I feel like it's fine until that last sentence. The joke had ended and she was giving advice at that point. I'm sure she has the best of intentions but it sounds like B to me.
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Tina Fey on Weekend Update on Protesting After Charlottesville
- Thread starter Diprosalic
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I feel like it's fine until that last sentence. The joke had ended and she was giving advice at that point. I'm sure she has the best of intentions but it sounds like B to me.
n00bsauce87
Member
Not all jokes are meant to invoke laughter. Especially those involving social commentary. It was not a goal to make the audience feel better about themselves at the end of the skit.
She literally says in a sober tone, 'Don't show up. I love you Charlottesville.' If you're saying that this is all a bit; you guys are the ones who don't understand how jokes work. That was not a joke.
Whatever is the case with this 'bit' - it missed it's mark considering half the people are viewing it incorrectly one way or the other. Maybe she should clarify what she meant and that will settle things.
Whatever is the case with this 'bit' - it missed it's mark considering half the people are viewing it incorrectly one way or the other. Maybe she should clarify what she meant and that will settle things.
how can you say the joke had ended when it was still ongoing? the whole thing was a bit, it didn't end until it ended
yeah it's almost like that plays into the bit and the people that she's criticizing with the bit
Finale Fireworker
Member
I think it's more what Dre said:
I believe that even people who understood the joke were motivated to give a serious response because it's a joke about something they are actually fighting with others about on a daily basis. Tensions are high and people are sensitive and some people just aren't in a position to laugh about "the Nazi problem" right now.
This is normally remedied by sensitive people not watching late night shows where they joke about this kind of stuff, but since this got thrust to the forefront of their morning information consumption, people who normally stay away from the content are prompted to give a response.
I know my first response was to respond seriously, which I did. But 20 minutes later my mood had softened considerably and it didn't bother me anymore and I wished I hadn't said anything at all. It originally gave me whiplash to see something like this between the tweets, headlines, and thread titles that otherwise pump me full of dread and anxiety.
One of the basic and arguably evolutionary qualifications for humor is a sense of safety. If a joke feels threatening, it usually isn't funny. The problem that many people are having with this joke is a contextual one rather than one of content.
n00bsauce87
Member
I already took this point to account with the above.
30 Rock: Tracy and Thomas Jefferson on Maury
We found that light skin girl Tina was referring to
I really just don't understand you or what you're getting at. Are you saying she's criticizing the people who love charlottesville? Like, I just don't get it I guess. How is that supposed to be funny or are we supposed to laugh at people here? If that's the joke, it's even worse than just saying stay home and eat cake. :/
I loved the whole 30 min weekend update special and esp her part.
But let's say even if she is somehow saying don't show up to counter-protest Nazis to avoid violence, this isn't automatically a wrong option or akin to turning your back minorities affected. I see both sides as legit options to a protest.
But let's say even if she is somehow saying don't show up to counter-protest Nazis to avoid violence, this isn't automatically a wrong option or akin to turning your back minorities affected. I see both sides as legit options to a protest.
Even if it's supposed to be A, it looking so much like it's B makes this a really bad skit.
Caught this in my twitter feed. It's a thread that does a way better job expounding upon why this sketch is problematic and tone def than I ever could: https://twitter.com/AndrayDomise/status/898403926415769601
Finale Fireworker
Member
I get what you're saying here, but we have a semantic disagreement over what a "joke" is. You're right about humor being used in social commentary and the importance of doing so, but I think jokes that aren't meant to be laughed at are more examples of irony than humor. Irony is an equally effective form of social commentary and can be funny, but it is not an innately funny literary device.
I think Tina Fey was going for laughs, which she got, and I think it was intended as a joke. What made a bunch of people in this thread and the internet at large so defensive is that they're not in the mood to joke about something like this.
I think it would be different for most people were they willingly watching the episode this is from and had signed on for some comedic release. Then people are opening themselves up to some jokes, even about things they're stressed out about. The reaction this joke is getting when viewed independently is due to people who did not lower their guard to accept a political joke like this and, quite conversely, have their guard up hard.
This isn't unique to Tina Fey or this subject or anything either. People are struggling to relax because they feel fully charged up to play staunch defense 100% of the time. When they let themselves be vulnerable and try to cool off, then something like this might be funny. But when you're red-eyed on Twitter because everything makes you sick all the time, so do jokes from a show you didn't watch last night. You know what I mean?
If she apologizes(she will because she's a great person) and say that it is what she meant but that she is sorry, would you take her apology or would you argue that she's just saying what people want to hear and it was all just a joke.
I'm totally fine with if it was all just a joke and I know she has the best intentions either way.
The answer to your question is yes. I know you think that is basically what she is really saying and I really hope it is that. The problem is that people will take that advice even if it was sarcasm.
you're removing aspects of the bit and trying to find a setup -> punchline style laugh out of context which is causing you trouble
I'm saying the whole thing was a bit and the parts at the beginning are playing into that. if I'm reading the bit correctly she's criticizing people who think ignoring all the hate out there is a good idea. so to set up the bit she is essentially playing a character that believes those things. then as the bit progresses it gets more and more absurd highlighting the absurdity of holding such a belief.
but she's not offering those things as solutions....she's clowning the fuck out of people would offer those things as solutions
I'm not sure what you're asking, can you rephrase. sorry, it's early
Damn that was fire
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
He's missing the point. She's not offering only 2 solutions. There's an elephant in the room with her joke that so many are failing to see--counter protest.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Comedy is all about timing, and I think it's a bad time to be joking about this. Like, it's way too soon for some comedic hot takes (GAFs fave word) on Nazis being legitimized and emboldened in this country. It's a real fucking fear for a lot of us and I just don't wanna laugh about it.
Human Trashcan
Banned
I hate nothing so much as the "it's just a joke, relax" defense. Just because something is intended to be humorous doesn't mean it has no message, or intent, behind it. Jokes say things. Jokes are political. If your only defense of a bad joke is "but it's a joke" you need to think deeper.
old manatee
Banned
RumbleHumble
Banned
This is the correct take. Nazi's can't get fought if no one shows up to fight em'.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
SNL is beyond useless.
People said "At least Trump will be good for comedy" but it's really not.
People said "At least Trump will be good for comedy" but it's really not.
Having a good underlying idea/sentiment doesn't make the joke actually funny or less harmful.
capitalCORN
Member
re: "it's just satire bro"
Elaborate with your constructive criticism and deconstruct the Fey skit for me please.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Some people heal through humor. Some people deal with tragedy through humor.
Some don't. Some do. One way is not valid for all. Tragedy and comedy have been intertwined at least as long as there has been written thought.
Pinko Marx
Banned
Well it's not like SNL doesn't sometimes drop the comedy to bring some real.
Or maybe there is a way to make light of the event, but this bit just didn't play for me at all.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Ignoring them is a fucking stupid idea. They try to shame the left and use "tolerance" as a way of diluting the left's anger. No more.
Pinko Marx
Banned
You know the old adage tragedy + time = comedy. I feel that applies here very well in that there hasn't been enough of that there time factor. We're still in the very midst of this thing and it feels like it's only getting worse. I'm just not down for joking around about it unless you got some real poignant points to make, which wasn't the case here.
n00bsauce87
Member
All fair points and in respect to the person you quoted earlier, from reading this, I understand what they meant more. Eh, I feel like a jerk now for making it too simplistic in his case. Things can be too serious for jokes/irony may not be able to penetrate and I can respect that because I can't say that their reaction to this is wrong or misguided based on how deep they took the situation at Charlottesville(sp?).
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Tina Fey is ridiculing people who do nothing in this skit. It is purely satire. She is not being literal when she tells people to stay home. She is playing a character.
capitalCORN
Member
Tina Fey is ridiculing people who do nothing in this skit. It is purely satire. She is not being literal when she tells people to stay home. She is playing a character.
No, You see, the cake serves no purpose...
Diprosalic
Banned
but the sketch does the exact opposite. it makes fun of people of for doing nothing and just ignoring it. i thought it was obvious how silly it looked how she's stuffing cake into her face. she literally eats cake to make her problems go away. it's almost too on the nose.
"instead of doing something just stuff cake into your face, this will make problems go away"
ignoring them is a stupid fucking idea
it's as stupid as yelling into a cake with the american flag on it while stuffing your face with it and pretending you're befitting anyone
Tina Fey is ridiculing people who do nothing in this skit. It is purely satire. She is not being literal when she tells people to stay home. She is playing a character.
yeah it's pretty obvious what her intent and message is
^ this
Audioboxer
Member
It's a somewhat fascinating social experiment unfolding in front of us where large groups of people utterly fail to get political/social satire in the form of humour. It's not strictly about liking or approving of it, but people totally failing to get it. My take is a lot of it is feigning ignorance just to have another target to go after in moments of angst/frustration/being scared or wanting to let go of inner anger. People do get that many remarks, ESPECIALLY when they come from comedians are dissent, satire, ridicule or humour, but humour is often low-hanging fruit to go on a tirade from due to feeling offended/unhappy/dissatisfied someone isn't super serious 24/7. You setup your argument of I cannot believe humour is being used in a difficult time, so, therefore, the mouthpiece of said humour needs to feel the social ire of me and the internet.
A quote I came across recently I like
Often humour, satire and ridicule are what many turn to, to try and get through difficult times, and also often what is used to throw contempt and shade at people/Governments. A lot of minds and people would crumble under despair if they couldn't turn to humour in dark times as a means to either escape reality fleetingly or as is often the case for a way of expressing dissent/dissatisfaction through contempt and ridicule.
There's a lot of heavy handed remarks going around, many which have been viewable on GAF, saying that violence and/or killing is the only way forward. The thing is, even if YOU truly believe that, criticising pacifists or those wanting to use other ways to fight back/ridicule/dissent is quickly turning into shaming people for not wanting to get violent. Like it or not there are many people who DO care about the greater social and political issues but also want to take care of themselves and their family (being in a hospital, jail or unemployed doesn't help there).
Tina Fey's overall "punchline" seems to be ridiculing those that stay at home and do very little, but let it be said the two dials aren't "doing nothing" and "bashing skulls in". Voting, writing letters, engaging in debate and yes, attending protests are all ways to be involved that aren't getting violent. If you want change you need to work towards change, and that most definitely starts with voting, and getting people not voting out to vote. Then from there, you can routinely be involved in debate, argument and protest.
A quote I came across recently I like
Often humour, satire and ridicule are what many turn to, to try and get through difficult times, and also often what is used to throw contempt and shade at people/Governments. A lot of minds and people would crumble under despair if they couldn't turn to humour in dark times as a means to either escape reality fleetingly or as is often the case for a way of expressing dissent/dissatisfaction through contempt and ridicule.
There's a lot of heavy handed remarks going around, many which have been viewable on GAF, saying that violence and/or killing is the only way forward. The thing is, even if YOU truly believe that, criticising pacifists or those wanting to use other ways to fight back/ridicule/dissent is quickly turning into shaming people for not wanting to get violent. Like it or not there are many people who DO care about the greater social and political issues but also want to take care of themselves and their family (being in a hospital, jail or unemployed doesn't help there).
Tina Fey's overall "punchline" seems to be ridiculing those that stay at home and do very little, but let it be said the two dials aren't "doing nothing" and "bashing skulls in". Voting, writing letters, engaging in debate and yes, attending protests are all ways to be involved that aren't getting violent. If you want change you need to work towards change, and that most definitely starts with voting, and getting people not voting out to vote. Then from there, you can routinely be involved in debate, argument and protest.
No problem man, same here honestly. I'm just asking if she admits that she was actually advocating that people stay home in an apology. Would you accept that or would you think she was trying to make people happy afterward?
I still think her intentions were pure either way.
Honestly, with everything going on, I don't really want to argue about this. I am completely willing to see it as part of the joke. I just don't want to see people take what she said, (satire or not) like the people here:
VistraNorrez
Member
That fact that it hit home means it worked. Satire should make people feel bad or angry. Not all humor induces gutbusting laughter.
Pinko Marx
Banned
You think? Should people not be worked up considering recent events? Why would tensions not be high right now?
Once again, bad timing for this bit.
Jesus. "Take out the cake and jokes, Tina is offering two solutions..."
She's not offering any solutions. ITS A JOKE.
Take out the joke and she called Colin Jost a Nazi. Maybe we should investigate what kind of Nazi propaganda Jost is pushing on the SNL cast?
17 Seconds
Banned
haha of course people are mad about this
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
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