I think the excellent Double Fine Adventure! documentary (still currently in progress) should be required viewing for folks that are interested in this topic for a raw look at how things don't always turn out the way you plan for when it comes to game development. Lots of similarities to this particular situation as well - respected old school dev with strengths in creativity and ideas but project management not as much, a kickstarter campaign and the responsibilities that are tied to fan funded projects, in depth look at the development process, the roles of the team and the hurdles that come up, having to alter plans due to over ambition, internet outrage from the perspective of those on the receiving end. It's all pretty fascinating and transparent stuff whether Broken Age is up folks alley or not, much more than a source of PR for the game. I learned a lot more about the grey area between a developer making a statement and the realities they face to achieve their goals than I did from this article, at least.
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The Trial Of Peter Molyneux by RockPaperShotgun
- Thread starter Pie and Beans
- Start date
BibiMaghoo
Member
Godus is the exception. It's the first major game of his that is actually just not a good game at all, on top of the usual PM routine. I think that matters somewhat, because under delivering a good game, still leaves people with a good game, and so not really a failure. Godus is currently a failure of a game.
Hypereides
Member
Strong ethics and moral principles? Maybe I missed something, since English isn't my first language. That was my intention anyway.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
I cringed just reading that.
CanUKlehead
Member
Until he needs to advertise his next game? Not trying to be snarky necessarily and I think he now more than ever the press isn't the only option but, well...he's...he kinda...
crazyrabbits
Banned
Mental health has nothing to do with it. Considering that Molyneux's entire reputation for the last few years has been "promise first, let down later", there's no foul asking him if he believes himself to be someone who lies constantly.
Regardless of the answer, he proved that moments later when he started spinning every statement around.
The way people are acting in this topic (including a moderator), you'd think someone kicked their dog. This kind of journalism has been around in various forms, as mentioned (The Daily Show, British interviews, etc). Sometimes the only cure is tough love, and RPS hit it right on the nose.
Nobody complains that Jon Stewart was being too harsh when he railed at Jim Cramer for leading people to invest in bad funds - they praised Stewart for it. The video game industry is no different. If you fuck up repeatedly, you should be called to task for your remarks. You're not any more special than a politician, actor or any member of society. Whether he's just one developer is irrelevant.
Your use of the term mental health here borders on insulting to the actual field of mental health. I agree that it was poor form for the interview, but it's spurious to claim it was an attack on the grounds of mental health.
I thought the interview as refreshing myself. IMO, Molyneux needed to be called out. I get the impression he is surrounded by "yes" men and not enough people to reign him in on his promises. Even as I read the interview, it just seemed like Molyneux kept trying to dodge each question...
Any Questions
Member
that interview was overdue. PM is the kid at school who tells tails to get people to like him. Rather like an unsuccessful Chunk from the goonies.
Uno Venova
Banned
That's a way to make other people in the game industry never want to talk with you again. Good job RPS.
BibiMaghoo
Member
One could argue that mentality is the entire AAA video game industry, of which he himself is a product. Working for EA can't be good for avoiding that.
UncleCross
Member
Really? You want terribly unprofessional interviews that basically amount to name calling and antagonistic/disrespectful questions?
CambriaRising
Member
It boggles the mind.
benicillin
Banned
I already elaborated in a further response.
Barry Burton
Member
Always refreshing to see a BS artist getting taken to task, rather than being paid lip service.
The interviewer was talking about the PC version, which is still in early access and has "mostly negative" reviews: http://store.steampowered.com/app/232810/
Also the problem here is exactly that they promised lots of stuff and aren't delivering on it.
Peter Molyneux said:
Tidal waves affecting winds affecting weather patterns of the planet... come on. He's either a big fat liar or the most delusional developer in history.
Also, have fun: http://godus.boards.net/thread/348/collecting-lies-promises-unanswered-misleading
ebullientprism
Member
Jeez. RPS really burned their bridges with this one.
Wonder if they would take the same tone with Double Fine and Schafer.
Wonder if they would take the same tone with Double Fine and Schafer.
CharmingCharlie
Member
Hm I am conflicted, not sure which I despise more is it RPS or Peter ? If I had my way I would like to see both RPS and Peter out of this industry, neither seem to contribute anything significant to it anymore.
As for Peter it is just best to ignore every single damn thing he says. There is no need for death threats or a huge campaign against him. Just ignore his bullshit, stop giving him "benefit of the doubt" and stop giving him your money. If people do that then Pete will soon go away like a bad yeast infection treated with Ski Yoghurt.
As for Peter it is just best to ignore every single damn thing he says. There is no need for death threats or a huge campaign against him. Just ignore his bullshit, stop giving him "benefit of the doubt" and stop giving him your money. If people do that then Pete will soon go away like a bad yeast infection treated with Ski Yoghurt.
Please don't. You would just waste people's time.
Loved that part:
Anyway. I can sympathize with both of them and can see their points. In the end though, John's are much closer to reality.
MarkMclovin
Member
Christ, there's a difference between pathologically lieing and overhyping, under delivering your unfinished games.
It is one thing to ask someone about lying. Another completely different thing if you ask about pathologically lying. That's not something you can control. And I am not insulting. Like I said, people with mental health issues have been offended by that question.
There are better ways to get the answers John Walker wanted.
By the way, everyone should read this: Game development is f***ing difficult, my thoughts on that Peter Molyneux interview.
kungfuian
Member
Don't think Peter's a bad guy but he's kind of guilty of having his mouth write checks his ass can't cash. This is always going to catch up with you in the end.
Just shut the f up already and make some good games! And when/if you do decide to talk about them it's ok to be enthusiastic but a healthy dose of humility sprinkled in might be nice. Maybe follow the "under promise, over deliver" strategy. It can't be that hard to do can it?
And if you can't control yourself then find/hire a pr spokes person who can!
Just shut the f up already and make some good games! And when/if you do decide to talk about them it's ok to be enthusiastic but a healthy dose of humility sprinkled in might be nice. Maybe follow the "under promise, over deliver" strategy. It can't be that hard to do can it?
And if you can't control yourself then find/hire a pr spokes person who can!
Syph Medwes
Member
Very fine line to be walked when asking these types of questions. My final judgement would depend on an audio version to determine the tone of the question-asker but regardless I applaud them for having the balls to ask the questions they did.
I hate "preview/hype culture" journalism, so I don't visit game sites, because that's "all" they produce.
This kind of interview is more "honest" to me as a reader and respects my intelligence. I'd rather hit the issue head-on, than just get my chuckles from perpetuating a meme, year after year. Break the cycle.
You are responding to that segment though. Are you really going to claim that he was being nice and consolatory here? He wasn't trying to be funny. He was completely serious and they just didn't know how to take it because they thought he was going to crack jokes about politicians and maybe them, not tell them they are ruining America with their crappy show.
crazyrabbits
Banned
Spare me your faux-outrage. Even with the link you posted, I doubt that was what Molyneux was thinking when he was asked that question, and besides, those symptoms sound suspiciously familiar to Molyneux's modus operandi.
Sure, but at this point, I'm guessing that most of the outlets (Eurogamer, The Guardian, RPS) who are interviewing him are fed up with his bullshit. No need to sugar-coat it at this point.
malingenie
Member
I think you can ask hard questions without coming off as a douche.
Like this:
"Do you understand how someone would come to the conclusion that you are a liar?"
"Based on these facts do you see how some customers may think these are all excuses?"
"How can you earn the trust of your fans?"
Don't get me wrong, I think we need to make authority figures answer, but I think you can be nice and respectful about it.
"Do you think you are you a pathological liar?" is not a good way to deal with another human being in any situation.
And if you think I'm too nice,
you are god damn right I am.
Like this:
"Do you understand how someone would come to the conclusion that you are a liar?"
"Based on these facts do you see how some customers may think these are all excuses?"
"How can you earn the trust of your fans?"
Don't get me wrong, I think we need to make authority figures answer, but I think you can be nice and respectful about it.
"Do you think you are you a pathological liar?" is not a good way to deal with another human being in any situation.
And if you think I'm too nice,
fuck you
OrlanisWorks
Banned
funkystudent
Member
So why was Peter doing a press tour anyway?
Damage control after that Eurogamer article?
Damage control after that Eurogamer article?
air jordans for dogs
Member
Can't remember the last time someone did a real interview that is calling devs out on bullshit. Game journalists are basically pr mouth pieces who know that their jobs are pretty much obsolete, so they try their hardest to lick boots in the industry so they can be community managers or something else when they lose their jobs.
Charles Alan Ratliff
Member
I've always liked Peter Molyneux. I love watching him talk, because he's so passionate about what he does. I remember posting on the official forums for Project Ego (Fable) and being really excited for everything that was promised. Even though Fable didn't come close to those promises, I still thought it was a great game.
I didn't feel this interview was too harsh. I was expecting something much worse from reading some of the comments here. I enjoyed it. People should be held accountable for the things they promise, especially when those promises lead to others spending money.
I didn't feel this interview was too harsh. I was expecting something much worse from reading some of the comments here. I enjoyed it. People should be held accountable for the things they promise, especially when those promises lead to others spending money.
I see he's a "genuine and ambitious guy" getting thrown around a lot as a defense, even if that was the case, ambition isn't inherently a good thing if you can't ever follow up on it and keep letting people down.
Miyamoto DOES NOT go around promising impossible things, however he's a much bigger icon in video games, he's made a bigger impact in gaming, and I'm sure he's just as ambitious as Molyneux.
Molyneux isn't ambitious, because he doesn't even seem to actually try and implement what he promises: maybe you can call him a dreamer, though being too detached from reality isn't that good a quality when you run a business and have to make a consumer happy through your creations.
That's fine and dandy if you have a publisher backing you up, when you promise a release window to get money from your fans it's a quite different matter.
Miyamoto DOES NOT go around promising impossible things, however he's a much bigger icon in video games, he's made a bigger impact in gaming, and I'm sure he's just as ambitious as Molyneux.
Molyneux isn't ambitious, because he doesn't even seem to actually try and implement what he promises: maybe you can call him a dreamer, though being too detached from reality isn't that good a quality when you run a business and have to make a consumer happy through your creations.
That's fine and dandy if you have a publisher backing you up, when you promise a release window to get money from your fans it's a quite different matter.
Holy shit another crybaby missive about how game development is hard. You know what's hard? Work. A job. Everyone's job is hard. Everyone has deadlines. Everyone has budgets. Everyone fucks up those things all the time. The erudite game dev doesn't need to come down the mountain to explain how tough it is writing code every time one if their peers gets taken to the woodshed. Ever since the kickstarter backlash it's become unbearable.
sturgboski
Member
But he does know. In fact, in the interview he says that people seeking funding on Kickstarter aim lower than you know you need in order to get funding. This implies he purposefully low balled to succeed on Kickstarter, knowing full well his needed budget was higher (meaning he knew his budget). Also, he's been in the industry for what 30 years? If he's been designing games for that long I have imagine he should know how to budget. This isn't someones first project, he has run studios.
floatingcoffins
Member
Nah, John would sweep the leg.
Completely useless questions. The guy is a 30 year veteran well versed in PR spin. His answers would be:
No
No
I think my fans already trust me.
Comfort Jones
Banned
Dude if I said as much untrue shit as he did on a regular basis my closest friends would be giving me that kind of a thrashing until I died.
He completely deserves it.
Neuromancer
Member
Let's go over that one time he spent a night in a hotel rather than working on his game one more time.
Uno Venova
Banned
Actually maybe everyone should do this, just interview people like an antagonistic douches, you'll get the praise from the forum-goers who love industry members getting their comeuppance, but then you get to watch their confused reactions when industry members just do interviews much less and stick to pre-approved interviews on PR releases.
I'm not here to question if he is a (pathological) liar or not. I've talked about what I think of Molyneux and his way of handling stuff in an earlier post. Find it if you want that. My issue here is related to that first question only. It changed how the whole interview was made. It was not professional. It was emotional. And it was what John Walker was thinking when asked that. If you want proof, here is a later bit of the interview:
Comfort Jones
Banned
"It's just a game".
sturgboski
Member
So the status quo? I mean most interviews and articles are just PR and hype machine stuff. I fail to see what would change.
UncleCross
Member
What part of the name calling and childish attitude of the interviewer did you feel "respected your intelligence"? I found the interview to be horribly embarrassing. It's possible to conduct an insightful, mature interview without treating the other person like an asshole.