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This is Phil Fish

Hi Phil,

I enjoyed FEZ. Please do another one with more levels and in 3D. Oculus optional and multiplatform, yes please.

Hope you can enjoy game design again.

Cheers.

sb
 
You have every right to be as rude and disrespectful as you want, but then you need to either apologise (and not in the 'I'm sorry you got offended' way) or be prepared for people reacting to you with equal disrespect.

He certainly has every right to voice his opinions in any way he sees fit, but so do we.

Oh I know, that's why I mentioned he might 'burn bridges, etc'. I'm just saying that people trying to act like his opinion itself is strictly/quantifiably untrue/wrong are in fact the ones who are ACTUALLY wrong by saying that, because opinions are not facts, and therefore are not true or untrue. If they said 'he's wrong' then that would be their opinion, so I couldn't say they're wrong or right. But by prefacing it like 'what he is saying is quantifiably wrong, because he's putting it forth as an assertion of fact', they're killing their own argument because he in no way was asserting his statement as a quantifiable fact. He just made a remark that at face value can only be attributed to his opinion.

I probably just went off on a tangent with his whole right to say what he said thing.
 

Zabka

Member
I like Phil Fish but after watching half of that I never want to hear his name again.

ETA: Fez was awesome. Bought it on 360 and PC. If you haven't played it you should.
 

jeffers

Member
You have every right to be as rude and disrespectful as you want, but then you need to either apologise (and not in the 'I'm sorry you got offended' way) or be prepared for people reacting to you with equal disrespect.

He certainly has every right to voice his opinions in any way he sees fit, but so do we.

how I view it. Sucks that you get more focus when famous and more audience for stupid remarks, but I mean.. once burned twice shy. Or play it like Kamiya.
 

pa22word

Member
No, that honor probably goes to Derek Smart or Tim Langdell.

daikatana_john_romero_make_you_his_bitch.jpg
 
Very entertaining video. My only criticism is I think he overstates how people only talk about Phil/Nickleback as a concept. For Phil, his "choke" tweet isn't the wrong way for a famous person to act, its just the wrong way for a person to act. His relative fame amplifies the reaction but its possible to disagree with Phil's public comments while not caring about the other noise. Its possible to feel that way about Phil's comments while absolutely loving Fez and also not making conclusions about him as a person.

I'm biased by my love for Fez, but I have more sympathy for my concept of Phil (since I obviously don't know real Phil). Starting from the Zelda poster in his/Gomez's room, I see someone like myself who has grown up loving this medium and I respect him tremendously for contributing an exceptional work to its history.
 

NewGame

Banned
Very interesting.

The sort of attitude people have to developers can be quite sickening. Remember when Flappy Bird was taken down?
 

gngf123

Member
FEZ is one of my favourite games from the past few years. It's a shame that Phil had so much shit to put up with. Would've loved the chance to play FEZ 2.

This video is really interesting.
 

Rndm

Member
Cool video and most of it really seems to make sense.

I always liked him tbh, thought he got pushed into the role of an internet troll and the evil of gaming and he supported that, but he really got pushed into it. I liked him for openly sharing his opinion that was very often very true and most other people in the industry were afraid of saying. The thing about Japanese games sums that up. Everyone had problems with them and complained about how the devs mostly live in the past, but phrased it much nicer, Phil summed it up but also discussed why that is so, but people then didn't care anymore. So for him not to say anything when asked about the MS thing for example was good. People (the gaming media especially) expected him to rage, they only asked him for that, but he refused to give them their expected headlines. Well, they got them anyway, but he was in a position where anything he'd do would harm him and his reputation in one way or another.

I thought it was cool to see him at giantbomb's GDC stream this year, he was entertaining and funny, just like the other people there. I'd like to see him making a comeback and I think gaming needs guys like him, no, needs him as a person, just him, among all the other great people that we have. There are people around that are much bigger di**s than he ever was and those guys are mainly media. People on here (at least from what I've been reading back in the days) were most of the time much more reflected than the media when it came to Phil. I do not mind someone like him being honest, but others who sell their souls for money and never say anything negative (but not in the Jimmy Kimmel way) are way worse, even though some of them do have talent... in their final hours for example *cough*
 
Pretty interesting. I have absolutely no opinion on Phil Fish whatsoever, and barely knew the stuff that happened around him, but nontheless this video presents pretty lucid implications of what a collective is capable of.
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Very good video.

Internet fame does systematically dehumanize a person by turning them from a person into a concept...

And it is largely because we're cognitively deficient - unable to properly grasp at the reality of the situation and context.
 

DMiz

Member
I was really surprised - and enjoyed the piece quite a bit. At first I thought the video was going to just lampoon Phil Fish, but it turned out to be a more thoughtful video than I initially imagined.

(Maybe OP can be updated to just state the premise? I definitely would have been more invested to click from the OP, but ended up scrolling through a few of the others' comments first just to see what it was about because the title wasn't obvious).

I personally agree with a lot of the other comments that mention that the video makes an interesting point about internet celebrity in general. Definitely interested in other pieces that this channel might do because this one was fantastic.
 
I don't know about Phil = fame.
People seem to really hate his guts because he acts like such a douche.
Thing is there are plenty of people who act like douches on the Internet and yet people don't hate their guts, they don't know or care who they are.

why would i talk about phil fish at a cocktail party
You mean I shouldn't talk about videogame designers at a cocktail party? Now I see where it has all gone wrong...
 
FEZ was my favorite game of 2012. So bummed about the cancellation of FEZ 2. Whether you like Phil or not, he's obviously a talented dude and I wish he was still making games.
 

This was more of the advertisers fault than it was John Romero's though. He did reluctantly agree to using this though, but it is something the guy will never live down. John Romero is actually a pretty nice guy in reality.

As for Phil Phish, I don;t really have much to say about him. I never followed the controversy, nor have I played Fez or any of his other games. I guess the guy just liked to draw attention to himself, as the video clearly points out. It seems like he was trying to keep his opinions honest no matter how outlandish they may have sounded, but it seems like he couldn't take any of the criticism directed back to him.
 

Karu

Member
Great, interesting video.

And it brought back the memory of Marcus' incredibly stupid argument/rant on IW. There is really no reason in what he says, lol.
 

KNT-Zero

Member
What i dont understand... this is considered Funny :

And when Phil makes a Comment everyone is like "OMG HE SAID SOMETHING BAD".

Kamiya is probably not gonna get any backlash at all. Fish sprung to fame with one of his first games, and Kamiya has a long reputation in big games (DMC, RE2, etc). Fish was an easy target because he started being vocal and then being famous.
 
While some of the things he said made me rather upset, Phil Fish one of my idols in terms of game design. FEZ is one of the most addicting and captivating platformers I've ever played. The grand scale of the world and how the puzzles interact with the environments themselves is damn impressive.

So... I'm kinda split. lol
 

Red

Member
Good video that covers celebrity in general, internet celebrity in particular.

The only time I was really bothered by Fish was when he insulted that guy at GDC. That was an immature comment. It's the reason I didn't buy Fez until it showed up in a Humble Bundle. I'm not going to pick apart that video because it is good, its arguments are strong. But if we can consider Fish's twitter comments as indicative of his personality and opinions, we don't need to pretend that it is filtered through media. The video omits that in favor of the observation that news outlets will cherry pick newsworthy tweets for their headlines, and ignore the rest. That's true as well, but you could observe for yourself Fish's "strong opinions" and arguments by following his tweets. He wasn't always the jerk he's been made out to be, but he often was. The reason it was easy to paint a picture of him is because there were a lot of examples to paint that picture with. Fame didn't turn him from regular guy into asshole, it just made those instances of his arrogant behavior more visible.

With all that said,ultimately, as concluded by the video, "we don't know him." We only get a small, selective slice of his life to view. I saw him as a perfectionist, as critical of others as he was of himself, a talented artist, arrogant, and immature. But again, that counts for nothing.

What I found more disturbing about everything surrounding Fish was the internet vitriol that got slung around whenever he was brought up. The hate people are so easy to express online is a bigger problem. That video covers Anita Sarkeesian for a little bit: what she does is only a good thing. How could it be otherwise? And yet, like Fish, she receives countless hateful messages every time she says a word. I don't think any individual person could ever offend me as much as the grime of that internet mob.
 

Zodzilla

Member
I always hate it when people misplace the context of Fish's "assholish" responses.

"Suck my dick, choke on it" was a direct response to someone needlessly insulting him. it wasn't directed toward everybody.

phil-fish-tweet.jpg


When people say that he's insulting Japanese games, they falsely equate it to insulting Japanese people. The guy is just giving his offhanded opinion on that country's video game output at the time (I believe the dude says he's a massive fan of Super Mario Bros in Indie Game The Movie, if I recall correctly).

I just read someone equate him to Mel Gibson in this thread and that he should be shunned at the same level. No. There's a massive difference between "I think your country's games suck" and "Why don't you get raped by a pack of n*****s." One is actually racist as shit, while they other is just a dude being kind of a dick.

I mean, Fish makes less inflammatory opinions than the people here at gaf and sometimes writes them in even less inflammatory ways than people here would write about Justin Bieber or Miley Cyrus. Plus he made one of my top 10 favorite games of the past 5 years or so.

Plus he sat and hugged Ryan Davis with a silly ass wig on. That's makes him alright enough for me.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Good piece, but to be honest Fish was just a guy who squandered a truly golden opportunity by talking too much.

He should've just let his work do the talking for him, especially once the attention he was attracting personally started to become increasingly negative and destructive.
 

ced

Member
Great video, and fuck it I like Phil Fish.

Sure he could use some restraint when tweeting, but nothing he ever said was what the internet made it out to be.
 
Prediction: Fez 2 is nigh.

Cool video and most of it really seems to make sense.

I always liked him tbh, thought he got pushed into the role of an internet troll and the evil of gaming and he supported that, but he really got pushed into it. I liked him for openly sharing his opinion that was very often very true and most other people in the industry were afraid of saying. The thing about Japanese games sums that up. Everyone had problems with them and complained about how the devs mostly live in the past, but phrased it much nicer, Phil summed it up but also discussed why that is so, but people then didn't care anymore. So for him not to say anything when asked about the MS thing for example was good. People (the gaming media especially) expected him to rage, they only asked him for that, but he refused to give them their expected headlines. Well, they got them anyway, but he was in a position where anything he'd do would harm him and his reputation in one way or another.

I thought it was cool to see him at giantbomb's GDC stream this year, he was entertaining and funny, just like the other people there. I'd like to see him making a comeback and I think gaming needs guys like him, no, needs him as a person, just him, among all the other great people that we have. There are people around that are much bigger di**s than he ever was and those guys are mainly media. People on here (at least from what I've been reading back in the days) were most of the time much more reflected than the media when it came to Phil. I do not mind someone like him being honest, but others who sell their souls for money and never say anything negative (but not in the Jimmy Kimmel way) are way worse, even though some of them do have talent... in their final hours for example *cough*

We have always at war against Oceania.

No seriously, I just take that salesman approach to a manufactured, reductionist, hateful statement and you'll buy anything I say like he will yeah? No? Why not?

Face it: you didn't pay attention till that happened and let him describe the situation to you. Quite why people take these manufactured, reductionist, hateful statments on that subject at face value while letting actual research, critiques, and eyewitness accounts of the situation languish in obscurity is beyond me. Perhaps they're just sparkly and jingle jangle just so when shaken or something.
 
Phil Fish got treated the way he did because of the way he treated others. That's probably all there is to it. Whoever was responsible for his upbringing seemingly failed to teach him a modicum of tact, respect and manners. Internet fame just amplified this.

I don't know Phil Fish, and I doubt you know him well enough to assess his overall personality. This is an arrogant comment of a disproportionately personal nature. He doesn't even know you exist, yet here you feel justified in insulting his upbringing under an alias.

All I know is that Fez is awesome. I look forward to watching this video on the commute. Also, everyone should catch Indie Game: The Movie.
 
I don't know Phil Fish, and I doubt you know him well enough to assess his overall personality. This is an arrogant comment of a disproportionately personal nature. He doesn't even know you exist, yet here you feel justified in insulting his upbringing under an alias.

All I know is that Fez is awesome. I look forward to watching this video on the commute. Also, everyone should catch Indie Game: The Movie.

This is true, but to a point, Nobody knows the real him, and context is needed with all of his comments.

That being said, it's perfectly acceptable to have disdain for a personality without going off the deep end. Comparing him to a racist is just stupid. Saying "meh, the guy isn't my cup of tea" is far more acceptable than that.

And can we please stop equating Gaf as one person? Every time there's a topic like this, someone goes "well Gaf says even worse things" and that brings nothing to this discussion at all.
 
I think he was more of a victim of our modern connected society and the hypocrisy of it all, than he was a victim of himself. The only thing that separates Phil from the most of us is how much we speak our honest opinion and how many people care about it.
 

Frith

Member
I think everyone is missing the most important point

why is the video in 4:3?

is it some internet hipster thing?

can I get this on vhs?
 

Zodzilla

Member
Because it's a fact that Japanese game developers don't suck. You can't just call anything someone says an opinion. Sometimes people are just wrong.

It's a generalized opinion that you and many others disagree with, but it's still an opinion. He's not saying that black is white or light is dark. The dude was asked about what he thought of Japanese games and he replied with "they suck." Just his general consensus.
 

nynt9

Member
I remember ages ago (like 2007 maybe?) on TIGForums where Fish claimed to have invented this extremely novel thing called a "trixel" and everyone pointed out to him that what he was talking about was basically a voxel and he got really mad and started insulting people and kept claiming this was his completely original idea.

He's always been pretty weird and kind of a dick.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I think he was more of a victim of our modern connected society and the hypocrisy of it all, than he was a victim of himself. The only thing that separates Phil from the most of us is how much we speak our honest opinion and how many people care about it.

Well shouldn't he have been smart enough to know that once you are famous or well known; that you have to watch what you say to some degree?
 
During one of Fez's early early early gameplay videos, I felt like being an internet jerk and leaving a snide youtube comment about it "taking the Super Paper Mario mechanic and putting it in an empty boring world."

Phil Fish messaged me directly with something along the lines of "You are not a creator, what do you know" and then left a comment in my youtube profile (which doesn't have any public videos) "There's nothing here, you are a not a creator."

I guess I deserved it. Mostly I feel bad for getting under his skin.

That being said, Phil Fish wouldn't even register a blip on the eccentricity scale found in musicians or actors. He's a dick with poor stress management skills, but so long as that doesn't impede his artistic creativity then we are better for it.
 
I watched the video, didn't like it for a variety of reasons, then decided to watch it again to organize those reasons and post them here.

First of all, this is a video that defends Phil Fish in every possible way and dismiss as irrelevant everything that Phil Fish did or said that could be considered wrong, so this video really starts from a biased position to treat its matter, and it is my opinion that this bias is clearly perceived form the words of the author.

In the early days if his "fame" Phil had the chance of showing how arrogant and self entitled he was as a communicative human being: this is not a judgement about Phil in himself, I don't know him personally and even if I did I don't think I could be able to pass a judgement on his entire persona, no one can do that about anybody; what I'm judging is the Phil Fish that wrote on twitter, on forums, spoke to journalists and audiences when he was publicly speaking, and I'm judging what he wrote/said.

3:05 "Phil wasn't insulting a stranger, he was insulting the audience": that's simply wrong, and it's one one the main wrong points of the video (to me). Phil was still insulting a stranger, or to put it better insulting back a stranger, the only thing that changed was that Phil had become more famous, at least in certain circles, and being famous simply means that more people will listen to you, read what you write, pay attention to you. The problem with Phil's attitude was not that the attitude was targeted to his "audience" instead of strangers, but that his attitude was bad for a person in general. But because being famous means that more people will become interested in what you do, also what you do right will be amplified (releasing a good game and selling hundreds of thousands of copies, for example).

About being more famous than he deserved: well, I do think this is a legitimate criticism, even if I don't think you can blame the person that's famous if he/she didn't ask for it. The very complaint "you don't deserve to be famous" implies that there an intrinsic good in being famous, and that's actually true: the good of being famous comes with material perks (being payed money for speaking), feeling of being "important" (those people are listening to me instead of to others), chances of self-advertisement (buy this thing that I did). If Phil was criticized for being famous without deserving it, it was because people felt that those perks could have gone to someone else who actually deserved to have nice things, and I don't see how this kind of criticism could be dismissed.

About the Nickelback rant: he could have given the point in 10 seconds, this part is to me an actually badly written part of the video, because it's not necessary: hating a famous band that makes allegedly shitty music means hating the possibility that shitty music becomes popular. But this is a false equivalency: internet vs Phil Fish started way before he released Fez, and Fez is actually a good game, and even some people that find Fez enjoyable can't stand Phil Fish. Phil Fish was not hated because he became famous after releasing a shitty game: Phil was hated because he acted like a jerk, and the fact that the people that think shit of him either are only his closest acquaintances or half of the gaming internet is not relevant: the cause for the hate is different than that of Nickelback.

I do think the video author is right in saying that Phil was the embodiment of undeserved attention: he got a lot of hate just because people hated a series of concepts that gravitated around Phil, like the idea of circle-jerking with other indies, or government funding for pretty pixel art, but this not the main reason Phil got so much hatred. This has nothing to do with Phil saying that japanese games suck: backlash against a person that uses such a generalization such bluntly (especially in that context) has nothing to do with vapid prejudices about an indie developer become famous; it is instead related to the fact that that person says stupid things in stupid ways.

The video doesn't even considers those stupid Phil's remarks about the fact that apparently "PC are for spreadsheets" and "FEZ is a console game" when asked about a PC release for Fez.
xpvNkcw.png

But then Fez gets a release date on steam, and instead of apologizing for his ignorant remarks, the best way Phil finds to treat the "boycott" movement is to offend:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/224760/discussions/0/828936719094418300

The "choke on it" tweet: it was not really sensible, even if it was in answer to another offensive tweet, but he didn't just say "suck my dick. choke on it": he used as a justification to the offense the fact that he won the IGF grand prize, implying that since he won the prize he got a free pass against criticism. This is juvenile behavior, and I associate it a with a person that doesn't really like to use his brain.

"news, editorial, criticism has no repercussion: now it's the video author that's saying stupid things, and also when it says that the "they suck" moment didn't happen: it actually happened, and the problem with "you guys" is not related to an alleged generalization of japanese culture: is related to the actual generalization that Phil made about japanese developers and games, and only afterwards, discussing with Jon Blow, there was some "clarification", that no one ever needed if Phil didn't say stupid things in the first place.

Discussions about racism and tokenism happen frequently both in forums and websites but even if they didn't it would have nothing to do with the arguments against the way Phil Fish acted: you can't dismiss a discussion by saying that another related discussion is not taking place.

9:35 "I won the IGF grand prize. suck my dick" is NOT STRONG OPINION. Again, this guy seems to not even understand why Phil Fish got so much hate.

10:49 The whole "right ways / wrong ways of being famous of the internet" part is, to me, completely misguided: the author is saying false things. First of all, there is a super simple definition of right or wrong way on the internet: right or wrong way in general. Behave well, don't be arrogant, don't have prejudices, be responsible, consider different points of view, you can pick and choose. In MANY situations Phil behavior was bad, and being famous simply makes it matter more, to more people: probably down the street in this very moment someone else is not behaving well, but it will matter only to the handful of people around him/her. And then, "no one can empirically prove whether Phil is or isn't an asshole": maybe he means "logically" or "mathematically" instead of "empirically", but you actually can empirically prove if Phil "acts" as an asshole: as I said, passing a judgement on an entire person is impossible, but it is very much possible to judge his/her behavior, words, actions. It is possible.

11:37 Marcus Beer part: I agree that Marcus said stupid things in that occasion, with 0 logical bearing. Phil was being famous "wrong" for Marcus Beer, that's true, but that doesn't necessarily represents the view of the majority of people who actually criticized some of Phil's behavior during the last years.

13:00 "psychologically necessary to hate Phil": pure bullshit, I'm not wasting time further commenting this

About the last stretch: ok on the internet sometimes you become famous without wanting or foreseeing it, but who cares? The internet fame package also includes the fact that if you want to bust the falsely perceived misdeeds of yours you can do it in a second... but of course you can't if you actually acted like a asshole, and in that case you can always search for an apology... but Phil didn't, he always arrogantly dismissed any criticism and always used his accomplishments as a shield against it.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
It's a generalized opinion that you and many others disagree with, but it's still an opinion. He's not saying that black is white or light is dark. The dude was asked about what he thought of Japanese games and he replied with "they suck." Just his general consensus.



That is in no way a fact, just an opinion.

Then there's only one of two ways to look at his comment. Either his opinion is wrong or it's uneducated (i.e. not smart). We can't go around saying things that are completely against the grain and still ask others to respect us. For Example....if I say the following......

1. Micheal Jackson was a horrible performer
2. Lebron James isn't good at playing basketball
3. Brazil doesn't know how to play soccer (a.k.a. futbol)

then I should be laughed out of the room and viewed as a joke. If we consider those opinions, then YES opinions can be wrong.
 
Excellent video with some great points.

I've actually had nightmares were I'd get famous on the internet for something completely random and then had to restructure my life as a result.

What a weird world we live in.
 

Jobbs

Banned
I think Phil Fish's entire internet presence is an Andy Kaufman style shtick/joke and almost no one is actually perceiving this.
 

Atomski

Member
Im still waiting for Phil to create a new amazing indie game under a different name and when it wins awards and sells great he will walk out on a stage and be like it was me all along bitches! choke on it!

I would be amazing..
 

Rndm

Member
Prediction: Fez 2 is nigh.



We have always at war against Oceania.

No seriously, I just take that salesman approach to a manufactured, reductionist, hateful statement and you'll buy anything I say like he will yeah? No? Why not?

Face it: you didn't pay attention till that happened and let him describe the situation to you. Quite why people take these manufactured, reductionist, hateful statments on that subject at face value while letting actual research, critiques, and eyewitness accounts of the situation languish in obscurity is beyond me. Perhaps they're just sparkly and jingle jangle just so when shaken or something.

You should have talked to me before then. I did never get personally invested in the story, for obvious reasons, but I had my opinion and always thought what I described. But there was no reason to express it on here before. And I don't just say what the guy in the vid says. Just like me he just takes the most obvious events that happened.. Should I have just posted it in a random thread? 'Hey guys, yes Mario Kart 8 is amazing now let me tell you my opinion on Phil Fish.' Naaahh. I think this thread is a nice way to just express that this whole Fish thing is just a joke and just shows that we are pretty much like the 'dumb' other people that w*nk to every piece of 'news' on TMZ. People just like drama and if there is none, they make it up. Hating on Phil was just hating to hate for fun.

You are correct about the rest though.

Who cares anyway I guess. Maybe Panoramical will be interesting.
 
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