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[B For Bendetta]

Well it seems like it comes down to either loving it (thinking Tony's dead), loving it (thinking the tension is what Tony feels and will feel forever), or hating it and thinking it was a cop out.

I don't really like it, but I don't think it is a cop out. David Chase was so intimately involved with this show that to think that he did it this way because he didn't know what to do or didn't want to tie it up is unrealistic. All of the things in the finale and final scene are present to create the exact debate between all of the people that love it, including the smash cut. That being said, I think it is artistically irresponsible and somewhat cheap. The trick is an old one to create controversy. More importantly, This is true art, and the goal of true art is always to concentrate on moral truth. Chase seemed to abandon this with this final scene and the smash cut. Leaving us with two conclusions to debate between is not artistically responsible. The goal of the artist is not to be indecisive, or let the reader decide. Chase should have made the message of the story clear in that moment. A lot of great art creates debate about what the comment on moral truth is, and endings are notoriously hard to do, but I feel like this could definitely be done more effectively.

 

[Halvie]

OT sorta, but has anyone heard when the other seasons are coming to blu ray, or if they are coming?

 

[Siebzehn50]

I didn't watch it live, I actually just finished it a month or so ago. Tony definitely died and I loved the finale.

 

[dark10x]

I'm definitely one of those that loved it. Beautifully done.

 

[Clipjoint]

Best series finale of all time.

 

[Tobor]

Chase had done this before in the series. We never found out what happened to the Russian in the Pine Barrens either. And here's what Chase has to say about that:

They shot a guy. Who knows where he went? Who cares about some Russian? This is what Hollywood has done to America. Do you have to have closure on every little thing? Isn't there any mystery in the world? It's a murky world out there. It's a murky life these guys lead. And by the way, I do know where the Russian is. But I'll never say because so many people got so pissy about it.

:lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Barrens_(The_Sopranos)

 

[Mr. Sam]

He got shot in the head. Ain't no-one surviving that.

 

[Speevy]

I wish they had ended it by having that detective who tipped Tony off play both sides.

He could have eliminated Tony and Phil in one fell swoop as a way of sewing up the whole mess.

 

[yacobod]

tony was shot dead, i dont really have a problem with it now, but i dont know if i liked it at the time, might have felt like a cop out, but on rewatch i think it works if you take it from Tony's POV, he didnt know the hit was coming, and then bam lights out

 

[lljride]

Honestly the further away we get from it the more I love it. When it happened it had me running for the remote to see if the cable went out like everyone else, but now I think it was really well done.

 

[Speevy]

I think it matters less what people think of the final episode than it does what people think of the final season.

 

[LCGeek]

I said it when it happened I'm glad they left it up in the air despite obvious leanings towards one likely outcome. I like what most say it ending the way it did was almost perfect considering mobster cliche plots and ending. Closure or paranoia in this case they are one in the same.

 

[LiveWire]

He was absolutely killed in my opinion. The rest of the families were tired of his antics, and really didn't need him or his crew's drama. Most of his crew was looking to defect or dead.
He had it coming, and deserved it. The whole point of him talking to Bobby about what it's like when you die was the exact way they ended it. You finally got an insight as to how he felt every day because he had made so many enemies, and you get to see how it is to get whacked.

/thread Dude walked into the bathroom, picked up a placed handgun, came back out, put it to the back of Tony's head and pulled the trigger.

 

[Madman]

/thread Dude walked into the bathroom, picked up a placed handgun, came back out, put it to the back of Tony's head and pulled the trigger.

Why would he have to go to the bathroom to get the gun? Why wouldn't he have just shot Tony as soon as he saw him? Tony could have escaped in the meantime.

Doesn't make sense.

 

[levious]

Why would he have to go to the bathroom to get the gun? Why wouldn't he have just shot him as soon as he saw Tony? Tony could have escaped in the meantime.

placing a weapon which has no previous contact with the hired killer at the site of a hit is common, at least in the world of fiction.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Why would he have to go to the bathroom to get the gun? Why wouldn't he have just shot Tony as soon as he saw him? Tony could have escaped in the meantime.

Because-- because, um, Godfather references rule!

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I hated the show and I thought the ending was terrific.

It just played out so spectacularly. He's sitting there living his extremely fucked up life, and gets shot. The clincher is the entire thing plays out through the audiences eyes.

Seriously loved it. Too bad the rest of the show sucked.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Chase had done this before in the series. We never found out what happened to the Russian in the Pine Barrens either. And here's what Chase has to say about that:


:lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Barrens_(The_Sopranos)

Prime Example to me of David Chase no longer caring about story and just fucking with the audience to make himself feel edgy.

 

[Krowley]

I thought it was great. I liked it then, and I like it now.

 

[Madman]

placing a weapon which has no previous contact with the hired killer at the site of a hit is common, at least in the world of fiction.

Everyone gets the gun in the bathroom reference from the Godfather.

Because-- because, um, Godfather references rule!

See?

The only reason that happened in the Godfather was because Michael couldn't carry a gun to the meeting. It would make no sense in the context of what happened in the Sopranos for the gun to be hidden.

I'll stop here for now, because I have a couple other complaints about the last season that just won't be resolved (Dr. Melfi and Johnny Sack being my biggest complaints).

 

[levious]

Everyone gets the gun in the bathroom reference from the Godfather.

See?

The only reason that happened in the Godfather was because Michael couldn't carry a gun to the meeting. It would make no sense in the context of what happened in the Sopranos for the gun to be hidden.

I'll stop here for now, because I have a couple other complaints about the last season that just won't be resolved (Dr. Melfi and Johnny Sack being my biggest complaints).

why not? This way, the hitman can get near the target without being armed. What if the target has protection, what if it's the form of a Government agent or something? I know we're stretching it here, but I don't see how the strategy isn't anything more then setting up something with as much precaution as possible.

And if it is nothing more than a reference to Godfather, then that just makes it more of a clear scene then.

 

[criesofthepast]

Loved it. But I admit I didn't get it at first. I thought my cable went out and I started breaking shit in my house.

After I called a friend of mine and was told his TV blacked out as well; I realized what had happened.

David Chase is a God.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Prime Example to me of David Chase no longer caring about story and just fucking with the audience to make himself feel edgy.

I've written like four drafts of this post all in essence saying...

What the fuck.

Jesus. They practically beat the viewing audience over the head with "You won't hear it or see it when it happens." And it's still open to debate for some of you?

Did they have to show him fall dead, and his families reactions for it to sink in?

No wonder David Chase thinks so little of his audience. You guys have trouble understanding anything without the writers leading you by the hand.

 

[Madman]

why not? This way, the hitman can get near the target without being armed. What if the target has protection, what if it's the form of a Government agent or something? I know we're stretching it here, but I don't see how the strategy isn't anything more then setting up something with as much precaution as possible.

And if it is nothing more than a reference to Godfather, then that just makes it more of a clear scene then.

Why would a hitman need to be unarmed going in when he was doing an open murder in the middle of a restaurant? To be cool?

If it was a Godfather reference, then Chase is pretty hypocritical given his rantings against Hollywood.

What the fuck.

Jesus. They practically beat the viewing audience over the head with "You won't hear it or see it when it happens." And it's still open to debate for some of you?

Did they have to show him fall dead, and his families reactions for it to sink in?

No wonder David Chase thinks so little of his audience. You guys have trouble understanding anything without the writers leading you by the hand.

Yes, it is open to debate, because the way he was possibly killed would make no sense. Why go into a bathroom then come out and kill him? Why not shoot him right in the face as soon as he walked in? Once again, it would be hypocritical of Chase to have directly ripped from the Godfather while voicing his disdain for the typical Hollywood stuff.

The whole last season felt lazy. FFS, the whole Finn thing being wrapped up with one line of dialogue alone was worthy of criticism.

 

[U2NUMB]

I was a big fan of the show.. watched seasons 1-4 and then due to lack of HBO missed out on the last couple seasons. I heard all the outcry about the ending and I just watched it for the first time.

My initial impressions... the whole parking issue with Meadow.. I think Tony was killed and due to horrible timing of her walking through the door right when she did gave cover to the guy coming out of the bathroom and killing Tony. I think they were building up that perfect timing.

Perhaps this was mentioned and I am sure it was talked about but I agree with others that this was from Tony's perspective and in the very last second of his life the last thing he saw was his daughter. It was a way to not see it coming.

Brilliant ending to the show..

 

[levious]

Why would a hitman need to be unarmed going in when he was doing an open murder in the middle of a restaurant? To be cool?

no, in case once he gets there he decides that it's not a good time/scenario to carry out the hit, that way he can leave the scene, and being unarmed, there'd be little way to know he was there to carry out something like a hit.

 

[Get'sMad]

Journey went from being somewhat ironically likable to detestable again after this aired. Couldn't walk into any bar for months without hearing "Don't Stop Believing" at some point in the night.

Edit: Oh yeah, I guess the episode was alright.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Why would a hitman need to be unarmed going in when he was doing an open murder in the middle of a restaurant? To be cool?

If it was a Godfather reference, then Chase is pretty hypocritical given his rantings against Hollywood.

Yes, it is open to debate, because the way he was possibly killed would make no sense. Why go into a bathroom then come out and kill him? Why not shoot him right in the face as soon as he walked in? Once again, it would be hypocritical of Chase to have directly ripped from the Godfather while voicing his disdain for the typical Hollywood stuff.

To symbolically chain the events of Phil, and Silvio's deaths to Tony.

To set up a scene. Little more then that.

I personally think the guy had a gun ready, but didn't want Tony to see him coming. He got popped in the head from behind.

 

[Madman]

no, in case once he gets there he decides that it's not a good time/scenario to carry out the hit, that way he can leave the scene, and being unarmed, there'd be little way to know he was there to carry out something like a hit.

While that scenario is possible, it is shoehorning. There is no good reason for the gunman not to have the gun on himself. He could have walked in with the gun hidden on his person, seen that it wasn't a good time, and walked out. Nobody would have stopped him, nobody would have questioned him.

 

[dyls]

Loved it. And Phil Leotardo getting

Spoiler

his head run over by his own car with his babies in the back seat smiling away was one of the most awful and satisfying death scenes ever. Our (the audience's) own bloodlust for such an obnoxious and hateful character juxtaposed with the horrifying method of his death was just perfect.

 

[Madman]

To symbolically chain the events of Phil, and Silvio's deaths to Tony.

To set up a scene. Little more then that.

I personally think the guy had a gun ready, but didn't want Tony to see him coming. He got popped in the head from behind.

If Chase is so insistent upon not using typical Hollywood cliches and believes so much in making the audience think, then I have no clue why he would use such a direct reference that would so clearly indicate Tony dying.

And if Tony did get shot, why didn't the assassin just walk in there and kill him? Tony could have fled in the time he was in the bathroom, why not just kill him?

I'm not even in the camp that Tony wasn't killed there. I just think if he was, it was poorly done and used an incredibly obvious reference leading up to it.

There is more than just this last scene that bothers me about the end of the Sopranos. Hell, there is more than just the last season that bothers me about the Sopranos. But the series is done, and I would rather just remember what I liked than explaining in detail what annoyed me about the show.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

If Chase is so insistent upon not using typical Hollywood cliches and believes so much in making the audience think, then I have no clue why he would use such a direct reference that would so clearly indicate Tony dying.

And if Tony did get shot, why didn't the assassin just walk in there and kill him? Tony could have fled in the time he was in the bathroom, why not just kill him?

I'm not even in the camp that Tony wasn't killed there. I just think if he was, it was poorly done and used an incredibly obvious reference leading up to it.

There is more than just this last scene that bothers me about the end of the Sopranos. Hell, there is more than just the last season that bothers me about the Sopranos. But the series is done, and I would rather just remember what I liked than explaining in detail what annoyed me about the show.

Fair enough.

 

[Confused101]

I'm in the "Tony's dead" camp after reading some of that GIGANTIC article posted earlier.

It was definitely Tony's show. It revolved around him and his family. Without Tony, there is no Sopranos.

The end of Tony's consciousness = the end of the show. And that's what we saw. We just saw it through Tony's point of view. The absolute void of death.

I think it fits so that's what I'm going with.

 

[Cindres]

Many people who think Tony dies point to a comment Bobby made from an earlier episode in Season 6.

"At the end, you probably don't hear anything, everything just goes black."

Is it a legitimate clue, or are people reading too much into it?

Bumping because this week i finally got round to watching the second half of Season 6 after seeing this thread.
And i have to say, i wasn't sure, so i came to find this thread and see opinions, and this immediately convinced me. I think Tony died. Because of this post.
Especially since after Bobby died Tony had a brief flashback to Bobby saying that quote, i think to remind us.

 

[dankir]

I remember watching it and when the screen went black... I was like WHAT THE FUCK, FUCKING CABLE PIECE OF SHIT

And then the credits started. I don't think anything else could have been done to satisfy the viewers. So leave it up to them to decide what happens.

Great fucking ending.

 

[Ecrofirt]

I'm in the "Tony's dead" camp after reading some of that GIGANTIC article posted earlier.

It was definitely Tony's show. It revolved around him and his family. Without Tony, there is no Sopranos.

The end of Tony's consciousness = the end of the show. And that's what we saw. We just saw it through Tony's point of view. The absolute void of death.

I think it fits so that's what I'm going with.

you don't see it from Tony's point of view.

We, the audience, are viewing Tony and his family.

All of a sudden it goes black for US, not for them. Hell, the last image is of Tony watching Meadow enter the restaurant.

It went black and silent for us. Killed us. Not them.

 

[Confused101]

See, I thought that too when I first saw it. But that article explained it quite well. The short of it is, Chase sets up that scene with a very significant pattern. The bell rings, we see Tony look up at the door, then we see who comes through the door through Tony's point of view. This happens about 5 times(?) in that same exact order. So for the last bell, we see Tony look up and then we expect to see Meadow walking through the door from Tony's perspective. Instead, we get complete nothingness but it's still Tony's point of view as per the pattern that had been established through the entire scene.

Everyone's entitled to their own interpretation, but I really liked this one. The article does a much, much better job describing it.

 

[yacobod]

The short of it is, Chase sets up that scene with a very significant pattern. The bell rings, we see Tony look up at the door, then we see who comes through the door through Tony's point of view. This happens about 5 times(?) in that same exact order. So for the last bell, we see Tony look up and then we expect to see Meadow walking through the door from Tony's perspective. Instead, we get complete nothingness but it's still Tony's point of view as per the pattern that had been established through the entire scene.

Everyone's entitled to their own interpretation, but I really liked this one. The article does a much, much better job describing it.

and this is why the sopranos ending is a lot better than the recent lost finale, where the lost writers felt it was necessary to hold the audience's hand thru Christian Sheperd's explanation to Jack (the audience) that he was in fact dead, that his friends were dead, and that everything on the island happened, and it was indeed the most important part of their lives

 

[Teddman]

you don't see it from Tony's point of view.

We, the audience, are viewing Tony and his family.

All of a sudden it goes black for US, not for them. Hell, the last image is of Tony watching Meadow enter the restaurant.

It went black and silent for us. Killed us. Not them.

Yes, this is the brilliance of the ending.

The viewer gets "whacked."

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

Apologies for the bump, but I just finished up the show and figured this would be better than making a whole new thread to discuss the ending.

Anyway, Tony definitely gets whacked at the end. I've been sitting here watching it over and over again for the last hour, and that's the only thing that makes sense. At first I thought maybe Tony was just being paranoid, and that was essentially what the ending was all about -- Tony having to live out the rest of his life in fear of being hit, having to look over his shoulders at all times. However, as I watched it over again, it's the exact opposite. Tony is too relaxed, not paying much attention to his surroundings, which ultimately gets him killed. The Members Only Guy locks eyes with Tony more than once, yet Tony never notices him. And the only reason why he keeps looking up at the door when someone walks in is because he's expecting his family, not because he's paranoid.

It's also been drilled in our (and Tony's) heads how things happen so fast that you don't even see it coming. Perfect example seen here when Gerry Torciano gets whacked in front of Sil. Silvio then goes on to explain to Tony later in the episode that he never heard it coming, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that little piece of dialogue towards Tony had significance and wasn't just exposition.

So yeah, it's pretty much a no brainer. Can't even say it's up for debate, tbh.

 

[ATF487]

Apologies for the bump, but I just finished up the show and figured this would be better than making a whole new thread to discuss the ending.

Anyway, Tony definitely gets whacked at the end. I've been sitting here watching it over and over again for the last hour, and that's the only thing that makes sense. At first I thought maybe Tony was just being paranoid, and that was essentially what the ending was all about -- Tony having to live out the rest of his life in fear of being hit, having to look over his shoulders at all times. However, as I watched it over again, it's the exact opposite. Tony is too relaxed, not paying much attention to his surroundings, which ultimately gets him killed. The Members Only Guy locks eyes with Tony more than once, yet Tony never notices him. And the only reason why he keeps looking up at the door when someone walks in is because he's expecting his family, not because he's paranoid.

It's also been drilled in our (and Tony's) heads how things happen so fast that you don't even see it coming. Perfect example seen here when Gerry Torciano gets whacked in front of Sil. Silvio then goes on to explain to Tony later in the episode that he never heard it coming, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that little piece of dialogue towards Tony had significance and wasn't just exposition.

So yeah, it's pretty much a no brainer. Can't even say it's up for debate, tbh.

I watched it the other day, too, and I came to the same conclusion. Also in Soprano Home Movies, Bobby mentions how you probably never see it coming, and then Tony talks about how he's getting shit taken care of in case he gets whacked.

It's a great ending, though. A hint of direction but ambiguous enough to be argued for years to come.

 

[gdt]

I love ambiguous endings. I don't think Tony gets killed however, but I can definitely see it both ways.

 

[brianjones]

it's not ambiguous.. you're just wrong.

 

[gdt]

it's not ambiguous.. you're just wrong.

Don't stop believin'!

 

[Speevy]

it's not ambiguous.. you're just wrong.

That's ambiguity.

Maybe you're both wrong.

 

[brianjones]

 

[Speevy]

Is Nemo dead? Does the animation start over at the moment of his death, or is Lakitu bonking him for all eternity?

 

[brianjones]

you should have it cut to black right when he gets hit

who's nemo btw

 

[Speevy]

Now it's you who gets whacked.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Now it's you who gets whacked.

I concur.