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TLOU PRO Patch 1.08 - Supersampling removed from all modes [Up: New DF video]

B

black070

Member
Just watched the video, so the run down is:

On 4K sets
-1800p at 60 that matches or exceeds the base PS4's framerate count now, low quality shadows
-Native 4K at locked 30fps, high quality shadows

On 1080p sets
-1080p at locked 60fps, high quality shadows
-1080p at locked 30fps, high quality shadows

1080p at locked 60fps doesn't sound bad at all, but they really should allow supersampling at 30fps.
 
M

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
Cataferal said:
Business as usual on 4K displays. Except, now a much smootherframe-rate framerate on the 1800/60 mode. All gain there =)
Click to expand...

Good to hear. I started on native 4K but think 1800p/60fps is the better all-round presentation - I'm finding the HDR a little disappointing though.
 
Bl@de

Bl@de

Member
dark10x said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn8H0vOfIL0

There is Tom's video. Now you can stop blaming DF for this issue.

Naughty Dog COMPLETELY fixed the frame-rate when running at 1800p (the 4K mode). It's buttery smooth and better than it has ever been.

They didn't remove super-sampling to improve performance. That is the take-away here. They actually went in and solved the real problem.

Which completely changes this issue - why on earth would they remove super-sampling if they solved the performance problems then? THAT is what does not make any sense. IT's either a bug or...I dunno, I can't explain it. It is wrong of them to do that. They definitely dropped the ball here.

I still think Sony needs to implement this feature at an OS level and let users decide for all games.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I want to keep my Pro if they start to remove supersampling from games and only give better image quality to 4K users. I don't plan to buy another display and wanted better image quality for exclusives. Great job Naughty Dog
not!
 
manzo

manzo

Member
Ok, now this is alarming.

I'm ready to wear a tinfoil hat and say that Sony policies have changed.
 
M

Markitron

Is currently staging a hunger strike outside Gearbox HQ while trying to hate them to death
kriskrosbbk said:
Can anyone summarize what is the issue with 1080p displays.What was before and after the patch?
Click to expand...

AFAIK before the patch it had an target 60 FPS framerate and was downsampling from 1800p. After the patch it's a locked 60 fps framerate with no downsampling.

So the patch has given the framerate a slight boost, but with a not-insignificant hit to the image quality (I think).
 
S

Solid Shammy

Banned
dark10x said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn8H0vOfIL0

There is Tom's video. Now you can stop blaming DF for this issue.

Naughty Dog COMPLETELY fixed the frame-rate when running at 1800p (the 4K mode). It's buttery smooth and better than it has ever been.

They didn't remove super-sampling to improve performance. That is the take-away here. They actually went in and solved the real problem.

Which completely changes this issue - why on earth would they remove super-sampling if they solved the performance problems then? THAT is what does not make any sense. IT's either a bug or...I dunno, I can't explain it. It is wrong of them to do that. They definitely dropped the ball here.

I still think Sony needs to implement this feature at an OS level and let users decide for all games.
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing up the issue with the high quality shadows, I've been hoping ND would've fixed them ages ago. I'd love to play this game at a locked 30 with 4K and proper high quality shadows. At the very least ND has to enable supersampling at 30fps for 1080p users, that has to be an unintended bug. But I'd love it if they could fix the damn high quality shadows for everyone as well.
 
B

bonchooski

Member
Bl@de said:
I'm not sure if I want to keep my Pro if they start to remove supersampling from games and only give better image quality to 4K users. I don't plan to buy another display and wanted better image quality for exclusives. Great job Naughty Dog
not!
Click to expand...

exactly, I'm not getting a 4k TV for a while and traded in my og ps4 for the supersampling benefits. if I knew this shit was gonna happen I would have just kept my original ps4. I'm holding off on finishing TLOU until they fix this. I started Rise Of The Tomb Raider instead and am glad they gave us options on what we wanted to enhance. A 3rd party game giving more options than a 1st party game....
 
S

Solid Shammy

Banned
bonchooski said:
exactly, I'm not getting a 4k TV for a while and traded in my og ps4 for the supersampling benefits. if I knew this shit was gonna happen I would have just kept my original ps4. I'm holding off on finishing TLOU until they fix this. I started Rise Of The Tomb Raider instead and am glad they gave us options on what we wanted to enhance. A 3rd party game giving more options than a 1st party game....
Click to expand...

Rise of the Tomb Raider really did set the perfect example for how every developer should support the Pro. Three simple options, best performance, best image quality, or 1080p with all the graphical settings pushed to max. It's your choice what you want.
 
J

Jacob4815

Member
dark10x said:
Which completely changes this issue - why on earth would they remove super-sampling if they solved the performance problems then? THAT is what does not make any sense. IT's either a bug or...I dunno, I can't explain it. It is wrong of them to do that. They definitely dropped the ball here.

I still think Sony needs to implement this feature at an OS level and let users decide for all games.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the video! I'm updating the first post. You give light to the situation!
It's not a bug because they declared the removal of supersampling in an official statement and in an edited blog article.

So this is a big, serious business now.
 
M

matrix-cat

Member
This is just baffling at this point. Seeing that they actually did the hard work optimising the game to run at a better framerate in the 1800p supersampling makes it all the more confounding why they'd cut supersampling entirely for 1080p users.

I mean, the 'runs worse than the standard PS4' issue is done. They fixed it, that's fantastic; the game now both renders at a much higher resolution than the OG PS4 and runs either equally or better in every mode. Except now they've just cut out supersampling for anyone with a 1080p TV, and seemingly on purpose? I don't get it.
 
B

black070

Member
matrix-cat said:
This is just baffling at this point. Seeing that they actually did the hard work optimising the game to run at a better framerate in the 1800p supersampling makes it all the more confounding why they'd cut supersampling entirely for 1080p users.

I mean, the 'runs worse than the standard PS4' issue is done. They fixed it, that's fantastic; the game now both renders at a much higher resolution than the OG PS4 and runs either equally or better in every mode. Except now they've just cut out supersampling for anyone with a 1080p TV, and seemingly on purpose? I don't get it.
Click to expand...

It is a locked 60 at 1080p with high quality shadows, so it's not without benefit. The 30fps option is more baffling really considering there's no benefit at all to it.
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Difficult to say if system level is the solution. Right now it seems the best instead of forcing users into downsampling or not having it at all but if its system level then you'll have to keep going into the options.

I think a system level tick box for each game installed within the options would be best, set it and forget it. No need to switch on and off on a per game basis. I know it might look messy and not console like but this is a Pro box aimed for those who want these type of things. Many people have bought this to downsample.
 
N

NewDust

Member
dark10x said:
Which completely changes this issue - why on earth would they remove super-sampling if they solved the performance problems then? THAT is what does not make any sense. IT's either a bug or...I dunno, I can't explain it. It is wrong of them to do that. They definitely dropped the ball here.

I still think Sony needs to implement this feature at an OS level and let users decide for all games.
Click to expand...

Might it be something related to how the scaler is accessed? Before the scaler seemed to be accessed through the software layer, but now looks to be adresses directly by the OS. Perhaps sidestepping the software layer is what allows them to get the performance gains for 4k owners. And I can imagine an on the fly switch between software layer and os level is harder to implement.
 
T

tootie923

Member
Markitron said:
Good to hear. I started on native 4K but think 1800p/60fps is the better all-round presentation - I'm finding the HDR a little disappointing though.
Click to expand...

I haven't done a playthrough since the Pro came out. Did you really notice a difference playing on 4K? I thought 60 fps mode on the base PS4 was excellent, loved the extra responsiveness of the controls, and I don't know if I can go back to 30 fps (I have a 4K TV, BTW).
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
tootie923 said:
I haven't done a playthrough since the Pro came out. Did you really notice a difference playing on 4K? I thought 60 fps mode on the base PS4 was excellent, loved the extra responsiveness of the controls, and I don't know if I can go back to 30 fps (I have a 4K TV, BTW).
Click to expand...
Play it using the 1800p mode then. You still get much higher resolution than 1080p and the performance is excellent now.

The initial Pro patch was pretty poor in this regard (well, at least for my frame-rate sensitive self) as it dropped below 60 during most major battles. Now, though, it's very very smooth and is clearly the way to play.

It is certainly frustrating that this mode has been taken away from 1080p users.
 
T

texhnolyze

Banned
black070 said:
It is a locked 60 at 1080p with high quality shadows, so it's not without benefit. The 30fps option is more baffling really considering there's no benefit at all to it.
Click to expand...

It's a benefit for those people who can't play games at 60fps. Like, it's too video gamey or something. It'll be even better if it drops to 25 as it'll be more cinematic.
 
J

Jacob4815

Member
With supersampling, 1800p/60 fps would be now the best mode without discussions, even for a 1080p player who wants to give priority to resolution.
But they removed it.
 
L

lmbotiva

Junior Member
This has to be a glitch, i find it hard to believe they will fix performance on the 1800p mode and than take super sampling away, we just have to keep asking them until we get an answer, everyone should de their part and contact them on twitter and their official forums
 
C

Christos

Member
It's a shame, because I was looking forward to playing the game on my 1080p TV when I get a PS4 Pro. This change makes me incredibly disappointed.
 
V

Vaga

Member
So now 1800p mode is smoother than before but not available if you don't own a 4k tv. I don't plan to buy a 4k tv for at least a year or until the tech improves for gaming so this fucking sucks.

Hope this is not some kind of new Sony policy that restricts supersampling only on 4k tv sets.

The fact that ND is keeping quiet about this is fucking infuriating.
 
J

Jacob4815

Member
lmbotiva said:
This has to be a glitch, i find it hard to believe they will fix performance on the 1800p mode and than take super sampling away, we just have to keep asking them until we get an answer, everyone should de their part and contact them on twitter and their official forums
Click to expand...

Me and others tried in every way. I contacted Arne, Yoshida, Scott Lowe.
Feedback site is full of requests.

No answer.

Now we have the DF article too, we'll see...

PS. How could this be a glitch with these official words?

Patch 1.08 notes

Now, when running The Last of Us Remastered on the PS4 Pro on a standard high-definition display, the game will run natively at 1080p
Click to expand...
 
Bl@de

Bl@de

Member
Vaga said:
So now 1800p mode is smoother than before but not available if you don't own a 4k tv. I don't plan to buy a 4k tv for at least a year or until the tech improves for gaming so this fucking sucks.

Hope this is not some kind of new Sony policy that restricts supersampling only on 4k tv sets.

The fact that ND is keeping quiet about this is fucking infuriating.
Click to expand...

Yep. If this is planned it's basically a big "fuck you, buy a 4K TV" from a first party developer and makes me wonder how they will handle Uncharted: Lost Legacy and TLOU2. Still hope it's a bug or oversight...
 
H

Hzoltan69

Member
I am really, really hoping that we will get a system wide implementation for supersampling in the next PS4 Pro update. Yes, I'm a dreamer... :)
 
J

jett

D-Member
Is anyone really going to defend Naughty Dog still? They're purposefully screwing HDTV owners here.
 
S

StrongBlackVine

Banned
3rd parties are supporting the Pro better than first party. This is a joke. Not patching the most requests game(Bloodborne), not giving options and now taking features away that were advertised with no explanation.
 
N

Nachtfalke

Member
Glad they fixed the performance, so 4k TV users are in for a treat. But it makes absolutely zero sense why they remove supersampling for 1080p TV users. With the option in place you can make everyone happy, what is the problem with that?

Well I can live with the recent offering, performance is more important for me as 1080p TV owner, but it's still baffling.
 
D

Dunkley

Member
jett said:
Is anyone really going to defend Naughty Dog still? They're purposefully screwing HDTV owners here.
Click to expand...

I mean not that I like the change since I honestly prefer supersampling over eliminating occasional 50-55 fps drops down from 60, but they aren't really purposefully screwing anyone here rather than, what I think, trying to satisfy another camp of the PS4 Pro's userbase than the one they supported previously since they think former is what people really want out of their console instead of the latter.

The issue is however that people want the option to decide between both rather than having the developers choose for them, and Naughty Dog has to acknowledge that rather than selecting #4theplayers and pissing off half of the PS4 Pro's userbase as what they wanted out of the console (like for example supersampling to 1080p) suddenly got patched out.
 
P

Planet

Member
It is similar, but falls short, as it doesn't mention 60 FPS mode at all. I don't want 30 FPS, I don't want slightly bugged better shadows, I want 60 FPS and supersampling.
 
S

StrongBlackVine

Banned
Dunkley said:
I mean not that I like the change since I honestly prefer supersampling over eliminating occasional 50-55 fps drops down from 60, but they aren't really purposefully screwing anyone here rather than, what I think, trying to satisfy another camp of the PS4 Pro's userbase than the one they supported previously since they think former is what people really want out of their console instead of the latter.

The issue is however that people want the option to decide between both rather than having the developers choose for them, and Naughty Dog has to acknowledge that rather than selecting #4theplayers and pissing off half of the PS4 Pro's userbase as what they wanted out of the console (like for example supersampling to 1080p) suddenly got patched out.
Click to expand...

Rise of the Tomb Raider has already proven that you can give options that satisfy every one. There is literally no excuse or justification for this.

Ironic was a bit down on Digital Foundry a bit earlier, but now I'm hoping they draw attention to this new issue the same way they did the initial performance. Looks like Naughty Dog has their fingers in their ears though.
 
C

Charamiwa

Banned
dark10x said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn8H0vOfIL0

There is Tom's video. Now you can stop blaming DF for this issue.

Naughty Dog COMPLETELY fixed the frame-rate when running at 1800p (the 4K mode). It's buttery smooth and better than it has ever been.

They didn't remove super-sampling to improve performance. That is the take-away here. They actually went in and solved the real problem.

Which completely changes this issue - why on earth would they remove super-sampling if they solved the performance problems then? THAT is what does not make any sense. IT's either a bug or...I dunno, I can't explain it. It is wrong of them to do that. They definitely dropped the ball here.

I still think Sony needs to implement this feature at an OS level and let users decide for all games.
Click to expand...

That's not entirely true. Tom's video shows that there are still dips in the 1800p mode, notably during the boss battle. It's vastly improved, but still.

The 1080p mode is where the framerate is completely fixed. Though for a few dips I don't think adding glitchy shadows and downgrading the resolution is worth it.
 
A

Alej

Banned
The only thing coming to mind about this would be a 1080p enhanced mode (with better effects, etc). But that's not the case here, and it sounds dumb to purposely make a 1080p mode without enhancement over a default 1800c framebuffer for everyone with a pro.

So, it makes absolutely no sense.
 
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