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[BruiserBear]

Digital Foundry articles are going to be interesting next-gen.

Most definitely.

Do you honestly believe that MS will stop at paying devs?

Oh please.

 

[Marked_Bravado]

Joining Neogaf was a great call in my book. Been up on this reveal since last night. Won't find this info from the gaming press. You guys are amazing. Much kudos to you all who broke this news as well as those who helped explain the specifics behind the ramifications.

 

[bigboss370]

Xbone

From this:

to this:

so what you're saying is, from this:

to this:

?

 

[Village]

Out-smarted by Sony, apparently.

Sony ain't got shit to do with it.

Dumb decisions. That was it.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

For the peeps out there asserting that Microsoft might become enough of a market leader for this power discrepancy not to matter, and additionally, whom are making comparisons to the PS2.

Sony was already the market leader when they launched the PS2. Their only real competition in the previous generation was Nintendo, and sadly Nintendo made too many mistakes with the N64 to provide truly healthy competition to the PlayStation brand.

Microsoft, on the other hand, is only in third place globally, with the X-Box 360. The 360 has sold really well in America, but has sold fairly poorly everywhere else. This, despite the head start over the PS3, despite the price advantage over the PS3, and despite Sony's numerous mistakes with the PS3 launch and design.

Microsoft will not have any of those advantages this time, and does not currently have a marketshare that is analogous to the PlayStation 1 and 2. This is on top of the good will Microsoft has wasted these past few years, which has alienated much of the early adopters companies usually rely on to build up an install base early on.

This is not to say, that Microsoft cannot recover, but the situation is definitly not analogous to the PS2 launch. If Microsoft wants to bounce back, they'll have to utterly wow people with their launch line-up, and convince people that their products positives outweigh the negatives of its DRM.

In other words, Microsoft is likely to have a significantly harder time establishing a dominant market share in the United States, which will put them in a very difficult position globally.

Is anyone really arguing that? They had a one year head-start and are only just barely ahead of Sony in WW sales.

 

[demosthenes]

Do you honestly believe that MS will stop at paying devs and publishers?

Do you believe that MS will pay a dev/pub to make a game look worse on Playstation?

 

[Barack Lesnar]

I miss Allard.

also Peter Moore. If those two were still leading the Xbox division this wouldn't have happened. Maybe, who knows.

 

[Biker19]

Do you honestly believe that MS will stop at paying devs and publishers?

No, though most 3rd party publishers won't be blinded by money. MS also has their shareholders/investors to deal with, & they want Microsoft's gaming division to be profitable this time around, unlike with the OG Xbox & the Xbox 360.

 

[ElTorro]

Too much special sauce in XBone's APU.

 

[Proelite]

Late.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=535416

 

[BigDug13]

How are you arriving at that? Even if this did have a direct correlation to framerates, you're talking 4X the performance right there. Not the 2X being discussed here.

Yeah he's talking pure hyperbole. I can definitely see a future though where XBone games are toned down in graphics to reach 1080p 30hz while that same graphics could be boosted to 60 hz on PS4.

 

[flipswitch]

So.... I can't fix this one by wrapping it in a towel?

Wrapping it in a towel and hitting it with a shovel should do the trick.

 

[dancmc]

Out-smarted by Sony, apparently.

Well; at least didn't take console development for granted. I will be so disappointed if next gen games are truly going to be a lot worse on MS consoles....I do really like some of their IP and they do deserve to look their best (maybe a Windows 8 gaming PC will save me...probably not).

 

[BRUTALBOWN]

PS4/PC is the only way.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

What's that going to do though? Information these days does not just flow from gaming press. I mean look at all the leaks that have been occurring this year about the next gen consoles. Microsoft can throw money around all they want, the truth still finds a way. The internet has too many holes to plug with dollars.

But the information stays where MS want it to be. As long as their casual audience never sees it, it doesn't matter to them. The only people that suffer are those gamers who supported them for years and made them the success they are today in the gaming industry. They don't give a shit about us.

 

[maquiladora]

Won't find this info from the gaming press.

You won't, but the gaming press will find it here.

 

[Gestault]

Do you honestly believe that MS will stop at paying devs and publishers?

What does that have to do with tech comparisons between multi-platform titles?

 

[solarus]

probably in NA again, I hear NFL is big in those parts

For North America, I still think they'll take the lead in initial sales. Most people are just going to be looking for games period and getting things like the NFL hook-up only ensure MS intends to keep the mindshare.

I agree with this, in general Microsoft is much smarter in terms of marketing. They are going for the broadest strokes possible, I mean look at what they had when they announced the thing, COD, football, etc. In the end capturing the mindshare with big names like that associated with your console and a singular message that this thing is more than just a console could make it a huge success. I feel like Sony has learned their lesson from this gen however and is going to be just as aggressive in marketing hopefully.

 

[StevieP]

Every single quote there was speculation and educated guesses that anyone could have typed from scouring B3D or even here. Barely any specifics. You even linked a quote where you bolded where you said "it will have 8gb of ram"... in a thread about the same subject, and then used that post in your compilation. You don't have any sources. Even in this thread all you did was ape Thuway's rumor. "Yeah, my sources tell me the same"... durrr. And I'm not personally attacking you. Stop trying to spin this into a "personal attack" in an attempt to get someone in trouble. It's called questioning your already dubious credibility, which is perfectly fine to do in a medium like this.

No, man. No. I wasn't aping anything and they were clearly not "educated guesses" because they ended up being right. Where do you think thuway got the first private clarification that it was the ESram causing the most issues? Ask him. Enough with it.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

So.... I can't fix this one by wrapping it in a towel?

subtle, a touch of nostalgia, yet brilliant.

 

[4lejandro]

MS tried to use ESRAM to fix the low bandwidth of DDR3 to avoid the price of using GDDR5 & it only got them stuck in a technical shit storm that will only get worse as they try to get out of it.

Spot on, ace

Spoiler

not being condescending, I am 100% with you on your interpretation, also I always had wanted to call someone "ace" lol

 

[Alej]

They will moneyhat the bad yields, for sure.

 

[Drek]

3rd, being slightly less than the PS3. That isn't bad at all considering how crappy their hardware is.

Slightly less after having a one year head start and a lower MSRP all generation. Now we're talking about simultaneous launch or MS having to delay and both being built with similar silicon budgets (read: same bill of materials and likely same target MSRP for core model) and now MS is the one having fab problems, not Sony.

You can work around one big mistake, like shoddy hardware, or a crazy high initial MSRP, or a lack of system power. All three platforms last generation worked around one of these and used benefits in the other categories to do so. Microsoft might just go for the hat trick and be the most expensive, worst built, last to the party console.

 

[jaypah]

This sucks pretty bad. I never planned to buy an Xbox, I will fully support the playstation, but it sucks to think how this will affect multiplatforms games. It was already on edhe with 1.8 Tf vs 1.2. Now I'm thinking that game design will suffer from it and I don't mean something like lower resolution and effects. This is bad for all gamers no matter the platform of choice. I do not want the Xbox to be this weak even though I have no respect for Microsoft. I look at the bigger picture.

This is what I said yesterday. I can understand the hivefives amongst the SonyOnlys but as a 3 console owner (and PC) this is nothing to celebrate.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

No, though most 3rd party publishers won't be blinded by money. MS also has their shareholders/investors to deal with, & they want Microsoft's gaming division to be profitable this time around, unlike with the OG Xbox & the Xbox 360.

Not blinded by money?

That sounds unlikely.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Do you believe that MS will pay a dev/pub to make a game look worse on Playstation?

That's not how they'll approach it, no. They'll insist on parity, which will mean developers dumbing down PS4 games. Everyone will be held back by this if it takes hold, including PC gaming.

 

[PFD]

I wasn't excited about the nextbox. Oddly enough, this torrent of bad media has sparked my interest, now I wanna see how things will turn out for MS.

 

[kalidor]

Late.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=535416

Same idea, different result, but same result for the Xbox One

 

[DC1]

Sony ain't got shit to do with it.

Dumb decisions. That was it.

No... 50% of this is Sony. Competition is driving consumer questions; they need to ensure they have the best response that will not compromise themselves any further or contradict policy directives as they are now written.

 

[Seanspeed]

Do you honestly believe that MS will stop at paying devs and publishers?

This is something mostly objective and testable. Its not like reviews.

If Digital Foundry starts coming up with inaccurate results/comparisons, then somebody WILL be along to discredit them very quickly. It just wouldn't work.

 

[demosthenes]

That's not how they'll approach it, no. They'll insist on parity, which will mean developers dumbing down PS4 games.

So MS will pay them to dumb them down? I don't see MS doing that.

Why didn't Sony insist on parity this gen?

 

[Spongebob]

Late.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=535416

lol

 

[AstroZombie]

This is something mostly objective and testable. Its not like reviews.

If Digital Foundry starts coming up with inaccurate results/comparisons, then somebody WILL be along to discredit them very quickly. It just wouldn't work.

Republicans created Fox News, that did okay for them...

 

[BigDug13]

But won't their initial sales spike come crashing down if people realize they can't use their system offline and can't lend games to their friends? Then if they go to a friend's house and see a PS4 spitting fire in graphics form while offline from the internet with games that can be lent out, they won't be jealous?

How often are consoles returned to the store based on an overly restrictive feature-set?

 

[Brad Grenz]

I thought the PSP was originally downclocked in a firmware update because of battery life?

All PSP CPUs were rated to run at the full 333Mhz speed. For a while games were not allowed to run above 222MHz for battery life concerns on the early systems. Later, once battery capacity improved and the original hardware was handily outnumbered by later revisions that restriction was lifted. Any game that requires 333Mhz mode on PSP will run on every single model. That would not be the case if MS temporarily clocked Xbox One components lower with a plan to up them later. You'd just end up with games that can't run on launch models and/or games that make no use of the higher clocks in later versions.

 

[monkey666]

Slightly less after having a one year head start and a lower MSRP all generation. Now we're talking about simultaneous launch or MS having to delay and both being built with similar silicon budgets (read: same bill of materials and likely same target MSRP for core model) and now MS is the one having fab problems, not Sony.

You can work around one big mistake, like shoddy hardware, or a crazy high initial MSRP, or a lack of system power. All three platforms last generation worked around one of these and used benefits in the other categories to do so. Microsoft might just go for the hat trick and be the most expensive, worst built, last to the party console.

All good points. Still a good 5 months away to really see what happens.

 

[Htown]

Is crazy buttocks (jeezus) legit?...and not because he talks in code

cboat's posts have been something ridiculous like 95 percent accurate over his post history

I think the only "mistake" I can remember is that Remember Me ended up being multiplatform, and that maybe just changed at some point

 

[BPoole]

On cloudy days the XBone will be 10x more powerful than any other gaming platform so I don't see why this matter. MS could ship a black box with only an optical drive powered by teh clowd and it would still win

 

[Darkmakaimura]

Wow @ the Crazy Buttocks info. MS really digging themselves into a grave here, it seems. Halo 5 and 6 better be something spectacular.

 

[Biker19]

But the information stays where MS want it to be. As long as their casual audience never sees it, it doesn't matter to them. The only people that suffer are those gamers who supported them for years and made them the success they are today in the gaming industry. They don't give a shit about us.

That's not how they'll approach it, no. They'll insist on parity, which will mean developers dumbing down PS4 games. Everyone will be held back by this if it takes hold, including PC gaming.

Not blinded by money?

That sounds unlikely.

Just because a company has more money than other companies, doesn't mean that money will always work in their favor (see: Windows Zune, Windows Vista/8, Phone, Surface, Bing, etc).

3rd party publishers can easily ignore Microsoft, especially if the PS4 has a bigger install base worldwide.

 

[Htown]

Republicans created Fox News, that did okay for them...

Did it? How have those election results been turning out?

 

[Alucrid]

I can't believe people still doubt crazy buttocks.

 

[Proelite]

Wow @ the Crazy Buttocks info. MS really digging themselves into a grave here, it seems. Halo 5 and 6 better be something spectacular.

Only if 343 retains the talent they currently have.

 

[BRUTALBOWN]

I wanna see elemental running on a 900 Gflops chip at a native 720p! Go Xbox

 

[J-Rzez]

If this all plays out true, this maybe the WORST 3rd console curse to date.

It's amazing. Arrogance of MS. Production issues. "Power issues". And Sony apparently somehow catching them pants down. I'm surprised their leak didn't come forward from last gen which told MS that Sony would have 2x the RAM (albeit sep pools).

 

[makingmusic476]

For the peeps out there asserting that Microsoft might become enough of a market leader for this power discrepancy not to matter, and additionally, whom are making comparisons to the PS2.

Sony was already the market leader when they launched the PS2. Their only real competition in the previous generation was Nintendo, and sadly Nintendo made too many mistakes with the N64 to provide truly healthy competition to the PlayStation brand.

Microsoft, on the other hand, is only in third place globally, with the X-Box 360. The 360 has sold really well in America, but has sold fairly poorly everywhere else. This, despite the head start over the PS3, despite the price advantage over the PS3, and despite Sony's numerous mistakes with the PS3 launch and design.

Microsoft will not have any of those advantages this time, and does not currently have a marketshare that is analogous to the PlayStation 1 and 2. This is on top of the good will Microsoft has wasted these past few years, which has alienated much of the early adopters companies usually rely on to build up an install base early on.

This is not to say, that Microsoft cannot recover, but the situation is definitly not analogous to the PS2 launch. If Microsoft wants to bounce back, they'll have to utterly wow people with their launch line-up, and convince people that their products positives outweigh the negatives of its DRM.

In other words, Microsoft is likely to have a significantly harder time establishing a dominant market share in the United States, which will put them in a very difficult position globally.

Not to mention that supply constraints will ensure the ps4 has an install base advantage going into 2014.

If they're going up against a 50-100% more powerful competitor that has a lower price tag and a larger install base by mid to late 2014, they're in for a rough ride.

 

[OverBlood 3]

ucan remo.ve RUMUR frmo hte thread tittle TEAMMOD. esram yieldls. are "troubling"toput it lightly.

truthfact.


btw youiw lil not njhear abouthing about tech atMS E3 presentation. tech tarbaby (notracistst!) IS TSTICKIER THAN YOU WIL EVER KNOW. I LOOK FORWARF TO READING THE BOOK BY VENTUREBEAT.

theyMSrushed. --caughtoutbysonychangs. leadershitfailure.p.

Fucking hell, you think they would've learnt by now not to rush consoles ala rrod was due to rushing. The console will still probably sell well, consumers are ignorant.

 

[LtOrange]

Man this is crazy! I feel bad for Microsoft fans and really bummed if this has a effect on multiplatform games. I'm ready for the positive news to start flowing!

 

[Bluekaveli]

On cloudy days the XBone will be 10x more powerful than any other gaming platform so I don't see why this matter. MS could ship a black box with only an optical drive powered by teh clowd and it would still win

What in all of the hells?

Lol

 

[WolvenOne]

Not blinded by money?

That sounds unlikely.

3rd party developers these days, NEED the sales from a global release to make a solid return on a big budget triple A title. During this generation, that meant it had to release on both the X-Box 360, AND the Playstation 3. The 360 did really well in America, but its sales were anemic in most other markets. Thus, Microsoft literally could not offer third parties enough money to make their big titles X-Box 360 exclusives, or at least they couldn't by the time we reached the halfway point of this current generation.

I don't really see this situation changing any. It's possible the X-Bone may do well in America, but, its hard to see them dramatically outperforming the 360's sales in foreign markets. Thus, I simply have a hard time seeing Microsoft being able to moneyhat developers into releasing many X-Bone exclusives. At most, we might see timed exclusives, or early DLC, which was about all Microsofts deep pockets were able to buy during most the 360's lifespan.