Messofanego
Banned
Who has time for tone policing when it's your kid's health at risk? Call them out, and pull no punches. This isn't just some political difference of opinion.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Trump energizes the anti-vaccine movement in Texas
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
- Status
Who has time for tone policing when it's your kid's health at risk? Call them out, and pull no punches. This isn't just some political difference of opinion.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Ask yourself what Sandy Hook did for gun control. That's your answer.
Wag
Member
And the ones they're around depending upon the age.
Jaguar Victory
Member
Most day-cares won't let kids in without up to date immunization records. Schools used to be like that too. With Devos running shit though....
Escape Goat
Member
I work for a health insurance company and anti vaccers are everywhere here in Texas. Its not a small group of people who are opting out.
As mentioned, I think a better pro-vaccine message needs to be put tut there for sure. But just jumping to "your kid is going to die" is something they already don't believe, so towing that line is not going to convince them.
As BobtheFork has pointed out, I think a better message is to emphasise benefits outweighing risk, with the risk most likely actually being zero (for autism at least). In today's society there are lots of things we continue to use that actually has real life risks, yet we use them anyway, because the benefit far outweighs the dangers.
It's an uphill climb, but using "your kid is going to die, you like kids dying" line is about as effective in convincing them as they are to convincing you that vaccines cause autism.
To be sure, a lot of parents are just super cautious about their kids health, and are misinformed. Not all anti-vaccination believers are the far extreme - some just want to be more safe than sorry, and for them, it may only take that small discussion to let them know that vaccination IS the way to be more safe than sorry.
hans_castorp
Member
Here in Mexico you can't enroll your kids to any school or day care if you don't provide their vaccine card properly filled and as a proof that they are up to date.
LostCaress
Member
But if the risk of not vaccination really is death (and if enough kids don't get vaccinated there will be thousands of deaths), what are people supposed to say? Vaccinations prevent deaths and debilitating diseases. Risks are minimal (but real, like with most procedures). Facts won't convince them.
But as said, it's a risk. It's not an actual 100% certainty. The way people are arguing they make it sound like if you don't vaccinate, the kid will die. For people without the sense of population statistics, and logical thought pattern to be able to distinguish correlation for causation, which lets face it, is most people, a simple towing the line of an extreme case doesn't work.
"Advocating death" as a response to " ...causes autism!" is probably the typical anti-vaxxers equivalent saying that they think is ridiculous. I'm not trying to say let's have a reasonable argument about the sides, because there should be no side. But there has to be a better way to approach things than just two sides yelling the same things at each other.
Parents aren't going to care until they start seeing consequences.
Other than Flu deaths which is arguable whether the vaccine would have helped or not and those are primarily for the elderly. You have a much higher chance of winning the lottery than dying from not having vaccines.
Parents see practically 0 consequences with not vaccinating their kids.
Whether its the autism scare, the allergy scare or doctor telling you there's 1 in a million chance the baby could go brain dead (why does every vaccine come with this pre cursor?), they're all much higher chances than your child dying from one of the vaccine preventing diseases.
To the parents there's is no negative from not getting vaccines cause the chance of it affecting them is so low its like worrying about going outside because of lightning strikes.
They don't care or understand about hoard immunity. The numbers sadly support their claims. Probability wise they're just doing whats best for their kids.
Other than Flu deaths which is arguable whether the vaccine would have helped or not and those are primarily for the elderly. You have a much higher chance of winning the lottery than dying from not having vaccines.
Parents see practically 0 consequences with not vaccinating their kids.
Whether its the autism scare, the allergy scare or doctor telling you there's 1 in a million chance the baby could go brain dead (why does every vaccine come with this pre cursor?), they're all much higher chances than your child dying from one of the vaccine preventing diseases.
To the parents there's is no negative from not getting vaccines cause the chance of it affecting them is so low its like worrying about going outside because of lightning strikes.
They don't care or understand about hoard immunity. The numbers sadly support their claims. Probability wise they're just doing whats best for their kids.
No offense but I consider being a Anti Vaxxer as pretty god damned extreme, ignorant and petty. I consider these people not just a public nuisance, but a public danger. Again you keep making it out like the fact that their is a chance something could go bad as reason to not take them to task for their shitty beliefs but the problem is when that risk becomes reality then children, theirs and others, are growing sick or worse dying.
"bu-but big pharma!"
I'm unfortunately friends with people who are anti-vaccine. I feel sorry for the kids...
Those that are against vaccination isn't just single view point at the far end. There are those parents who simply just on the side of the fence and a little education can push them in the right direction. Towing an extreme line, even on the "right side" can serve to push them away.
For those that ARE on the extreme, there's no convincing them, so it's useful to not add fire to their arguments.
I'll admit that maybe the "hardline" approach is affective for some.
Smartest nation in the history of humanity, a man on the moon and this is what they have become. How you can be anti-vaccine I don't know, especially when time and time again there has proven to be no link between vaccination and autism. It isn't like they are forcing people to try some unproven vaccines either. Just crazy.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Does he still actually fucking say "tremendous"?! Even when the entire universe has made fun of him for it?!
But death is quite possible if someone is not vaccinated whereas there is absolutely no indication that vaccines cause autism, period.
edit:
I think I see what your saying in terms of packaging it as a pill people can swallow. But the stakes are high and very real, which is why so many talk about death off-the-bat.. because outbreaks and death can and will happen if there are large populations of people who aren't vaccinated. Look around the world.
http://www.npr.org/2013/09/01/217746942/texas-megachurch-at-center-of-measles-outbreak
Oh for sure, I'm not disagreeing with the facts. It's as ccbfan points out - the chances that YOUR kid will get some disease that you didn't vaccinate for AND will die from is pretty slim, especially in more developed countries where medical treatment is good. They're counting on not being a statistic, which is basically how a lot of people think anyway when they take risks - from driving without a seatbelt, driving drunk, smoking, or doing any equivalent of these things around kids, which do happen. And these things have much more direct consequences and direct lines of causation.
Certainly counting on not being a statistic in that sense is reckless and misses the big picture,so it's a shame that direct line of effect is not easily communicable to the general public.
Anti-vaccination people come in all shapes in sizes, from those that deny the benefits outright, accepts zero-evidence consequences as fact, from those that don't want to risk it, to those that are just ignorant on the facts, but are ready to learn.
Edit: I'm just going to add, on-topic, one of the best ways to communicate this kind of thing is for people in power, or high public view to promote vaccination. For sure you're still have those against those people to be against it, but that kind of publicity does wonders for chipping away at those "on the fence". In that vein, America, what are you doing?
What does this movement actually achieve for them? When parents deny their children vaccines what do they gain out of that, what is exactly different than giving your children vaccines? Surely they would just change their minds as soon as their children get sick?
Do anti-vaccine parents even bother taking their children to modern medicine facilities? Wouldn't that be giving in to modern medicine in the way vaccines prevent illnesses from you know, killing your children. It just hurts my brain too much.
Do anti-vaccine parents even bother taking their children to modern medicine facilities? Wouldn't that be giving in to modern medicine in the way vaccines prevent illnesses from you know, killing your children. It just hurts my brain too much.
SolarPowered
Member
This is bad. This is really, really bad. It's bad enough to have regular charismatic dumbasses spouting ignorance that can lead to public health problems. The leader of the free world spouting this sort of ignorant bullshit could cause a straight up pandemic.
TheAtomicPile
Member
They do not. Many take their children to chiropractors as a substitute for a pediatrician.
Your kid has a fever? Chiropractor. Seizures? Chiropractor. Ear infection? Chiropractor.
Chiropractors, homeopathic practitioners, shock therapists, aromatherapists, etc. have replaced pediatricians and family doctors for these people.
sturgboski
Member
I feel bad for the children. A new study came out from I want to say the FDA showing a lot illnesses and injuries caused from homeopathic teething rings and the like. If only we could round up all these folks and put them in some sort of hermetically sealed dome.
GAF A60-Rim A
Banned
Many people will die because of this.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Look.
The only one fucking saying that we're saying they like kids dying is you.
It's arguing in bad faith, and it's counter-productive. I can only assume that, at this point, all you care about is being right. Worse yet, "technically right".
I'm sure as shit that these people don't like kids dying.
But using that to further their belief system is not beyond them.
I have 100% no idea why the fuck you are defending the right to be misinformed. Because no matter how you phrase it, that is exactly what you are doing. This is some "Punching Nazis Gets Us Nowhere" bullshit.
Nah, not really. I don't really care about being right (no idea what you mean by "technically right"). People always seem so absolute is the the thing, without ever considering where opposing view come from.
You know, perhaps this is one of those things that you just can't argue. I'm not defending anything really. Just one of those things I felt like having a discussion about. I'm totally happy to end it here.
Fox Mulder
Member
Major outbreaks that kills tons of kids.
These views only float by because even stupid people are protected by the masses being vaccinated. These parents don't want kids to die, they're just fucking dumb.
I would not shed a single tear if they locked up Andrew Wakefield for life. He is a scumbag that started this for his own personal gain and has dozens of deaths or more on his shoulders. A true life scumbag.
I get so tired refuting fake crap my relatives read on Facebook. NOONE verifies stuff before reposting it, they just treat it as gospel. Just today I had to refute more diarrhea about how vaccines are causing peanut allergies because they have peanut products in them.
Even the author of the book these ding bats keep referencing said that they are totally Interpreting it incorrectly.
I get so tired refuting fake crap my relatives read on Facebook. NOONE verifies stuff before reposting it, they just treat it as gospel. Just today I had to refute more diarrhea about how vaccines are causing peanut allergies because they have peanut products in them.
they don't
Even the author of the book these ding bats keep referencing said that they are totally Interpreting it incorrectly.
TheAtomicPile
Member
Yes. What the U.S. needs is something like the "No jab no pay" law in Australia.
Because the Australian government tied vaccinations to access to thousands of dollars in child care benefits, they saw 200,000 more kids get vaccinated in just a year of the law being in place.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ay-for-your-childcare/?utm_term=.a37482f05fca
The main goal is obviously to protect children, but willfully negligent and / or ignorant parents should have to pay in some manner for the burden they place on the rest of the community and health system.
I know the feeling, I find their thought processes fascinating. But I would prefer the meeting to be in a scientific and regulated setting. That way they can be properly studied.
Messofanego
Banned
This is a good idea!
onadesertedisland
Member
Tie tax returns to vaccination. The only thing stupid people understand is money.
LucidMomentum
Member
SolarMystic
Member
We need federal laws that make vaccines for children mandatory or parents risk getting their children taken away and vaccinated anyways.
FUCK THIS SHIT. Why should other children suffer because repubtards are stupider than a rock.
Parents should be held accountable with 1st degree murder charges when they refuse to vaccinate their children.
FUCK THIS SHIT. Why should other children suffer because repubtards are stupider than a rock.
Parents should be held accountable with 1st degree murder charges when they refuse to vaccinate their children.
NorthAndSouth
Member
These idiots will not only kill their kids, but also get us all killed. Herd immunity can't last with this type of stupidity.
People in underdeveloped countries walk with their kids for DAYS to get access to vaccinations, because it has been PROVEN to be safe. Idiots here get these resources that can save hundreds of lives FOR FREE or at a REDUCED COST and they spout BS
People in underdeveloped countries walk with their kids for DAYS to get access to vaccinations, because it has been PROVEN to be safe. Idiots here get these resources that can save hundreds of lives FOR FREE or at a REDUCED COST and they spout BS
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked