Banderdash
Member
I'm glad this got sorted before the One X launched as I've been holding off on buying it till then.
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Turn 10 announce Forza Motorsport 7 VIP changes after negative fan feedback
- Thread starter Fortinbras
- Start date
Least this change means VIP owners get what they were originally advertised/sold.
Regards loot boxes I doubt any dev/pub will undo that on a current game. Indeed as my last comment on this I'd love to see legislation where loot boxes are considered gambling and automatically requires a higher certification (18+ basically as per other legal forms of gambling IIRC) as well as others have said regards publishing loot drop values.
ps3ud0 8)
Regards loot boxes I doubt any dev/pub will undo that on a current game. Indeed as my last comment on this I'd love to see legislation where loot boxes are considered gambling and automatically requires a higher certification (18+ basically as per other legal forms of gambling IIRC) as well as others have said regards publishing loot drop values.
ps3ud0 8)
GHG
Member
So you feel the need to open the 20k lootbox regularly in order to make progress but yet you argue that the game isn't designed around the lootboxes?
JackAubrey
Member
Replying here for other forum users, you don't likely care what my actual position is.
I feel that the regular in game rewards are quite generous and without opening loot crates progress is easily made. I feel not actual need or requirement to open loot crates.
However there exists a loot crate that is essentially exactly the same as a mod-pack from FM6. In that it is guaranteed to be just a set of mod cards. There's no gamble here really, unlike the big crates, you know what you're getting, some mod cards.
And these cards do boost your income. It's not a gamble it's merely a decision to say, I'll have some more credits thanks. These mod cards also have a gameplay element too - they are little challenges to be completed in races. So they are a fun little thing with the chance of a few more pretend monies.
They keep trying it until people stop pointing it out.
Reminds me of Scooby Doo villains
Turn 10: I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids
IISANDERII
Member
You don't need to play one second of a game to know what the long term intentions are of a developer who implements Skinner box economies.
R_thanatos
Member
This is a reaction , yes ..
but how about you get rid of those loot boxes and give a VIP membership like before ?
How about that ?
but how about you get rid of those loot boxes and give a VIP membership like before ?
How about that ?
MajorPoopStorm
Banned
Wait... What about pubic drift lobby? That's the only reason I pay $100 for this game.
GHG
Member
It's pretty simple really. To get mods you need to open loot boxes. Many of the mods give credit boosts, replacing the credit boosts you used to get for driving with various assists off. As such, you get trapped in a cycle of using mods (which are consumable) to earn more credits to open more loot boxes, to earn more credits, etc.
You are trapped in that very cycle, but yet you're trying to argue that the game isn't designed around loot boxes?
If the game wasn't designed around loot boxes there would be an in game shop where you can purchase mods using in game credit instead of having to gamble with credits in the hope that you get the mod you want that fits your play style. The same goes for the driver gear and the cars that are currently locked away from being purchased.
RoninChaos
Member
Yeah exactly. I became a Forza fan with the horizon series and was going to buy 7 but this loot box shit stopped me in my tracks. I can't support this kind of thing.
This is good, those changes were incredibly stupid to begin with.
The market works this way because not enough people speak up, not because it's a necessary way of business. It's especially egregious when they take something that was permanent, like VIP passes, and make them a consumable. It's the same bullshit with Destiny 2 and the shaders. It would different if these things were consumable from the start but that's not the case here. I also understand why companies are adding loot boxes and don't necessarily despise them if handled right. I'm OK with them if they are balanced right and especially if they are a way to provide free DLC. I was fine with the system in both Mass Effect 3 and Halo 5 because even non-paying players benefitted. However gain that's not what's happening in Forza 7. Not only are we not getting free DLC but they changed how you earn credits to push this loot box system.
There is a right way to treat your users while while managing budget demands and there's a wrong way. They certainly went about this the wrong way.
The market works this way because not enough people speak up, not because it's a necessary way of business. It's especially egregious when they take something that was permanent, like VIP passes, and make them a consumable. It's the same bullshit with Destiny 2 and the shaders. It would different if these things were consumable from the start but that's not the case here. I also understand why companies are adding loot boxes and don't necessarily despise them if handled right. I'm OK with them if they are balanced right and especially if they are a way to provide free DLC. I was fine with the system in both Mass Effect 3 and Halo 5 because even non-paying players benefitted. However gain that's not what's happening in Forza 7. Not only are we not getting free DLC but they changed how you earn credits to push this loot box system.
There is a right way to treat your users while while managing budget demands and there's a wrong way. They certainly went about this the wrong way.
I was thinking this. We have reached the point where we have to be grateful for launch DLC not being overly abusive.
Not really. I bought one DLC in my life (Storm Island for FH2), but never never virtual coins, car expansions, special whatever on any game. Just the standard version, and thats it. So no, im not part of this problem, and not helping to make it worse.
IF Turn 10 wants to monetize its product locking some things behind loot crates, cool for them, as far as game modes, tracks and most of cars are not unavaiable for those who decide not to pay for that.
Each company has different ways to make their business profitable: iRacing has a monthly fee, many AAA games cut huge areas to sell them by separate as DLCs, among many others.
What Turn 10 is doing here seems legit, and the value proposition of Forza 7 is unrivaled, specially if you compare it to game that includes a barebones SP mode, a tiny fraction of cars and tracks. And for the same price.
We'd basically need every other developer and MS/Sony/Valve/Blizzard/etc.. to all go out of business due to loot crates if it were going to end, LOL.
xrnzaaas
Member
Don't count on them doing any major changes to the loot box system. They may fiddle with the economy, but that's about everything I think they'll do.
fabricated backlash
Member
Yep. They just tried to push it again.
It doesn't. It's just a way for them to fix VIP access. Why only VIP access? Who can tell...
Fox Mulder
Member
It's not a hollow gesture for VIP. They'll get the same 2x bonus on credits they always get and it's not insignificant.
T10 fucked VIP up and pissed off players buying the more expensive versions of the game more than loot boxes did. They changed the VIP product language after the outrage and had to address this for people.
Loot crates aren't going anywhere, they'll at most tweak the economy a bit to rain more money. I imagine the loudest complainers aren't even playing the game though. I haven't felt the need to open a single one besides the handful I got for free with tier 11 Forza rewards. I've just progressed by racing and getting level reward cars as usual.
Yearsoflurking
Member
Most aaa games will need some sort of monetization system unless price tags are significantly increased. Loot crates are fine, what isn't fine is when they impact gameplay
Neuromancer
Member
Good job Turn 10. 👍
Complicated
Banned
This is good to see. Whatever happened with that store description it was a shitty situation that needed to be addressed.
Yes, but the changes made for Forza 5 ended up ruining the economy and basically made money/credits irrelevant in the game as you had way too much. I haven't tried the system in Forza 7 yet as I've been on an overseas business trip since launch day (Ultimate Edition launch that is), but hopefully this doesn't have the same impact.
From what I've read however, it seems the crate system was not the best way to use VIP so this might be for the better.
cyen
Member
Game still have the most content by far when comparing with the competition.
How much content do you get for $60 and never any DLC/VIP/Extras?
Genuine question as I have no idea.
cyen
Member
More than 700 cars and 30 tracks.
Fox Mulder
Member
People pay $20 for VIP. You always get exclusive cars and bonuses. They changed it this time with deceptive language and fucked people.
They're giving the usual 2x credit bonus back after all the outrage.
jobber
Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
Good job. Too bad I spent 24+ hours of installing/uninstalling the game 3 times over the weekend to get the VIP stuff to unlock. I still couldn't get some of the VIP exclusive cars to unlock last night, Kept telling me I needed to pay $19.99 and then it says I already own the DLC.
I call this the Two-Steps Back, One-Step Forward principle. Gouge your customers on multiple fronts, then fix one of them, now all is forgiven.
xrnzaaas
Member
Of course, all VIP's will get double winnings. But you should know that it's not available right now, they will introduce it with a patch.
BibiMaghoo
Member
I'm not even a fan of Forza but fuck me there are some cynical folk in this thread. People believe they wasted their own time and money, in addition to pissing off their customers for good PR when fixing it? Crazy talk. This is good because they changed something they didn't have to for the players benefit. They could have ignored you all and not given a single fuck as they took that cash. They didn't, and changed things at their expense. I applaud that effort even if it is not ideal.
I'm talking about the cars they sent and the 1 million lol.
People like me are willing to pay for it.
What's fucked is selling VIP as something and then changing it to something drastically worse.
That's solved now and I get the VIP what I expect.
D'ultimate
Member
Reading some of these responses I can see why developers don't like to interact with the communities and also why some stick to their guns at what others consider to be egregious things.
They can't win. Yes they shouldn't have changed the VIP rewards for the worse. But...they listened. They did what they said they were going to do and using feedback they made a change for what is mostly perceived for the best.
At least they did that though. Unlike many, many, many other developers. People can't just be like 'good on them for doing the right thing'. They have to be dicks and continue to rain down with the negativity.
It's as if being an internet asshole is its own loot crate reward and many of you can't wait for the opportunity to use it.
They can't win. Yes they shouldn't have changed the VIP rewards for the worse. But...they listened. They did what they said they were going to do and using feedback they made a change for what is mostly perceived for the best.
At least they did that though. Unlike many, many, many other developers. People can't just be like 'good on them for doing the right thing'. They have to be dicks and continue to rain down with the negativity.
It's as if being an internet asshole is its own loot crate reward and many of you can't wait for the opportunity to use it.
I'll never understand these conspiracy theories. They wouldn't have changed anything if there was no backlash.
Diablohead
Member
It's great that they have made VIP more like before with the perma 100% boost once it's patched in but the game itself has so many small changes that bother me and I doubt those will be addressed in the same way, still, it's better then them trying to tell us that 5 x 5 mod cards is worth $20 because it's not.
I honestly don't have a problem with MTs and lootboxes existing. I dont like them, but i understand business. Just don't take shit away from me to push me in a effort to push towards a gambling mechanic.
Don't put up slot machines to hinder the enjoyment of progressing. If there are going to be slots- they should be completely seperated from the ability to play the game as desired.
If you must have MTs, Let me purchase items outright with CR or $ at a respectable conversion rate.
Even with VIP being fixed. The collection tier system still effectively raises the cost of coveted cars, and the time it takes to unlock them. mods and cars obtained via lootcrates are the only way to circumvent these issues.
Don't put up slot machines to hinder the enjoyment of progressing. If there are going to be slots- they should be completely seperated from the ability to play the game as desired.
If you must have MTs, Let me purchase items outright with CR or $ at a respectable conversion rate.
Even with VIP being fixed. The collection tier system still effectively raises the cost of coveted cars, and the time it takes to unlock them. mods and cars obtained via lootcrates are the only way to circumvent these issues.
GHG
Member
If it performs poorly at launch they might well patch something in.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
good