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[DCKing]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37822903&postcount=8417

I would say 5%

My info was relevant for the v4 dev kit.
The following one bring less than 1y0% increased performances, so it wouldn't be enough to manage a good looking current HD platforms game at 1080p. Maybe with optimizations from their engines, the SDK, the middleware used, etc, they can fiddle a few resources, but i think it won't be enough, considering the framerate wasn't 60fps at 720p for their title. Of course, it's on a third-parties, "port", and intricate use of the padlet, context.

No matter how powerful the Wii U is going to be, 1080p will be very hard considering that there's also at least one Upad taking up a considerable part of the fillrate. Most developers are probably going to optimize for 720p rather than fiddle around to get stuff running at 1080p.
The tradeoff is probably too big, and few people are going to notice the game running in 1080p anyway.

I just hope Smash and Pikmin are going to run in full HD. Resolution would actually add something to those games.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Wait, what? Almost no games are going to look like UC3, even on XBox 8 and PS9. UC3 had a HUGE budget, you would need just as HUGE a budget to match its graphical quality. This is why every current-gen game released after UC3 doesn't look like UC3.

so you're saying there won't be games with huge budgets on those consoles

 

[Fourth Storm]

Theoretical situation:

How would you guys (and gals) feel if Nintendo replaced or supplemented their Mario sports line with "Wii" branded games. For example, instead of "Wii Sports You (on my phone damnit. ) we'd receive fleshed out titles, such as:

-Wii Golf
-Wii Baseball
-Wii Tennis

For that last one, they could even sell a piece of plastic for the DRC to turn it into a tennis racket (in before "absolutely atrocious idea, Storm!") They'd obviously have to snap it well into place and have the user wear a wrist strap, but being able to see exactly where the ball hits the racket opens up much deeper gameplay possibilities.

But back to my main topic, I think that casuals who got started on Wii Sports are now ready for a bit more. It also protects Nintendo from claims that they're just throwing out Wii rehashes. With Resort, Nintendo seemed to be going for quantity over quality with games included. I can see this getting even worse as the DRC doesn't open up as many obvious opportunities for arcade-style sports experiences.

One last thing...

-Wave Race Resort

I'm calling it.

 

[antonz]

*sigh*

You know what? You're obviously 100% certain that this is just a 360 in terms of power, so I think it's best to just leave you to that. Just keep in mind that this is a speculation thread, not a preconceived notions thread.

You are just going to have to get over the fact the Tablet is a huge performance coster for the console. Even if its 2x or 3x thats not going to be enough to do anything substantially different from the 360/PS3. Better textures in areas sure but that lasts a year before super textures come out and the WiiU starts looking assey compared to competition

 

[BurntPork]

At 1080p 60fps, possibly.

That requires around 5x as much power. It's not something trivial.

You are just going to have to get over the fact the Tablet is a huge performance coster for the console. Even if its 2x or 3x thats not going to be enough to do anything substantially different from the 360/PS3. Better textures in areas sure but that lasts a year before super textures come out and the WiiU starts looking assey compared to competition

That logic only works if we assume that every game will use the tablet for complex 3D scenes, and even then it only needs about 1.5x as much power as 360 to render the same graphics on both a 720p TV and the controller.

 

[orioto]

How can they do that when no one outside of developers knows what 720/PS4 can even do or is capable of?

I don't know, i guess BG would tell us that we can guestimate exactly what they will be or at least a margin, based on what gpu and gaming engine do right now.

 

[Twenty7KVN]

Samaritan is a pipe dream. If they managed to get it running it probably looks like shit and Epic certainly wouldn't want to demo it

Oh i'm not saying it's going to happen.I Was saying that they don't have to demo a UE4 game,i should have been more clear.

 

[comedy bomb]

Wait, what? Almost no games are going to look like UC3, even on XBox 8 and PS9.

wat

 

[Dreamwriter]

so you're saying there won't be games with huge budgets on those consoles

I said "almost" no games. Definitely a very small number of launch titles, those would require even higher budgets to get them done in time for launch. Most games on a console aren't big budget AAA titles, which is what you need to be able to make those super-detailed models and lighting and effects.

 

[Conor 419]

Surely the PS4 and 720 are going to be pretty meager jumps if the Wii U is on par with them, especially given what people are saying here?

 

[walking fiend]

*sigh*

You know what? You're obviously 100% certain that this is just a 360 in terms of power, so I think it's best to just leave you to that. Just keep in mind that this is a speculation thread, not a preconceived notions thread.

only positive speculations are speculations; negative speculations are facts

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Surely the PS4 and 720 are going to be pretty meager jumps if the Wii U is on par with them, especially given what people are saying here?

pretty sure it's the opposite. PS4/720 will be generational leaps, while wiiU will be somewhere in between this current gen and next gen (as in ps4/720).

 

[IdeaMan]

If the framerate couldn't hit 60FPS, either they were doing something wrong or Wii U is only about 50% more powerful than 360.

The benchmarks always involved a different view of the main scene on the padlet. Basically, they had a Xbox360+ title (Xbox360 + more IQ stuff) on the TV + roughly a current gen content on the 480p additional screen. And it was 3 months ago, 3 or 4 SDK before the current one, before the arrival of the mass production dev kits that will bring at least 5 more fps without efforts (less than 10 though), maybe more when studios will be totally accustomed to those as they just arrived + optimization of their own engine + late addition of visual effects according to my sources (that will up again the visual impact and the contrast with the ps360 version) + expected optimizations in the memory/background app/software layer department of the system, unlocking more capabilities when Nintendo will finish & really implement it.

And as i said, the concern at the time was the resources draw of the padlet when used that way. Here's another field where the situation could only got better since 3 months, with hardware & development tools enhancement + studios more and more familiar with this asymmetrical display setting.

And again, it was in a third-party, "port", etc, context.

So really, nothing to worry about, the Wii U wasn't a Xbox360 1.5 3 or 4 months ago, it's even less the case now, and certainly not at launch. Edit to keep the expectations in check: as i said in my very first message, it won't be a 5x Xbox360 either.

 

[Van Owen]

That requires around 5x as much power. It's not something trivial.

So, you're essentially saying if Wii U is 4x or less powerful than a 360, it's a trivial upgrade over current-gen...

 

[BurntPork]

only positive speculations are speculations; negative speculations are facts

He's not speculating. He's just looking at everything from the point of view he expects and isn't weighing anything. I'd say the same to someone who came in here and said that Wii U is 5x 360 because of the IGN rumor.

So, you're essentially saying if Wii U is 4x or less powerful than a 360, it's a trivial upgrade over current-gen...

What?

WHAT

I just... what?

Are you some kind of word twisting machine? Oh god, my poor brain cells...

The benchmarks always involved a different view of the main scene on the padlet. Basically, they had a Xbox360+ title (Xbox360 + more IQ stuff) on the TV + roughly a current gen content on the 480p additional screen. And it was 3 months ago, 3 or 4 SDK before the current one, before the arrival of the mass production dev kits that will bring at least 5 more fps without efforts (less than 10 though), those same dev kits just arrived and studios aren't totally accustomed to these + optimization of their own engine + late addition of visual effects according to my sources (that will up again the visual impact and the contrast with the ps360 version) + expected optimizations in the memory/background app/software layer department of the system, unlocking more capabilities when Nintendo will finish & really implement it.

And as i said, the concern at the time was the resources draw of the padlet when used that way. Here's another field where the situation could only got better since 3 months, with hardware & development tools enhancement + studios more and more familiar with this asymmetrical display setting.

And again, it was in a third-party, "port", etc, context.

So really, nothing to worry about, the Wii U wasn't a Xbox360 1.5 3 or 4 months ago, it's even less the case now, and certainly not at launch. Edit to keep the expectations in check: as i said in my very first message, it won't be a 5x Xbox360 either.

Okay.

Sorry, Van Owen's epic word twist gave me a headache, so I don't feel like saying much more.

 

[AceBandage]

So, you're essentially saying if Wii U is 4x or less powerful than a 360, it's a trivial upgrade over current-gen...

No.
There's more than just number of FLOPs and what not.
The Wii U will be able to do a lot that the 360/PS3 can't, as well as being far more efficient at doing things they can already do.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Theoretical situation:

How would you guys (and gals) feel if Nintendo replaced or supplemented their Mario sports line with "Wii" branded games. For example, instead of "Wii Sports You (on my phone damnit. ) we'd receive fleshed out titles, such as:

-Wii Golf
-Wii Baseball
-Wii Tennis

If the games are genuinely fleshed out, as you said, and really great, then the character branding isn't such an important thing. They'd just otherwise be skins that affect nothing save for some kitsch comedic interludes, perhaps.

In short, I'd get them if they're awesome.

 

[frankie_baby]

Just a thought but could the pad display the exact same image as the TV without it costing any if the system power?

 

[AceBandage]

Just a thought but could the pad display the exact same image as the TV without it costing any if the system power?

The cost will be minimal, yes.
Or it could render a 2D image (like a map) without costing much.

 

[bgassassin]

Samaritan is a pipe dream. If they managed to get it running it probably looks like shit and Epic certainly wouldn't want to demo it

One thing I've felt is that if Wii U is UE4-capable, I guarantee they won't show a demo. At best it would be an announcement with Rein or Sweeney (maybe Capps) coming on stage for a photo op and a PR speech.

I don't know, i guess BG would tell us that we can guestimate exactly what they will be or at least a margin, based on what gpu and gaming engine do right now.

Actually we've been talking about the PS4 specs openly for awhile now.

 

[Van Owen]

No.
There's more than just number of FLOPs and what not.
The Wii U will be able to do a lot that the 360/PS3 can't, as well as being far more efficient at doing things they can already do.

Like what...?

I just feel like Wii was touted as being 2-3x more powerful than GC, and in the end the improvements on screen were negligible.

 

[frankie_baby]

The cost will be minimal, yes.
Or it could render a 2D image (like a map) without costing much.

I gathered a 2d image wouldn't cost much, just thinking maybe an exact duplication could be a common sight on wii u/ps4/Xbox whatever multiplats

 

[bgassassin]

Like what...?

I just feel like Wii was touted as being 2-3x more powerful than GC, and in the end the improvements on screen were negligible.

That's because Wii was essentially 1.5x better than GC. Not the same scenario.

 

[IdeaMan]

With all this hardware discussion I came to think of the Geoff Keighley interview with Reggie bound to happen. The interview last year was great I think, on various levels. Of course Reggie didn't provide any greater details about Wii U's hardware capabilities (apart from ticking of the HD box), but it was overall very informative. This year depending on what kind of graphical escapades we will see, I wonder if he will comment on the specs; perhaps not as elaborate as detailing clock frequencies, FLOPS and bandwidths but perhaps by talking about it in an Unreal Engine 4 context and what is expected in terms of portability from Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 (I doubt he will comment on Durango and Orbis, unless they are announced that is). Most likely he will dodge questions about this matter but perhaps if there is a certain title that really stands out in the graphics department he will boast a bit of what the Wii U is packing. Or maybe that unannounced feature IdeaMan wrote about will make the way we currently view graphics obsolete, who knows?

Here's the E3 2011 interview (part one) if you haven't seen it: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-nintendo/715144

Sorry, it's important matter, but not to this extent
One day, we'll have our holographic/full force feedback suit/virtual reality Nintendo system !

 

[AceBandage]

Like what...?

I just feel like Wii was touted as being 2-3x more powerful than GC, and in the end the improvements on screen were negligible.

They were "negligible" only because so few devs didn't actually use the system outside of Nintendo (whose games were far more than a negligible increase).

As for the Wii U, it'll be using hardware that is about two generations ahead of the 360/PS3 and be capable of effects and such that they can not do. It'll also have about 4 times the RAM which is a pretty huge increase.
Add to that direct pipelines for more advanced stuff and a far more efficient CPU and some custom DSPs for streamlining processes and it's a far more capable machine than what we have no in the console space.

 

[Twenty7KVN]

I gathered a 2d image wouldn't cost much, just thinking maybe an exact duplication could be a common sight on wii u/ps4/Xbox whatever multiplats

I really don't see the point in doing something like that.I would rather a simple map on the tablet.

 

[Van Owen]

That's because Wii was essentially 1.5x better than GC. Not the same scenario.

Not according to Perrin Kaplan!

I just wish if there were an obvious leap over 360, Nintendo would have shown it a year ago.

 

[StevieP]

Surely the PS4 and 720 are going to be pretty meager jumps if the Wii U is on par with them, especially given what people are saying here?

Wii U is going to be weaker than either of the other 2 consoles. How much so is still not yet written in concrete.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Just a thought but could the pad display the exact same image as the TV without it costing any if the system power?

Yeah, it should be able to just send out a downscaled version of the same output for no additional render cost. That's why the recent "we can't turn off the DRC streaming" rumour was frowned upon.

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Like what...?

I just feel like Wii was touted as being 2-3x more powerful than GC, and in the end the improvements on screen were negligible.

It wasnt 2 or 3 times. It was literally like 1.5 clock speed of the CPU and GPU, and around 1.5 times the RAM. The wii U will be no such thing.

 

[frankie_baby]

Like what...?

I just feel like Wii was touted as being 2-3x more powerful than GC, and in the end the improvements on screen were negligible.

Mainly though because developers didn't try, if we'd seen top tier teams with top tier ps2 Gen budgets making wii games they could easily have blown cube games out of the water

 

[BurntPork]

That's because Wii was essentially 1.5x better than GC. Not the same scenario.

Not to mention that Wii used the exact same hardware as GC while Wii U uses new hardware than 360.

Also, in before more word twisting!

 

[AceBandage]

Not according to Perrin Kaplan!

I just wish if there were an obvious leap over 360, Nintendo would have shown it a year ago.

Nintendo wanted to focus more on the controller than the specs of the system.

 

[Van Owen]

They were "negligible" only because so few devs didn't actually use the system outside of Nintendo (whose games were far more than a negligible increase).

I don't think SS was more visually impressive than TP on GC. I'd say more were in the realm of their GC counterparts...

But I look forward to see some dazzling new effects in action that aren't on ps3 and 360

 

[GameplayWhore]

Like what...?

I just feel like Wii was touted as being 2-3x more powerful than GC, and in the end the improvements on screen were negligible.

The Wii was upclocked in both cpu and gpu (I think) by 50%. That makes it 1.5x as fast.

 

[frankie_baby]

It wasnt 2 or 3 times. It was literally like 1.5 clock speed of the CPU and GPU, and around 1.5 times the RAM. The wii U will be no such thing.

Actually it was more than double the ram, and nearer 4x the decently usable ram

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

Not according to Perrin Kaplan!

I just wish if there were an obvious leap over 360, Nintendo would have shown it a year ago.

Nintendo wanted to focus more on the controller than the specs of the system.

Exactly.

A. not everything was nailed down and they dont talk about specs anyway.
B. The software just wasnt ready. It was more than a year away from launch. No one sane would show software for hardware that is still in development that far out.

 

[Twenty7KVN]

Not according to Perrin Kaplan!

I just wish if there were an obvious leap over 360, Nintendo would have shown it a year ago.

I was blown away by the demos they showed last year,especially the zeld tech demo that done using TP assets and developed on very early kits.

 

[bgassassin]

Not according to Perrin Kaplan!

I just wish if there were an obvious leap over 360, Nintendo would have shown it a year ago.

Couldn't care less about those not involved with directly with the tech. Same with Reggie checking the 1080p box.

The leap will be obvious, but you'll really only see that in exclusives, early multiplats that decide to use the hardware, and later multiplats from Xbox 3 and PS4 that will actually push Wii U.

 

[Plinko]

Getting away from all the graphics talk for a bit, what do you guys in here believe is the #1 absolute most important aspect for console success early on in next generation?

Is it price? Novelty? New ways to play? Graphics?

I'm just curious.

 

[Rösti]

Sorry, it's important matter, but not to this extent
One day, we'll have our holographic/full force feedback suit/virtual reality Nintendo system !

Yeah, it wasn't meant that seriously. And what I meant was more that this unannounced feature could perhaps help steer focus away from, potentially, heavily inferior (to Durango and Orbis) hardware. But I have a question though and while I'm not expecting you to know the full answer your input is always appreciated.

The DRC features according to several patent sheets a CPU, flash memory and internal memory. Do you believe these could, in some way, be allocated for the main console to use as hardware resources in a game where only Wii remotes are used, or doesn't Nintendo allow the Wii U remote to be toggled "off" during play (for Wii U games anyway)?

I don't expect the controller to sport any Xbox 360 equivalent under the hood, but perhaps its hardware could improve frame rate (for certain titles) a bit.

Getting away from all the graphics talk for a bit, what do you guys in here believe is the #1 absolute most important aspect for console success early on in next generation?

Is it price? Novelty? New ways to play? Graphics?

I'm just curious.

Good portability I believe is a key aspect for Wii U to succeed. And not only from Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, but from Durango and Orbis as well. I wouldn't want a repeat of the whole Wii charade.

 

[Redford]

I wonder how some of you are going to be able to actually sit down and enjoy these games when Wii U finally releases.

Spoiler

<3

Getting away from all the graphics talk for a bit, what do you guys in here believe is the #1 absolute most important aspect for console success early on in next generation?

Is it price? Novelty? New ways to play? Graphics?

I'm just curious.

Price, and BC.

Probably DD as well but I'd rather see smaller devs using it to even greater effect than this gen.

 

[Twenty7KVN]

Getting away from all the graphics talk for a bit, what do you guys in here believe is the #1 absolute most important aspect for console success early on in next generation?

Is it price? Novelty? New ways to play? Graphics?

I'm just curious.

Price and games.

 

[Portugeezer]

Even considering the Zelda demo, which was 1080p?

I thought it was 720p, with no antialiasing?

 

[TwilightPrincess]

The benchmarks always involved a different view of the main scene on the padlet. Basically, they had a Xbox360+ title (Xbox360 + more IQ stuff) on the TV + roughly a current gen content on the 480p additional screen. And it was 3 months ago, 3 or 4 SDK before the current one, before the arrival of the mass production dev kits that will bring at least 5 more fps without efforts (less than 10 though), those same dev kits just arrived and studios aren't totally accustomed to these + optimization of their own engine + late addition of visual effects according to my sources (that will up again the visual impact and the contrast with the ps360 version) + expected optimizations in the memory/background app/software layer department of the system, unlocking more capabilities when Nintendo will finish & really implement it.

And as i said, the concern at the time was the resources draw of the padlet when used that way. Here's another field where the situation could only got better since 3 months, with hardware & development tools enhancement + studios more and more familiar with this asymmetrical display setting.

And again, it was in a third-party, "port", etc, context.

So really, nothing to worry about, the Wii U wasn't a Xbox360 1.5 3 or 4 months ago, it's even less the case now, and certainly not at launch. Edit to keep the expectations in check: as i said in my very first message, it won't be a 5x Xbox360 either.

Thank you for keeping the pessimism in this thread down. But I wonder what your subjective x factor looks like. You surely don´t know everything about the specs. But if you´re telling us "It´s not 1,5x, it shall not be 5x", what is it then? 2x or 4 x? Tell us your ideas about that Even if you allready told us that some devs feel it looks twice as good. Spill your x-factor, you french tease

I´m staying with 3x, will i be disappointed?

 

[orioto]

The leap will be obvious, but you'll really only see that in exclusives, early multiplats that decide to use the hardware, and later multiplats from Xbox 3 and PS4 that will actually push Wii U.

Then ok i decide to believe you and be hyped!! You'll be responsible for my disappointment

 

[Pocks]

Price and games.

Definitely, although not necessarily in that order.

I'll gladly pay a higher price if the game selection is of a higher caliber.

 

[Van Owen]

I thought it was 720p, with no antialiasing?

It was.

 

[GhostTrick]

I still prefer thinking that Wii U = Xbox 360 with a padlet. Why ? Because I can't be disappointed

 

[daakusedo]

I was blown away by the demos they showed last year,especially the zeld tech demo that done using TP assets and developed on very early kits.

It made me think with mentioning tp asset, of another point in the pikmin 3 discussion we had before, to say it's not fated to be a wii up-res game, seeing how good the zelda demo was.