Support NeoGAF

[copelandmaster]

- Its slowwwwww
- Time to kill sucks
- The the movement feel sucks. Dashing, slowing down, turning, jumping. It all sucks. Fucking the shit out of your hands and muscle memory with Bidou (which apparently isn't the hot thing anymore, because duh) is the only way to take back control. Every character feels like awful molasses.
- Insane recovery distances
- Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'
- Air dodging is a get out of jail free card
- Most of the moveset changes left over from M > B suck. A lot of characters are like Fox are Brawl 2.0. Some characters like Zelda are still shit and are doomed to remain shit under you know who's watch. No tlc at all.
-The changes revolving around the evolution of the character over the last 10 years i.e Yoshi M/B > Wii U and Bowser M/B > Wii U are really mediocre and don't fix major fundamental problems. A lot of these changes are this: give them moves with high damage+high knockback=Totes better character now u guise.
- A lot of the new characters are just ok. Can't speak about DLC chracters because I gave up on this game in less than two months.
-The online sucks. For fun sucks because of items and forced 4 way fights in exchange for stage variety. For glory sucks because the flat stages suck.
-The (on disc) stages suck. Stage hazards can't be turned off.
-The single player content is just ok. No adventure mode sucks.
-Targets sucks
-No AA
-the balance changes seemed all over the place. The last one I paid attention to, the bayo nerf, only seemed to primarily be in response to the fact that the rest of the cast's movesets couldn't keep up. Blast zone carry is a shitty thing that needed fixing, but they basically went back on bayo's main gimmicks of cancels and combos.
-combos in this game are either by the numbers minimalist guaranteed launchers or just not really possible. The open freestyle nature from times previous is seriously reduced because punishment is a no-no and everyone needs to feel like a winner.
-projectile camping
-Wheeee, we made a console without an Ethernet port! Amazing! Trendsetting as fuck.
-If you enjoyed the diverse multi utility of the Z button in Melee, too bad. Single purpose only here.

+Fanservice! Who cares 'bout compelling gameplay? Yeah!


Seriously awful. Pokken is aimed at the same audience and such a massively better game on its first entry.

Even if if its geared toward kids, the game is balanced around higher level play. The 1 or 2 patches so far improved the game across the board and buffed or neutered characters appropriately. Serious guys feel compelled by the gameplay and a desire to get good, kids can play with the pokemans and have fun. Kinda like... yknow... 64 and Melee :T

If you get caught in a combo, you have to eat it and pick yourself back up.
The movement feel, while basic, is not royally fucked.
Canceling can be performed by every character.
Supers that don't need to be turned off for pro play.
No stage gimmicks other than the size and wall shape.
Most characters have individual gameplay attributes (re:gimmicks) that are seamlessly integrated into their playstyle but are not absolutely broken. The exceptions being Mewtwo breaking the triangle and chandelure being a mistake.
Assists are varied and useful. There are a few too many that are situational, and people play the stronger favorites like crazy, but they don't break the game. Its a shame that a select few they are required for certain match ups just to get in (Machamp & Whimsicot vs spaaaaam).


Most importantly, Pokken (as well as other fighters) appropriately reward you for playing better (launchers, cancels, just frames, baiting/mindgames, parries, high combo variety). Smash Wii U puts the bosh on that by having piss for combos, get out of jail free cards like rolling and infinite air dodges, intentional stupid OP gimmicks (single character rage on top of rage [lucario], Cloud and little mack 1 hitters), and unintentional shit that is character exclusive without having a counter (Falcon's momentum sliding to the end of the stage when grabbing you). This is in addition to the majority of characters feeling feel bad to play, so why bother?

I don't feel the burning desire to improve and get better when I get duckin' bodied, unlike Pokken or Tekken. Not when there's so much bullshit and baggage. I just want to stop playing.

Its safe but unfair.
A wet blanket.
A Mario Kart Fighter.
Its fucking flaccid.

Its the second worse smash game, the worse fighting game on the Wii U, and one of the most unfulfilling and disappointing games I've ever played.

EDIT: God Damn it. I guess that's what happens when you type for like a fucking hour.

 

[Geminosity]

We no longer have lasing shield damage. Basically you can almost have your shield broken, run away and be at near 100%.

When I was maining Lucina (before Female Corrin came along) this was a huge bugbear of mine. I could land a charged shield-breaker powerful enough to make their shield almost non-existent but then if i didn't immediately follow up on it somehow then they'd get it all back very quickly, rendering it utterly pointless. Then again I've seen shield breakers perfect-shielded by accident more times than I can count by inexperienced players, so I often found myself wondering why I bothered with it if I thought it had a chance of being blocked

 

[mStudios]

The best smash so far.

 

[leroidys]

Ryu's Capcom, so he has as much of a chance to return as Mega Man. Cloud's honestly the only real concern.

This is pretty much true, but actually Capcom USA owns the Street Fighter IP, and Capcom Japan owns Mega Man.

 

[shouamabane]

It's my favorite Smash Bros. game. And I bought them all on launch day.

 

[Tan]

Didn't like how the jumping felt and disliked most of the stages so I lost interest fairly quickly.

Also has it really only been 2 years? It feels like it's so much older than that...

 

[Yukinari]

I hope that the Switch has a version of Smash 4 with all the content from both versions plus any cut content like Ice Climbers. That would alleviate some of my issues with the game.

 

[chaosblade]

* I'm glad it doesn't have wavedashing (in my opinion they should just fix dashing so it accomplishes what people wavedash to do, rather than relying on a bunch of button presses to bandaid what's wrong)

This is functionally impossible, dash and wavedash are entirely different things. Wavedashing allows you to do any standing action while moving in either direction. Even if you could perform standing actions during a dash (but not a run) it would still only work in a single direction, while working in both is one of the most important parts of wavedashing.

You could argue pivoting could make up for that, but that just makes it even harder.

 

[MagnesD3]

Still my least favorite Smash Sequel for the following reasons:

1. 90% of the newcomers aren't Nintendo All Stars/Iconic characters and I don't think they deserve to be in smash

2. The single player experience is incredibly mediocre and nothing of real value was added to it. (only subtracted like no adventure mode or subspace mode.)

3. The 3ds version took away development time and resources making certain features and just more content overall disappear.

4. Sakurai bias, he would rather choose characters he thinks are interesting than what his audience thinks would be interesting (and if he ever does listen its the japanese audience), and ultimately he would rather the game be balanced more as a party game than a fighting game. He ignores many popular characters.

5. The fighting engine and fighting styles of most characters overall feels like a slightly tweaked brawl, it doesn't feel very new and comes off as lazy.

6. Tons of reused music and stages makes it feel pretty lazy and not very fresh.

7. Unlocking characters is still boring an unfulfilling unlike melee. Kill yourself in like 100 matches and you have them all.

8. No ability to turn stage hazards off

9. No Battlefield Omega mode (which is consider a more even playing field type of stage than Final Destination, which any competitive smasher knows if the development team just took the time to look)

10. Franchise representation is extremely skewed

11. Too many characters used as marketing tools (Roy I forgave, Lucario and Ike were also forgivable but now its just ridiculous how many new characters are just marketing tools.)

12. Edge hogging removed and ability to kill opponents decreased exponentially, several advanced techniques have been removed, the game is still too slow, rolls are too safe, etc. (the game is still not developed properly as a fighting game thanks to Sakurai)

13.

Spoiler

WHERE THE FUCK IS WOLF!!!

14. Some characters are still mostly clones for arbitrary reasons

15. Pure clones exist

16. Online is still terrible, not enough options and does ranked terribly, also bad netcode.

17. Break the targets is lazy

18. The amount of Counters and Swordsmen is just ridiculous

Im sure there are more things that disappoint me about Smash 4 that Im not thinking of atm.



I would rather play 64, Melee, Brawl or PM than this game any day of the week.

 

[Weebos]

I like it. Brawl had more to do for me, since I mainly pay solo, but the characters and improvements make up for it. Plus it being on the 3DS is a huge plus, I play it more there than the Wii U.

Also six Fire Emblem characters is a dream come true. Still 5.5 sword wielders though.

 

[ishibear]

The best Smash game to date and that's including the lousy SP modes.

Amazing cast
Wonderful balance
Tons of fun

If the Switch port gives us improved Single Player modes and another SSE or campaign, Smash 4 will be the greatest game ever.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

I love it, but I wish there was more single player stuff. If Smash 4 hits Switch and remedies that to some extent, I'll be over the fucking moon.

 

[Codeblue]

My big problem with Smash 4 vs. Brawl is that Smash 4 was the more or less the death of obtaining and maintaining an advantage. Smash 4 added some hitstun but its combos are ultimately worthless for serving their purpose because Smash 4's mechanics are slanted entirely in favor of the losing player.



We no longer have special cancels. Feels extremely ugly for characters who used to have them, like Falco, Link, ect. Samus, ect.

We no longer have shield push, which means the aggressor is typically freely punished, even without perfect shield. This leads meta to favor those with really low landing lag and good recovery data. (Hi Sheik, hi Diddy, hi Mario)

We no longer have edgefalling, which means this new overbuffed shield can even be used on the edge of platforms without the defender losing any advantage.

We no longer have edgehogging, which is supplemented with a ridiculous ledge snap range. Recovery for majority of characters is basically free. Against MOST characters you are literally putting yourself in danger by attempting to edgeguard them.

We no longer have lasing shield damage. Basically you can almost have your shield broken, run away and be at near 100%.

Rolls are overbuffed just as much as shields are. Majority of characters can roll the distance of the stage as fast / faster than they can sprint. They are notoriously hard to punish now. Combined with the shield regen, the concept of shield pressure is essentially completely gone.

Shield pokes are almost nonexistent. In part due to shield regeneration, but im sure its just a change to the mechanic.

Rage mechanic gives a ridiculous buff to the player losing the match. Further trivializes holding an advantage.



I could keep going. But basically, pick a character (any character) that existed in both Smash 4 and Brawl. The Brawl incarnation has far more depth to their gameplan than they do in Smash 4. For all of Brawl's horrible shortcomings, it was just much better to master than Smash 4, which is basically one massive neutral game.

Agree with pretty much all this except the Rage thing. It favors the loser until someone loses a stock, then it favors the winner. It's not the pure comeback mechanic some make it out to be.

Edit: Also wavedashing is a really neat mechanic that isn't terrible hard to perform. L/Z-Cancelling sucks though.

 

[Speedwagon]

It's a great game. I think I'd like it better playing on a CRT, though.

 

[hughesta]

smash 4 is a legitimate contender for the greatest game ever made

 

[DecoReturns]

Does Corrin really count as a sword user? It only uses it swords in standard attacks, like other characters use their fist or legs. I think all its specials are something else.

I could be wrong, since Corrin is my least favorite DLC character so I don't bother using him/her.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

- A lot of the new characters are just ok. Can't speak about DLC chracters because I gave up on this game in less than two months.

If you don't play the game and haven't since it came out, why are you even posting? Especially because all this shit:

- Its slowwwwww
- Time to kill sucks
- Rollin' Rollin' Rollin' Rollin'
- Air dodging is a get out of jail free card

is thoroughly wrong, especially the part about air dodging, and yet gets posted ad nauseum in Smash 4 threads by people who don't even play the game.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Best Smash game, period.
Huge amount of perfectly balanced characters, many awesome stages (with the occasional stinker in it), many guest characters, awesome online mode.

I love it. I didn't put as many hours into it than I put into Melee (~300h in 4 vs. ~1000h in Melee), but it still deserves the top spot. It's just great.

 

[Geminosity]

This is functionally impossible, dash and wavedash are entirely different things. Wavedashing allows you to do any standing action while moving in either direction. Even if you could perform standing actions during a dash (but not a run) it would still only work in a single direction, while working in both is one of the most important parts of wavedashing.

You could argue pivoting could make up for that, but that just makes it even harder.

Hmm, I was somewhat spoiled in Soul Calibur because in that to do standing moves you just let go of your running direction for a fraction of a milisecond and they're all available to you immediately (though admittedly it had almost no momentum to running so you wouldn't get the wavedash 'slide' from it). Some adaptation of that would be a lot simpler for users in my eyes than requiring the jump->dodgeintoground 'fun' of wavedashing.

 

[JoeInky]

I haven't played it for a year, played a lot at first with shitty internet and then just gave up, by the time I'd moved out and got good internet again I had no interest in playing it anymore, it's just so boring in almost every way to me, I find it hard to even watch unlike melee and 64.

I respect the work Sakurai puts in, and the roster is the best in the series, but I don't think the game itself is very good and I usually think the reasoning he goes into for some of his game design decisions in interviews I read here and there are ridiculous at best.

Smash will probably be the biggest benefactor of combined nintendo eco systems, making Smash 4 on the 3DS and WiiU was such a waste of time (maybe not to them, because it made more money, but to me personally).

 

[Ghost is Bad]

actually if i really think about it, there's a lot of things that i really hate about the game compared to melee

1.) ledge game is nonexistent, which means that...

2.) edge-guarding is far too much risk compared to reward since everyone's recovery is so forgiving and air dodging has no real drawbacks outside of being read (this combined with the above essentially destroyed jigglypuff's viability in the game)

3.) all the good characters from this game essentially get to down-throw into some dumb guaranteed tilt or aerial to rack up damage (Diddy, Mario, ZSS, Shiek) which pretty much makes throw DI pointless

4.) considerably lower TTK, which makes things much less interesting to watch or play

5.) the extremely redundant characters (marth and lucina, forreal?)

6.) less single player content compared to brawl

 

[Hexagon!]

1. 90% of the newcomers aren't Nintendo All Stars/Iconic characters and I don't think they deserve to be in smash

13.

Spoiler

WHERE THE FUCK IS WOLF!!!

 

[CrispyBoar]

Best Smash game next to Melee.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

2.) edge-guarding is far too much risk compared to reward since everyone's recovery is so forgiving and air dodging has no real drawbacks outside of being read (this combined with the above essentially destroyed jigglypuff's viability in the game)

Airdodging has no real drawbacks other than getting hit by a smash attack or a meteor smash or KO'd in general but other than that...

3.) all the good characters from this game essentially get to down-throw into some dumb guaranteed tilt or aerial to rack up damage (Diddy, Mario, ZSS, Shiek) which pretty much makes throw DI pointless

No, it's really just those 4. Down throw followups are fairly common but they are nowhere near dominant at this point.

5.) the extremely redundant characters (marth and lucina, forreal?)

People keep bringing this up. It's only 3 characters on by far the largest (and most balanced, at that) roster yet.

 

[DecoReturns]

Just gonna say.

I love all the smash games.
Melee and Brawl being top 3 most played games ever.
64 giving me some great childhood memories.

The worst thing I can say about Smash 4 is that it makes me wish I was a kid again.

 

[MagnesD3]

Based on your picture its clear you dont 'get it' when it comes to characters who are Iconic/Important or not. Wolf is an Iconic character to his series. Fox and Wolf really should be the two star fox representatives, wolf is the leader of star wolf the rival group to star fox, falco is not as iconic or important he is simply a member of the star fox team, he simply happened to be top tier in melee and became popular for that as a result. I would not consider a character like Rosalina for example to be iconic or important to their said franchise.

 

[Yukinari]

If you don't play the game and haven't since it came out, why are you even posting? Especially because all this shit:



is thoroughly wrong, especially the part about air dodging, and yet gets posted ad nauseum in Smash 4 threads by people who don't even play the game.

While i agree that someone who quit the game in such a short time shouldnt be able to criticize what it currently is, a lot of people here brought up good points about the gameplay mechanics.

Time to kill is especially true.

 

[-Horizon-]

Lucina <3

 

[mistuhcahlos]

One of the best Nintendo games ever.
One of the best fighting games ever.
One of the best multiplayer games ever.

I loved it.

Truth! I've spent more money on this game than any other, and I don't regret it. I love it. My kids love it. It blows their mind how old these characters are and how great their games are.

 

[Geminosity]

Based on your picture its clear you dont 'get it' when it comes to characters who are Iconic/Important or not. Wolf is an Iconic character to his series. Fox and Wolf really should be the two star fox representatives, wolf is the leader of star wolf the rival group to star fox, falco is not as iconic or important he is simply a member of the star fox team, he simply happened to be top tier in melee and became popular for that as a result. I would not consider a character like Rosalina for example to be iconic or important to their said franchise.

If you don't consider Rosalina iconic to the mario galaxy series then I don't think you know what iconic means.

 

[MagnesD3]

If you don't consider Rosalina iconic to the mario galaxy series then I don't think you know what iconic means.

Maybe to the mario galaxy series but as for the entire mario series hell no, she is a blip that is only prevalent for like one game. Characters like Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, Bowser Jr. have actually consistency and overall are Iconic/Important to the franchise. Basically one off characters like her in a series that big probably dont deserve to be in smash. Background of a Stage sure, Assist trophy sure, but as a character its a waste. (But hey she can be used to market 3D World since that game came out conveniently around that time and she's a not so secret unlockable in that, wonder if that was a calculated marketing decision or not.)

 

[GhostOfSparta305]

4. Sakurai bias...he would rather the game be balanced more as a party game than a fighting game.

(the game is still not developed properly as a fighting game thanks to Sakurai)

Maybe Smash isn't made to be like the many "proper" fighting games we already have?

 

[Geminosity]

Maybe to the mario galaxy series but as for the entire mario series hell no, she is blip that is only prevalent for like one game. Characters like Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, have actually consistency and overall are Iconic/Important to the franchise.

2 games. There's 2 mario galaxy games. Their 'blip' also sold more than starfox's recent blip did
She's now also basically a regular participant in all of the mario sports and party games.

You didn't get the character you wanted, and that sucks. But don't take it out on Rosalina. She's easily one of Nintendo's more popular and now regular 'mario' characters whether you like her or not.

 

[Choppasmith]

2 games. There's 2 mario galaxy games. Their 'blip' also sold more than starfox's recent blip did
She's now also basically a regular participant in all of the mario sports and party games.

You didn't get the character you wanted, and that sucks. But don't take it out on Rosalina. She's easily one of Nintendo's more popular 'mario' characters whether you like her or not.

She brings a lot more to the gameplay table than Wolf ever did too.

 

[Crayolan]

If you don't consider Rosalina iconic to the mario galaxy series then I don't think you know what iconic means.

I think most people think of Rosalina from the Mario series, not the Mario Galaxy series in specific. In terms of important Mario characters she's like C-tier.

 

[Captain Europe]

Maybe to the mario galaxy series but as for the entire mario series hell no, she is a blip that is only prevalent for like one game. Characters like Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach, have actually consistency and overall are Iconic/Important to the franchise. Basically one off characters like her in a series that big probably dont deserve to be in smash. Background of a Stage sure, Assist trophy sure, but as a character its a waste. (But hey she can be used to market 3D World since that game came out conveniently around that time and she's a not so secret unlockable in that, wonder if that was a calculated marketing decision or not.)

She's pretty much part of the main Mario cast now, she's been in 3 mainline Mario games, one of them as a playable character. And the only Mario character to have a backstory really. She's the only character after Yoshi to come that close.

 

[DecoReturns]

I find it funny, but I think Lucina is more famous then Wolf right now.

Honestly I perfer Falco and Fox as the two chosen. My dream pick would be Peppy because I love that guy.

 

[Kyne]

best smash in the series, by far.

n64 was the ingredients.

melee was too hot.

brawl was too cold.

smash wii u is just right.

 

[Dante_727]

Still playing it like a mad man. Love it

 

[kirby_fox]

Best gameplay in the series so far. While it could be tweaked here and there, and some characters could be better, mechanics wise I think they nailed it pretty good. I've always felt that Melee was a more ground game, Brawl was a more air game, and Smash 4 blends them well into both.

It's also got an insane cast, even if I was disappointed in the end by how some of them started playing and the loss of Pokemon Trainer and Ice Climbers. I used to be able to go through a lot of my favorites when I played Smash with people, but I find myself unable to play everyone I want to because of that.

But despite all of this, I think it had the weakest single player, is on the bottom of stage selection even with Omegas, somehow made the stage creator worse, had one of the worst UIs, and was too focused on amiibo marketing even though I love my amiibo collection.

 

[LordKasual]

Agree with pretty much all this except the Rage thing. It favors the loser until someone loses a stock, then it favors the winner. It's not the pure comeback mechanic some make it out to be.

Edit: Also wavedashing is a really neat mechanic that isn't terrible hard to perform. L/Z-Cancelling sucks though.

It's still way more beneficial to the loser because it's essentially adding damage to the person who's beating you. It may add damage to the losers bar after the person who comes back takes a stock...but going from 0% to 25% from isn't as significant as going from %70 to 95%.

 

[MagnesD3]

2 games. There's 2 mario galaxy games. Their 'blip' also sold more than starfox's recent blip did
She's now also basically a regular participant in all of the mario sports and party games.

You didn't get the character you wanted, and that sucks. But don't take it out on Rosalina. She's easily one of Nintendo's more popular 'mario' characters whether you like her or not.

Oh you mean how she appeared at the end of Galaxy 2 after you beat the last level for like a second and count that as being important?. Also you know who else appears in the sport/party games regularly characters like Daisy and Waluigi who are nothing characters.

And duh mario is always gonna out sell starfox, and other loved nintendo franchises, doesnt mean that each franchise shouldnt have fair representation. Also star fox zero was a train wreck (like the last several star fox games), so its probably not going to sell well due to nintendo's incompetency.

Also Im not taking it out on Rosalina, she was merely an example of how I feel about many of the newcomers, Wolf has nothing to do how I feel on that matter. If you like Rosalina thats great she looks way cooler than peach imo but when it comes to giving her Iconic status to her said franchise Im just telling it how it is.

Maybe Smash isn't made to be like the many "proper" fighting games we already have?

I know its crazy but a good developer can make great fighting game for fighting game players and for people who just want to have a good time. I see no reason to not make it great for both parties.

I find it funny, but I think Lucina is more famous then Wolf right now.

Whats sad is that she is probably more well known of a character simply due to how pitiful of a job Nintendo has done with the Star fox franchise. The Star fox series literally was right under Metroid in being Iconic after Star Fox 64 but boy did Nintendo screw up that rise to fame. Also Lucina really appeals to the anime crowd as well as fire emblem after the change in artstyle, thats always gonna bring in a ton of people excited about "waifu's" and all that jazz...

 

[Geminosity]

Oh you mean how she appeared at the end of Galaxy 2 after you beat the last level for like a second and count that as being important?. Also you know who else appears in the sport/party games regularly characters like Daisy and Waluigi who are nothing characters.

And duh mario is always gonna out sell starfox, and other loved nintendo franchises, doesnt mean that each franchise shouldnt have fair representation. Also star fox zero was a train wreck (like the last several star fox games), so its probably not going to sell well due to nintendo's incompetency.

Also Im not taking it out on Rosalina, she was merely an example of how I feel about many of the newcomers, Wolf has nothing to do how I feel on that matter. If you like Rosalina thats great she looks way cooler than peach imo but when it comes to giving her Iconic status to her said franchise Im just telling it how it is.

Well, if we're just going by how everyone feels, i didn't even notice wolf wasn't in because I don't care about him and never have. So it's a-ok. Problem solved

edit: ok, so that wasn't exactly a constructive post by me. Let's see if I can actually add something here.
Rosa is iconic of the mario galaxy series and apparently 'iconic' enough to translate from the main series to most of the spin-offs and even appear as a playable character in another mainline mario game outside of her separate line.
Meanwhile Starfox is kind of a dead series, especially thanks to their recent planecrash in the form of Starfox Zero so I'm not sure why you think Sakurai would deem it as 'fair' to give it more reps than the 2 it already has. Why not add another f-zero series character then? I mean that's dead too but it's only got 1 character and it could easily have a second for no real reason other than arbitrary fairness, whatever that means :/
Heck, stick Ashley in as a warioware rep. Warioware series has a decent number of games and more rep for it wouldn't hurt.

 

[Captain Europe]

Oh you mean how she appeared at the end of Galaxy 2 after you beat the last level for like a second and count that as being important?. Also you know who else appears in the sport/party games regularly characters like Daisy and Waluigi who are nothing characters.

And duh mario is always gonna out sell starfox, and other loved nintendo franchises, doesnt mean that each franchise shouldnt have fair representation. Also star fox zero was a train wreck (like the last several star fox games), so its probably not going to sell well due to nintendo's incompetency.

Also Im not taking it out on Rosalina, she was merely an example of how I feel about many of the newcomers, Wolf has nothing to do how I feel on that matter. If you like Rosalina thats great she looks way cooler than peach imo but when it comes to giving her Iconic status to her said franchise Im just telling it how it is.

The reason they only appear in the party/sport games is because they are nothing characters. Rosalina actually appears in mainline games.

 

[Timeaisis]

It's great. My only complaint is that it did not come out 10 years ago when I was in high school. Cherish it, you lucky bastards.

 

[SuperBlank]

It's my favourite so far. Quite the roster. A bit too many FE characters, but you don't have to download them all anyway.

I'd like some more relatively neutral stages, or a stage hazard toggle, but the omega mode is a nice compromise.

If more characters get added with the Switch port (which seems likely) that's just insane.

 

[MagnesD3]

The reason they only appear in the party/sport games is because they are nothing characters. Rosalina actually appears in mainline games.

Rosalina has really only mattered in Galaxy 1, in 2 she was an easter egg and in 3d world she's an extra character (seems like they are trying to push her as a likeable character marketing wise tbh.). So I guess she is pseudo relevant in the most recent 3d games maybe but when looking at the entire Mario Bros. series she is nothing but a blip.

 

[Slixshot]

It's the best smash!

 

[copelandmaster]

If you don't play the game and haven't since it came out, why are you even posting?

Because I played the fucking game, did I not? For like 2 months.
I just got back into Tekken in July and learned how to play on a fighting stick from being a 10+ year pad player in 2 weeks time.

I played the game more than enough and am perfectly justified in my goddamn opinion.



The same fundamental problems, namely the ones outlined in LordKasuals posts, are exactly the same as launch. Just because I haven't played the game doesn't mean I haven't seen it being played.

I wouldn't rag on people that dropped any other fighting game one month in because they had problems with the gameplay.

Smash Wii U has not had substantial changes like these-
Super and Ultra had huge changes to mechanics, added mechanics, balanced characters and added new moves for characters.
Tekken 7 FR has huge changes from 7.0 by adding rage drives in in the stock FR release, fixing general character movement in the stock FR release, adding universal backdash changes in version D, and new character moves and balance changes in each patch.


Smash Wii U added new characters and stages and balance patches.

No new system mechanics, no new moves, just alterations on how moves work. While movement most likely has been altered on a per character basis, who wants to bet that overall the fundamental core of the game: "the characters are their own game mechanics/gimmicks." is still the same? Hell, they turned it up to 11 with DLC characters like Cloud and Bayo. And that movement (Dashing, slowing down, turning, jumping) in this game is overall still mostly the same? New characters won't solve the fundamental problem of their movement being designed under the very similar banner for balance:

The resistance to turning on a dime
Floaty air handling to varying degrees
The resistance to control of sliding
etc.

Other games walk this balancing act. The difference in this game?
The
Movement
Sucks

That has not changed since I last time I gave a damn about this game.

Especially because all this shit:

is thoroughly wrong, especially the part about air dodging, and yet gets posted ad nauseum in Smash 4 threads by people who don't even play the game.

Smash 4 is a slow game. Do not bullshit me that it is fast. Its slower than other games in the series, its slower than other fighting games.

Time to kill when not edge guarding is way above Melee in general. It's really about 150% in the majority of footage I have watched, and the majority of time when I played a non-high damage high knockback character like Fox. It's so long you really do have to have to put yourself in danger (fighting the character movement) edge guarding just to fucking end the bastard you're fighting against.

To bring it home: Standard is 2 stocks vs Melee's 4. For good reason.


You must be joking about rolling and air dodges. Oh my god.

Air dodges can be baited in close quarters but do not tell me that if I go for a combo or try to chase the opponent down at higher percents that they won't hit that thing as much and as hard as they can and also fast fall out of my reach. The change from single use last resort that puts you in danger to use it as much as possible with no danger changes the fundamentals on how the whole thing worked entirely. Air doges are way more safe and damn near entirely screws up the entire combo potential in the game.

Rolling

Rolls are overbuffed just as much as shields are. Majority of characters can roll the distance of the stage as fast / faster than they can sprint. They are notoriously hard to punish now. Combined with the shield regen, the concept of shield pressure is essentially completely gone.

12. Edge hogging removed and ability to kill opponents decreased exponentially, several advanced techniques have been removed, the game is still too slow, rolls are too safe, etc. (the game is still not developed properly as a fighting game thanks to Sakurai)

Rolling invincibility has too many active frames on top of that.



I bet my ass if that if I picked up my GC controller and put the game in I'd find out all this shit is still true.


Still doesn't change the main point of my OG post:
The game is not rewarding for serious play and actively punishes you should you choose to play offensively. A handful of DLC characters won't change the majority of the main cast handling badly and mostly the same since 2 years ago and compared to Melee.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I definitely think Smash 4 is one of best game in the franchise, along with Melee for many different reasons. I really enjoy both games but I always found myself playing Smash 4 more often because of friends' preferences.

I admits that single player contents is pretty bad in Smash 4. Once I'm done with single player then I'm pretty much moved on with single player, and focused on multiplayer exclusively ever since I 100% the game. Awhile, Melee, I still played some single player contents once in awhile, like Break the Target and Adventure Mode.

The roster is freaking amazing. It had many dream characters that I wanted to see in Smash Bros, like Duck Hunt, Little Mac, Cloud, Mega Man, Pac Man, etc.

I still hope that we would get 58 characters coming back for next iteration, along with few veterans being back and handful of newcomers getting in; such as Ice Climbers, Inkling, Rhythm Heaven, Owl 3, etc, etc.

Best cast in a game ever. No idea how they will even top it.

They could easily top the roster in Smash4, by adding several more characters if Smash Switch is essentially enhanced port of Smash 4.

I hope that the Switch has a version of Smash 4 with all the content from both versions plus any cut content like Ice Climbers. That would alleviate some of my issues with the game.

Don't forget other characters too!