Support NeoGAF

[SmokyDave]

"When you see a video shot at 24 fps / 30 fps there are holes to fill and your brain automatically does this by literally creating stuff out of your imagination : also known as movie magic."

Lol, movie magic is when your brain fills in the gaps in the frame rate.

OK then, if you say so.

Jesus wept...

Sounds ____ total ________ to __.

(You'll need to use word magic to fill in my post. I find it leads to a better experience for the reader).

 

[zzz79]

30FPS will Always Deliver Better Story-Telling than 60FPS in Games – Heres Why


All the peeps of the Gaming World have been going crazy over 30 FPS and 60 FPS standards this last year. From 60fps/1080p being thought the new Next Gen standard to Ryse downgrades. But there a point many people are missing, one which i hope to shed some light on today, the point that why 30 FPS cant and shouldn’t ever be replaced with 60fps.

30fps vs 60fps – The Magic of Story Telling Lies in Lower FPS, 30 FPS will always deliver a more “Cinematic” Experience than 60FPS.

I am of course making quite a bold claim and the burden of proof lies with me. One which i am more than willing to shoulder. Let me begin by saying that the minimum limit that our brain needs to perceive moving frames as a seamless entity ( a video) is 24 Frames Per Second. This is one of the reason 99% of Movies are shot at 24 FPS. Though this was originally due to Sound Hardware limitation of Old Cinema, it has now become the Cinematic Standard. The 24 fps of the Cinema Industry is roughly equivalent to the 30 fps standard of the Gaming Industry. When you see a video shot at 24 fps / 30 fps there are holes to fill and your brain automatically does this by literally creating stuff out of your imagination : also known as movie magic. The More frames you increase, the less you brain fills in, the less the “magic”.


Proof of Concept: Hobbit 24 FPS vs 48 FPS analogy to the 30FPS vs 60FPS Gaming Standard

So, Notice how the 48FPS video looks, Sped Up, Weird and almost too Real (in a Bad Way) ? That is called the Soap Opera Effect. Because we grew up in a world where reality tv and soap operas were shot at a higher FPS our brains are now hard wired to associate mundane reality with Higher FPS. And i think you can see now what i meant by our brain filling in the gaps at lower FPS. The Original trailer looks magical and truly “Cinematic”. Of course you might be one of the minority who actually like the sped up, but in my opinion that is probably because of the Novelty Value.

30fps vs 60fps

The more Frames Per Second we increase in our Gaming Standards the less “Magical” they will feel.
I remember when playing Alan Wake (at 30fps) that it felt unbelievably like a movie to me, the sudden attacks of darkness and the way everything was moving about, i wonder if the magic would have been there with 60FPS. If i could clearly see how everything moved – probably not. Likewise in Cinema the Smokes and Mirrors fall away with increased fps – and story telling is all about the illusion. Of course some games would actually benefit from higher frames per second like Racing Games and Fighting Games (Tekken) but Games in which story telling is a main part would do better with the 30FPS Standard.

http://wccftech.com/30fps-vs-60fps-30fps-better-story-telling-games/​

can you people finally drop this "60fps is better" nonsense

wtf...lol...wtf...lol

unbelievable

 

[DemonNite]

can someone explain a non techy guy the difference between 30 fps & 60 fps ?

which is better & why should I care ?

thanks in advance

If you know nothing about it already and not bothered in the past, it's best that you just ignore it and enjoy games as usual

 

[Kerub]

can someone explain a non techy guy the difference between 30 fps & 60 fps ?

which is better & why should I care ?

thanks in advance

It stands for "fallacies per second", and describes discussions on internet forums.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

XBO can't get 60 FPS on a last gen port three months into the new generation.

Good luck, Microsoft.

 

[maquiladora]

First we had the 'lower resolution is better' stuff, now I'm seeing 'lower frame rate is better' posts....

I don't know why people upgrade their PC's. Clearly they should be downgrading them, for the better experience.

 

[twobear]

A port of a multiplatform last gen game in the launch period compared to a single platform game, with a massive budget with a release date yet to be announced.

I don't think it will have any bearing at all on Halo V.

A port of a last-gen game that can't reach 60fps when the other platform can. And they seem to be putting a lot of effort into it, it doesn't seem like a quick cash-grab port-up.

I don't really see why they announced 60fps for H5 in the first place to be honest, 30fps has always been more than adequate for the series and they're going to have to sacrifice a tremendous amount of eye candy to hit that target. In fact it just makes me worried that they're using Halo 5 to chase the COD market even more.

Perhaps they'll do a KZ and have 30fps campaign, 60fps multiplayer.

 

[Number45]

Any word on Microsoft doing a public apology?

Why would they need to?

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Wow, it's quite a difference. That's a shame for Xbox One owners.

 

[Thomas_Daly]

If you know nothing about it already and not bothered in the past, it's best that you just ignore it and enjoy games as usual

ok

 

[allan-bh]

Wow, it's quite a difference. That's a shame for Xbox One owners.

Lower resolution is a shame for owners of a video game... why?

 

[Ricky_R]

Haven't read the OP completely. Is this just a disparity until they optimize the Xbone version before release, or is this how the games will release? Is this "definitive" version gold?

Not too informed on its release date tbh.

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

Another Dev not putting effort in the Xbox One version? Color me surprised..... :/

I don't think its that. Its rather that they're not gimping the Ps4 version so that both look and run the same.

 

[Oakey]

Nevermind

 

[Fredrik]

The big question is??? Would dropping the xbone to 900p for that 60 fps be the better move?

Hard to say, there are those that simply can't see the difference between 30 and 60 fps, and there are those that can't see the difference between 1080p and 900p. In my opinion a high framerate is always the better choice so I'd say that they should go down to 720p and really lock those 60fps tightly.

 

[Kerub]

Why would they need to?

For being objectively literally anti-consumer.

 

[twobear]

Lower resolution is a shame for owners of a video game... why?

Because they paid $100 more for the console and MS's PR mouthpieces insisted all the way up to launch that they weren't going to 'let' Sony have a major hardware advantage?

 

[Betta Lines]

Compelling argument.

Alright, let me explain another way.

Real life is essentially infinite FPS. If you film it at 30fps, every frame contains a bit of blur captured perfectly from this infinite FPS.

A game locked to 30fps doesn't have this infinite visual information to capture. It's generating its own, so it won't look as natural. We get motion blur in games now, but that is rather different, and not being generated from infinite FPS.

The framerate is the same to the eyes, but the quality of the information is very different.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

30FPS will Always Deliver Better Story-Telling than 60FPS in Games – Heres Why

can you people finally drop this "60fps is better" nonsense​

Wtf did I just read.

The only reason the Hobbit looks strange at 48fps is because we are used to seeing movies at 24fps and TV at 25/29.97 for PAL and NTSC respectively.​

 

[Chobel]

Haven't read the OP completely. Is this just a disparity until they optimize the Xbone version before release, or is this how the games will release? Is this "definitive" version gold?

Not too informed on its release date tbh.

It's "definitive" version gold. Release date Jan 31st.

 

[KidBeta]

So a ripped or even emulated feature will perform even better than the original feature? Oo

Its more that all DX does is expose the hardware, as in the PS4 will expose the same things the XB1 does.

 

[jayu26]

Haven't read the OP completely. Is this just a disparity until they optimize the Xbone version before release, or is this how the games will release? Is this "definitive" version gold?

Not too informed on its release date tbh.

That's your first mistake, and that is how it will release.

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

Lower resolution is a shame for owners of a video game... why?

godelsmetric said it.

Because they paid $100 more for the console and MS's PR mouthpieces insisted all the way up to launch that they weren't going to 'let' Sony have a major hardware advantage?

 

[Stone Ocean]

can someone explain a non techy guy the difference between 30 fps & 60 fps ?

which is better & why should I care ?

thanks in advance

More frames per second mean more fluid and realistic animations. It's the difference between a Hannah Barbera cartoon and a Disney movie.

As long as graphical quality isn't sacrificed in the process, more is always better.

 

[PodcastFips]

If you know nothing about it already and not bothered in the past, it's best that you just ignore it and enjoy games as usual

Isn't that a bit unfair?

can someone explain a non techy guy the difference between 30 fps & 60 fps ?

which is better & why should I care ?

thanks in advance

In games you always want to aim for higher FPS (frames per second), because it looks and plays smoother and more responsive. It impacts gameplay to a certain degree.
While there are people saying the human eye can't notice a difference on FPS above 30, you definitely feel it once you played a game with double the framerate.

That's about it basically. You have to experience it yourself.

 

[jpax]

30FPS will Always Deliver Better Story-Telling than 60FPS in Games – Heres Why


http://wccftech.com/30fps-vs-60fps-30fps-better-story-telling-games/​

can you people finally drop this "60fps is better" nonsense

This is maybe the dumbest thing I have ever read... The spinning is unreal...

 

[Bishop89]

can someone explain a non techy guy the difference between 30 fps & 60 fps ?

which is better & why should I care ?

thanks in advance

http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html
there.

Let the page load fully

 

[Dinjooh]

Isn't that a bit unfair?



In games you always want to aim for higher FPS (frames per second), because it looks and plays smoother and more responsive. It impacts gameplay to a certain degree.
While there are people saying the human eye can't notice a difference on FPS above 30, you definitely feel it once you played a game with double the framerate.

That's about it basically. You have to experience it yourself.

Surely no-one said that. Right?

 

[Zok310]

100% gap, wow.

 

[orioto]

Alright, let me explain another way.

Real life is essentially infinite FPS. If you film it at 30fps, every frame contains a bit of blur captured perfectly from this infinite FPS.

A game locked to 30fps doesn't have this infinite visual information to capture. It's generating its own, so it won't look as natural. We get motion blur in games now, but that is rather different, and not being generated from infinite FPS.

The framerate is the same to the eyes, but the quality of the information is very different.

And i 'd add that the whole Hobbit 48fps is not there for nothing. The article is proud to show that the movie looks "fake", but it forgets to talk about the reason behind the tech. Every scenes with a camera movement on the background or fast action looks more readable at 48fps, and stable. And if this is not groundbreaking for a movie, this is REALLY important when you have to interact with a game..

So yeah, saying that 30 fps is ok is fair enough. Saying that 60fps is not better is ridiculous.

 

[TAJ]

21 pages for this?

I am honestly surprised. I guess this is what we are now.

Come on now... This is something that many people were mocked for suggesting was possible, the most high-profile example being Mr. Blow.

 

[SmokyDave]

I thought The Hobbit looked incredible at 48FPS. Made me wish more films were shot that way.

 

[Hyunashi]

Wow great job. Was expecting 30fps but this confirms my double-dip purchase for the definitive version.

 

[lexi]

Surely no-one said that. Right?

I think it's become a troll at this point -- I'm also certain that 'movie magic' guy is an elaborate troll.

I need to believe this.

 

[Alpende]

herewegoagain.jpg

 

[Ricky_R]

It's "definitive" version gold. Release date Jan 31st.

Oh my...

I mean... How technically demanding is this game? What would happen with a game like, say, The Witcher 3? If they shoot for RES/FPS parity (I think I read they are aiming for parity), how different will the IQ be then?

 

[enanogrande]

30FPS will Always Deliver Better Story-Telling than 60FPS in Games – Heres Why

.......

can you people finally drop this "60fps is better" nonsense​

What.

The Fuck.

Is THIS nonesense??

I leave for a couple of hours, and THIS is what you come up with GAF???

Spoiler

Beautiful XD

​

 

[allan-bh]

Because they paid $100 more for the console and MS's PR mouthpieces insisted all the way up to launch that they weren't going to 'let' Sony have a major hardware advantage?

People in general buy a console for play games of their choice, not for better resolution and frame rate.

 

[PodcastFips]

Surely no-one said that. Right?

There are many people claiming they can't see a difference between 30 and 60, even on here. Just look up the last few threads regarding FPS before the new consoles were released, you will find some.

(And just to be safe, this is not my point of view.)

 

[protonion]

XB1

PS4

I know which version I'm getting!

Spoiler

None

 

[jokuvain]

Lol at this thread. Played this at 1440p 60 fps. Masterrace etc... carry on

 

[pixlexic]

You mean 720p? Because dropping to 900p isn't enough to double the framerate.

Performance to specs is not linear. This game dips on the ps4 from 60 fps. I would expect if you lowered the xbone version to 900p the frame rates would be close. Just like assassins creed 4.

What's funny is that if they would have lowered it 900 on the xbone I don't think gaf would have reacted so harshly.

 

[plagiarize]

I thought The Hobbit looked incredible at 48FPS. Made me wish more films were shot that way.

I will straight up admit that it took me over an hour to get comfortable with it when I saw There and Back Again. I love 60 fps games and expected no disorientation, but there it was. Things looked weird and sped up... but after I got used to it, I loved it.

I had no such problem with Desolation of Smaug. From the first frame to the last.

For some people adjusting will take no time at all, and others I expect it'll take longer.

But we sure as shit aren't hard wired...

and 3D games PLAY better at higher framerates and resolutions. higher framerates improve the controls and our ability to track moving objects with our eyes. higher resolutions let us resolve more detail in the distance, and more readily identify threats and items of interest.

 

[Ricky_R]

Lol at this thread. Played this at 1440p 60 fps. Masterrace etc... carry on

On a $399 PC?

 

[air jordans for dogs]

Finally, someone makes some fucking sense. You are a god amongst men, bud.

This.. makes sense?

 

[dr_rus]

A shocking news. So unexpected. I mean, it was clear as day to everyone that 50% performance difference doesn't mean anything and everyone will just use XBO specs for coding leaving PS4 underperforming somehow because that'd take more work bla bla bla bla bla

1080p/30 is less surprising for X1 than 1080p/60 is for PS4.

I wonder how much compute work the game is doing and if it's a significant bit, if PS4's design is helping out a lot in terms of squeezing more work into less (vs PC). If that was the case it would be a very encouraging sign for the future.

What future? In a year from now GPUs will switch to 20nms and new architectures which will be more efficient than current ones which are already more efficient (well, NV's Kepler) than console's GCN.
There is no future where either XBO or PS4 can compete with PC GPUs in anything be it compute or rendering.
Consoles will always be consoles in terms of resources utilization of course.

 

[Kerub]

Lol at this thread. Played this at 1440p 60 fps. Masterrace etc... carry on

Relevant information.

 

[spekkeh]

XB1

PS4

I know which version I'm getting!

Spoiler

None

This hobby suddenly turned very expensive.

 

[ResidentDante]

XB1

PS4

I know which version I'm getting!

Top one is more boobiematic.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Lol at this thread. Played this at 1440p 60 fps. Masterrace etc... carry on

I'd edit that before you get banned.