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[LordRaptor]

What makes you assume I don't use my PC for gaming? Who are you to tell me that my opinion is meaningless? If all you want is to slander Microsoft in an echo chamber, I'm sure there are forums for that.

I don't, but at least one poster in this thread vigorously defending Microsofts actions has explicitly said that he is entirely unaffected by anything they do in the PC space.

I probably shouldn't have quoted you in particular, its just frustrating that if you put MS in the topic with any implication of criticism a swarm of posters rush to defend their actions no matter what the situation might be.
So I apologise if you are discussing in good faith for quoting you with that remark.

 

[horkrux]

How did I not hear about this? I'm very glad I stayed on Windows 7.

I've been using Windows 10 on my laptop and desktop computer for quite a while now and even I haven't heard about any of this, let alone experienced any of this myself.

Honestly, this thread has devolved into people grabbing their virtual pitchforks. But what else to expect, when the guy that fueled all this (Sweeney) didn't have anything meaningful to add to this discussion in the first place.

 

[univbee]

Considering how many business apps to this day pretty much completely refuse to cooperate properly if you have UAC enabled, I don't think Win32 is going anywhere within our lifetime. If Microsoft can't get business clients to implement ideas which are actually good and over a decade old, and should really be a minimum standard, nobody's going to jump on UWP in the professional world, especially with MS Office still being Win32 and most business apps needing to interface with that somehow.

 

[mcrommert]

This honestly seems like boogeyman nonsense.

MS is going to actively deter people away from one of the major reason they use Win10. Sure.

Sad to see Sweeney pushing such obvious FUD garbage...how the great fall

EDIT: Seriously, before this i always thought he had overstated but reasonable objections to what he thought microsoft was doing...now he's been outed as a raving lunatic he is officially ignored.

 

[gamz]

Considering how many business apps to this day pretty much completely refuse to cooperate properly if you have UAC enabled, I don't think Win32 is going anywhere within our lifetime. If Microsoft can't get business clients to implement ideas which are actually good and over a decade old, and should really be a minimum standard, nobody's going to jump on UWP in the professional world, especially with MS Office still being Win32 and most business apps needing to interface with that somehow.

Of course. MS is having problems getting a ton of business off Windows XP let alone Win32.

 

[TBiddy]

I don't, but at least one poster in this thread vigorously defending Microsofts actions has explicitly said that he is entirely unaffected by anything they do in the PC space.

I probably shouldn't have quoted you in particular, its just frustrating that if you put MS in the topic with any implication of criticism a swarm of posters rush to defend their actions no matter what the situation might be.

I think what he wrote was, that the missing overlay from UWP wasn't affecting him.

You can turn it around. If you put MS in the topic with any implication of praise a swarm of posters rush to critizise their actions no matter what the situation might be. The world isn't black & white, and your opinion about UWP, Sweeney and what have we isn't necessarily the "truth".

It's the nature of a forum. You're bound to get a bunch of people disagreeing. Some are more aggressive than others, some might be shills for one company or another and some again have no interest in the matter, but like prodding people in order to create drama. But that doesn't mean, that (as someone insinuated earlier) everyone who thinks Tim Sweeney is out of line her, are shills.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

I don't, but at least one poster in this thread vigorously defending Microsofts actions has explicitly said that he is entirely unaffected by anything they do in the PC space.

I probably shouldn't have quoted you in particular, its just frustrating that if you put MS in the topic with any implication of criticism a swarm of posters rush to defend their actions no matter what the situation might be.

But see, you are at the head of every UWP thread. Can you not see how claiming that those who disagree with you looks suspect? As if you're insinuating that your position is the only logical one to take. I'm a PC gamer, so MSFT's actions do and will affect me, but I'm for reasonable discussion and fact-based analysis.

 

[watership]

I'm sure Microsoft don't want to support win32 indefinitely, especially given that they have a clear alternative. That they may choose to slowly reduce functionality is entirely believable. Since other platforms seem to be getting away with banning alternative app stores, Windows has a precedent to assume it's safe for Steam to be squeezed out by fading win32 support.

*shrug*

He may or may not be paranoid, but I think this is totally plausible.

There isn't another company I know that keeps backward compatibility so long. It's actaully cost them security and stability in the past (win16), That's the fear. What if they decide to make changes to improve that leaves the past software behind. Stumpokapow comment above is more realistic view I think. Sweeney's comments sound like it's malicious intent, but it's more a concern that OS upgrades eventually lead to older software not getting supported. This a reasonable fear,

I suspect this will lead to a DOSBOX like solution for WIn32 .. if it ever happens.

 

[duvjones]

However in a hypothetical situation where EA, Ubisoft and Activision start releasing their things on Linux,

That is something that has been happening with paticularly large titles, but there are still points of lag between builds that can be counted in years

NVidia and AMD start to care about Linux drivers

To be honest, between the two, AMD gives a damn more... it's partly the reason that they changed the driver model to AMDGPU/AMDGPU-Pro and keep trying to move blobs more into user-space than in the kernel driver. It allow them more room to navigate in the extremely fast pace development of Linux and co.
Nvidia... Linus still as a bird for that company. Unless is involves tegra, they have little reason to care and keep moving against stream.

The thing MS need to worry about is if Google release a proper Android PC OS.

Android can already be build on x86, it's more that that is the least of Google's concerns with the OS. It's extremely low in priority

Actually, there is a similar mess on the Linux side recently in regards to sandboxing, though certainly less controversial due to general lack of store-pushing, UI changes and such.

Ummmm you talking snap and flatpak, I assume... if that is the case, snap would have quite a bit to say on that... the store pushing.

 

[amdb00mer]

OMG! Can't stop laughing! That's great!

 

[univbee]

Also lest we forget, Microsoft actually pushes an Enterprise version of Windows 10 called LTSB, which does not have the store or support UWP apps. It doesn't have Edge, either. And this is getting guaranteed support until 2025 at least.

 

[SOR5]

Where's the evidence of this happening?

It's that simple, you made an assertion, what evidence do you have Tim?

The early 90's isn't evidence, it's evidence of Internet Explorers market domination tactics sure, but it's not evidence that there's a Steam sabotage operation. And believe it or not saying "well I wouldn't be surprised if its true" still isn't evidence.

Win32 works fine and the entire world and market is dependent on it still, Steam works fine on W10. You can paint all the maybes and possibilities you want, but unless you have direct proof of this happening then it's useless.

 

[Thanati]

Utter nonsense.

 

[Totbjorn]

As someone who lived through Microsofts earlier anti competitive behavior, I have no problem believing they will try something like this.
Usually their tactics involve actually making their solution good and desirable before trying to sink the competition though so we should have some time left before we feel the pain.

I don't really use Widows for anything except running chrome and games so I'm thinking of dipping my toes into Linux gaming. At work I'm already fully on Linux. What is the state of Steam OS right now? How about Steam on other Linux variants?

Thankfully since most games are built on engines like UE4 porting to Linux is much easier now than before. Hopefully all the big engines start using Vulkan soon but right now it looks like only Unreal Engine supports it. Anyone know the status of the others? Unity has it listed as in the "Research" stage.

 

[mcrommert]

Also lest we forget, Microsoft actually pushes an Enterprise version of Windows 10 called LTSB, which does not have the store or support UWP apps. It doesn't have Edge, either. And this is getting guaranteed support until 2025 at least.

SHHH don't bring reason into this argument based on facts and business agreements. Instead we should speculate endlessly based on nothing like sweeney

Good thing Epic doesn't really make much in the way of games anymore or there would be a real problem

 

[Trup1aya]

A lot of things were promised at Build that don't fucking exist 4 months later.
If pointing out empty and unfulfilled promises is "spreading hate" what do you call blindly defending PR statements?
Why, in fact, if you are not a PC gamer is it so important to tell people who are that things they are actively losing are no big deal because it is all part of Microsofts glorious 5 year plan?

e:


I literally said it was possible accidental, but intentions don't actually matter when the end result is the friends list that most Pc gamers use now no longer works.
It is a NET LOSS for Pc gamers. There is NO GAIN.

Complex software update hasn't released in the 4 months it's been announced = it's never coming.

I find it funny that people keep mentioning Build, because MS mentioned a lot of plans that directly addressed Sweeney's concerns. And his response is "that sounds nice, but I don't want their plans I want their commitment"

... Ok

 

[BobLoblaw]

A handful of potential Microsoft customers got them to change their "online only" plans for the xbox one. And some of you actually think they would dare touch Win32? You're got to be a fool to believe that.

 

[gamz]

A handful of potential Microsoft customers got them to change their "online only" plans for the xbox one. And some of you actually think they would dare touch Win32? You're got to be a fool to believe that.

Are you seriously comparing online only to win32?

This thread.

 

[LordRaptor]

But that doesn't mean, that (as someone insinuated earlier) everyone who thinks Tim Sweeney is out of line her, are shills.

But see, you are at the head of every UWP thread. Can you not see how claiming that those who disagree with you looks suspect?

I don't believe I have ever accused another poster of being a shill, despite being routinely called out personally as "a hater" because I do not believe I am by default always right (although there's a surprisingly high correlation there) nor do I make my arguments based on anything other than the arguments pothers make.

Complex software update hasn't released in the 4 months it's been announced = it's never coming.

I find it funny that people keep mentioning Build, because MS mentioned a lot of plans that directly addressed Sweeney's concerns. And his response is "that sounds nice, but I don't want their plans I want their commitment"

... Ok

Promises aren't worth anything.
I don't care how many times an MS PR spokesperson reaffirms their deep seated love and commitment for PC gaming, I care how many times specifics are implemented, and how they are implemented.

As of right now, the time and date of this post, literally none of the concerns Tim Sweeney originally raised have been satisfactorily addressed.
There is no current working resolution on an off the shelf new PC.

It is hugely dishonest to claim that all of his concerns were addressed in March, because nothing has been implemented, and words - especially the words of PR - are exceedingly cheap.

 

[FaintDeftone]

SteamOS can never become popular, only with a very niche audience, even if Microsoft would fuck it up (which they won't).

Why would people limit themselves to Linux gaming and a Linux OS in general?

Never say never. A lot of PC gamers are very loyal to Steam. If Valve could create a good enough edition of SteamOS that catered towards gamers, I could see people going that direction. PC gaming is niche anyways. If consumers are okay with building their own computers to play these games, I'm sure they'll check out a new OS if it benefits them. We'll see what happens though. Also, who says they would stick with Linux? They could develop their own OS from the ground up.

Given, this is just a thought if Microsoft really does try to knock out their competition and I doubt any of this would happen. I wouldn't see Valve just rolling over and taking it though if Microsoft tried to shut them out.

 

[SOR5]

Are you seriously comparing online only to win32?

This thread.

He's saying that if online play policies can be completely reversed by consumer outrage, theres absolutely no way Microsoft will rip the living essential core out of its OS by removing Win32 support.

 

[John Wick]

We've heard good arguments on both sides. Maybe Tim has overdone it a tad bit? But we shouldn't just brush his wider concerns under the rug either. MS has a history of anti competitor and monopoly issues. MS have missed out big on an App and games store, mobile and devices. While Google and Apple make a fortune off their OS's MS is left with scraps from its own.

 

[Nzyme32]

People like to paint Sweeney as some massive conspiracy driven guy, forgetting about the historical precedent of MS and most OS holders deprecating "legacy" features and support. With a focus entirely on the Windows Store and conversion of Win32 apps to something UWP compliant, none of this is so far fetched.

And let's not forget Sweeney is not some purely anti-microsoft "salty" guy. Just two weeks ago Sweeney did an interview with GameSpot that got entirely ignored here:

Tim Sweeney Criticizes Microsoft/Oculus and Talks Project Scorpio

During that, he blasts Microsoft and Oculus, and suggests that both companies are using anti-competitive business strategies. At the same time, however, Sweeney also defends Oculus’ right to garner platform exclusives and talks up Scorpio / faster console cycles / Windows 10. More on point specifically on Microsoft:

----
Q - You've previously said some pretty harsh words in regards to Microsoft about monopolizing game development on PCs. You wrote an op-ed with The Guardian. Do you still feel strongly about that?

A - I'm not a general critic of Microsoft. I just have one specific concern. ...my view is that Windows 10 is an awesome operating system, it's the best yet. Windows Store is a good store, and it's great to have another source of games out there and it's great that Microsoft will be bringing so many of its Xbox games to PC. I think all of these are great steps forward for the PC. My sole concern, and it's a big one, is with UWP (Universal Windows Platform). Microsoft creating a framework by which they could very easily shut off the PC as an open platform in the future. There's a real risk if developers adopt this technology widely and Microsoft flips one switch and suddenly you can't install games from sources other than Microsoft on some versions of Windows. That's a fear I continue to have. It's the reason that Epic has not adopted that, the UWP technology. Despite feeling that there are some great technical features in it. It's a safer Windows API that prevents a ...It runs in a sandbox like iOS and prevents applications from behaving like a virus, yeah. But my view is that Microsoft has to make clear commitments about where this technology will go in the future, if they want developers to adopt it; because if they do not do that, it would be foolish for us to go down that path, which basically gives them all of the rope they need to hang us.

Q - I'm guessing that the controversial Windows 10 automatic updates do not sit very well with you then.

A - Well, as a user, I'm not a fan of that. I think Apple has a good balance in making it super easy to update your operating system, but not mandatory. I think that would be an improvement. I think it's perfectly valid to have automatic updates be the default. It is the right answer for most users, but the problem with the forced patches is that they bundle things that fundamentally change the rules of the platform. Now, Apple doesn't do that. Apple's never released an iOS update that takes away fundamental rights you have to use their platform, whereas at Microsoft, they've actually been doing that. One of the forced updates had lock screen ads, and now, your original Windows, which used to be under your control is now just playing ads that you have no control over. Another forced update prevented Windows Pro users from disabling the Windows door on the platform, which these corporations buying Windows Pro thought they had control, you know, their IT departments thought they had control over that aspect of the system, but then Microsoft changed the rules, and that's a really nasty thing, Microsoft giving itself the mandatory power to change the rules on you at any time, and as a user, there's nothing you can do about it. You know, that's wrong. It's that culture that exists within Microsoft. I don't think everybody at Microsoft feels that way, but the culture that's driven by some of their executive leadership believes that it's not your PC, it's their PC, and they can do what they want with it, and they'll do whatever they can get away with. It's constantly figuring out what they can do without users going into open revolt and discovering more and more everyday where that boundary is.
----

Actually reading these interviews shows there's a fair bit more thought than "salty" "conspiracy"

 

[mcrommert]

That is the EXACT opposite of what is going on here. It's so ironic that you would even post that.

We're looking at a situation built on a lot of possibilities, with a very low threshold of factual basis. If Microsoft breaks Win32, it won't just affect Steam. They will literally undermine every aspect of their own operating system, and for what? To sell some AAA games through an app store?

This nonsense is beginning to look a lot like the political fear-mongering agendas that are rife throughout the US and Europe. We want to talk about how Microsoft launched a half-baked app store to play sandboxed AAA games through? Fair game. We want to talk about how invasive these Windows 10 install prompts have been? Fair game.

These are things that are happening, that can be documented, AND PROVED. And as someone studying to be an auditor, I am pretty amazed by some of the responses to this. You don't walk into an audit committee and say "Hey guys, I think bad things could likely be going down. There's a possibility of fraud, if we just follow a virtual pathway of possible decisions ..." You'd better be able to show some receipts.

Exactly...i don't know sweeney's angle in all this but its insane. They couldn't break steam without breaking so many other programs. And that would be suicide for them as compatibility is one of the major foundations of windows.

People like to paint Sweeney as some massive conspiracy driven guy, forgetting about the historical precedent if MS and most OS holders deprecating "legacy" features and support. With a focus entirely on the Windows Store and conversion of Win32 apps to something UWP compliant, none of this is so far fetched.

And let's not forget Sweeney is not some purely anti-microsoft "salty" guy. Just two weeks ago Sweeney did an interview with GameSpot that got entirely ignored here:

Tim Sweeney Criticizes Microsoft/Oculus and Talks Project Scorpio

During that, he blasts Microsoft and Oculus, and suggests that both companies are using anti-competitive business strategies. At the same time, however, Sweeney also defends Oculus’ right to garner platform exclusives and talks up Scorpio / faster console cycles / Windows 10. More on point specifically on Microsoft:

----
Q - You've previously said some pretty harsh words in regards to Microsoft about monopolizing game development on PCs. You wrote an op-ed with The Guardian. Do you still feel strongly about that?

A - I'm not a general critic of Microsoft. I just have one specific concern. ...my view is that Windows 10 is an awesome operating system, it's the best yet. Windows Store is a good store, and it's great to have another source of games out there and it's great that Microsoft will be bringing so many of its Xbox games to PC. I think all of these are great steps forward for the PC. My sole concern, and it's a big one, is with UWP (Universal Windows Platform). Microsoft creating a framework by which they could very easily shut off the PC as an open platform in the future. There's a real risk if developers adopt this technology widely and Microsoft flips one switch and suddenly you can't install games from sources other than Microsoft on some versions of Windows. That's a fear I continue to have. It's the reason that Epic has not adopted that, the UWP technology. Despite feeling that there are some great technical features in it. It's a safer Windows API that prevents a ...It runs in a sandbox like iOS and prevents applications from behaving like a virus, yeah. But my view is that Microsoft has to make clear commitments about where this technology will go in the future, if they want developers to adopt it; because if they do not do that, it would be foolish for us to go down that path, which basically gives them all of the rope they need to hang us.

Q - I'm guessing that the controversial Windows 10 automatic updates do not sit very well with you then.

A - Well, as a user, I'm not a fan of that. I think Apple has a good balance in making it super easy to update your operating system, but not mandatory. I think that would be an improvement. I think it's perfectly valid to have automatic updates be the default. It is the right answer for most users, but the problem with the forced patches is that they bundle things that fundamentally change the rules of the platform. Now, Apple doesn't do that. Apple's never released an iOS update that takes away fundamental rights you have to use their platform, whereas at Microsoft, they've actually been doing that. One of the forced updates had lock screen ads, and now, your original Windows, which used to be under your control is now just playing ads that you have no control over. Another forced update prevented Windows Pro users from disabling the Windows door on the platform, which these corporations buying Windows Pro thought they had control, you know, their IT departments thought they had control over that aspect of the system, but then Microsoft changed the rules, and that's a really nasty thing, Microsoft giving itself the mandatory power to change the rules on you at any time, and as a user, there's nothing you can do about it. You know, that's wrong. It's that culture that exists within Microsoft. I don't think everybody at Microsoft feels that way, but the culture that's driven by some of their executive leadership believes that it's not your PC, it's their PC, and they can do what they want with it, and they'll do whatever they can get away with. It's constantly figuring out what they can do without users going into open revolt and discovering more and more everyday where that boundary is.
----

Actually reading these interviews shows there's a fair bit more thought than "salty" "conspiracy"

Sorry thats all fine and good...but this breaking steam thing is just indefensible. Its FUD clear and simple and has no basis in reality. And the worst part is that Sweeney has to know that as he knows a lot more about Windows and computers than probably anyone on this thread.

 

[Punkster_NY]

lawsuit in 3...2...1

 

[gamz]

He's saying that if online play policies can be completely reversed by consumer outrage, theres absolutely no way Microsoft will rip the living essential core out of its OS by removing Win32 support.

Gotcha.

Need my morning coffee.

 

[Sendero]

The problem is in the way Sweeney explained how hypothetically MS would want to target Steam. It's fully retarded:

-Any major change to win32 would impact tens of millions of applications, not just games.
-It would automatically destroy the viability of Windows as universal platform. It for all intend & purposes, would finish MS (at least how it exists now).
-To maliciously target non MS-approved games, would require a clear and precise strategy at the top level. If someone as vulgar as Balmer didn't fully attempt it, won't happen under Nadella.
-The strategy would had to either be openly announced, or being layered in secret. Either way, the world would found about it, and the market would react...badly. Nevermind internet as a whole. MS don't enjoy the rapport that Apple has. It would be nailed hard.
-Even if they went that route, it would never be done in 5 years. Again, Sweeney is being ridiculously hyperbolic.



Now, MS would love to eventually become a more closeted garden place. And it does have other means to get closer to that (move old DirectX support to emulation/virtualization, strengthen apps certification, improve UWP flexibility). And it will somehow try. But not in the way Sweeney is envisioning. And likely, never fully achieve it.

Because in reality, the somewhat open nature of Windows and decent back-compatibility, are its main strengths. Remove that, and MS will become even less relevant.

 

[Head.spawn]

How would you even gauge such a thing? Steam has been buggy since inception, compatibility with older games has always been a buggy ordeal.. at some point do we just equate all of that to being MSs fault?

 

[Angel_DvA]

I don't know why people think this is unreal, Apple is doing the same thing with Spotify but whatever...

 

[Jinkies]

I wish the community demanded such openness from Apple on iOS.

 

[SOR5]

I don't know why people think this is unreal, Apple is doing the same thing with Spotify but whatever...

Because the evidence is non-existent and this plan requires the complete annihilation of what makes your business successful

Apple being a bit shitty with the Spotify app is one thing

Tim is saying Microsoft wants to destroy Steam by shooting steam in the head and then blowing it's own brains out subsequently by removing Win32

It's like if there's an annoying fly buzzing around you, so you jump into a lake of nuclear acid to get rid of it. (Even though Steam being the metaphorical fly in this case, encourages PC growth)

 

[Angel_DvA]

Because the evidence is non-existent and this plan requires the complete annihilation of what makes your business successful

Apple being a bit shitty with the Spotify app is one thing

Tim is saying Microsoft wants to destroy Steam by shooting steam in the head and then blowing it's own brains out subsequently by removing Win32

It's like if there's an annoying fly buzzing around you, so you jump into a lake of nuclear acid to get rid of it

I agree about the fact that the dude has nothing to prove what he said but I'm just saying the possibility is here and won't be surprising, that's it.

 

[Ricky Ricardo]

I agree about the fact that the dude has nothing to prove what he said but I'm just saying the possibility is here and won't be surprising, that's it.

"Every refugee we let into the US/EU could be a terrorist. I'm just saying the possibility is here and won't be surprising, that's it."

Exact. Same. Political. Non-Argument.

Vigilance =/= Paranoia

 

[LordRaptor]

Tim is saying Microsoft wants to destroy Steam by shooting steam in the head and then blowing it's own brains out subsequently by removing Win32

The question then remains why Win32 applications (and Desktop mode in general) is referred to as "legacy" by Microsoft.
"Legacy software" has very clear connotations.

 

[Doomshine]

Because the evidence is non-existent and this plan requires the complete annihilation of what makes your business successful

Apple being a bit shitty with the Spotify app is one thing

Tim is saying Microsoft wants to destroy Steam by shooting steam in the head and then blowing it's own brains out subsequently by removing Win32

It's like if there's an annoying fly buzzing around you, so you jump into a lake of nuclear acid to get rid of it. (Even though Steam being the metaphorical fly in this case, encourages PC growth)

but that's not what he's saying. He says that they will slowly make Steam more inconvenient to use, not break it completely or "shoot it in the head".

 

[Trigg]

Good thing I have my windows 10 locked down and I will not update unless games require it,

 

[Yeezus]

The W10 rollout itself was pretty sneaky and not-nice if you ask me, I don't think M$ is above any of the things outlined in the OP.

 

[SPDIF]

What's so difficult to understand that things in the future are not satisfactorily "addressed"?

I was mainly getting at the fact that even though you know some of these changes are coming, you still act as if nothing actually happened at Build.

and words - especially the words of PR - are exceedingly cheap

Because no, it wasn’t just words. You saw live code demonstrations of this stuff working. It’s like saying, “Well I know the next COD is called Infinite Warfare, I’ve seen demonstrations of the gameplay, and I know the release date. But until I’ve got the game in my hands, I refuse to believe the game even exists.” Now that’s an extreme, rather stupid example that I just thought of off the top of my head, but it’s pretty much what you’re saying with this Build stuff.

because nothing has been implemented

In fact, it may even be worse, considering that yes, it has been implemented. For months now, if you wanted to, you could have downloaded the preview from MS and seen this stuff running for yourself. It’s not been implemented for the general public, but it’s been available to developers and anybody else that wants to try it for months now. Considering how interested (would that be the right word?) you are in UWP, I thought you would have done that by now.

 

[PMS341]

Cell phone companies do this all the time to force upgrades on hardware, so it sort of doesn't surprise me, though hard evidence is probably needed in this case.

 

[gamz]

Good thing I have my windows 10 locked down and I will not update unless games require it,

I would research those updates and make sure they aren't for security. Unless you don't care about security.

 

[superNESjoe]

No joke, this seriously seems like tinfoil hat conspiracy nonsense. I'd really need to see some serious evidence before having any sort of reaction to this.

 

[rokkerkory]

MS is a progressive company afterall

 

[Dinjoralo]

I don't doubt that Microsoft will try to fuck with Steam, but this just sounds absurd. I'm pretty sure if this started happening, they would draw the ire of just about everyone and face far more pressure to stop than they would get compliance.

 

[SOR5]

but that's not what he's saying. He says that they will slowly make Steam more inconvenient to use, not break it completely or "shoot it in the head".

But once again, where's the evidence?

Things that happened 20 years ago and not being surprised aren't valid evidence, if someone today was on trial for intent to shoplift and my only argument was "Well he shoplifted 20 years ago!", Explained ways he could shoplift and then I sat down and said no more, the court would belly laugh all the way.

Yeah sure you can say there's a boiling frog effect and it's all subtle mindgames, but that doesn't mean it's immune to scrutiny. Even under scrutinisation what real evidence do you have right now?

Not only does the theory lack credence, the entire plan is business seppuku and would be impossible to even commit, whether they do it slowly or in one swoop.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

Yeah this sounds a bit over blown. In this day and age it be very hard for MS to get away from something like this. I mean steam is a bit buggy already and doesn't really scale that well on my 2k monitor. Most of steams issues are valves alone. I haven't noticed a difference in how steam run from January till now. That's a big accusation that it's already happening and something the DOJ should be notified about.

Yeah they have a history of it with Netscape but we aren't in the 90's anymore. While Tim is an incredibly smart programmer, even smart programmers over shoot themselves with things like this.

 

[univbee]

The question then remains why Win32 applications (and Desktop mode in general) is referred to as "legacy" by Microsoft.
"Legacy software" has very clear connotations.

You can bet that 99% of the Fortune 500 companies and multinational organizations are going to make very very sure that Microsoft keeps Win32 support in, because all of those companies are in all likelihood running at least a few (more likely several) internal apps that make Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing look competently coded. This is software that is so specialized it effectively makes its company a monopoly in a specific industry, with guaranteed clientele no matter how shitty their software is and how many hoops they have to make their clients jump through in terms of disabling tons of security features in the OS and shit like that, because in these industries not having the software in question is simply not an option.

In all likelihood, big enough companies will have an SA subscription in order to run a specific locked-down version of Windows that they have to ensure doesn't change much. This means they are paying Microsoft a phenomenal amount of money (especially collectively) every year as part of a subscription, because, again, their business depends on it. Microsoft pulling Win32 support across the board all of a sudden, if their shareholders would even allow them to kill that golden goose (there is essentially 0% chance of this), would result in massive business implications to the point where I could flat-out see specific governments imposing that Microsoft keep in Win32 support or face huge fines and other sanctions. The governments might even force their hand and require older Win32 OSes be sold and supported, like what happened with Windows XP (you could still buy an XP machine from Dell until surprisingly recently, 2012 I think?) and Windows 7 (can still get a PC with Windows 7 from basically all the major vendors if you ask for it)

 

[rrs]

The question then remains why Win32 applications (and Desktop mode in general) is referred to as "legacy" by Microsoft.
"Legacy software" has very clear connotations.

Considering MS supported XP to last year, and still does I'd say MS would like to take care of the past. Also, consider plain users who still want to run old programs who will make 15 conspiracy Facebook posts that ms is taking away all your programs. It's not happening, win32 is staying although unupdated.

 

[00ich]

Valve has good documentation for moving to SteamOS. Now is as good a time as any.


http://store.steampowered.com/steamos

Or Windows 10 virtualized (with full GPU support) on Linux. That keeps you for gaming in MS world, but (unlike dual boot) doesn't make you use your browser etc. under windows for convenience's sake, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtV_pYIgxOA

Doesn't run super pretty for me yet, but that's more down to new hardware (skylake, z170 and 1060).

 

[uncledonnie]

This. If there's one company we can trust it's Google.

I can't even tell what's sarcasm anymore.

It baffles me that so many of the people agreeing with Sweeney are completely ignoring enterprise, which is the reason I cannot take these claims seriously. In the grand scheme of things gaming and even the Windows store are not very significant to the Microsoft that exists today.

 

[univbee]

Quick question for the users of this thread as it's relevant, anyone work for a company where you still require some old version of IE for an internal app? A company I worked for in mid-2011 just finished a migration to Windows 7 from Windows 2000, but a ton of their internal pages needed IE6 and wouldn't work on anything else, so they had to cut a fat cheque for VMware ThinApp (XP Mode was too slow and unreliable) to get IE6 on Windows 7 alongside IE8 (which I think was also required for some separate stuff at the time). I wouldn't be all that surprised if they still needed it for some things now.