• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Tomb Raider Definitive Edition - PlayStation 4 = ~60fps, Xbox One = ~30fps

Status
Not open for further replies.
SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I had a feeling something was up when I heard 1080P and 30fps for both. Glad to hear PS4 version isnt being held back for the sake of parity with Xbone.
 
F

Frank the Great

Banned
bud said:
30FPS will Always Deliver Better Story-Telling than 60FPS in Games – Heres Why


All the peeps of the Gaming World have been going crazy over 30 FPS and 60 FPS standards this last year. From 60fps/1080p being thought the new Next Gen standard to Ryse downgrades. But there a point many people are missing, one which i hope to shed some light on today, the point that why 30 FPS cant and shouldn’t ever be replaced with 60fps.

30fps vs 60fps – The Magic of Story Telling Lies in Lower FPS, 30 FPS will always deliver a more “Cinematic” Experience than 60FPS.

I am of course making quite a bold claim and the burden of proof lies with me. One which i am more than willing to shoulder. Let me begin by saying that the minimum limit that our brain needs to perceive moving frames as a seamless entity ( a video) is 24 Frames Per Second. This is one of the reason 99% of Movies are shot at 24 FPS. Though this was originally due to Sound Hardware limitation of Old Cinema, it has now become the Cinematic Standard. The 24 fps of the Cinema Industry is roughly equivalent to the 30 fps standard of the Gaming Industry. When you see a video shot at 24 fps / 30 fps there are holes to fill and your brain automatically does this by literally creating stuff out of your imagination : also known as movie magic. The More frames you increase, the less you brain fills in, the less the “magic”.


Proof of Concept: Hobbit 24 FPS vs 48 FPS analogy to the 30FPS vs 60FPS Gaming Standard

So, Notice how the 48FPS video looks, Sped Up, Weird and almost too Real (in a Bad Way) ? That is called the Soap Opera Effect. Because we grew up in a world where reality tv and soap operas were shot at a higher FPS our brains are now hard wired to associate mundane reality with Higher FPS. And i think you can see now what i meant by our brain filling in the gaps at lower FPS. The Original trailer looks magical and truly “Cinematic”. Of course you might be one of the minority who actually like the sped up, but in my opinion that is probably because of the Novelty Value.

30fps vs 60fps

The more Frames Per Second we increase in our Gaming Standards the less “Magical” they will feel.
I remember when playing Alan Wake (at 30fps) that it felt unbelievably like a movie to me, the sudden attacks of darkness and the way everything was moving about, i wonder if the magic would have been there with 60FPS. If i could clearly see how everything moved – probably not. Likewise in Cinema the Smokes and Mirrors fall away with increased fps – and story telling is all about the illusion. Of course some games would actually benefit from higher frames per second like Racing Games and Fighting Games (Tekken) but Games in which story telling is a main part would do better with the 30FPS Standard.

http://wccftech.com/30fps-vs-60fps-30fps-better-story-telling-games/​

can you people finally drop this "60fps is better" nonsense
Click to expand...

Finally, someone makes some fucking sense. You are a god amongst men, bud.
 
J

jelly

Member
Doesn't bode well for the future.

Forza managed 1080p and 60fps so it can be done but that was rough beyond the cars and easier to do with a racing game.

Next Halo will be interesting, 60fps at what resolution and any AA etc. ?
 
J

JawzPause

Member
bud said:
30FPS will Always Deliver Better Story-Telling than 60FPS in Games – Heres Why


All the peeps of the Gaming World have been going crazy over 30 FPS and 60 FPS standards this last year. From 60fps/1080p being thought the new Next Gen standard to Ryse downgrades. But there a point many people are missing, one which i hope to shed some light on today, the point that why 30 FPS cant and shouldn’t ever be replaced with 60fps.

30fps vs 60fps – The Magic of Story Telling Lies in Lower FPS, 30 FPS will always deliver a more “Cinematic” Experience than 60FPS.

I am of course making quite a bold claim and the burden of proof lies with me. One which i am more than willing to shoulder. Let me begin by saying that the minimum limit that our brain needs to perceive moving frames as a seamless entity ( a video) is 24 Frames Per Second. This is one of the reason 99% of Movies are shot at 24 FPS. Though this was originally due to Sound Hardware limitation of Old Cinema, it has now become the Cinematic Standard. The 24 fps of the Cinema Industry is roughly equivalent to the 30 fps standard of the Gaming Industry. When you see a video shot at 24 fps / 30 fps there are holes to fill and your brain automatically does this by literally creating stuff out of your imagination : also known as movie magic. The More frames you increase, the less you brain fills in, the less the “magic”.


Proof of Concept: Hobbit 24 FPS vs 48 FPS analogy to the 30FPS vs 60FPS Gaming Standard

So, Notice how the 48FPS video looks, Sped Up, Weird and almost too Real (in a Bad Way) ? That is called the Soap Opera Effect. Because we grew up in a world where reality tv and soap operas were shot at a higher FPS our brains are now hard wired to associate mundane reality with Higher FPS. And i think you can see now what i meant by our brain filling in the gaps at lower FPS. The Original trailer looks magical and truly “Cinematic”. Of course you might be one of the minority who actually like the sped up, but in my opinion that is probably because of the Novelty Value.

30fps vs 60fps

The more Frames Per Second we increase in our Gaming Standards the less “Magical” they will feel.
I remember when playing Alan Wake (at 30fps) that it felt unbelievably like a movie to me, the sudden attacks of darkness and the way everything was moving about, i wonder if the magic would have been there with 60FPS. If i could clearly see how everything moved – probably not. Likewise in Cinema the Smokes and Mirrors fall away with increased fps – and story telling is all about the illusion. Of course some games would actually benefit from higher frames per second like Racing Games and Fighting Games (Tekken) but Games in which story telling is a main part would do better with the 30FPS Standard.

http://wccftech.com/30fps-vs-60fps-30fps-better-story-telling-games/​

can you people finally drop this "60fps is better" nonsense
Click to expand...
wow....just
wow.
 
A

allan-bh

Member
Piggus said:
900p on PS4 will be the exception, not the rule. Do some research into the actual hardware and you'll understand why. Sup 720p games last gen were also an exception. My point is that no game last gen ran at the same resolution as the generation of games before it. Every generation brings with it new standards in resolution and other effects and on PS4 1080p is that standard.
Click to expand...

Maybe sub 720p last gen was an exception (I don't have this information), but I know that a lot major titles on X360 and PS3 are sub720p. If is an exception, is far from be unusual.

I'm not convinced that we will see as standard the big games with the best graphics running at 1080p.
 
Riky

Riky

$MSFT
godelsmetric said:
This bodes very worryingly for Halo 5 if they're sticking with their original plan of it being 1080p60.
Click to expand...

A port of a multiplatform last gen game in the launch period compared to a single platform game, with a massive budget with a release date yet to be announced.

I don't think it will have any bearing at all on Halo V.
 
T

Trent Strong

Banned
Rayge said:
Well once everything starts running at 48fps and this generation or the next generation of kids grow up with that, they'll associate that with cinematic. Even now when people watch movies on "120hz" or "240hz" TVs there is a "soap opera" effect. You're archaic way of thinking isn't going to hold any merit once the kids these days become the next late teens and young adults.
Click to expand...

Everyone who is even remotely tech savvy turns that cinemotion stuff off because it looks terrible.
 
Mahnmut

Mahnmut

Member
Please, these "30fps is better than 60fps" arguments are ridiculous.
Just accept the fact that the X1 is less powerful than the PS4.
What's next ? 720p is better than 1080p ? Mono better than 5.1 ?
 
Acheteedo

Acheteedo

Member
I did wonder if the launch games had differences across the two platforms mainly due to the tight deadline and constantly updating firmware. This news is strong evidence that the power difference will have a long lasting impact on multiplatform games.
 
P

puzl

Banned
It's almost as if.... the gaming medium.... and the film medium..... are two... separate.... things!

From now on, I think the only solution is to block any user who says stupid shit like "there is no difference between 60fps and 30fps" or "I prefer the look of 30fps"

Nothing of value will be lost, I assure you.
 
B

Betta Lines

Member
bud said:
Amusing article
Click to expand...
That article is a poor argument. There is a huge difference between the effect of framerate in film and framerate in games. What the article fails to realise is that live action in films is happening at infinite FPS. It is then chosen to be captured at a certain framerate. The action in games happens at the framerate that the system can perform at. It's not infinite, so even if the system can average around 45fps and they limit the game to 30fps, this is nothing like filming real life at 30fps.

Therefore, in order to achieve truly 'cinematic' games that look like films, the systems should be aiming for the highest framerate possible, ideally several hundred FPS, and then you can 'capture' that at a lower framerate at times when you really want that 'film like' look.
 
B

B.O.O.M

Member
DemonNite said:
I did say "to all" ;)

Drive Club is probably optimising to 24FPS
Click to expand...

goodgood-but-we-must-go-deeper.jpg


Edit: read your answer above lol
 
K

Kura

Banned
Despite all the hate, one thing is true.
30 fps brings a more cinematic experience, because films go at 24 fps and 30 is closer to 24 than 60 (Captain Obvious makes his apparence!).

But talking about games, is that suposed to be a good thing? NOPE.
 
A

Aeneas

Member
Ouch. Calling "definitive edition" to the xbox version seems a bit silly now.

Hopefully devs will keep pushing 1080p 60fps as the standard.
 
T

TheYanger

Member
Pazuzu9 said:
That article is a poor argument. There is a huge difference between the effect of framerate in film and framerate in games. What the article fails to realise is that live action in films is happening at infinite FPS. It is then chosen to be captured at a certain framerate. The action in games happens at the framerate that the system can perform at. It's not infinite, so even if the system can average around 45fps and they limit the game to 30fps, this is nothing like filming real life at 30fps.

Therefore, in order to achieve truly 'cinematic' games that look like films, the systems should be aiming for the highest framerate possible, ideally several hundred FPS, and then you can 'capture' that at a lower framerate at times when you really want that 'film like' look.
Click to expand...

This....makes no sense. If there were 100% locked framerate a game at 30 fps would be no different to your eyes than a movie at 30 fps.

The reason we don't see games the same way we see movies is because they're not remotely photorealistic. The Hobbit looks weird to some people at high framerate because it looks 'fake' whereas we're used to the lower framerate film, if your video game looked exactly like the hobbit somehow you'd have the same problem.

I'm not saying 30 fps is better than 60, it's fucking not - obviously. But this 'unlimited framerate' standpoint is silly.

Motion blur is the real difference, which your brain uses to fill in the picture, which is sort of what you're getting towards, but it's the result not the cause.
 
P

pixlexic

Banned
So the versions are identical graphically. One is 60fps with dips. , the other 30 fps with spikes.

The big question is??? Would dropping the xbone to 900p for that 60 fps be the better move?
 
NinjaBoiX

NinjaBoiX

Member
"When you see a video shot at 24 fps / 30 fps there are holes to fill and your brain automatically does this by literally creating stuff out of your imagination : also known as movie magic."

Lol, movie magic is when your brain fills in the gaps in the frame rate.

OK then, if you say so.

Jesus wept...
 
X

xBuTcHeRx

Member
If anyone has not played this game at all now you have 2 choices, you can get the GOTY edition on your old gen boxes FOR $30. OR if you have a next gen box and is your only console you have, this is a great time for you to get in on the prettier of the game. However for me who has already beat it on previous gen, I won't (and many of you) should be smart enough to NOT double-dip on this game for a full $60! I'll cave if at $40 but $60 is just absurd! Don't let SE take advantage of the gamers wallets. Prettier shouldn't make it cost more for something that's already been out for almost a year now. Like COD, who still buys a cut and paste game every year, geeeezzz.
 
Chobel

Chobel

Member
pixlexic said:
So the versions are identical graphically. One is 60fps with dips. , the other 30 fps with spikes.

The big question is??? Would dropping the xbone to 900p for that 60 fps be the better move?
Click to expand...

You mean 720p? Because dropping to 900p isn't enough to double the framerate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

After almost a decade, Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition is finally available on PC as a Microsoft Store exclusive
News
33
2K
RickSanchez replied
Tomb Raider Remastered Trilogy New Gameplay Videos Released
Trailer 2 3 4 5
206
13K
genesisblock replied
Xbox Series S, PS4, Xbox One, Switch cannot run Naruto x Boruto Connections at 60fps
Drama Cringe Hardware
7
2K
Vognerful replied
Tomb Raider I-III Remastered – features detailed, new key art Revealed
News 2 3
112
9K
MonkeyClaw36 replied
  • Locked
Pentiment Reportedly Runs Better on PlayStation 5 than on the Xbox Series
Community Platform
4
1K
LordCBH replied
Top Bottom