UserNameStolen
Member
I agree 100%. I can't understand why it wasn't from the start. Makes me worried they won't ever have it on an OS level.
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TLOU PRO Patch 1.08 - Supersampling removed from all modes [Up: New DF video]
- Thread starter Jacob4815
- Start date
Did you not see my post about it being added to the SDK?
I do wonder, though, if this is a fact, if it'll merely affect later games and not the ones that are out and don't allow for it.
I think this is only affecting 2 games right? Both are first-party titles? If so then I could see it all working out in the end. Eventually.
It has to be said... why are first-party games not doing this but other games (like Titanfall 2) are. That's what makes me very sceptical. What is detailed in that leak already happens.
UserNameStolen
Member
Somebody came to my door while I was writing that post. At the time I started writing it you hadn't posted yet. It's great to see though, so thanks.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
Yes, awesome.
There's only three games that do this. Dishonored 2, which appears to just be a bug since DF found a way to force it, TLG, and TLoUR. TLG runs substantially better in the 1080p mode so it makes more sense there. TLoU is the real strange one since performance is improved over the base PS4 anyway after 1.08.
So in essence ND is preparing for a future firmware that will have a downscale from 4K modes to HDTV native. It makes sense then that they're just prepatching for that day so they can move on. If so, this does leave us 1080p tv owners in a lurch. I still don't see why at the very very least they can't leave the code from 1.07 in with the 1.08 and just do a conditional and check for the PS4 output settings. I really really hope this is the case because anything else seems anti consumer.
Marty Chinn
Member
SDK support isn't exactly the same as OS level support.
Four, count the Witness in. But it uses 4xMSAA in 1080p which suits the game very nicely, there is no problem with the image quality at all, unlike with TLoU as it is now for us 1080peasants, which can be clearly seen in the latest DF analysis.
Nothing.
People are creating more and more threads, but it's useless now.
And no answers from staff and developers when contacted for explanations on the1.08 patch.
It would be very simple to quiet the rage:
"Yes, guys, we're aware of the thing and there will be a fix. But now we are very busy because we're making amazing things for you. So please, be patient"
"No guys. Sorry. There are technical and creative decisions on the last patch. Nothing is going to change."
Some words. Lack of communications toward the customer is always the worst scenario, worse than the patch itself.
Melchiah
Member
If that's indeed the case, and they're waiting for the new firmware, it makes the silence about the issue all the more puzzling.
Miggytronz
Member
So basically their move to remove Downsampling is due to a new SDK incoming for the PRO. I can dig it if so but it sure would be nice to know that's what's happening. Ball in Sony's court?
We don't know, It's just an assumption on a previous leak. Nice if true, but we need some words on the matter
We don't know, It's just an assumption on a previous leak. Nice if true, but we need some words on the matter
Seems unlikely though. If removal of super-sampling for HD TVs was temporary, why remove mention of super-sampling on 1080p TVs from an old PS blog article about Pro beneifits for TLoU:R? Seems unnecessarily.
Yeah but how old is this slide and is it still happening?
It still refers to the Pro as Neo.
Always-honest
Banned
this
If someone wants to try, here some official twitter accounts to contact.
They are all good people, very friendly and open in the past.
https://twitter.com/arnemeyer
https://twitter.com/cbalestra
https://twitter.com/evan_wells
https://twitter.com/cgyrling
https://twitter.com/jqgregory
https://twitter.com/yosp
Yes, it is certainly different. One is downgrading the game after you paid for money for it.
You know, I do believe sometimes it's important to point out hypocrisy. Maybe the more hardcore naughtypuppies will get some perspective one day and stop defending every single thing their favorite company does. Not even Crossing Eden defends Ubisoft's graphical downgrades.
I was so close to getting a PRO as well.
I'm sure this patch was a response to Digital Foundry (DF) complaining that TLoU ran worse on the Pro on a 1080p TV. Unfortunately for those of us that value image quality, DF practically ignored the fact that patch 1.07 had TLoU super-sampling from a native 1800p on Pro while ocassionally running slower, impressive work considering launch PS4 just manages to handle native 1080p. DF's video was click-bait in my opinion, perhaps unintentionally so as those guys care a lot about frame-rate. Regardless, the headline that Pro is slower than launch was loud and spread quickly.
I suspect the negative headlines caused Sony to pressure ND for a fix. Super-sampling anti-aliasing (SSAA) isn't free and the quickest way ND could get TLoU running faster was probably to remove SSAA from the game code. Whether ND implementing this quick and dirty fix was due to Sony's request and are working on a better solution, or whether ND don't want to put any more time into TLoU, is unknown, hopefully it's the former.
In any case, this is just my speculation. A word from ND on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
Melchiah
Member
What hypocrisy in particular on this thread, and is that an euphanism for Sony Pony? I don't see the point in bringing that argument to this thread, since most people here have been vocal about their grievance with the matter.
What do you mean what hypocrisy? There have been a few brushing the situation over, and even blaming Digital Foundry for it. Or the two people I quoted, one acting like both situations aren't the same at all, and the other seemingly acting offended at the notion of ND being compared to Ubisoft. And then there's thelastword who is currently in category all of his own.
Oh and that's just a term of endearment (it's a joke since I just made it up) for the more insane ND fans, which really should cool it the fuck down already, speaking as someone that loves the UC trilogy and TLOU on PS3 and spent literally hundreds if not thousands of hours playing UC2 and UC3 multiplayer.
Melchiah
Member
They're definitely the minority here. Unless I've missed a few posts, I've seen only a couple of people posting something like that. So, it's unfounded to put the rest into the same category. Most of us have called it a downgrade, plain and simple, not a "creative decision".
A post-release downgrade isn't really comparable to something that's been downgraded from the pre-release material. It's worse than a pre-release downgrade, as far as I'm concerned. We've played TLOU in its former glory, and it still runs the same on 4K displays post-batch. The issue here is, that the higher resolution modes are only available with a certain display type. It's an extremely annoying and unfair way to divide the modes on the same hardware. I don't recall seeing anything like that mentioned on Gaf regarding Ubisoft's games, but I don't own a single game of theirs, so I wouldn't have a personal experience on the matter.
I'm a big fan of TLOU, it's among my all-time top 3 with Bloodborne and Silent Hill 2, but it doesn't prevent me from being pissed about this, and demanding the supersampling to be returned. The same seems to apply to many other TLOU fans on this thread.
Doesn't this belong to the same purported leak that implied worse performance on the Pro would be grounds for certification failure and perhaps other things that are now known to be inaccurate?
Edit: Seems so.
Equanimity
Member
I don't think we can it call it an outright dowgrade for 1080p owners. If supersampling is the only thing that concerns you then sure. But, for those that prefer a locked frame-rate and high quality shadows in the 60fps mode then the new patch is a clear upgrade from patch 1.07 and base PS4.
Melchiah
Member
I played it in the supersampled 4K/30fps mode, so it's definitely a downgrade from that. Especially when I care about image quality far more than framerate, and looking at this thread it seems like I'm not the only one.
Equanimity
Member
I already said if supersampling/downsampling is your main concern then it is an obvious downgrade. The new patch introduces two benefits and one disadvantage for 1080p 60fps players.
Yes but with patch 1.08 the 4k and 1800p modes for 4k users have now an upgraded framerate and high shadows.
1080p users could have a supersampled image and an improved framerate, so no excuse on restrict some customers. This for the 60fps mode.
And the 30 fps mode is officially a downgrade compared to 1.07.
Liabe Brave
Member
I don't believe it said anything about cert failure, just that performance should be same or better on Pro. And it does seem like Sony is strongly encouraging that. Because while a handful of games as initially patched did run worse, almost all of them were improved very rapidly with another patch. The only remaining examples are Skyrim and CoDBlOps III. And the latter is apparently worse due to double buffering; number of drops may be less, though average fps is worse.
It doesn't, no, but that the Pro version of a game should be superior to its regular counterpart is stressed at least twice, hence "implied".
Since patch 1.08, the framerate at 1800p is so good that you would have to be very pedantic and feel physical pain with each dropped frame when you think absolutely locked 60fps is noticeably better than that. This is not a fast paced Housemarque action game. And the HQ shadows have drawbacks of their own.
It doesn't, no, but that the Pro version of a game should be superior to its regular counterpart is stressed at least twice, hence "implied".
I think only 3 out of the 50+ Pro supported titles are now left with issues compared to the base PS4:
- World of Final Fantasy on 1080p screens
- Assassins Creed Syndicate on 4K screens
- Black Ops 3
The Last of Us Remastered, Watch Dogs 2, Deus Ex Mankind Divided and Skyrim Special Edition all received patches to address their respective issues, and whilst I know this thread is regarding the removal of supersampling on the former title, it's still an improvement over the base PS4.
That's good to know for those with 4K screens, I did my Pro playthrough at 30fps for the absolute best IQ possible.
davidwhangchoi
Member
i want my super sampling back =)
Melchiah
Member
Before the patch, there was also 1800p/50-60fps mode on 1080 displays.
thelastword
Banned
Skyrim was patched, I'm sure it can be otptimized further, maybe a 1800p checkerboarded game at 30fps won't drop a single frame or a 1080p 60fps can be offered, but the game runs pretty solid at 30fps at 4k.
Blops 3 at 1080p runs at a very solid 60fps on the Pro. The 4k mode has some issues, and yes, the double buffered vsync locks gameplay to 30fps when it tears and drops frames, if that wasn't the case, then performance would be higher over the OG PS4 in 4k mode as well. Hopefully they will patch out double buffered vsync, optimize at 2160p or make it easier to keep frames up in the 4k mode at 1800p checkerboarded. As it stands the game still runs better on Pro at 1080p.
There is a mode for 60fps analists, so they don't have to suffer the drops of the 1800p code. Heh, locked 60 is a rarity on consoles, even on remasters, so I was expecting lots of praise for that.
At this point I think it will take them more time to fix the shadows, than to reimplement downsampling., so hopefully, they're taking their time because they want to address every issue raised so far.
So I'm thinking the next patch will have high shadows fixed and will also reinstate downsampling, unless, patch 4.07 allows downsampling at an OS level.
People have to remember though, many devs are deeply involved in their current projects. People complained about the HDR in Infamous and now they have fixed it amongst other bugs. Pro patches for older games are not done and dusted yet either, there are many patches coming and improvements to current patches as well. I think after the holidays when most triple AAA titles have shipped and devs get a break from their current palette we will see some focus on some older titles between now and the new year.
That's all well and good, but the context of the discussion was performance as it seemingly related to certification.
Can you point me to where it says any game performing worse won't get certified ? It says all games should perform at least the same or better - like I said above, only 3 titles are left that don't meet the criteria, two of which are known to have a fix in the works.
Again, it doesn't say that, but the importance of better performance is stressed at least twice, hence "implied". I'm also acutely aware that the other side of the coin here is that performance is of particular note because consumers don't want to pay for a premium product only to receive a standard or even sub-par experience, which is precisely why I've consciously avoided saying that the slides state that performance is a certification matter.
Right, but then my question is how is that point inaccurate when only 3 out of 50+ titles have Pro specific issues, (2 of which that are confirmed to have a patch on the way) ? The point is Pro enhanced games should perform better then the PS4, and they do. Certification isn't implied at all there. For all we know, the consistent patches across all these different titles could be to meet that mandate, rather then leaving them be as you'd expect from a few developers.
I started out wi h completely the same stance. But the longer ND say nothing, the less certain I am. In this day and age of social media etc, completely radio silence is almost never a good thing.
Because the logical conclusion to draw is that the Pro versions of some games launching with performance issues is incontrovertible proof that performance isn't a certification matter. Having said that:
I'm not saying that it's the only possible interpretation of the language, and in fact edited my previous post to make this as clear as I possibly can. Evidently you disagree that there's an implication vis-a-vis certification, though, and that's okay.
The edit came after I'd responded so I missed it but okay then, that's fair enough.
Yeah, I know; I just figured I'd mention the edit rather than repeat myself as I didn't want to risk the latter being misconstrued as insulting your intelligence by way of beating you over the head with the very same point back-to-back.
Nah that's fine - what I'm more concerned about regarding that leaked slide is whether every title released from October onwards really will support the Pro. On one hand, it has held true since even the smaller releases like Darksiders and the Ezio Collection have launched with Pro support, but on the other, it could just be a big push by Sony to support the Pro's launch.
Yeah, I'm of two minds about that: requiring Pro support indefinitely does, in theory, make for an increasingly compelling reason to upgrade, however, as we've already seen, there's no guarantee that the Pro version of a given title will offer a superior experience and this creates uncertainty, so I can also see Sony eventually allowing developers to choose whether or not they want to include Pro support in the interest of not further poisoning the well.
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