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TLOU PRO Patch 1.08 - Supersampling removed from all modes [Up: New DF video]

P

Paganmoon

Member
That one is now also "awaiting moderator approval"

Edit: this one

Planet said:
Just checked, and there might be something happening. I got 6 of my votes back, means they dismissed two of those topics I gave 3 votes each. But they kept the most reasonably written one, which I linked earlier in this thread. I can still see it in my settings, and it doesn't just have over 600 votes, it has 1116!



When I click on it, it still says "awaiting moderator approval", but it still exists. Maybe they deleted the more zany ones and kept this one to discuss? I sure hope they make a statement soon.

EDIT: made the picture clickable, links to the Topic in question, maybe it will become accessible again eventually.
Click to expand...
 
F

foxbeldin

Member
If they're willing to hide unwanted attention on this issue on their own forums, i'm willing to up this issue to the top of neogaf every now and then until it's addressed.

I know you're reading ND.
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
foxbeldin said:
If they're willing to hide unwanted attention on this issue on their own forums, i'm willing to up this issue to the top of neogaf every now and then until it's addressed.

I know you're reading ND.
Click to expand...

Yeah a reaction would be nice. Many of us bought the Pro because it advertised glorious downsampling for 1080p screen owners. And this game had that and they took it away.
 
O

OdysseusVA

Banned
Planet said:
Just checked, and there might be something happening. I got 6 of my votes back, means they dismissed two of those topics I gave 3 votes each. But they kept the most reasonably written one, which I linked earlier in this thread. I can still see it in my settings, and it doesn't just have over 600 votes, it has 1116!



When I click on it, it still says "awaiting moderator approval", but it still exists. Maybe they deleted the more zany ones and kept this one to discuss? I sure hope they make a statement soon.

EDIT: made the picture clickable, links to the Topic in question, maybe it will become accessible again eventually.
Click to expand...

Im getting redirected to the main page.
 
J

Jacob4815

Member
Planet said:
Just checked, and there might be something happening. I got 6 of my votes back, means they dismissed two of those topics I gave 3 votes each. But they kept the most reasonably written one, which I linked earlier in this thread. I can still see it in my settings, and it doesn't just have over 600 votes, it has 1116!



When I click on it, it still says "awaiting moderator approval", but it still exists. Maybe they deleted the more zany ones and kept this one to discuss? I sure hope they make a statement soon.

EDIT: made the picture clickable, links to the Topic in question, maybe it will become accessible again eventually.
Click to expand...

It doesn't work, I'm redirected to the main page.

And they removed old and new threads on supersampling. They removed the threads with few votes, too. If this was a forum rule, probably at least one topic should stay, don't you think?

I don't know what's happening, guys.
 
B

bonchooski

Member
Jacob4815 said:
It doesn't work, I'm redirected to the main page.

And they removed all the old and new threads on supersampling, there's no one left in the public list. They removed the threads with few votes, too. If this was a forum rule, probably at least one topic should stay, don't you think?

I don't know what's happening, guys.
Click to expand...


Hopefully it's a sign that they are working on it or a response to it, hopefully.
 
P

Planet

Member
The linked topic was the first and biggest to get busted. I posted the link to it a few pages back already. It still resides in my settings because I commented on it, but when I click on it, it redirects to the section, just like it does for you guys now. I just added the link again for a time when the topic gets approved by a moderator, if it does.

Maybe it was exactly that jump from 600+ to 1116 that triggered locking the thread, did someone maybe script fake votes?
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
Shadowhelper said:
That's really too bad, after being so impressed with how amazing the supersampling made Titanfall 2 and Uncharted 4 look on the Pro, and having never played TLFO, I was excited to play it sometime down the line, with that same crisp on a 1080p set.

But there is nothing malicious going on, and I am assuming its a technical and creative decision. You don't have options on Uncharted 4, it's just supersampled. But The Last of Us, isn't. So, clearly they are not against the idea of supersampling for 1080p users, at all. They just appear to be against the idea of offering options which is understandable.

The decision not to give too many options is probably the smarter thing to do. Keep the game on the player of the mind, not technical details they would not consider otherwise, or perhaps even notice. Most console gamers want to pop in a game and just enjoy. I think tinkering with options betrays the elegant and simple ideal behind consoles, one of its main attractions and big selling point. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Sony themselves are discouraging developers from offering more than a single GFX option. You have to remember these decision are being made for the mass market, not for relatively meagre number of passionate gafers.
Click to expand...

I don't see how limiting options for 1080p users would be understandable. Especially when the option was there, and ran perfectly fine in the 30fps mode. Not to mention, that it's still there for 4K users:
The Last of Us Remastered, on the other hand, allows you to choose whether you want to play in the game’s original target framerate of 30 frames per second at 2160p or at a high targeted 60 frames per second at 1800p
Click to expand...
The 1080p users should have exactly the same options. There's no excuse for excluding them based on the display type. Period.

People bought the Pro for the promised enhancements, including supersampling, and options for quality and performance. Now, only the 4K users and performance crowd are being catered to. Having a set of options to choose for enthusiasts, who are more likely to buy the Pro than more casual players, isn't taking away the consoles' easy of use. Tomb Raider has them, TLOU had them, so there's nothing preventing them from being returned to 1080p users.
 
K

KORNdoggy

Member
Shadowhelper said:
That's really too bad, after being so impressed with how amazing the supersampling made Titanfall 2 and Uncharted 4 look on the Pro, and having never played TLFO, I was excited to play it sometime down the line, with that same crisp on a 1080p set.

But there is nothing malicious going on, and I am assuming its a technical and creative decision. You don't have options on Uncharted 4, it's just supersampled. But The Last of Us, isn't. So, clearly they are not against the idea of supersampling for 1080p users, at all. They just appear to be against the idea of offering options which is understandable.

The decision not to give too many options is probably the smarter thing to do. Keep the game on the player of the mind, not technical details they would not consider otherwise, or perhaps even notice. Most console gamers want to pop in a game and just enjoy. I think tinkering with options betrays the elegant and simple ideal behind consoles, one of its main attractions and big selling point. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Sony themselves are discouraging developers from offering more than a single GFX option. You have to remember these decision are being made for the mass market, not for relatively meagre number of passionate gafers.
Click to expand...

except the entire point of the PRO and these mid gen consoles is to offer choice. if they didn't want to give us options as enthusiasts, they probably shouldn't have released a mid gen console directed firmly at enthusiasts.
 
M

MarkMclovin

Member
When Ubisoft do a downgrade, it's nothing but fuck Ubisoft and pre orders cancelled.

When Naughty Dog downgrade and remove threads on it, it's a creative decision...
 
J

Jacob4815

Member
Planet said:
Maybe it was exactly that jump from 600+ to 1116 that triggered locking the thread, did someone maybe script fake votes?
Click to expand...

No, because yesterday/today more new threads on SS with less than 200 votes have been removed.
Nothing is left now, only the request to reset to 1.07.
 
M

Movalpolos

Banned
MarkMclovin said:
When Ubisoft do a downgrade, it's nothing but fuck Ubisoft and pre orders cancelled.

When Naughty Dog downgrade and remove threads on it, it's a creative decision...
Click to expand...

You work for ubisoft or something? Why the hell do you care or even bring it up in this thread that has nothing to do with that?
 
S

Syranth

Member
MarkMclovin said:
When Ubisoft do a downgrade, it's nothing but fuck Ubisoft and pre orders cancelled.

When Naughty Dog downgrade and remove threads on it, it's a creative decision...
Click to expand...

The problem is there are people that would like to accept a bad situation for the PS4 Pro so they don't feel the draw to buy it. This is on the developers, and I imagine we will see this more with developers that have less experience making games for the PC market. Tons of options on PC.

I accepted the PS4 Pro as cutting edge in the fact that not everyone would know how to support the new ecosystem just like when I bought an HTC Vive. Developers will get their crap together.
 
M

Movalpolos

Banned
Syranth said:
The problem is there are people that would like to accept a bad situation for the PS4 Pro so they don't feel the draw to buy it. This is on the developers, and I imagine we will see this more with developers that have less experience making games for the PC market. Tons of options on PC.

I accepted the PS4 Pro as cutting edge in the fact that not everyone would know how to support the new ecosystem just like when I bought an HTC Vive. Developers will get their crap together.
Click to expand...

Nothing you said has anything to do with the comment you just quoted.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Maybe I should have brought this up earlier but in the documents it said something about devs having to downscale in software in the older SDK but that it would be added to the newer SDK.


This most likely is what is going on devs will not have to do the super sampling because it will become part of the OS.
 
S

Syranth

Member
Movalpolos said:
Nothing you said has anything to do with the comment you just quoted.
Click to expand...

Sure it does, but maybe I'm not being clear. People seem to be giving ND a pass either because they can't afford a pro and would rather see it as a Pro problem, or because they have a 4K screen and it's not their problem. This is what coming to the PC world is like. Segmented market with only pockets that complain.
 
thelastword

thelastword

Banned
MarkMclovin said:
When Ubisoft do a downgrade, it's nothing but fuck Ubisoft and pre orders cancelled.

When Naughty Dog downgrade and remove threads on it, it's a creative decision...
Click to expand...
Ubisoft took a sub 1080p game, that people were already scratching their heads that it was 900p on the ps4 to begin with. They patch the game for the pro and og ps4 and it looks worse than the 900p game....ND gave 1080p users a locked 60fps with the best shadows where such a combo did not exist before and you call it a downgrade?
 
J

Jacob4815

Member
thelastword said:
Ubisoft took a sub 1080p game, that people were already scratching their heads that it was 900p on the ps4 to begin with. They patch the game for the pro and og ps4 and it looks worse than the 900p game....ND gave 1080p users a locked 60fps with the best shadows where such a combo did not exist before and you call it a downgrade?
Click to expand...

That original Ubisoft and ND post doesn't make sense, I'm with you with this. But after patch 1.8 the image quality is absolutely worse, so yes, it's a downgrade for 1080p users.
 
N

N311V

Neo Member
thelastword said:
...ND gave 1080p users a locked 60fps with the best shadows where such a combo did not exist before and you call it a downgrade?
Click to expand...
.

Come on now mate, you're having a laugh aren't you? Whether a locked 60fps with improved shadows at 1080p is a downgrade from 1800p unlocked running close to 60fps most of the time, is arguable. You know full well people aren't comparing to OG PS4 and complaining. Second, going from 4K super-sampled at 30fps with better shadows to 1080p at 30fps with better shadows is without question a downgrade. Something I'm sure you're aware of.
 
Melchiah

Melchiah

Member
onQ123 said:
Maybe I should have brought this up earlier but in the documents it said something about devs having to downscale in software in the older SDK but that it would be added to the newer SDK.


This most likely is what is going on devs will not have to do the super sampling because it will become part of the OS.
Click to expand...

I hope you're right.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Melchiah said:
I hope you're right.
Click to expand...

pfsWisG.jpg
 
H

Head.spawn

Junior Member
onQ123 said:
Maybe I should have brought this up earlier but in the documents it said something about devs having to downscale in software in the older SDK but that it would be added to the newer SDK.


This most likely is what is going on devs will not have to do the super sampling because it will become part of the OS.
Click to expand...

Nice catch.
 
thelastword

thelastword

Banned
Jacob4815 said:
That original Ubisoft and ND post doesn't make sense, I'm with you with this. But after patch 1.8 the image quality is absolutely worse, so yes, it's a downgrade for 1080p users.
Click to expand...
You can't just call it a downgrade, because 1080p users are getting better performance and better visuals. To outright call this a downgrade is wrong. What they did was add a new mode for 1080 users that favors performance and visuals. So yes if anything that's an extra mode, so when they do re-check downsampling in their engine for the 1800p and 4k for 1080p users, they will now have access to 3 modes when they only had two before

N311V said:
.

Come on now mate, you're having a laugh aren't you? Whether a locked 60fps with improved shadows at 1080p is a downgrade from 1800p unlocked running close to 60fps most of the time, is arguable. You know full well people aren't comparing to OG PS4 and complaining. Second, going from 4K super-sampled at 30fps with better shadows to 1080p at 30fps with better shadows is without question a downgrade. Something I'm sure you're aware of.
Click to expand...
It's arguable? Better performance + better visuals vs removed downsampling and I should agree this is a downgrade. That's two upgrades right there, but the first thing that should come to my mind is a downgrade?

All engines don't provide downsampling as a must, it's a rarity till recently, but people are pretending it has been such a common thing and it's their birthright. It was already implemented here and I'm sure they will bring back downsampling for 1800p and 4k rez, but man all that noise for something that can be easily checked back. What's crazy is that downsampling is not even mandated atm....If that was the case, why aren't people mandating that Overwatch and Paragon render at higher resolutions so they can get a downsampled image? Guess what, developers are giving us pro patches that are only 1080p with enhanced visuals like the 1080p version of TLOUR. I don't see 4k tv owners making all that noise for paragon and overwatch for it.


Again, I agree that downsampling should make it's way back in, but to call this game an outright downgrade as per the last patch is silly. So when some users want to compare Ubisoft's patch to this, yeah, you get it....
 
J

Jacob4815

Member
thelastword said:
It's arguable? Better performance + better visuals vs removed downsampling and I should agree this is a downgrade. That's two upgrades right there, but the first thing that should come to my mind is a downgrade?
.
Click to expand...

Better visuals vs removed downsampling is a contradiction in the same statement.
It's not arguable.
And you always omit the removal from the perfect 30 fps mode.
Paragon? It has a massive, exciting 1080p enhanced mode. From the start. No one can complain about it. And they didn't remove an existing feature.

If you think some better shadows (and glitched, if i'm not wrong) are a visual upgrade that compensate the removal of the supersampling in two different modes (where one was perfect with shadows and stable framerate).. it's your opinion and I respect it( I want to think it's genuine and not an act of trolling) but sorry, it's impossibile to continue the debate. I'm out.
 
thelastword

thelastword

Banned
Jacob4815 said:
LOL... better visuals vs removed downsampling is a contradiction in the same statement.
It's not arguable.
And you omit always the removal from the perfect 30 fps mode.

If you mean some better shadows (and glitched, if i'm not wrong) are a visual upgrade that compensate the removal of the supersampling.. sorry, but it's impossibile to continue the debate. I'm out.
Click to expand...
Yes, better visuals is better shadows, that's an upgrade, locked 60fps is an upgrade as well. On the flip, supersampling is not a visual effect that devs normally provide in games like they do performance or better shadows, so why the outrage. So many other pro games have no supersampling at all.

Tbh, I think we should just wait for the patch that reinstates downsampling, we are blowing this thing up too much. If this is such a downgrade, I wish Ubisoft would give us Unity and Syndicate at 1080p 60fps on the Pro with TLOUR's 1080p mode level of anti-aliasing.

Again, I have no problem with people wanting downsampling back, but the comparisons and the mass panic is way overblown. This is not a game that was performing at 60fps and now it's 30, This is not a game that was performing at 60fps and now it's performing like Just Cause 3 and Fallout 4 on consoles. I'm sure this will be patched back in soon enough, but lets not pretend that ND just downgraded the game here, I see the patch more of an upgrade as opposed to a downgrade any day.

So what some posters are doing is magnifying the negative, just like DF didn't speak of the positives of the higher resolution and supersampling when they spoke of the framerate at 1800p. It's clear however that the positives of the patch far outweigh any negatives....It's just crazy that all the noise was about framerate before, tbh the DF guy who did the TLOUR video says he can't play this at 1800p, he prefers higher framerates but he'll play at 4k for consistency, now that he gets a perfectly locked 60fps suddenly people can't play this at 60fps locked without supersampling...You see how anal it gets....

I personally love my IQ, I understand persons who want the better PQ, but you can't raise the roof for one thing and when you get it still raise the roof for what you paid no attention to before......I hope you get my point, but perhaps we should wait to see how the mood changes when this game is patched again.
 
R

RAWRferal

Member
thelastword said:
Yes, better visuals is better shadows, that's an upgrade, locked 60fps is an upgrade as well. On the flip, supersampling is not a visual effect that devs normally provide in games like they do performance or better shadows, so why the outrage. So many other pro games have no supersampling at all.

Tbh, I think we should just wait for the patch that reinstates downsampling, we are blowing this thing up too much. If this is such a downgrade, I wish Ubisoft would give us Unity and Syndicate at 1080p 60fps on the Pro with TLOUR's 1080p mode level of anti-aliasing.

Again, I have no problem with people wanting downsampling back, but the comparisons and the mass panic is way overblown. This is not a game that was performing at 60fps and now it's 30, This is not a game that was performing at 60fps and now it's performing like Just Cause 3 and Fallout 4 on consoles. I'm sure this will be patched back in soon enough, but lets not pretend that ND just downgraded the game here, I see the patch more of an upgrade as opposed to a downgrade any day.
Click to expand...

Lolwut. So many?

Off the top of my head these games have supersampling:

BF1
COD:IW
Watch Dogs 2
Infamous
FFXV
UC4
Ratchet and Clank
Deus Ex: MD
Hitman
Shadow of Mordor
ROTTR
TF2
TES:O
Skyrim

I'm sure there are others too. In fact, the only games I can think of that don't have supersampling on 1080p displays are Dishonored 2, The Last Guardian and this. TLG just came out, Dishonored is a bit of a mess technically and TLOU just had it removed.

I think people are worried that this could become a trend going forward, supersampling was a much touted benefit for 1080p owners in all Sony's promotional and pre-release stuff and it does give IQ a massive boost in most games, but if ND - one of the most high-profile devs Sony has producing for them doesn't feel the need to include it, what's to stop others following suit later on?

That and it still makes no sense to remove the option entirely.
 
Freshmaker

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
thelastword said:
Yes, better visuals is better shadows, that's an upgrade, locked 60fps is an upgrade as well. On the flip, supersampling is not a visual effect that devs normally provide in games like they do performance or better shadows, so why the outrage. So many other pro games have no supersampling at all.

Tbh, I think we should just wait for the patch that reinstates downsampling, we are blowing this thing up too much. If this is such a downgrade, I wish Ubisoft would give us Unity and Syndicate at 1080p 60fps on the Pro with TLOUR's 1080p mode level of anti-aliasing.
Click to expand...

Yeah. they have that totally planned. That's why they quietly deleted all mention of super sampling from all their PS blog articles.
 
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