However, nobody is really talking about that. And with that, everybody loses.
 

Axass

Member
Whew, busy day so could only read not reply. I feel theres a lot of culture shock here for US and no Euro board-members in what an aggressive interview this was. Here in the UK, if you fuck up publicly to this extent (and for an extended period so as to become notorious for it), this what you get faced with and rightfully so.

I'm not surprised a lot of the dev community is quivering at the lip and rabble rowsing to the tune of "too harsh, unprofessional!" because 1) you've got your typical human tribal instinct where one of the tribe in GAME DEV markings is being 'attacked', and the deep instinctual urge is defend 2) Theres the fact a lot of the game industry is founded upon pathological liars. That ranges from there being little budget for a projects development; Unpaid overtime, lie to the underlings or lying to consumers to their faces over things like "this content will never see re-release!" and so on. A huge percentage of the industry runs on a sort of locomotive "its too big to stop now" principle rather than one of tight, fiscally responsible project management. So when these big 'orrible mean questions are being fielded at someone perceived as "one of the untouchable old greats", pants begin to fill.

Thats the core of it as well. Peter Molyneux could have continued to drain EA or Microsofts coffers until someone figured things out, and its "oh well, theyre big boys, they'll deal". But the second Molyneux stepped into the Kickstarter/crowdfunding/goodwill space, that changes entirely. This is no longer a situation of something being funded by the well-to-do of the world, you're now doffing your cap to anyone in the world with access to electronic funds. People that may be living paycheque to paycheque, people that had the money then down the line fall afoul of some hideous financial emergency, so on and so forth. But they either recognised your name as one to trust, or a lot of positive PR and outreach got your project infront of them and they said "yeah why not". Fans pledging for $200 books they're no closer to getting to, a kid promised a life changing sum of money left to hang (good thing he's not terminally ill eh or living in a dangerous part of the world), and even individuals passionate yet perhaps silly enough to work for a year for free to help dig Molyneux out of his mess because of his legacy. These people don't have a name though, they're nor celebs, a figure you're supposed to protect. They're just the legion of people its okay to step on because... what they gonna do?

This article is the equal and opposing force to the good-will people like Molyneux have been cashing in to with the Kickstarter gold-rush. After a straight decade or more of lying, and yes it is lying to this point, thats when the kid gloves should come off and tough questions are asked. RPS has no doubt covered GODUS themselves, and some small part of John is perhaps acting on a touch of guilt for being one of many others propping up Molyneux's promises and letting him run with it. Thats got to end in a spectacular fashion. What we read today was accountability, and theres a great lack of it in day to day life until things get leaked or brought to the public eye through other means (journalism!).

There are several points in the article that stand out to me. The perpetuation on Peter's part of trying to paint himself as a naive thinker of our time, and how could he possibly be expected to know things like "7 months or 3 years", that simply by being a creative person he is above such trifling matters. Its here, at its zenith, that I can feel him straining to throw the muddy workers under the bus for not achieving things faster and letting him down. An ex-employee that was responsible for contacting Bryan is left as the reason for that breaking down. Shedding staff isn't a good look either, and the assertion that a fair few have "left the industry" after their time with Molyneux is damning in and of itself.

Where he gets the most evasive though is on the matter of just what money Bryan is going to be accruing and making any notion of coming to a compromise despite the bullshit contract they forced him to sign. Thats when the childlike demeanour drops and suddenly Molyneux remembers complex things like legal ramifications and "do not make money promises". Funny that. He'll quote from three months to a year or anything regarding Godus development, features to entice and bedazzle, but when it counts to his bottom line, some self preservation is kicking in and preventing him from making any concessions whatsoever.

The very first question of the article is perfect because it is, with laser precision, the root of it all. Molyneux should never lead a studio or be the one calling the shots, because he is incapable of doing so. Thats why he and people like Dyack fell onto hard times. Businesses outside of infinite money reserves like MS need to run on Reality, and not fiction or they get into trouble fast. When Molyneux makes promises pertaining to game design, he's doing so almost entirely at the cost of other people's hard work and ability regarding code, art, animation, and so on. Even the simplest of us can just say out loud "I want to make a game with 'best things ever' in", but its realising that talk is cheap and management and planning are the true requirement to such an end goal is what makes someone a great leader of development. Molyneux quite simply is not and hasn't been for a damn long time. Tough love occurred, and its up to him how he reshuffles.

Amazing, very well thougth and very well put reply. Please read this guys, no matter what "side" are you on.

I especially agree on the bolded section, I think it's a huge part of why we're having this discussion in first place.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
Video game development ≠ snake oil. There is more than one ingredient.

It is also about timing, context. If he waxes lyrical about trees growing and scar tissue in Fable, YEARS before the game releases... and it doesn't end up in the game? OK, shame. I'm sure at one point he hoped that would be a realistic goal.

But it is something else when he makes the game, releases it, and THEN claims it has feature X or Y. The latter I do not think he is guilty of.

He's openly admitted to saying anything he can to build up hype for his unreleased games, regardless of whether the feature he talks about was even DISCUSSED with his development team beforehand. It doesn't matter whether he believed those features would be feasible or not, the bottom line is he's literally made things up on the spot to fuel hype with no idea of whether he'd be able to deliver or not.
 

mcrommert

Banned
Bringing mental health into it is indeed poor form but I also have seen many people use the term "pathological liar" without knowing the full context of its' mental health implications (see a lot of stuff flung at Brian Williams lately). It's insulting, but not always meant in a literal mental health fashion. Sort of like how psychopath is used pretty liberally. For a lot of people it just means something like constant liar.

Both Pathological Liar and Psychopath are not mental health terms at all
 

watership

Member
Why? He's just proved he's one of the few journalists in this sector with some legitimate clout. He's a rare commodity.

This comment is staggeringly out of sync with what actually happened in this interview. He just lost all his clout. There is no more. He has fans now with people who wanted attack journalism to go after Molyneux.

I do not understand the "He deserved it." line of thought. So an interviewer should attack someone if they deserve it? After this board and gaming in generals revolt against poor journalism, almost daily, please tell me some of you realize this is also just as bad.
 

Alienous

Member
People keep saying that he would have a handler or cut off the interview if he was malicious rather than naive. I disagree. Self-involved bullshitters tend to think they can out out any fire with a few words. From Molyneux to Derek Smart, it should be no surprise that these types of personalities are willing to engage the press with BS, no handler in sight.

I think that's the case.

This was unlike most of the interviews you see coming from the gaming media. He wasn't promoting a game, or a project, but trying to defend his own character and actions. Having someone say "We can't answer that", when you don't have the excuse of spoilers like with a game interview, would just be bad form. And without that guidance you get to see him double-talk, and discredit things he said in the very same interview.
 

Vlade

Member
The interview is fantastic! ...Overall! Quoting back things someone has said and actually pushing for answers (ie accountability) is something we need. This sort of thing is one reason why journalism in US politics has gone to hell, too; Often the most basic of questions like "can you please explain this ridiculous statement? Because we did some fact-checking and..." are never asked. It's 100% appropriate to form an interview around what someone has already said and done and not only what they plan to do later.

However, the immediate opening of the interview is horrendously unprofessional. "Do you fuck sheep? Because it looks to me like you fuck sheep." -- "No, that's really not appropriate..." -- "Let's face it. You fuck sheep. Now, spend this interview defending yourself and proving that you do not fuck sheep. Why do you fuck sheep?" -- "Do you think the zoological industry would be better without me?" -- "I think it would be better if you didn't fuck sheep."

No. Just no. There's already plenty to grill him for both recent events and ongoing issues. The proverbial homework was obviously done by having past quotes and promises ready for mention and that by itself is already going to result in a good article--You know, journalism-- But the immediate hostility is entirely unnecessary.

So, with this in mind, do I have any sympathy for PM? Hell no. It's best for everyone that this is finally catching up to him.

im with this view. it was antagonistic. and while peter has some great zoology behind him we shouldn't forget, he still fucked too many sheep and at least walker didnt pretend that aspect was still in question.
 
Ah, the "calling out America on sucking is wrong!" defense. I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to shit all over my own country when it is filled with consistently god awful things and boy is it. Let's not pretend that the overwhelming majority of "American Journalism" isn't one big joke at this point and that it hasn't had an incredibly negative effect on the public.

I have my own problem with media trends in the country but I think you're oversimplifying things. I just don't accept the "Americans can't handle UK hard-hitting journalists" line of reasoning. I thought the merits of the interview (which do exist) were overshadowed by Walker clearly having an agenda going into it.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Thanks, guys. I'm going after Randy Pitchford next.

I think my line of questioning will consist of "Games are hard to make, and I don't think people are giving you enough credit for Aliens: Colonial Marines" and "Tell us when Battleborn and Borderlands 3 come out".

I will get to the truth of every matter.
Whoa there cowboy. "Tell us?" Who are you to be commanding a GAME DEVELOPER?

Interview over.
 

njean777

Member
Nobody here is defending what PM has done. There were other threads about him and people were (ironically) calling him a liar. However, we are not journalists doing an interview. Calling someone names on a forum is fun. Calling them names during an interview, even in the form of a question, is not cool.

Lol he wasn't calling him any names, he was asking a very direct question that needed to be asked. All the people complaining that it was harsh are part of the problem. "You can not ask that question that way!!!!!" Sure he can, and he did. Good on him for not being like you and all the softballers in here.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
so we all complain about what certain devs do with games and how people still lap it up (buggy, unfinished, under delivering, etc)....someone finally calls one of them out on it and they're the bad guys?

isn't this pretty much what Jon Stewart has been doing for years on the daily show? using quotes and showing how fucked up politicians and the like can be....

Exactly. People praise Stewart for that interview he did on Crossfire, where he basically says that they are ruining America and asks them to stop....and yet calling PM out on his constant lying is going too far?
 

Clefargle

Member
so we all complain about what certain devs do with games and how people still lap it up (buggy, unfinished, under delivering, etc)....someone finally calls one of them out on it and they're the bad guys?

isn't this pretty much what Jon Stewart has been doing for years on the daily show? using quotes and showing how fucked up politicians and the like can be....

.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Nobody here is defending what PM has done. There were other threads about him and people were (ironically) calling him a liar. However, we are not journalists doing an interview. Calling someone names on a forum is fun. Calling them names during an interview, even in the form of a question, is not cool.

Ironically?
 

njean777

Member
so we all complain about what certain devs do with games and how people still lap it up (buggy, unfinished, under delivering, etc)....someone finally calls one of them out on it and they're the bad guys?

isn't this pretty much what Jon Stewart has been doing for years on the daily show? using quotes and showing how fucked up politicians and the like can be....

Well said.
 

SeanTSC

Member
I have my own problem with media trends in the country but I think you're oversimplifying things. I just don't accept the "Americans can't handle UK hard-hitting journalists" line of reasoning. I thought the merits of the interview (which do exist) were overshadowed by Walker clearly having an agenda going into it.

Every single interviewer ever has had an "agenda" going into an interview. You can't not have one. Be it to play hardball or stroke someone off for PR money. There's no such thing as not having an agenda.
 

watership

Member
Exactly. People praise Stewart for that interview he did on Crossfire, where he basically says that they are ruining America and asks them to stop....and yet calling PM out on his constant lying is going too far?

He didn't remotely act as kind, and courteous as Stewart did. You know that Stewart is always respectful to the face of someone during interviews? It's how you get interviews, even if you ask hard questions.

Okay, time to stop. It seems that most of you think if your hated enough, you deserve to be treated like garbage in an interview. Based on that, most of you don't deserve the level of ethics in journalism you all say you all want. I'm out.
 

thebloo

Member
Lol he wasn't calling him any names, he was asking a very direct question that needed to be asked. All the people complaining that it was harsh are part of the problem. "You can not ask that question that way!!!!!" Sure he can, and he did. Good on him for not being like you and all the softballers in here.

Good for me not being like him, since we've gotten to that point.

Ironically?

Yeah, I find it a bit ironic that people were calling him a liar and (some) are now defending him from being called a liar.
 
Going through the interview now, and John Walker kind of comes off as a huge douche most of the time. Perhaps because he's incredibly naive about how the development process works in a video game.

Like really...Molyneux deserves to be harrassed because a kickstarter game is late?

RPS: How long should backers wait for you to deliver the game they paid for three years ago?

Peter Molyneux: I don’t know. All I know is that there are people here that have been working on Godus, that we have worked on Godus for one hundred and twenty thousand man-hours. We have got three terabytes of documentary feature. We’ve replied to 31,000 posts and tickets. We’ve done 57 community videos. Do you know how many updates we’ve done on Steam?

RPS: I don’t think anyone who paid for the game cares.

Peter Molyneux: How many updates have we done on Steam?

RPS: I don’t think anyone who paid for the game cares. I think they want the game they paid for three years ago or their money back.

Peter Molyneux: We’re trying as hard as we possibly can.

RPS: I don’t think you are. You’ve said yourself–

Peter Molyneux: John, John, John–

RPS: You said yourself, that you should not have gone and focused on the mobile version until the PC version was finished. This is all very disingenuous in light of you saying that.

Peter Molyneux: No, I actually said, “I wish I hadn’t focused on,” I didn’t say I shouldn’t have done.

RPS: [Laughs]

Really John? Molyneaux may have been incredibly naive about his timeline, but he's 100% been dedicated to not only deliver the game, but making sure it comes out great. Who cares when it's finished, as long as it's finished. Do I really need to quote Shigiru Miyamoto here? Once the game is done, no one will remember that it is late, but if he released a shit game, everyone would remember that it was shit. I'll take late over bad any day.

So far, it's not always bad, but this spot comes off as incredibly, insultingly naive about how game development works. He's really trying to suggest that Molyneaux is really just sitting in his off twiddling his thumbs, not even trying? give me a break. The guy is possibly one of the most passionate game developers of all time, if anyone loves his job, it's probably him.
 

Sorcerer

Member
Not everybody deserves to be interviewed this harshly.

But Molyneux absolutely needs to be called out.

I remember thinking this guy was a scam artist when the first Fable game came out.

And his baloney has just snowballed from then on.
 

Haunted

Member
Sometimes being confrontational is part of real journalism.

See - Dan Rather vs. George HW Bush, 1988

Not to mention pretty much every episode of 60 Minutes, ever.
ugh, disgusting gotcha! journalism

he's so aggressive and rude

this is more about himself than the interviewee

who is this rather/paxman/wallace guy anyway


how dare this john walker open up a 90 minute interview with a question I don't like the tone of for the first 20 seconds... the implication of which is pretty much proven to be correct by the interviewee himself during the interview
 

Corpekata

Banned
Godus isn't late. It will never be completed to the extent of the vision. They have 3 people working on it. It's pretty much finished as far as major content goes. That excerpt is a good example of his lies, actually. There's no way anyone with a shred of integrity can call their current efforts "trying as hard as we can."
 
Every single interviewer ever has had an "agenda" going into an interview. You can't not have one. Be it to play hardball or stroke someone off for PR money. There's no such thing as not having an agenda.

Everyone has a bias and an interviewer knows what questions they want to ask going into an interview. Starting off with "are you a pathological liar" seems to me like Walker wanted to go in there and read Molyneux the riot act as some sort of "consumer advocate." His tweets following indicate that much as well.
 
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