Unhandled Exception
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So long as you can disable this server side it's not a big deal.
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Titanfall on PC will have controller aim assist
- Thread starter Ogimachi
- Start date
CountAntonius
Member
No. Some people enjoy playing on a controller and people always feel the need to shit on them for having a preference. One guy aid he can do good on a controller but I haven't seen anyone say the Controller is better for fps than the mouse and KB.
Who else is doing this as of late, you need examples not just a talking point? Not saying people can't use controllers for fps games. I'm saying in the pc environment it hasn't worked out so far and I've yet to see an implementation get it right. Argue all you want history and reality are on my side so far. I want more pad players but I'm done compromising shooters so that people who don't want to admit the reality of what pads to do shooters can come in to an environment they are not the majority and start dictating things. Pad players have two next gen consoles and the pc in one place I'd like things to be a little more normal and without crap that lets fps types baby themselves for free kills.
Not once have I ever said they are even similar so don't know why you're trying this angle. I brung up MS cause they know the issue and so do other fps devs but hey go ahead another gaffer knows better than history or the industry. This is not cross play between consoles it's cross play between consoles vs pc, google it and save yourself trouble dreamcast and xbl are good start.
Never said you couldn't do such a thing with a tv. However there is nothing stop most of you whining about htpc situation and making something more practical to have a big screen and KB&M easy. Why should I decide where and how you sit, you should accept that due that requirement you have you won't be able to use the setup in question so easily easily. I never said anything about comfy couch read the post. You choose comfy couch you live with some of the things it causes you to lose in the pc spectrum.
absolutely no one has said that, in fact, practically everyone says that controllers are worse for FPS
The Nature Roy
Member
I can understand why a lot of people don't like this, or the addition of the A.I. grunts for that matter -- but as a couch PC/casual player w/relatively little multiplayer experience or time to play, these additions greatly increase the likelihood that I'll actually buy the game.
If there was a single-player campaign or even an offline mode of some sort, Titanfall would be a slamdunk purchase. Lacking that, I would probably stay away... if not for these casual-player friendly concessions.
If there was a single-player campaign or even an offline mode of some sort, Titanfall would be a slamdunk purchase. Lacking that, I would probably stay away... if not for these casual-player friendly concessions.
CountAntonius
Member
Get what right? People playing shooters on a controller on PC? Because valve has that option for pretty much every game or are you talking about auto aim on PC? Because it is probably inevitable that more games will offer this and if you watched the video I posted before about how this works in games like CoD's you can see it's not really giving the control users any advantage but trying to bring things a lil closer to the middle(which is still doesn't do). What compromise is being made here exactly?
It's not really about "competitively viable" as in "played in tournaments"; there are plenty of games that I would not take seriously enough to play in a tournament but that I can at least take seriously on an ad hoc basis and enjoy (Mount and Blade, for example). Something like this goes a long way towards preventing even that from being possible.
I wasn't making a slippery slope argument. I was saying that making an allowance for controller players to make them more competitive is a design decision that reflects the opinion that the playing field should be made level when it isn't.
But as long as I'm being smug...
A slippery slope argument says that if thing A is allowed to happen, then there is nothing to prevent B (and C and so on) from happening.
A valid slippery slope argument says that this is true due to the logic or reason that has allowed A to happen in the first place.
A fallacious slippery slope argument says that this is true based on either incomplete logic or no logic at all. Often fallacious slippery slope arguments rely on superficial connections between A and B, as in "if we allow gay people to marry, we must allow children to marry!".
Therefore, pointing out that people's arguments are slippery slopes is kind of silly by itself as it is certainly possible for a slippery slope argument to be valid.
Insanity of the decision aside, how does this make sense from a numbers perspective? What percentage of shooter players on PC play with a controller? I'm going to safely assume that it's a relatively small number, and that this concession is needlessly pissing off the PC shooter crowd for the sake of a few controller users.
The guns already have very little to no recoil. Now you want to add aim assist on top of that? I thought this game wanted to be quick to learn and hard to master?
The guns already have very little to no recoil. Now you want to add aim assist on top of that? I thought this game wanted to be quick to learn and hard to master?
Practically every FPS PC game launches with some type of controller support. TF2 even patched in controller support way before they had all that Steam Big Picture stuff too. People have been using controls for PC games for a while.
Also, Pads can affect shooters, but why does this matter in the case of Titanfall, a game already releasing for Xbox 360 and Xbox One. Do you want every FPS to cater to you?
Go look up Shadowrun dude. that game literally has cross-play between XBL and PC. And nowehre in my post did I ever mention cross play between 2 consoles, only consoles and PCs, but you can just make up something if that's what floats your boat
this is literally asinine. You know there's a large, growing contingent of pc players that have a HTPC of some sort. I would gather that none of those people have that huge TV on a desk. Because unfortunately, that would make absolutely no sense. I much like practically every other person in this ever growing contingency of gamers have this set up in front of our couch/recliner because that makes logical sense.
Now, we could all lug our TV's to our desks, which may or may not fit the TV, and use the TV like a monitor, but there's a much simpler option, and it's what the Titanfall devs are doing.
and the best part is that this literally does not affect you, the Titanfall M+KB player in any way!
Totally borked my point so I will correct and split up what I intended.
The problem isn't prevention, get this out of your head since we both know hacks will hacks. This makes it easier for hackers to have a place to start and considering it's source scripts will totally learn to abuse this. There can be no debate about what scripts in source do considering we have youtube videos of various hacks The point is it makes it easier for hacks to do such a thing.
Another main point that some on your side seem to be glossing over is the common excuse from hackers will use, I have a pad plugged in. Plenty of pc gamers have seen this excuse and in the end it creates a hostile environment, which it already somewhat can be in fps games, just lets people accuse more as well get an easier cover. Yes hacks will hack and admins will kick but in situations they aren't around it will just force people to choose side and be paranoid.
Last point as mentioned MS testing out why you don't mix these groups.
Sorry for the confusion.
It's such a small amount of gamers that do this that Valve created an entire OS practically for those people!
And this pisses of so many players, because making controllers a little bit better is the most infuriating thing i can imagine. I betcha MLB players are pissed that little league players use metal bats
rudieboy77
Member
I built a tabletop that sits on the rests of my arm chair. I kick my feet up and use my setup on the TV, but I had planed on doing it like this for a while. Works for me and its very comfortable.
CountAntonius
Member
I think auto aim is more about making the game playable for people on controllers rather than making them competitive in an online environment vs KB/M players. The amount of auto aim in console games won't do that at all.
Here is a guy playing with a mouse and KB on Halo 4 using the Xim Edge adapter. You can't turn off auto aim in halo 4 as far as I know and it still seems very advantageous from the KB and Mouse perspective.
kb/m Halo 4
Here is a guy playing with a mouse and KB on Halo 4 using the Xim Edge adapter. You can't turn off auto aim in halo 4 as far as I know and it still seems very advantageous from the KB and Mouse perspective.
kb/m Halo 4
The difference between this and what Microsoft was doing is that the default control method for consoles is a gamepad. Throwing in a KB/M user into that environment would disrupt it greatly and leave the average player at a huge disadvantage. Adding the auto aim from consoles to a PC game won't have the same effect in any way to PC users. We will still have an insane advantage over them regardless.
MS tested that they didn't want crossplay because controller players were worse? But if the auto-aim makes it easier, then they'll be able to compete with M+KB...
They'll be able to 'compete' by having the computer do work for them. Something that is associated with hacking on the PC platform. Do you see how this is as much a philosophical question as it is a practical one?
Why don't we make Titanfall cross-platform while we're at it.
Did you miss my post where I talked about using my pad in cs at times with another user? This is not the problem so get it to your thick skull. Some of us do not want aim assists, pad players can join just not with assists. The pad isn't and will never be the problem it's the aim assist and what they do to communities this mechanic has shown up in.
Go look at my post were we talked about shadowrun how keep missing things in my posts is beyond me when some of it is clear as day. Hell shadowrun and crysis 2 are why I don't like this mechanic.
Tv's can be huge but they are also light and check certain gaf threads people do setups with their desks. So either you're ignorant or making a troll point. The whole market of using tv's to pc is big and I welcome it what I don't welcome is devs poorly implementing such a mechanic and expecting some of us not to be a little annoyed at the inevitable result.
Actually it does effect me and has effected plenty of others I mentioned the social aspect of what it does to servers. You can google that and see I'm not making it up.
With an advantage that most pc fps players don't want face someone with such a mechanic. Are you against us filtering you out such players? Is there the ability to turn it off I use pads to and sorry I hate assist. Overall this is just one big grab at a certain crowd that won't make up the bulk of the audience on the pc platform. Personally I don't care at a certain point but if I get mixed and have to deal with this just like others I'm walking to another title rather than dealing with this.
A) Can any chair/couch do this
B) You had to create a seperate attachment to your chair, just to do this. i don't think it's practical for many people to do this, especially if we don't want to damage our couch or chair
I understand that there are ways to do this, but everything i have personally tried has been awful compared to just using a controller. And once again, we get to the point about practicality. maybe they'll invent what you described, and there'll be something like that, but it doesn't exist in a mainstream way and thus it's not a very practical solution. Maybe practical and easy for you, but not practical and easy for most gamers
CountAntonius
Member
How much work is the controller doing for them exactly? You are really comparing this to aimbotting on PC?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSdi31Qpx2E&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Did you know that when you move your mouse it's "letting the computer do work for you"
And even if it is associated with hacking, what does this have anything to do with something built into the game. Is it suddenly hacking if i use something in the game.
I would personally like Titanfall to be cross platform, but MS don't do shit like that anymore
hell, you can't even do crossplay between 360 and Xbox One,
CountAntonius
Member
and by the way I am more of a fan of valve's no auto aim stance and turned it off in games where I could on console but I think people are seriously overstating it's effect.
My mouse is doing only what I tell it to. Auto Aim does things for me that I can't as a player. There's a difference.
If something is built into the game as a shortcut that fundamentally cheapens the core game mechanic for the sake of pleasing a small percentage of players, it shouldn't be there in the first place. Why do no other games have this? Because it's heretical to even suggest it. No one is that stupid/audacious. I guess Respawn is.
I could understand if the guns had recoil and seemingly were hard to use. They aren't. Not even slightly.
There is no way this doesn't get emulated, modded, or otherwise hacked so that you can have KB+M+Aim assist. It's going to be a mess.
Seriously, that would be an unmitigated disaster. Imagine the platforms wars, only on an actual battlefield and with one side having massive advantages in resolution, framerate and input accuracy.
I think things would get pretty unfriendly pretty quickly.
CountAntonius
Member
Yes, it destroyed the Duke 3d community and the Doom community.
The only community it seemed to "wreck" was Crysis 2, which was horribly implemented. If the game actually has testing done in any meaningful way this issue will not happen
Shadowrun is fairly loved by many, it's failing were similar to other FPS's of the time in the fact that they weren't COD.
Crysis 2 example is silly. It was not the fault of the aim assist, but the fault of the horrendous programming done by the company. I doubt the controller aim assist would've "destroyed" the community if they had implemented it in a non stupid wat
I hate assist too, but there's no need to have your panties in a bunch over it. And exactly what are you going to be dealing with. You haven't even played the friggin game yet, you have 0 idea on how they are going to implement it. Maybe they do fuck it up like Crysis 2, but maybe it's well implemented and is the standard for such things in the future.
Also, M+KB players fair much better then Controller players even with aim assist. So this "advantage" that you speak about is literally like a MLB player complaining that a little league player uses a metal bat.
Look at it from a distance and ask yourself if it is really that important.
Also, your point about TV's as monitors doesn't make sense if you have other members in your household, have a heavy TV, have your tv in awkward place, and other such factors. Sure, people make it work, but once again we get into the practicality argument, where' it's not very practical.
PC players have a heart attack whenever they hear about controller in FPS, as if their golden platform is going to die. Ive never seen a persecution complex this high before.
TakeItSlowDude
Member
If a minor allowance is made it reduces the competitiveness of the game, reducing the competitiveness leads to leveling the playing field, leveling the playing field means the game requires a trivial amount to no skill to play. The argument that (aim assist on controller)->(trivial game) is not substantiated through this chain. Aiming is one of many elements in FPS where competitiveness comes into play and the effect of aim assist on a controller is questionable in magnitude so your conclusion is overstated. I do not think the game is going have a Quake or even a CS skill ceiling, just found your conclusion (or what I inferred as your conclusion) hyperbolic.
let's completely ignore that people love to use aim bots
but of course, that never happens in PC FPS!
also, why is it even heretical to implement this. Am I fucking saying something against the god emperor of mankind or some shit. it's heretical because you have a persectuion complex that you think PC gaming is slowly dying and all these new games are terrible abominations that only Quake 1 can save you from.
Buddy, nobody thinks that and you just went straight from ludicrous to plaid.
Those people tend to get banned. Great argument for aim assist.
I don't think there's anything radical about wanting to keep input a 1:1 situation on the PC. Aim assist in any form compromises that.
Once again, how does this affect you in anyway
according to most people, M+KB is still better then controller with aim assist. So what's the issue. If hackers find a way to make it so that they have aim assist on M+KB, well, those are probably the same people that use aim-bots.
It obviously depends on the level of aim assist, but based off the alpha impressions there doesn't seem to be a huge amount.
Hehe, looking over my post again, it looks like I screwed my point up too!
When I said 'prevent', I didn't really mean in the sense of something like PunkBuster (that still exist? I've been gone a while lol) attempting to prevent the use of hacks. What I meant was that something like Crysis 2 confusing someone playing with a joypad, with someone simply playing with a joypad connected, is a really silly situation to allow to happen. A mouse uses relative displacement whilst a stick provide absolute displacements at each frame. The data for this would be so easily discernable that a game should not be able to fail at deducing whether or not to assist with aim. Even an insanely simple check such as ensuring the displacement doesn't exceed the maximum range of the joypad should rule this out.
This isn't even very important though, because of what console aim assistance generally means. Aim cheats on PC generally come in two varieties, lock on, and auto shot. Lock on would be like Z-targeting in something like Zelda or Metroid Prime, and auto shot would be when you gun fires automatically when placed over a target. What Titanfall is likely to offer would be neither of these. You'd get a dynamic sensitivity, that slows down as you approach your target, as seen here:
I don't know what Crysis 2 or Shadowrun were doing, but this sort of implementation would both:
a) Not be very helpful at all to someone using a mouse.
b) Couldn't possibly be confused for the two forms of aiming cheats mentioned above.
I do somewhat understand your point about paranoia of people cheating however, seeing as how many people in this thread seem to assume that this sort of aim assistance would actually be desirable for a mouse user.
Lastly, I am well aware of what can happen when you mix console players and PC players. I originally started Quake 3 on the Dreamcast using a joypad, against PC players running the game at more than four times the FPS, with higher FOV, mouse aiming, and binds. It was a complete massacre lol. I don't think giving joypad players some small sensitivity adjustments would have harmed the game in any way at all. Now if that aim assistance is more like Perfect Dark where the character automatically shoots pretty much anything they can see... then yea, it'd be a problem.
^^^^
Great post
Shadowrun practically had Halo aim assist, but even then the best players still were on par with the best M+KB player (from what i've heard)
Crysis 2 has been one example of very bad developers not thinking things through.
Thats why Valve invented a new controller
That's why we still only use 1 stick in FPS games, just like the Goldeneye games
Nintenchris_one
Neo Member
Does this need to be posted at all, like seriously, do you derive sexual pleasure from trying to create some type of console war drama shit like this?
kutthoat5150
Member
good god people cut your damn nails, mine is still perfect from day one
It's a trade off between comfort and usability. I don't know what world you come from, but in our world some people do care about comfort.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
I would say that last part is a huge overstatement. It doesn't completely prevent it from being possible. Its pretty cynical to say that nobody could ever solve this perceived "unfairness." I think its totally the next logical progression in the PC's trajectory to become the one true super console. The consolized PC is the hottest thing in gaming right now, and Titanfall is among the first of this new generation of games. Support for numerous input devices is not going away. Just wait until all the occulus people get some sort of advantage over people with just a monitor.
Playing an FPS on a joypad without any auto aim is just not a great experience for 99% of people.
depends on the game really, but if you're going up against PC players, then yes, it is preferable
Normally this wouldn't be an issue. However these aren't console games what you mention applies to another platform that basically exist because pad players need such assists. This is a pc topic and certain norms are expected in pc based version of a title. Despite how silly it is you have one of the most hacked engines and fps title coming from a publisher who has already borked another big FPS. They didn't manage hacks in BF4 and source is far more well known it won't take long before it happens there is no if in my book.
Betas and launch period are integral to an fps game especially with youtube and the like these days. A few comments is enough to make this game sink before it can ever take off. If this is badly implemented which source has plenty of exploitable holes even today the hacking types will sour things at the most important time. Also hacks are vastly improved from what you mentioned this isn't the last decade and you can do a lot with them. Don't believe me find a copy of cs source or go and go find many of the easily downloadable hacks that you let configure things so that you cannot be detected too easily. With toggling on and off it's very hard to spot certain hacks who know how to game a lot of legitimate players.
Another gaffer said it best it's not skill to face someone with assists and a lot of instances this isn't tolerated be it games or not. Yet in this case devs feel it necessary to mix people. Fine let those who want to mix do so let the purist have their titles and their own servers. Not saying it can be in the game but if it has no options to turn it off or to filter out people the writing is the on wall there is nothing else to what I'm saying.
Lastly a gaffer reminded me of XIM which basically deals with the problem you mentioned of translating something in a stick to a mouse it can be done and plenty of vids exist to show so. Things exist on the pc in the right circles that do the same without the hardware, especially for the source engine. What we are mentioning will happen.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
IIRC, Shadowrun actually handicapped the mouse controls to get that parity.
This is kinda the whole point here though isn't it? Joypad players need assists in order to be able to play this game in a way that resembles the developer vision. This isn't unique to consoles, someone playing on PC with a 360 pad will be just as hamstrung attempting to use the available movements options whilst aiming, as someone on a 360 would be.
I don't think Respawn are going to be creating an aim-assistance script that runs on top of the base game, but only if you're using a joypad. That would make no sense. It would be part of the game's core logic, essentially transplanting the code from the console versions. This is more like Forza having different control settings when you playing with a 900 degree wheel. It wouldn't make the creation of a bot easier than it would be otherwise. Does the inclusion of a lock-on pistol open the game up to more hacks? Because that's essentially the logic you're using here.
I know that bots would be more advanced today than back in my Q3 days (they could be toggled back then too however). What I'm saying is, that when it comes to aiming cheats, their are two main varieties that aid the player. Dynamic aim sensitivity (such as what CoD uses, and presumably Titanfall) is not one of them, because it is completely useless to a mouse user. All this would do is fuck with your muscle memory, and make flick-shots and the like far more difficult. I know their WILL be hacks (that's a given), but I don't see how the joypad aim-assist would contribute to that. You're not going to want its functionality in your aimbot.
Finally, yes XIM will give you an advantage over a joypad user. But this is only valid because all your opponents are joypad users. Do you think someone playing using a XIM to emulate a joypad would beat someone playing the same game just with actual native mouselook (assuming equal skill)? They would be at an insane disadvantage, so playing the PC Titanfall in this way would be stupid tbh.
I can definitely see how this would cause outrage then. I would be furious too if I was being artificially crippled by using a mouse.