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[xrnzaaas]

Now that Turn10 listened to the fan complaints to get rid of some negativism, what are the odds that Polyphony does the same and adds a campaign mode to Gran Turismo Sport?

It will depend entirely on sales and on the data they'll gather on which modes are people playing. I expect a proper campaign mode to eventually appear in GTS, but knowing PD it'll take some time before it happens (Christmas 2018? ).

 

[TripleBee]

Glad they made the change.

Now all they need to do is never charge for lootboxes and lower the in-game currency requirements for them.

 

[Luckydog]

Glad they made the change.

Now all they need to do is never charge for lootboxes and lower the in-game currency requirements for them.

Playing devils advocate here.....

What if they never allow real money for loot boxes (always in game currency) BUT

They still allow the purchase of tokens that can be used for cars in the same way they have had it the last few Forza's

 

[Papo Swing]

Man, some people in this thread need to step out into the real world to see how it works.

I like that the fan pressure changed this, but they will never take away loot boxes, why would they? This is how gaming will work from now on.

If anything we should maybe throw the counter that if they want loot boxes they should make the entry price free? But that is another worse slippery slope. Just live with it and don't buy them. It is the best case.

 

[jelly]

Man, some people in this thread need to step out into the real world to see how it works.

I like that the fan pressure changed this, but they will never take away loot boxes, why would they? This is how gaming will work from now on.

If anything we should maybe throw the counter that if they want loot boxes they should make the entry price free? But that is another worse slippery slope. Just live with it and don't buy them. It is the best case.

Remember online passes, always online. Never accept things as inevitable. I agree, don't buy them and go further, don't buy the game.

 

[Rmagnus]

Man, some people in this thread need to step out into the real world to see how it works.

I like that the fan pressure changed this, but they will never take away loot boxes, why would they? This is how gaming will work from now on.

If anything we should maybe throw the counter that if they want loot boxes they should make the entry price free? But that is another worse slippery slope. Just live with it and don't buy them. It is the best case.

Does the real world you live in sell clothes in bags which you can't see and hope you buy a bag of clothes you like?

 

[SmartWaffles]

Now that Turn10 listened to the fan complaints to get rid of some negativism, what are the odds that Polyphony does the same and adds a campaign mode to Gran Turismo Sport?

Well it took them nearly two years to implement a track editor which was promised pre-launch to GT6...

 

[spideydouble]

I'm getting the biggest case of dejavu I've had in a long time. Didn't they make like the exact same comments in response to "fan feedback" before?

Bingo! This seems like more gaslighting and “come back to Ike” routine. No real acknowledgment of wrongdoing. No remourse. Alan Hartman is sorry fans were confused. Turn 10 is innocent and misunderstood. Maybe this guy thinks he is a lawyer because he signs all the Turn 10 contracts and his ego wrote another check his real lawyers couldn’t cash. If real Microsoft lawyers reviewed and approved the product description change, they should be fired for legal malpractice and a formal complaint should be filed with their sanctioning BAR organizations for permanent or temporary suspension.

Forza fans should do some soul searching whether it’s time to move on or whether it’s worth it to stay in this abusive relationship. Psychology professionals usually advise to get out and go no contact. We’re not Turn 10 employees and we don’t have children with these narcissistic abusers, so there’s no need to continue to expose ourselves to continued manipulation and pain and suffering and fake a smile like Melania Trump. Life is too short. Remove toxic people and toxic companies from your lives.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

How about they listen to fan feedback and give us FFB derived from self-aligning torque from the tires and transformed by actually modeled individual steering and suspension geometry?

And FoV option at least on PC like every other game on that platform that calls itself sim?

 

[Outrun]

Wonderful...

But can you please note repeat this bs in forza 8?

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Wonderful...

But can you please note repeat this bs in forza 8?

they will try again ....

 

[Luckydog]

they will try again ....

Was bad in 5. I didnt feel it was bad in 6. Bad in 7. Hopefully we are safe till 9.

 

[jelly]

I fear what they'll do to Horizon 4.

 

[Fox Mulder]

they will try again ....

Sure, but it seems like every game with loot crates causes a storm.

I was only mad about the VIP getting fucked. I've yet to really see how loot crates are ruining the game as I'm progressing as I always do. They're just obnoxiously designed to be in your face at every opportunity but I don't feel compelled to use them.

 

[NullPointer]

Sure, but it seems like every game with loot crates causes a storm.

I was only mad about the VIP getting fucked. I've yet to really see how loot crates are ruining the game as I'm progressing as I always do. They're just obnoxiously designed to be in your face at every opportunity but I don't feel compelled to use them.

At least for my tastes you've already covered it.

 

[Ogawa-san]

How does this solve anything for base game users?

VIP access is extra paid content.

It really is odd that everyone is up in arms about the loot box thing but no one bats an eye about you being able to straight up buy a double credits perk for $20.

How do you even balance the game around that? Do VIPs get credits too fast, or do plebs get them too slowly?

 

[Diablohead]

I'd be fine with loot crates giving chances for rare cards and mods IF it was not so intergrated into the core game, when you hear about people saying that the game verbally speaks to you about buying loot boxes then they have gone too far.

 

[amdb00mer]

Here is what I think Turn 10 should do. We all know the loot, err prize crates, are here to stay. I'm ok with them starting to allow people to use real money for the crates, but the following fixes are needed.

1. Fix VIP - done
2. Add back credit bonuses based on disabled assists
3. No over-grinding or paywalls to reach car tiers
4. Allow for specific mods to be bought outright with game credits
5. State clearly what win rates are for the specific prize crates

Do these things, then gamers can fairly earn credits like they did before and buy the cars and special mods/gear they want. And for those players that simply want a shortcut, they can spend real money to buy crates, to try and win cars or special mods/gear.

I would be ok with this setup.

 

[watdaeff4]

Now that Turn10 listened to the fan complaints to get rid of some negativism, what are the odds that Polyphony does the same and adds a campaign mode to Gran Turismo Sport?

It's easier to change the VIP than add a campaign mode.

I wouldn't hold your breath

 

[jesu]

Does the real world you live in sell clothes in bags which you can't see and hope you buy a bag of clothes you like?

There is a website that does a loot crate type thing for clothes actually.

 

[LiK]

Great job.

 

[Trup1aya]

Man, some people in this thread need to step out into the real world to see how it works.

I like that the fan pressure changed this, but they will never take away loot boxes, why would they? This is how gaming will work from now on.

If anything we should maybe throw the counter that if they want loot boxes they should make the entry price free? But that is another worse slippery slope. Just live with it and don't buy them. It is the best case.

I hate the notion that lootboxes are better in a f2p game than a paid game. I feel like the cost of entry isn't the issue at all.

The REAL issue is enjoyment being locked behind a grind wall/ that is only alleviated if you spend $. Making a game f2p is only going to motivate the developer to increase the grind further because the MTs are their only source of income.

If Forza was a free game, then you'd probably have to get fuel out of a lootbox or some BS like that.

I think lootboxes and paid games can coexist in harmony if developers can resist the urge to pressure their players in to buying them by limiting gameplay. Few have been able to do that this far.

 

[SmartWaffles]

It really is odd that everyone is up in arms about the loot box thing but no one bats an eye about you being able to straight up buy a double credits perk for $20.

How do you even balance the game around that? Do VIPs get credits too fast, or do plebs get them too slowly?

In the past games the double bonus of VIP is almost irrelevant, you earn credits insanely fast already. And I don't remember how VIP works in earlier games but at least in Horizon 3, VIP ONLY affects the level up wheelspin rewards, the credits earned through racing is the same for regular and VIP players.

In FM7 though, base credits earnings are now only affected by AI difficulty (and length just like before), so for regular players without the bonus from disabling assists, earning credits is a lot slower, so you pretty much have to use mods from crates. Although, the high level mods crate only cost 50k to buy and you can almost always get the 50k back from just a single race so in reality it's not a big issue as people claimed.

 

[Fredrik]

It will depend entirely on sales and on the data they'll gather on which modes are people playing. I expect a proper campaign mode to eventually appear in GTS, but knowing PD it'll take some time before it happens (Christmas 2018? ).

Bah don't be so negative. Considering that GTS is a reboot I don't think they can wait that long to fix things if it's their core fans that are complaining, and I think if the complaints finds their way into the reviews too we might see things change faster. I'm sure they're listening att all this talk tbh, Turn10 was silent too before coming with this change.

 

[jongkookie]

This is the crux of Jim Sterlings argument - be jubilant, but stay vigilant. Never take listen to those who try to silence you calling out shit when you see it.

Lol people are blinded here. Somebody called me a drama queen in the main thread for criticizing their response to the situation.

It’s why no matter how much shit Jim stirs, more often than not, nothing happens... people are okay with taking a stick up their ass for some reason.

In Forza’s case, the number of refunds, vitriol, and media coverage escalated it and T10 was forced to address it head on a second time.

 

[ebullientprism]

"We thought we could get away with ripping people off but the shitstorm isnt worth it. So for now we are backing off a little."

 

[Paladin CL]

Glad that people are being listen but at the same time I feel that once more Forza will throw me too much credits to kill any sense of achievement of getting the cars I want.

 

[spideydouble]

I mean if the outcry is loud enough, maybe they’ll learn? What else can we do? I couldn’t refund my game in time. I was out there doing Ram runs like an idiot.

Refund in time? What time limit? This is simply damage control to stem the flow of refund requests and potential regulatory action. You are still legally entitled to a return/full refund due to the initial fraudulent inducement to buy the game based on false advertising. This "peace offering" of 1,000,000 CR, 4 additional FE cars and return of permanent 2x CR rewards doesn't erase the lies and initial theft. It doesn't compensate for your time spent grinding without the advertised VIP buff or time wasted trying to get a refund or unjust emotional distress.

Contact your seller and demand a refund based on the initial fraud. If they refuse, contact your credit card company and dispute the charge and/or demand a refund through the FTC or your State AG.

Unless Turn 10 also adds back the assist difficulty bonus CR, they've still made this a free to play game with a $60 entry fee.

 

[Fredrik]

It’s why no matter how much shit Jim stirs, more often than not, nothing happens... people are okay with taking a stick up their ass for some reason.

I never complained about the loot box issue because I honestly never understood the problem since I made plenty of money just by playing the campaign, restarting races after losses, tuning and testing cars etc. Granted I haven't bought the most expensive cars yet but I have a ton of cash just sitting there. I guess once you start going for 100% it'll be a bigger issue but from my perspective the complaints seems overblown, I suspect that's the case for many others too.

 

[Luckydog]

Refund in time? What time limit? This is simply damage control to stem the flow of refund requests and potential regulatory action. You are still legally entitled to a return/full refund due to the initial fraudulent inducement to buy the game based on false advertising. This "peace offering" of 1,000,000 CR, 4 additional FE cars and return of permanent 2x CR rewards doesn't erase the lies and initial theft. It doesn't compensate for your time spent grinding without the advertised VIP buff or time wasted trying to get a refund or unjust emotional distress.

Contact your seller and demand a refund based on the initial fraud. If they refuse, contact your credit card company and dispute the charge and/or demand a refund through the FTC or your State AG.

Unless Turn 10 also adds back the assist difficulty bonus CR, they've still made this a free to play game with a $60 entry fee.

Why? You can just turn up the Drivatar difficulty a bit and its essentially the same thing. Not as granular. But instead of turning of 3-4 things to get 60% benefit, you can just turn up the drivatars.....

 

[GeordieMark]

Refund in time? What time limit? This is simply damage control to stem the flow of refund requests and potential regulatory action. You are still legally entitled to a return/full refund due to the initial fraudulent inducement to buy the game based on false advertising. This "peace offering" of 1,000,000 CR, 4 additional FE cars and return of permanent 2x CR rewards doesn't erase the lies and initial theft. It doesn't compensate for your time spent grinding without the advertised VIP buff or time wasted trying to get a refund or unjust emotional distress.

Contact your seller and demand a refund based on the initial fraud. If they refuse, contact your credit card company and dispute the charge and/or demand a refund through the FTC or your State AG.

Unless Turn 10 also adds back the assist difficulty bonus CR, they've still made this a free to play game with a $60 entry fee.

If any of this has anyone caused genuine emotional distress, Forza is the least of their worries. You’re exaggerating when you call it a free to play game. It’s nothing of the sort.

The VIP shenanigans were shitty, and you’re right, the T10 response is damage control, but the rest is a bit OTT.

 

[spideydouble]

No, "core progression" is not hindered, and yes, 2X CRs is an impactful change.

Removing assist difficulty bonus CR doesn't hinder "core progression"? How much do they pay you to say such absurd and ridiculous lies?

While, return of permanent VIP 2x CR is an impactful change, all it does is put something back in the game that was advertised and always there to begin with. It is damage control pure and simple. Creation of a subsequent remedial measure for regulators and courts.

 

[Head.spawn]

I mean if the outcry is loud enough, maybe they'll learn? What else can we do? I couldn't refund my game in time. I was out there doing Ram runs like an idiot.

Call in, they'll probably give you a one-off refund. They are quite flexible.

 

[Trup1aya]

Glad that people are being listen but at the same time I feel that once more Forza will throw me too much credits to kill any sense of achievement of getting the cars I want.

Wouldn't it be neat if the structure was such that the achievement came from winning races. And the reward of winning would be the ability to purchase the cars you want- without arbitrary limitations aimed to push you to gamble and spend real money

 

[jongkookie]

I never complained about the loot box issue because I honestly never understood the problem since I made plenty of money just by playing the campaign, restarting races after losses, tuning and testing cars etc. Granted I haven't bought the most expensive cars yet but I have a ton of cash just sitting there. I guess once you start going for 100% it'll be a bigger issue but from my perspective the complaints seems overblown, I suspect that's the case for many others too.

You’re right there’s sort of a way to go around the loot boxes but the issue here is that the loot boxes are inherently built in to the game, essentially requiring a majority of players to buy one, especially when you’ve got voice overs in the game telling you to buy this or that.

Really it’s the principle of requiring the loot boxes in the game when previous games only had it as an extra for when you really didn’t wanna do the grind. What it tells a majority of the fans is that this is the future of Forza, so if you’re okay with that, then more power to you. Frankly, a lot of the major fans including myself aren’t okay with it, hence why we’re still up in arms about it even though they’ve offered some concessions.

This doesn’t even include the other things like the lack of a time trial, homologation nonsense, and locking the cars behind a tier.

 

[Mutagenic]

"We thought we could get away with ripping people off but the shitstorm isnt worth it. So for now we are backing off a little."

Fuck over player base. Apologize and revert system. Everyone credits you for listening and caring about customers. Amazing.

 

[Fox Mulder]

In the past games the double bonus of VIP is almost irrelevant, you earn credits insanely fast already. And I don't remember how VIP works in earlier games but at least in Horizon 3, VIP ONLY affects the level up wheelspin rewards, the credits earned through racing is the same for regular and VIP players.

VIP in earlier games gave a pretty great pack of exclusive cars as well. Forza 7 just gives you Forza Edition modified cars that already exist in the game.

 

[spideydouble]

Considering the fact that this is currently "legal" do you believe that as a first step it should be regulated?

Gambling is regulated. Gambling with minors is illegal. DraftKings and FanDuel have had many recent actions. Gambling in video games is still relatively new and off the radar of most regulators. All we are waiting on is a few precedent setting opinions from the high courts and/or regulatory action. Microsoft may have just volunteered to be the test case.

Making a profit is one thing, targeting addictions and addictive personalities is greed because, ultimately, that's where this ends up and the sooner it's accepted as gambling the better off people will be. Forza 7 is rated 3+ by PEGI. There's Pokemon games with a 12+ rating because of casinos in the game because gambling carries a minimum 12 rating on the PEGI system because loot boxes and the like aren't seen as gambling.

This ^

Least this change means VIP owners get what they were originally advertised/sold.

Regards loot boxes I doubt any dev/pub will undo that on a current game. Indeed as my last comment on this I'd love to see legislation where loot boxes are considered gambling and automatically requires a higher certification (18+ basically as per other legal forms of gambling IIRC) as well as others have said regards publishing loot drop values.

ps3ud0 8)

Consideration + chance + prize = illegal gambling/lottery. Using in-game currencies to purchase the chance to win in-game prizes constitutes gambling. Even sweepstakes collecting solely contact information to notify winners are required by law to disclose odds of winning. They are also required by law to offer a free alternate method of entry if consideration is involved in any way.

 

[Metzhara]

Playing devils advocate here.....

What if they never allow real money for loot boxes (always in game currency) BUT

They still allow the purchase of tokens that can be used for cars in the same way they have had it the last few Forza's

I would still have an issue with this.
The issue isn't the use of tokens, mods, or even loot boxes for me. The problem is you can "feel' the intention to force even "better than average" players to feel that they can either enjoy the game by purchasing these loot boxes or go through an MMORPG style grind of epic proportions.
The problem is that the balance is off. I don't say this as someone who is historically against loot crates etc. I am absolutely ok with them. To say they are a slippery slope though is an understatement. With many of the interesting (and I would have to say IMPROVED) additions to Forza 7, Forza 6 never felt that you HAD to use Mods. When you did, you'd have a few lying around and you could enhance your experience (either to make your race more interesting or maybe to make it difficult for one race to test out the waters.) In Forza 6 Mods felt like a really cool way to elicit racers to try something new with only minor risk, making enjoyment paramount. Yes, you could use real money to purchase more packs, but you had "some" and for those people it worked well. You wanted to earn EVEN MORE, sure, pick up some more mods.
In Forza 7, MUCH of this also centers around the removal of the race preferences removing credit bonuses. In doing this, you say, "that extra income for trying harder things... GONE." (It should be noted they kept the drivatar bonuses but with the inclusion that it's also faulty in that drivatar aggression is turned off so it's really a minimal change for little payoff.)
I won't shit all over the game. It has some cool improvements. Those people that say that everything is tuned to the loot system however are absolutely right. Even those cool improvements all aim to dump money into the system. I don't care developers want to get as much money as possible, that's their bread and butter. I just care when it feels decisions are made to undermine the fact people purchase the content at all. And in this case, being a Ultimate Edition purchaser (physical at that), man... the list of shortcomings is high.

 

[Luckydog]

I would still have an issue with this.
The issue isn't the use of tokens, mods, or even loot boxes for me. The problem is you can "feel' the intention to force even "better than average" players to feel that they can either enjoy the game by purchasing these loot boxes or go through an MMORPG style grind of epic proportions.
The problem is that the balance is off. I don't say this as someone who is historically against loot crates etc. I am absolutely ok with them. To say they are a slippery slope though is an understatement. With many of the interesting (and I would have to say IMPROVED) additions to Forza 7, Forza 6 never felt that you HAD to use Mods. When you did, you'd have a few lying around and you could enhance your experience (either to make your race more interesting or maybe to make it difficult for one race to test out the waters.) In Forza 6 Mods felt like a really cool way to elicit racers to try something new with only minor risk, making enjoyment paramount. Yes, you could use real money to purchase more packs, but you had "some" and for those people it worked well. You wanted to earn EVEN MORE, sure, pick up some more mods.
In Forza 7, MUCH of this also centers around the removal of the race preferences removing credit bonuses. In doing this, you say, "that extra income for trying harder things... GONE." (It should be noted they kept the drivatar bonuses but with the inclusion that it's also faulty in that drivatar aggression is turned off so it's really a minimal change for little payoff.)
I won't shit all over the game. It has some cool improvements. Those people that say that everything is tuned to the loot system however are absolutely right. Even those cool improvements all aim to dump money into the system. I don't care developers want to get as much money as possible, that's their bread and butter. I just care when it feels decisions are made to undermine the fact people purchase the content at all. And in this case, being a Ultimate Edition purchaser (physical at that), man... the list of shortcomings is high.

It's loot boxes in general that piss me off, not so much the tokens. I never felt 6 was a grind that forced me to use real money to buy cars. But the idea of using real money for a "chance" to win is dirty. At least at a casino the odds are widely available. it could be a Billion - 1 shot to get a legandary car from a loot crate and we wouldnt know.

 

[Fredrik]

You’re right there’s sort of a way to go around the loot boxes but the issue here is that the loot boxes are inherently built in to the game, essentially requiring a majority of players to buy one, especially when you’ve got voice overs in the game telling you to buy this or that.

Really it’s the principle of requiring the loot boxes in the game when previous games only had it as an extra for when you really didn’t wanna do the grind. What it tells a majority of the fans is that this is the future of Forza, so if you’re okay with that, then more power to you. Frankly, a lot of the major fans including myself aren’t okay with it, hence why we’re still up in arms about it even though they’ve offered some concessions.

This doesn’t even include the other things like the lack of a time trial, homologation nonsense, and locking the cars behind a tier.

I understand what you're saying I just tried to explain why some people might not have seen it as such a big problem, at least for me it's not about being okay with it it's just that the complications from the new system hasn't really showed themselves yet the way I play the game.

 

[spideydouble]

Microsoft apparently entangled Amazon and GameStop in their fraud to update the Forza Motorsport 7 VIP product description with the 5 card limitation. I hope Amazon and GameStop had full indemnity for the request. I wonder how quickly Microsoft can convince them to change it back given Alan Hartman's A Letter to the Forza Community?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B074MVM5HM/?tag=neogaf0e-20

Forza Motorsport 7 VIP membership features exclusive rewards you can't get anywhere else! Forza Motorsport VIPs receive exclusive VIP cars, VIP Driver Gear Suits, as well as five 100% CR bonus Mod cards (five uses each per card), and more. Get your VIP membership today!

https://m.gamestop.com/product/add-ons/forza-motorsport-7-vip-pass/149883

Forza Motorsport 7 VIP membership features exclusive rewards you can't get anywhere else! Forza Motorsport VIPs receive exclusive VIP cars, VIP Driver Gear Suits, as well as five 100% CR bonus Mod cards (five uses each per card), and more. Get your VIP membership today!

Best Buy couldn't be bothered to update their description.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/forza-...download-add-on/1000009071.p?skuId=1000009071

Exclusive cars, Mods, Driver Gear, and more await with Forza Motorsport 7 VIP membership! Forza Motorsport 7 VIP members receive exclusive VIP cars. VIPs will receive additional benefits including 100 CR bonus Mods, VIP Driver Gear, and more. Get your VIP membership today!

 

[Hawk269]

Bingo! This seems like more gaslighting and ”come back to Ike" routine. No real acknowledgment of wrongdoing. No remourse. Alan Hartman is sorry fans were confused. Turn 10 is innocent and misunderstood. Maybe this guy thinks he is a lawyer because he signs all the Turn 10 contracts and his ego wrote another check his real lawyers couldn't cash. If real Microsoft lawyers reviewed and approved the product description change, they should be fired for legal malpractice and a formal complaint should be filed with their sanctioning BAR organizations for permanent or temporary suspension.

Forza fans should do some soul searching whether it's time to move on or whether it's worth it to stay in this abusive relationship. Psychology professionals usually advise to get out and go no contact. We're not Turn 10 employees and we don't have children with these narcissistic abusers, so there's no need to continue to expose ourselves to continued manipulation and pain and suffering and fake a smile like Melania Trump. Life is too short. Remove toxic people and toxic companies from your lives.

Give it a fucking rest already dude. Get off of your high horse and go play some games. T10 changed something that consumers were not happy with. Abusive relationship? WTF is wrong with you? I have been a fan of the series since the day the original game came out, no way to do I feel "abused". If anything is toxic is your repeated posts with the same fucking agenda of trying to be so righteous. How many threads are you going to continue to push your "MS is the devil" agenda with all this "it's illegal" bullshit?

 

[spideydouble]

Give it a fucking rest already dude. Get off of your high horse and go play some games. T10 changed something that consumers were not happy with. Abusive relationship? WTF is wrong with you? I have been a fan of the series since the day the original game came out, no way to do I feel "abused". If anything is toxic is your repeated posts with the same fucking agenda of trying to be so righteous.

Something that consumers were not happy with? It was illegal!. It's nice you in no way feel "abused", I can't say the same for myself. Are you now the designated official spokesman for fans of the series? My repeated posts are toxic? Are you toxic?

 

[Neizel]

This shouldn't be a thing in the first place.

Even worse, this was the same in Forza 5 and they just went "let's try to fuck everyone and wait if it works" again.

Shame on you Turn10 and Microsoft.

 

[spideydouble]

As many threads as it takes until apologists like you go away and the gaslighting stops. xoxo

 

[Metzhara]

It's loot boxes in general that piss me off, not so much the tokens. I never felt 6 was a grind that forced me to use real money to buy cars. But the idea of using real money for a "chance" to win is dirty. At least at a casino the odds are widely available. it could be a Billion - 1 shot to get a legandary car from a loot crate and we wouldnt know.

I definitely didn't have issue with Tokens. If anything, I thought they were OBVIOUSLY a terrible choice. Some of those cars required ungodly amounts of tokens. I think I only ever purchased one car with tokens and it was that I already had some (probably through my VIP) and said, "Eh, I'll just buy this particular Lamborghini."

While I do not inherently have issue with loot boxes on their own, I would definitely agree the "odds of obtaining" should be displayed. But my issue with that is also that with physical cards (eg baseball/comic/magic cards) you have a finite amount of that object to determine that it really is X of Y chance. In this case, being digital, we're hoping to know the odds of a "legendary" which was branded as such by people who chose to call it "legendary" in the first place. That part definitely doesn't sit right with me mostly because I never felt the classification had anything to do with frequency (like it should) and more as a way to elicit artificial drive to obtain that object.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Lootboxes, VIP bullshit, and now the game won't launch. Great week they're having.