John Kowalski
Banned
Schafer is just genetically a good guy holy crap
such a cool guy
such a cool guy
-
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Tim Schafer defends Peter Molyneux.
- Thread starter BY2K
- Start date
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Pretty much. You can't ride the internets goodwill and then moan when you squander it and you get the opposite end of the internets emotional spectrum. Thats why publishers and venture capitalists and so forth are the known quantity because thats the professional world and theres only so much noise that yields. Turn the hearing-aid to the entire internet however and yeah, you're gambling. Better arrive on time with everything you promised!
I imagine Schafer is particularly defending the "You can't expect me to know how to budget!!" line of enquiry. You can be a fantastic game designer or writer, but that doesn't mean you know fucking anything about the correct way to budget and project manage. Thats the problem with a lot of the games industry. Producers are demonised for not "getting the art, maaaan" and being all about the bottom line, when in fact 10 years later its them you can thank for the lights still running and not Mr "what if we work another year and see if we're not bankrupt" Creative.
His whole career is based on pre game hype. At least everything after the first Fable, his last good game. Coincidence?
That's basically what I was trying to say in the other thread. Consumers and press should call developers out on things we mess up, but it is important to keep it respectful and, the case of the press, professional. Respect as human beings. Consumers don't have to care about how a game is made if they don't want to, as long as devs deliverer what was promised, but we can all do that without mockery, insults, threats (it happened, although I know it was the minority) and attacks.
pretty much every news story and resultant GAF thread about Peter Molyneux since the time of Black & White 1 has been met with mean shit from people who called him all the same things they are now.
You're under the impression publisher money doesn't?
Molyneux is not just over promising, he's intentionally making up stuff in order to sell his games.
I quite like Peter Molyneux. I'm not going to defend him but there is just something about him that I like. He is a very charismatic guy and I think it's pretty admirable that he is still so passionate about games. He does definitely over promise features of his games and that sucks, but to me he is an incredibly likable guy.
hate incoming in 3...2...1.......
FunkyMunkey
Banned
It's not bad form, it's simply giving the interview a theme.
A man with an extremely well-documented history of lying to sell and promote his product is somehow the party that has been wronged.
Peter Molyneux is a habitual liar. The real sad thing is the amount of 'journalists' and game developers that have come out and defended his pathetic salesman tactics. It really sheds a light on the role of ethics and morals in the videogame business.
Peter Molyneux is a habitual liar. The real sad thing is the amount of 'journalists' and game developers that have come out and defended his pathetic salesman tactics. It really sheds a light on the role of ethics and morals in the videogame business.
Do you honestly feel they're equivalent?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I still adore Schafer, but uh, this. Though I still feel Doublefine's blunders in the last few years haven't been nearly as blatant as Molyneux promising things he knew were never going to happen or essentially conning people into buying fake DLC for Curiosity.
I'm still really torn on how I feel about the RPS interview though, since while Peter deserves to be directly called out on his shit but at the same time Walker seemed to cross the line almost immediately.
"Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious, its very sound an enchantment. Those who listened unwearily to that voice could seldom report the words that they had heard; and if they did, they wondered, for little power remained in them. Mostly they remembered only that it was a delight to hear the voice speaking, all that it said seemed wise and reasonable, and desire awoke in them by swift agreement to see wise themselves. When others spoke, they seemed harsh and uncouth by contrast; and if they gainsaid the voice, anger was kindled in the hearts of those under the spell."
That is true, but Double Fine is still in the same boat enthusiasts whose imagination is bigger than what they actually able to do.
Exactly
Disaster Nebraska
Banned
Schafer? Yeah, he'd jump to the defense of Molyneux. Schafer does the same exact stuff, though not on as large of a scale.
jaundicejuice
Member
Tim Scahfer is acting like The Molyneux Cycle doesn't exist and that the Curiosity contest winner and Godus are the lone reasons for why people would hold Molyneux to task.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Nah Tim. Nah.
Peter Molyneux deserves no benefit of the doubt, no sympathy, no pats on the back. This man has consitently and deliberately lied and exagerrated about damn nearevery single one of his games. Except this time he didn't do it on a publisher's dime, he did it with NOT ONLY his fans, but he completely lead on a single dude who had almost NOTHING to do with Molyneux except for being a little...shall we say...curious?
Fuck Molyneux Forever.
You could say this matter is
.
Molyneux made the bed he sleeps in. He's the
to his own jail cell.
Never trust Molyneux would be the moral to this
.
Peter Molyneux deserves no benefit of the doubt, no sympathy, no pats on the back. This man has consitently and deliberately lied and exagerrated about damn nearevery single one of his games. Except this time he didn't do it on a publisher's dime, he did it with NOT ONLY his fans, but he completely lead on a single dude who had almost NOTHING to do with Molyneux except for being a little...shall we say...curious?
Fuck Molyneux Forever.
You could say this matter is
black and white
Molyneux made the bed he sleeps in. He's the
dungeon keeper
Never trust Molyneux would be the moral to this
fable
As I said in another thread:
I think Molyneux's fuck ups surrounding this aren't explained away with the "game development is hard" defense people like to use.
Unless developers want us all to believe they are all incompetent with no real plans in place to carry out their vision, no compunction about misleading their fans, and then when they get bored have no problem moving on to the next big thing until they get called out on it. Which is why as I said before if this is the shit that game developers consider normal then I am feeling bad for publishers who have put up with it for so long.
I think Molyneux's fuck ups surrounding this aren't explained away with the "game development is hard" defense people like to use.
Unless developers want us all to believe they are all incompetent with no real plans in place to carry out their vision, no compunction about misleading their fans, and then when they get bored have no problem moving on to the next big thing until they get called out on it. Which is why as I said before if this is the shit that game developers consider normal then I am feeling bad for publishers who have put up with it for so long.
At least the Double Fine documentary is there to show how a project like Broken Age could turn out the way it has - they have lived up to their goal to be transparent (Spacebase notwithstanding).
Now I want to see what a typical day of game development is like on a Peter Molyneux project. Where's that documentary?
Now I want to see what a typical day of game development is like on a Peter Molyneux project. Where's that documentary?
Which is what he actually pretty much says in the video
Thus far both Schafer and Molyneux took in a lot of money on Kickstarter, and delivered half of a game.
But to be fair, Godus is probably going to turn out a lot more like DoubleFine's abandoned Early Access game than their half-delivered Kickstarter game.
"Are you a pathological liar?" is a combative, uncouth question. You can approach the same issue with a less confrontational question: "You have a track record of failing to deliver on promises," says the same thing without making you look like an ass that no one will want to interview with in the future.
As a strident Molyneux critic, for years now, since Fable and Black & White, I think that it is unfortunate, both for Molyneux and for RPS. The matter could have been handled in a more constructive manner.
So on that, I agree with Schafer.
As a strident Molyneux critic, for years now, since Fable and Black & White, I think that it is unfortunate, both for Molyneux and for RPS. The matter could have been handled in a more constructive manner.
So on that, I agree with Schafer.
I think Schafer's case is more understandable than Molyneux's. Schafer asked for $300k for the game ($100k was the documentary) and they got 11 times that amount, so they had to change a lot of things. There was a higher chance of things going wrong because of those changes.
Molyneux barely got what he asked and he still failed spectacularly. Why? Because he asked for less money than they needed. Which makes things even worse.
ALLseeingEYE
Member
Please internet, stop having different opinions than me!
In the end, I'm sure the defense force is just nature balancing itself out. Criticizing someone, or trying to hold them accountable is cool, but there's a point when things go too far. If you think the apparently overwhelming dev support for Molyneaux isn't justified, perhaps you might do well to try to open your mind a bit more, and think about why so many developers are showing their support.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
yup.
thewhitehawk
Member
His defence wasn't to say the accusations aren't true, that was the very first thing he said. His defence is that the tone is wrong and things are being blown out of proportion.
"No one" (and by that I mean most people) was immensely upset with Peter Molyneux before those articles came to light. Most of the people were "dormant" about the issues and sure there was the occasional mocking or pointing out of his mistakes but when someone points it out, it's suddenly a huge deal and "we" act as if he should be crucified for it.
I don't think "we" hate Molyneux as much we're simply following a current trend and the suggestion that we should.
It's a slow news month, he was an easy target the masses are easily influenceable by the power of suggestion. It's as simple as that.
Don't understand? Perhaps a bit of comedy will help you understand what's really going on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
I never really understood the hate for Bobby Kotick, people weren't lining up to buy Activision games before he took over and then people blame him when he churns out a game people actually buy in droves. Like do people understand how businesses work?
Sylvrfonic
Member
Good form, Tim. I think that interview could have accomplished most of what it set out to accomplish without the dreadful tone.
Piston Hyundai
Member
RPS is a PC site though.
If you don't like that Molyneux has a long history of exaggerating in his game pitches, don't support him on Kickstarter. If you're not comfortable with potentially throwing money away on nothing, don't support anything on Kickstarter. Using the same kind of language someone would use about ISIS when talking about him makes you look like a child.
Purple Cheeto
Member
The American Molyneux defends the original Molyneux?
Next thing you know Inafune is gonna tell us that Molyneux is not our bitch.
Next thing you know Inafune is gonna tell us that Molyneux is not our bitch.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Oh right...
Molyneux has built a
theme park
He uh... Has.. taken us to
the movies?
LurkerPrime
Member
Won't someone think of the man lying, cheating, and stealing from others?!
/s
Seriously, there comes a time when a person makes too many mistakes or errors - to the point that it cannot be seen as unintentional. Peter Molyneux is in this group, make no mistake about it; this is a man that's made a career out of misleading others - and he even admits as much during the RPS interview.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
You could say that curiosity killed the cat.
The Illiterati
Member
Hey guys quit picking on Peter! In the meantime, here's a link to Double Fine's latest soon to be failed/delayed/mishandled Kickstarter!
Pinko Marx
Banned
What a weak argument this is. What I'm reading is "No one got mad until this was brought to light."
Well...duh? How are we to get mad about stuff we don't know is going on? I don't get this defense.
YianGaruga
Banned
I disagree with pretty much all of that. Most people (on GAF at least) have known for a long time that Molyneux is a hack. Comics like this have existed for a long time. The bullshit behind Curiosity and Godus was very obvious to a lot of people. I wouldn't really say anyone hates him because this isn't about emotions. But people always disliked his obvious lies.
I don't think the tone is wrong and things aren't blown out of proportion. It's a good thing that this is very prominent and loud right now so that the people who didn't know already start to realize what Molyneux does and stop believing and supporting him. What he's doing is damaging to videogames as a whole.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
That's a damn good quote. I like both Molyneux and Schafer, but they both come across as incredibly poor managers. They're both creators who have cool visions, but when it comes to managing a schedule and budgeting, they just aren't very good.