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[Magnet_Man]

It's my favorite of the series.

The roster is unreal. The craziest and most awesome thing I've ever seen. Any cuts in a future Smash, yes even the dozen Fire Emblem characters, would be an absolute tragedy. The majority of the cast have unique systems, play styles, and tricks while at their core controlling similarly which makes picking up a new character natural and comfortable.

Balance is really solid, still a little fuzzy on some things like the hitboxes and frame data on a few characters but anything is better than Brawl's hit boxes / hemispheres. I watch these regional and national tournaments and it blows my mind the character variety that all play solid and viable.

Single player is trash sadly. Tour is garbage, Run is boring (would be better if added to Switch and gets online), Classic (Wii U) is anarchy with almost mandatory 6+ character fights but the Master Core fight is fun, and Special Orders wears out its welcome damn quick. Really hope for an Switch upgrade.

Music selection was also underwhelming. So many Brawl tracks added back in and a lot of great new songs are strangely absent like Skyward Sword's Moldarach fight or Kirby themes like Magolor fight or Moonstruck Blossom. Thankfully mods fix this. Also, no boss themes at all from Mega Man?? Shenanigans!

Really tired of all the gimmicks on stages. Just because For Glory was added doesn't mean you have a free ticket to make the stages as obnoxious as possible. Wily Castle still breaks my heart because it would be an ideal tournament stage if it wasn't for the Yellow Devil mucking things up. The oversize stages are terrible concept and even on my 50 inch TV it is so hard to keep track of players when they zoom out.

Online lag is frustrating but it will always be there as long as wireless internet stays as it is. No amount of upgraded hardware is going to change things as long as kids hop on the family internet while everyone is youtubing or chilling with Netflix.

My main request for Smash Switch is to prevent other users from seeing your custom name. They're annoying to see and while my 6 year old nephew adores Smash my sister won't let him play online because of the offensive names people use to trash talk or just be "hilarious" shits.

 

[Retromelon]

Places third in terms of rankings for the series, but I love it. It's a more refined version of Brawl, but removed a lot of what I absolutely adored about it.

So
Melee > Brawl > Smash 4 > 64

+ Cast is amazing. Got rid of Ice Climbers, LOTS of Fire Emblem love (we got Ike AND Lucina AND Robin AND Roy AHHHHH), awesome 3rd party gets, and so much quantity
+ Amiibos!!!
+ Omega Stages are wonderful
+ Multiple versions is awesome
+ No more tripping!
+ So much content!
+ Controller options are divine
+ Still the Smash game I know and love

- Still the Smash game I know and love. Not enough new and fresh.
- No meaningful singleplayer experience. This is the BIG killer for me
- Classic Mode in Smash Wii U is simply awful. Worst in the series
- Significantly less cool art style than Brawl. Brawl was dark and gritty, Smash 4 is too colorful and poppy
- Custom moves were a big let down and weren't embraced as much as I would like
- Stat boosts for customs were lame
- Made a fair amount of characters significantly less fun and interesting due to gutting mechanics of gliding, transformations, etc.
- No more edgehogging
- Still too many clones
- No Ridley (I don't even like Metroid, but still want Ridley)
- Still no Pichu

In this thread someone is really ranking brawl above smash 4 because it isnt dark and gritty enough, and no subspace emissary and edgehogging lmao

 

[Sami+]

Imported a japanese 3ds to get a slight advantage for practicing it in tournament, having played tournaments since melee I wanted to give the game a really good shot.

When it came out in japan, the game was in general alot more fun and had more "identity" then it has now.

I feel the "balance" changes took away alot of fun stuff for a ton of characters and made reliable stuff more like 50/50's, making the game feel alot less consistent, and also less technical.

The metagame right now seems to more and more favor the later DLC characters (since they had just 1 patch with nerfs), and since they arent really fun characters imo (limit charge camp, or learn bayos in and outs with just the combos) im starting to have less fun with this game then any of the others in the series.

Brawl you could lab stuff way better then this game and have alot of fun if you learned the kinda hard to get into at first neutralgame, and it had techniques like DACUS and cool/super strong but avoidable gimmicks that forced you to learn alot of your opponents options.

Ice climbers missing is a huge part for me, and quads would be the one thing that stands out as really cool, too bad it's a very underplayed format. I really want to play highlevel 4vs4, it's still kinda hard to know how to set up a optimal 4vs1 teamcombo! 1 thing I've learned though, is since keeping track of %, calling out a opponent who has high % to your teammates can help alot with efficiency!

Version 1.0 had hoo hah, Sheik's 50/50, Sonic with a PK Kid backthrow, and other goofiness. Can't say I agree at all tbh.

 

[LordKasual]

The thing I never understand about Rage complaints, in almost every instance, people dying from "Rage" hits were at kill % anyway. Rage didn't kill Sheik in that video, the combo did.

Rage complaints from a competitive standpoint confuse me. Rage is not purely a comeback mechanic; it can be utilized just as well by the person in the lead. Overall, it balances itself out.

I also don't understand people saying the game is slow. Matches, on average, take like 3 minutes each. It's not unusual for a set to go to game 3 and still finish under 10 minutes. You can point out characters like Mega Man and Sonic making games take longer, but then I can point out that characters like Captain Falcon or Zero Suit Samus make games shorter.

You don't understand why it's annoying to beat someone up only to have them kill/gimp you 10-20% earlier than would be possible because of rage? Depending on who youre fighting, no, you are most certainly not always at kill % when you get murdered from a rage attack.

The game is "slow" because of the way most matches go. Smash 4 starts off fast, but after you get that initial combo off, it very quickly just turns into one big boring fishing match in neutral.

Brawl had alot of stalling gimmicks about, but generally speaking, once you got hit, there was so much more to consider, and getting free from a bad situation wasn't as simple as just rolling to saftey. In fact at all points in the match, there was just so much more engagement from both players.

 

[Poltergust]

You don't understand why it's annoying to beat someone up only to have them kill/gimp you 10-20% earlier than would be possible because of rage? Depending on who youre fighting, no, you are most certainly not always at kill % when you get murdered from a rage attack.

The game is "slow" because of the way most matches go. Smash 4 starts off fast, but after you get that initial combo off, it very quickly just turns into one big boring fishing match in neutral.

Brawl had alot of stalling gimmicks about, but generally speaking, once you got hit, there was so much more to consider, and getting free from a bad situation wasn't as simple as just rolling to saftey. In fact at all points in the match, there was just so much more engagement from both players.

I'm not bothered by rage because I could take advantage of it just as easily. Really, it's not even that controversial of a mechanic in the competitive scene as people make it out to be. The only times people really call BS on that is when you get hit by a move like ZSS's up-B and the hits don't link into each other properly, meaning you can die off the top at super-early percentages.

As someone who played competitively in Brawl, what you described is not accurate at all. With airdodges being basically a free action in that game, the game is more of a "get hit once then reset to neutral" kind of game than Smash 4 would ever be. Rolls in Smash 4 are not even comparable to being able to airdodge into the ground with barely any landing lag.

The primary difference between Brawl and Smash 4 is that, in Smash 4, once a player gets put into a disadvantageous state, it is very hard to get back to neutral. It's not only about combos, but also positioning, frame traps, and the like. Brawl's emphasis on these aspects was overall rather minimal and therefore created a meta where games usually consisted of trading blows.

 

[Cipher Peon]

In this thread someone is really ranking brawl above smash 4 because it isnt dark and gritty enough, and no subspace emissary and edgehogging lmao

Yupp! And I'm definitely sticking by it. Edgehogging is a minor sadness, the other two though? Definite things I dislike about Smash 4.

 

[Vinc]

My first reaction is WHAT? IT'S BEEN TWO YEARS!?

Other than that, I'd say it was Ok. I enjoy it a lot, but Melee is still very much the best playing game in the series. I loved that game, and Brawl and Smash 4 both made me care less about the franchise. I still love it though, so I'd buy the next one. I'm just very disappointed that they downgraded the gameplay so much after Melee. That game was one of the greats.

 

[shoryukens]

Best roster out of any video game. Best Smash in my opinion.

 

[gigantor21]

Smash Run is the only reason I still have a 3DS.

Don't really give a shit about anything else, especially online play.

 

[Professor Beef]

Still like it, still play it. Work schedule prevents me from playing in tournaments, sadly.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Probably far and away the best of the series to me. Excellent roster, stunning production values. I guess the single player is lacking, but if you buy a Smash game for single player you're never going to enjoy it to the full anyways. And Subspace Emissary sucked colossal dick.

 

[Nightbird]

I still play it daily.

But i have to thank modding community for that. Vanilla Smash 4 is okay for when people come over

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Because I played the fucking game, did I not? For like 2 months.
I just got back into Tekken in July and learned how to play on a fighting stick from being a 10+ year pad player in 2 weeks time.

I played the game more than enough and am perfectly justified in my goddamn opinion.

The resistance to turning on a dime
Floaty air handling to varying degrees
The resistance to control of sliding
etc.

Other games walk this balancing act. The difference in this game?
The
Movement
Sucks

That has not changed since I last time I gave a damn about this game.



Smash 4 is a slow game. Do not bullshit me that it is fast. Its slower than other games in the series, its slower than other fighting games.

Time to kill when not edge guarding is way above Melee in general. It's really about 150% in the majority of footage I have watched, and the majority of time when I played a non-high damage high knockback character like Fox. It's so long you really do have to have to put yourself in danger (fighting the character movement) edge guarding just to fucking end the bastard you're fighting against.

To bring it home: Standard is 2 stocks vs Melee's 4. For good reason.


You must be joking about rolling and air dodges. Oh my god.

Air dodges can be baited in close quarters but do not tell me that if I go for a combo or try to chase the opponent down at higher percents that they won't hit that thing as much and as hard as they can and also fast fall out of my reach. The change from single use last resort that puts you in danger to use it as much as possible with no danger changes the fundamentals on how the whole thing worked entirely. Air doges are way more safe and damn near entirely screws up the entire combo potential in the game.

Rolling invincibility has too many active frames on top of that.

I bet my ass if that if I picked up my GC controller and put the game in I'd find out all this shit is still true.
Still doesn't change the main point of my OG post:
The game is not rewarding for serious play and actively punishes you should you choose to play offensively. A handful of DLC characters won't change the majority of the main cast handling badly and mostly the same since 2 years ago and compared to Melee.

This is all total bullshit. You want Melee. That's fine. But you are literally criticizing the game for not being Melee, and are too stubborn to look at the game any other way. And this never-ending lust for combos. I do not understand it. Fighting games are not about combos. They're merely a flashy representation of the advantage state. Even Guilty Gear, a game with a very flexible combo system, isn't particularly focused on them. Zato and Venom, two of the deepest characters in the series, have relatively little focus on combos. Smash 4's neutral and advantage are clearly not based around combos longer than 2-5 hits, yet people insist on acting like it's a flaw. And speed. Goddamn speed. A fighting game being fast doesn't make it better. All purely subjective bullshit constantly applied as a legitimate criticism by people against a game they don't even play.

 

[Daouzin]

This is all total bullshit. You want Melee. That's fine. But you are literally criticizing the game for not being Melee, and are too stubborn to look at the game any other way. And this never-ending lust for combos. I do not understand it. Fighting games are not about combos. They're merely a flashy representation of the advantage state. Even Guilty Gear, a game with a very flexible combo system, isn't particularly focused on them. Zato and Venom, two of the deepest characters in the series, have relatively little focus on combos. Smash 4's neutral and advantage are clearly not based around combos longer than 2-5 hits, yet people insist on acting like it's a flaw. And speed. Goddamn speed. A fighting game being fast doesn't make it better. All purely subjective bullshit constantly applied as a legitimate criticism by people against a game they don't even play.

I agree with your two main points.

Fighting games aren't about "Combos," and they aren't all about "Speed." FIghting games can be good without meeting a certain quota in either.

My issue with Smash 4, as someone that does prefer Melee, is the game's risk/reward system and the strength/weaknesses of certain characters in certain match ups. The game just doesn't seem "fair," to me in a satisfying way.

Fox in Melee does seem "fair," because I know how difficult he is to play. Although he is clearly the best character in the game.

Melee has a ridiculously good balance of risk/reward that seems just. Smash 4 has too many combos that are just too basic, in a technical sense, as in, what buttons are required to perform the combo, dealing too much damage for how easy the actions are to perform. Versus Melee that has movement options that allow an aggressing player a scenario to get in when they normally wouldn't be able to, or where a lesser player just couldn't because they don't have the technical know how.

I honestly think Melee was an incredible accident, but it's one that left a standard too difficult for most games to manage. This issue with Smash 4 also exists in Project Melee, but it's just less exaggerated in PM. Which is why I think PM is the actual perfect blend of competitive/casual that Smash will ever get.

Of course I still prefer Melee, but I think PM meets both sides in the middle, best.

 

[Lights and Waves]

Best Smash game, just wish it had adventure mode and character-specific break the targets.

 

[Choppasmith]

I still play it daily.

But i have to thank modding community for that. Vanilla Smash 4 is okay for when people come over

Are there any specific mods that make it worthwhile for you? Last I checked, it was mostly texture, model, and sound mods.

 

[Neoxon]

I still play it daily.

But i have to thank modding community for that. Vanilla Smash 4 is okay for when people come over

I'm gonna miss the mods if we do indeed get a Switch port of Smash 4.

 

[SaikyoBro]

There are things I like and dislike but when I step back and look at the whole package it's incredibly well-made. I can't think of a game that's got more meaningful content and multiplayer options, and most of the newcomers are brilliant. Characters like Villager and Little Mac make a ton of sense and were implemented perfectly, Duck Hunt and Pac-Man were genius "surprise" choices (even though most of us may have seen Pac-Man coming), and Ryu and Cloud still blow my mind every time I see them in action. As time's gone by I've realized that I don't really like 1v1 in Smash games anymore, but the gameplay works great for free-for-alls or team battles (that now support up to 8 players? I still don't even understand how that's possible). It feels like Brawl at first but a number of small improvements come together to make everything feel a lot more fluid and natural.

That said I think the 3DS version did ultimately hurt the Wii U version and that's a shame. It doesn't feel like a complete experience unless you have both of them, and even then you don't get access to any exclusive content by connecting them. I'm not even just talking about the stages, even super minor things like the exclusive trophies are weird (Baby Mario and Baby Peach are on the 3DS and Baby Luigi and Baby Daisy are on the Wii U... makes a whole lot of sense). And then there's the obvious stuff like the missing Ice Climbers or 3DS getting Smash Run while the console got Smash Tour, which I've never heard anyone say anything nice about. I understand that they're basically separate projects but they were worked on by the same team at the same time, you can't argue that more content and more polish wouldn't have gone to the Wii U version if they didn't have to worry about a handheld version at all.

All that said it's very rare that I play the game anymore. The community soured me on it a lot - I was part of a lot of different online communities and I went to a lot of tournaments, locals and otherwise, and I always felt like I was surrounded by a bunch of angry elitists with no social skills (and poor hygiene as well - every major fighting game tournament I've been to, the Smash room smells significantly worse than the rest of the venue). The fans put a really bad taste in my mouth and it drained my appreciation of the game in a matter of months. I still bust it out every now and then if I'm drinking with my roommates or whatever but I'm 100% burnt out on keeping up with the community or playing it competitively.

 

[leroidys]

Played the 3DS version today for the first time in a long while, and it reminded me of another issue I have with Smash 4. There's no definitive version, as the 3DS stages are 1000x better than the Wii U version, and the singleplayer content is a good 10x better.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Easily my favourite version regardless of how I'm playing it, whereas despite not being overly competitive stuff like Project M made me realise just how slow and clunky Brawl feels outside of a party atmosphere.

If I could make any critique besides obvious stuff like Snake/Wolf/Ice Climbers being gone:

Some stages still suffer from the Brawl mentality of having a million gimmicks that interfere with the fight. Fun for casual matches but a 'No Hazard' option so I can play Dr Wily's Castle with the olatforms but without Yellow Devil showing up would be great.

Weird focus when it came to old characters being brought up: I dig Pit and Bowser's changes even if they weren't all that demanded, but other characters in dire need of rehauls like Ganondorf or Sonic's two spindashes remained untouched as far as movesets went. Also some characters like Wario lost like, the one sorta reference he had to his own platformer series between Brawl and 4 for little reason.

Reuse of assets. I'm fine with them having to recycle some old stuff here and there, but most of the veteran cast just reusing their Brawl voices and victory tunes was bizarre. Especially odd given how regularly Nintendo gets Martinet out to do Mario for events yet couldn't get him back here? Similarly annoying DK/Diddy/Bowser still lack their in-series voices in favour of generic monster noises. Cases like Cloud's English VA union stuff or Falcon's VA being too busy are a bit more understandable.

No adventure mode. SSE has a million issues, but given how much better Smash Run on the 3DS plays with a similar setup it's a disappointment those enemies weren't reused for a Melee style adventure mode. I sincerely hope Smash Tour wasn't intended as a replacement, as it's fairly trash.

Tournies being online now is stupid.

Stage creator is still shit, just in a different way to Brawl's now.

Despite the lengthy post I'm still thrilled with the game. Unless you're an absolute purist I think this and Melee compliment each other fairly well.

 

[leroidys]

Played more last night... remembered more stuff I hated about this game. Broadly, the balance seems fine as there are lots of viable characters, but the specific things stratifying the characters really irritates me. That is, the higher tier characters have all the important tools, and the lower tier characters have none of them. I think this seems like an even bigger deal with Smash's reduced emphasis on fundamentals compared to some other fighting games, and it's percentage based system (which I love, don't get me wrong) as opposed to HP. Like, why the fuck do all the fastest, highest damage characters with great recoveries also have kill confirm hoo-hah bullshit, but the lower tier characters generally have nothing?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I liked it. It's my second most played Smash behind Melee.

I was really disappointed with the DLC though. I don't think I bought any of it.