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Trump energizes the anti-vaccine movement in Texas
- Thread starter Dalek
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It isn't mandatory in the US but the issue is that not vaccinating your kids puts them and everyone else in the line of fire for diseases that havent been a major threat in years.
Yes because doctors love seeing sick and dead children so they can make more money!
adamantypants
Member
I wanted to say, let natural selection take its course. But these kids aren't making the choice, their stupid fucking parents are
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
People that want money over ethics become acupuncturists, chiropractors, nutritionists, and naturopaths.
Waddle Dee
Member
This is why these "adults" who are anti-vax need to rot away.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
There's gotta be a better way than let them learn by having their kids die. IDK what, but something gotta happen.
iRAWRasaurus
Banned
The next head of the CDC! Can trump do that?
That's Andrew Wakefield.
perfectchaos007
Member
Once these kids get sick, their parents wont be able to afford their healthcare so most will die.
Can't we just tell them its the anti-gay vaccine?
They'll be fucking lining right up.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
damn you're probably right
Sure their kids get crippled for life by Polio instead
LegendofJoe
Member
This is untrue unfortunately. The article mentioned a private Waldorf school in Austin that has an unvaccinated rate of over 40%.
Elfotografoalocado
Banned
This may sound tough, but this is the definition of social Darwinism, and those people are the definition of asinine.
Rest of people, take care of having all the yearly shots and avoid antivaxxers.
Rest of people, take care of having all the yearly shots and avoid antivaxxers.
Zoe
Member
The problem is these people will be carriers of the diseases, but they'll have the means to save their children. The low-income baby they coughed on at the park won't have that luxury.
Reason Trump is scum # 4124213. Anti-Vaxxers are the worst. They're going to bring back horrible diseases and get hundreds of thousands killed. If you don't get your kids vaccinated, and don't have a medical excuse, you shouldn't be able to register your kids in public school. It's simply too much of a public health risk.
Tons, and there is no difference at all. Doesn't stop people from being stupid.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
didnt family guy have an episode about how stupid anti-vaxxers are
My father is a pediatrician, and this post offends me. Do you seriously think doctors want even more (deathly) sick children so they can make more fucking money?
I think this is being somewhat disingenuous and having this attitude towards their line of thought merely strengthens their resolve that they are right.
When someone boils down an argument to some extreme, it indicates you aren't paying attention to what their argument actually is.
They're not advocating or promoting death for kids. They're risk-assessing the dangers of the options. They happen to fall on a ridiculous side, where both the chances and potential outcome are more harmful than the other. So ridiculous, in fact that the side they goose to be on has basically zero possibility of happening.
But rather than ridicule and say they are advocating for the extreme outcome, i think it's more productive to at least educate not just scoff.
ShironRedshift
Member
Unfortunately, it's not, from what I understand. There have been studies on this. Trying to educate them about the benefits about vaccines and the studies debunking the autism-vaccine connection and shit just makes them dig their heels in even deeper and believe in the stuff even more firmly. Education/debate seems to be a no-go for these individuals, which makes the situation even more frustrating because there just doesn't seem to be any way to get through to these people at all.
Stop it. STOP IT.
No one is boiling down the argument to an extreme. Framing this as a debate is a huge fallacy.
There are facts. We show them the FACTS. That is not an ideological extreme.
Someone wants to debate that they don't have a social responsibility in regards to herd immunity, okay we can debate.
But if someone was to debate the effectiveness of vaccines? They are WRONG. Full stop. The facts and the expert opinions are overwhelming.
Aside - THE FACT THAT YOU CAN SEND YOUR KID TO SCHOOL WITHOUT VACCINATION BUT CANNOT SEND THEM TO SCHOOL WITH A PB&J SANDWICH, IS LITERALLY INSANE. I cannot deal with this shit anymore.
ImpracticalPassword
Member
I believe they're required in most states to send children to public schools but most states have a religious exemption (and some states have a personal belief exemption).
However, why would we leave that choice to people? Communicable diseases are a public health concern, not just a private one. I wouldn't advocate for a newly developed vaccine to be required (...unless we're experiencing a crazy pandemic that spreads easily and has a high mortality rate) but the childhood vaccines have been shown to be effective and safe through years and millions of administered doses. Giving parents a choice *by default* about polio and measles and the like? Egads, no. Not with how interconnected our world is through air travel. Maybe we could've felt ok about not having sufficient herd immunity if a disease was considered eradicated in North America BEFORE air travel became common. But it's foolish now.
Hate to tell you but Canada also has a growing anti-vax movement and a patchwork set of regulations concerning vaccinations? Granted, Canadians don't have a bunch of anti-science jerks running their government...
cascardian
Member
To anyone looking for sources on all the commonly cited debunked studies, papers, reviews etc., here is Ginger Taylor's somewhat famous list of the most commonly used thoroughly debunked literature that anti-vaxxers use to make their misinformed and hastily googled cases. I have encountered these literally everywhere, especially in places that seek to dissociate themselves from Wakefield, because knowledge of his disgraceful conduct has spread too far for comfort. You'll often find people citing reviews like Seneff 2012 instead, which is nothing but bunk and basically trying to sneak Wakefield in through the backdoor. And he is indeed used--among other colourful counterfactual researchers--in that particular instance as an ostensibly credible source.
I recommend following the Respectful Insolence science blog from Dr. David Gorski, surgical oncologist and managing editor/contributor for Science-Based Medicine, if anti-vaccine quackery concerns you. It appears that, thanks to the tangerine tyrant, it could become an issue in the public consciousness again and it helps to have the intellectual resources to fight against it.
I recommend following the Respectful Insolence science blog from Dr. David Gorski, surgical oncologist and managing editor/contributor for Science-Based Medicine, if anti-vaccine quackery concerns you. It appears that, thanks to the tangerine tyrant, it could become an issue in the public consciousness again and it helps to have the intellectual resources to fight against it.
Perhaps, but I don't think it's the way to go to just say they're advocating for their kids dying. That's not really the way to make them listen.
As you say, call them out for being wrong, but to saying they're wanting their kids to die just alienates your view from them.
Aztechnology
Member
There are kids at my mom's school who have had outbreaks of the Mumps. Every time another outbreak occurs any child who had been diagnosed "quarantine" time was reset. She's had kids out of school for over two months now.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Love this post. Been a long time Gorski fan.
Iorv3th
Member
But then they would just claim that the government got you and you only said it's fake because they threatened you. It's all a cover up man. Big conspiracy. Huge.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Here in Australia they basically said if your kid is unvaccinated they can't go to kindergarten or daycare. A few people freaked predictably, but sometimes I think that's the only way to ram home the importance of immunisation.
Sure. I have no problem saying "What you are advocating causes children to die"
And they still won't listen. I promise.
I agree,scum of the earth.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I've tried to educate several of these people. You can show them a million studies, the history of vaccines, and real life cases of what happens when people don't vaccinate. They don't fucking care and won't care until something really serious happens to them, their children or their immediate community. These people are proud of their ignorance and take any attempt, even a well meaning level headed one, to show them otherwise as an offense greater than spitting in their face.
They deserve ridicule because their entire thought process is ridiculous.
Edit: No one wants children to die but sometimes it takes getting burned by the fire to realize its dangerous and it seems that is the only recourse for some of these loons. The bigger issue though is that its not just the children of anti vaxxers that can and will get sick because of this. Its dangerous, its ignorant, and its selfish.
Will the Thrill
Banned
Surprised this didn't get posted
So many people will reject the piles and piles of evidence if it goes against their world view, and now a days there is always something on the internet that will "confirm" any belief. It took me a little while to convince my mom that it was bullshit, and she's usually always been pretty good about actually knowing the truth behind a lot of stuff like this
So many people will reject the piles and piles of evidence if it goes against their world view, and now a days there is always something on the internet that will "confirm" any belief. It took me a little while to convince my mom that it was bullshit, and she's usually always been pretty good about actually knowing the truth behind a lot of stuff like this
Choosing not to vaccinate your child because of an unproven statement that suggests vaccines are in some way linked to autism should be considered child abuse.
If you have a perfectly understandable reason not to vaccinate yourself or your children because of a rare condition that is potentially life threatening then your fine and it'll be up to healthy people in your community to vaccinate themselves for your safety.
VegaShinra
Junior Member
The irony being parents that have been vaccinated are willing to put their child in danger.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Then some will blame it on not "praying hard enough"
plagiarize
Banned
I'd make a joke about this, saying something like 'well, so long as the cities are vaccinated, that's fine by me' but the truth is herd immunity is so important because of the people who can't get vaccinated due to age or allergies... so I can't even joke about it really.
Case in point:
If we don't make it mandatory, then people like hypernima that have no choice but to stay unvaccinated have their lives put at risk based on anti science lies.
Case in point:
If we don't make it mandatory, then people like hypernima that have no choice but to stay unvaccinated have their lives put at risk based on anti science lies.
metalslimer
Member
We're about to have a nice measles outbreak in Texas and unless someone puts a break on the stupid exceptions parents can take than there is nothing that will stop it. Unfortunately children will have to die to stop this.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
When people would rather have cancer than have Obamacare....
When people would rather let their kids die than have autism....
When people hold literal parties for their kids to get diseases.....
When people would let their kids die to prove a point....
Yes. They are advocating for death.
BobTheFork
Member
I friend of mine with an Autistic daughter sent me this message.
" Benefits outweigh risks. Just like all medicine, there are risks"
He loves his daughter and never went looking for someone to blame.
" Benefits outweigh risks. Just like all medicine, there are risks"
He loves his daughter and never went looking for someone to blame.
Infinite Stars
Member
As someone on the spectrum, I can't even begin to understand the idea that risking your child's life is better then them possibly, through a bunch of ultra-fragile links that have been debunked but you still believe, developing autism.
Like, I don't know about other people on the spectrum but I do know about myself, and my mother swears that I didn't change upon getting them. Autism isn't this big boogeyman that completely wrecks your family(except for severe autism).
If anything is to be linked to Autism being more prevalent in the past century, it's probably a combination of actually having a term for it and the "Fuck it" impacts of chemical sprays/weapons until the 80s/90s. They're not bad, but I know cousins who have numerous health problems that can be traced back to Agent Orange during Vietnam.
Like, I don't know about other people on the spectrum but I do know about myself, and my mother swears that I didn't change upon getting them. Autism isn't this big boogeyman that completely wrecks your family(except for severe autism).
If anything is to be linked to Autism being more prevalent in the past century, it's probably a combination of actually having a term for it and the "Fuck it" impacts of chemical sprays/weapons until the 80s/90s. They're not bad, but I know cousins who have numerous health problems that can be traced back to Agent Orange during Vietnam.
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